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That's not a bad point. It seems pretty redundant to use both.
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Maybe it's just me, but I'd kind of like it if wands were akin to low level staves. Perhaps they wouldn't require spell slots, but instead resonance to recharge. They come with a set level of charges, but instead of running out at the end of those charges, you need to imbue it with resonance. And if you cast from it, you can forgo spending a charge with spending a certain amount of resonance, based on spell level.
In this case, you don't need to track the charges as much. Just resonance. And you only begin to track charges when you stop pouring resonance into it, or when you refill it's charge pool with your own resonance.
Maybe rather than charges per se it's uses per day? You still use resonance to activate, but can only do so a given number of times each day? To prevent stuff like a character using a wand of fireball 20 times a day every day, if that is considered a problem.
It does if you never use items that seem so cruddy when there are 'more interesting' magical items you can pick up instead of the big six.
I don't understand what this means or at least what it has to do with anything. Can you clarify?
Maybe rather than charges per se it's uses per day? You still use resonance to activate, but can only do so a given number of times each day? To prevent stuff like a character using a wand of fireball 20 times a day every day, if that is considered a problem.That still doesn't address the problem of having a dozen items with charges to keep track of each day, though.
I don't dig charges either and I thought resonance was supposed to replace that, I'm just guessing wildly. I would think that if the goal was to prevent spamming any single item, a better solution would be that every activation in a day after the first would cost +1 resonance.
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It does if you never use items that seem so cruddy when there are 'more interesting' magical items you can pick up instead of the big six.I don't understand what this means or at least what it has to do with anything. Can you clarify?
One of the big things Paizo's doing is reducing how many magic items an adventurer can use in a given day by using the Resonance rule. If you need Resonance to use every item, then there will be items that are clearly worth the Resonance and items that are clearly... not.
If it turns out Resonance is one of the "extreme options" they've talked about and there is enough support against it we may get something much more(in my opinion) palpable that doesn't alter the setting in a big way.
I see resonance more like a quota to define how many magical things you can use.
So maybe it's as simple as each day you attune x resonance to it and if you do you get a number of uses out of it per day? That seems pretty straightforward to me and leaves design space for how many charges and how much resonance per day.
Although I may have interpreted the mechanics wrong...
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I noticed this too, but I thought it was because it's a Pathfinder 1 adventure being adapted on the fly.
I hope you're right about this. Having wands run purely on Resonance would be really neat, IMO. Having a wand that never runs out would make getting a wand really special, and not just essentially a bulk discount on purchasing potions.
Also, I imagine wands would use the caster's Resonance rather than the person healed, which means potions still have utility if the casters Resonance pool is low.
Well we already know from one dev that you make potions in batches anyway. I just hope they don't run off Resonance too otherwise all consumables are pretty... bad.
Potions, as last we heard, take resonance to consume. Same with scrolls and other single-use items.
Ah, looks like they solved that little issue, then. Wands need to at least be limited per day. Otherwise, instead of getting a better wand, I hire more peasants as resonance batteries.
Five seems awfully low, though.
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Potions, as last we heard, take resonance to consume. Same with scrolls and other single-use items.Well we already know from one dev that you make potions in batches anyway. I just hope they don't run off Resonance too otherwise all consumables are pretty... bad.
Absolutely awful.
Notably that is magic potions. Alchemical elixirs (I believe) don't need Resonance.Absolutely awful.Potions, as last we heard, take resonance to consume. Same with scrolls and other single-use items.Well we already know from one dev that you make potions in batches anyway. I just hope they don't run off Resonance too otherwise all consumables are pretty... bad.
Nah, those usually need it too. Alchemists just don’t have to spend it on ones they made themselves with their daily prep.
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I think what they are trying to do is to create an exchange between resonance and weak spells which are not worth resonance on a 1:1 basis. So you invest one resonance in your magic missile wand and get 5 shots from it before you need to invest more resonance in it.
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Absolutely awful.Potions, as last we heard, take resonance to consume. Same with scrolls and other single-use items.Well we already know from one dev that you make potions in batches anyway. I just hope they don't run off Resonance too otherwise all consumables are pretty... bad.
It stops the "handy haversack of spells" thing that happened with high level casters and it allows more versatility in high level encounters.
Previously, if an encounter didn't kill you in PF1, you would just wave around a wand of cure light wounds for a few minutes and everyone would be okay. This means that GMs need to make every encounter potentially lethal just to challenge their groups.
It also made it easier to put the players on the rails, and made it easier to stay on the rails as a player. The more limited my resources, the more I look to bypass the adventure and its challenges. I've collapsed and/or flooded a lot less dungeons since the CLW wand became a staple of play. It also removes a lot of the time limits for the game so things can run at a good pace for the narrative. The smaller our pool of resources, the shorter the adventuring day, the more passes at that long hallway of traps. Putting a time limit on things has limited narrative use, and can only be done so many times before the players tire of it.
"If you rest, the princess will die!"
"Sounds like a problem for you and your princess."
IIRC, they can create some at a more resonance-effective exchange rate in the morning, during their adventure prep time. Or they can produce some on the fly at a less advantageous exchange rate.
Both of these were separate from out-right crafting alchemical items during downtime.
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Nah, those usually need it too. Alchemists just don’t have to spend it on ones they made themselves with their daily prep.Notably that is magic potions. Alchemical elixirs (I believe) don't need Resonance.Absolutely awful.Potions, as last we heard, take resonance to consume. Same with scrolls and other single-use items.Well we already know from one dev that you make potions in batches anyway. I just hope they don't run off Resonance too otherwise all consumables are pretty... bad.
This is not necessarily true. We actually don't know whether normal Alchemical Elixirs created with gold during downtime cost Resonance to use. The temporary ones the Alchemist makes every day require Resonance, but they also require Resonance to create and are very much a special case.
But yes, the appearance of charges bothered me and I hope to see some developer comments on the intent (and whether that was a mistake in the demo/conversion), etc.
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I presume it's intended to solve the scroll/wand golf bag.
I presume it's intended to solve the scroll/wand golf bag.
It's not much of a solution. If players can still carry around a bunch of consumables, all this does is make consumables limited per day, and as a player, I rarely use consumables due to consumer's remorse as it is (AKA fear of using something at the wrong point in time; I have it bad enough with charge per day items and abilities).
Even so, characters being prepared for adventure should be something that's rewarding to the player, and not turn it into a guessing game of whether you should use X consumable at Y time instead of Z consumable because of resonance issues.
P.S., since this is mostly a wand issue, I don't see why they can't solve it within the wand rules.
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It's not intended to prevent consumable use, it's intended to make you buy level appropriate consumables (rather than as many Wands of CLW as possible/necessary), since a Wand of Heal (4th level) heals you 7d8+X vs. the 1d8+X from a Wand of Heal (1st level) both for the same Resonance cost.
I'm also still unclear if Wands even have charges or how those charges work, given that it's a legacy adventure converted on the fly.
Yeah, it's also unknown how wands will work in general, especially with spells that have multiple cast times with different effects; are all of them valid uses for a wand, or do wands only allow one form of casting of a given spell?
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It's not intended to prevent consumable use, it's intended to make you buy level appropriate consumables (rather than as many Wands of CLW as possible/necessary), since a Wand of Heal (4th level) heals you 7d8+X vs. the 1d8+X from a Wand of Heal (1st level) both for the same Resonance cost.
I'm also still unclear if Wands even have charges or how those charges work, given that it's a legacy adventure converted on the fly.
This won't be an issue if high level items not suffered for diminished return related to cost, item prices calculation in PF1 almost always involve some value squared, this caused that prices increased quadratically while item effectiveness remained linear at best.
Frankly using resonance in order to force players to use level appropriate consumables seems shoe horned to me and not very good design, players should want to use level appropriate items because they are actually better.
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It's not intended to prevent consumable use, it's intended to make you buy level appropriate consumables (rather than as many Wands of CLW as possible/necessary), since a Wand of Heal (4th level) heals you 7d8+X vs. the 1d8+X from a Wand of Heal (1st level) both for the same Resonance cost.
IF the Resonance costs is the same. I'm not sure it will even be a slightly scaling cost. Paizo doesn't seem too interested in consumables right now since they are now competing with permanent magic items.
Best case scenario I foresee is a Level + 2 cost for anything besides a Level 1 wand or potion.. Maybe +1.
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I mean, it doesn't really make sense that Wands of "Cure Serious Wounds" would exist in PF1, since they are dramatically more expensive to make and there wouldn't be any demand for them since the 11,250g wand does a worse job than three 750g wands.
Occasionally you find them in loot piles, but they must have been made by madmen or people who can't do math.
If we want higher level consumables to exist, there has to be a reason that a rational actor would want one.
It stops the "handy haversack of spells" thing that happened with high level casters and it allows more versatility in high level encounters.Previously, if an encounter didn't kill you in PF1, you would just wave around a wand of cure light wounds for a few minutes and everyone would be okay. This means that GMs need to make every encounter potentially lethal just to challenge their groups.
Now, if an encounter doesn't kill you, you take a rest in order to get your hitpoints and resonance back.
The CLW wand extends the adventuring day, rather than shortens it. I don't see the culture changing such that PCs will be charging into combat at 30% HP anytime soon.
Yep, without cheap available healing I foresee GMs bemoaning their players heading back to camp every two encounters and resting up for 3 days to fully heal. I'd be mighty aggrieved if I was pressured into going into a fight at 30% health and died.
And I don't consider giving every class access to class based healing a solution - that just expands the cleric problem to all the classes ("but I have all these cool spells, but I only ever cast cure spells - boring!"). Most people will want to use your class feats on cool class based stuff not healing.
Well, resonance could presumably replace all instances of daily uses while some things have limited uses globally. Just getting rid of daily stuff is still good in my book.
That said, I have generally not liked expensive consumables like Wanda for game-balance reasons: a player that blew all his money on consumables can end up pretty far behind in gear power later on unless the GM steps in to fix the situation (and thus essentially reward the infrugal behavior).
I was kind of hoping that consumables would be relegated more to just cheaper potions and scrolls. That said, I kind of get the decision.
I was actually worried about a situation where wizards would oddly never ready their most useful low level spells because they would just have wands of it instead.
And I don't consider giving every class access to class based healing a solution - that just expands the cleric problem to all the classes ("but I have all these cool spells, but I only ever cast cure spells - boring!"). Most people will want to use your class feats on cool class based stuff not healing.
They aren't giving all the classes class-based healing.
And I don't consider giving every class access to class based healing a solution - that just expands the cleric problem to all the classes ("but I have all these cool spells, but I only ever cast cure spells - boring!"). Most people will want to use your class feats on cool class based stuff not healing.They aren't giving all the classes class-based healing.
Maybe not, I could be a little premature there, but there are hints that they are opening up healing options to classes outside the traditional 'healer' classes.
as I see it, some of most efficient healing will now be higher level healing options that heal to 100%.
but if somebody is only 20% down they may choose to not use that if they think they can handle next fight.
and the same resources (resonance, spell points, slots) which could be used for healing could be used for offensive/defensive combat ability
which could be just as determinant of winning combat as being healed up to 100%, again re-inforcing the more flexible choice.
vs. CLW-spam, which leaves most-granular healing as most efficient, and has little 'competition' for same resources with alternatives.
(CLW is very $-efficient, and only current wand cost is deducted from WBL, so fact you constantly consume many wands is irrelevant re: WBL)
Maybe not, I could be a little premature there, but there are hints that they are opening up healing options to classes outside the traditional 'healer' classes.And I don't consider giving every class access to class based healing a solution - that just expands the cleric problem to all the classes ("but I have all these cool spells, but I only ever cast cure spells - boring!"). Most people will want to use your class feats on cool class based stuff not healing.They aren't giving all the classes class-based healing.
Most of those hints, at least that I've seen, revolve around skill feats, not class feats. Sure, you could say that being put in a healer role, as opposed to choosing a different skill feat, has a microcosm of the same problem, but I'd argue that the same could be said for the rogue being expected to be the Disable Device person. Granted Rogues get more skills than other classes, but still, what this means, is now anyone can choose to be the healer, and they don't have to devote themselves to the role to be effective.
Yeah, we have been assured a barbarian with the right Medicine feats can play a viable healer. Of course, I'm not clear on what the limitations of this are-- one assumes Resonance doesn't play into stitching up wounds the old fashioned way.
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Yeah, we have been assured a barbarian with the right Medicine feats can play a viable healer. Of course, I'm not clear on what the limitations of this are-- one assumes Resonance doesn't play into stitching up wounds the old fashioned way.
Since this likely refers to my assertions about the barbarian in my group who is their primary healer, I will attest that while it has certainly been assumed, I have never said precisely that statement. Not going to deny that she has Battle Medic, but that's not all.
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IF the Resonance costs is the same. I'm not sure it will even be a slightly scaling cost. Paizo doesn't seem too interested in consumables right now since they are now competing with permanent magic items.
Uh...they've explicitly said higher level items still only cost the same Resonance per use. At least for things like Wands.
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IF the Resonance costs is the same. I'm not sure it will even be a slightly scaling cost. Paizo doesn't seem too interested in consumables right now since they are now competing with permanent magic items.Uh...they've explicitly said higher level items still only cost the same Resonance per use. At least for things like Wands.
Well then that's better than I expected. Good on them.