It seems really cool and I think it would be neat to run in awhile. But first I'd like to know if its any good.
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In my opinion it's shaping up to be brilliant - I've only read the first two installments obviously, but if it continues at the current standard it will push Curse of the Crimson Throne from it's longstanding place as my favorite AP.
Having said that, I think of it as almost an "advanced" AP in terms of difficulty to DM. By nature, political situations require more nuance, flexibility and all-around skill to run, in my opinion. I wouldn't recommend this to a new DM. (My biggest fear in running this is that I'm not going to be good enough to truly do it justice).
I think player style is going to be a big factor too in how well the AP runs. If your players aren't into working through a story but more enjoy a series of tactical encounters of ever-building difficulty then I suspect this will not suit them.
Thanks for the response! I'm running Ironfang invasion and really liking it. This is somthing I'm thinking about running after I'm done. I might get book 1 to see how it is.
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Steve summed it up pretty well I think. This AP so far is looking to truly be a full on intrigue campaign. It's a very unique thing for Pathfinder and it's great for players who like roleplay and lore, but it won't necessarily be as appealing for players that prefer the numbers and combat sides of PF or GMs that don't want to do a lot of prep work.
I will add that if you're running Ironfang and aren't fully certain whether you want to run an intrigue campaign or not, I'd recommend checking out Hell's Rebels as a sort of in-between. HR and Ironfang are very similar in a lot of ways (the rebellion system will immediately be familiar if you used the militia system, for one), and book 3 of Hell's Rebels (Dance of the Damned) is an intrigue book that definitely gives you a good taste of how Pathfinder intrigue plays. In fact, parts of WftC feel so similar to Dance of the Damned in some places that I can't help but feel that the latter was Paizo testing the waters for the former. I'd definitely recommend it as a good way of knowing if intrigue is right for you (and your players, of course).
If you find yourself confident that you're up for the task and think your players are down for it though, I'd say WftC definitely is looking to be a fantastic campaign, so by all means give it a look!
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In fact, parts of WftC feel so similar to Dance of the Damned in some places that I can't help but feel that the latter was Paizo testing the waters for the former. I'd definitely recommend it as a good way of knowing if intrigue is right for you (and your players, of course).
That’s a great advertisement. Dance of the Damned is probably my favorite book of any AP.
I really need to get this!
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I'm the GM, and I'm loving it. Every page of prep time I go through is as entertaining as say, reading Game of Thrones for the first time to me. My players are liking it as well, but probably not as much as I am. :)
PS: I'm biased though... I'm a Taldor fan-nerd.
Where are you up to? I'm a little intimidated by the thought of running book two. It looks like quite a daunting prospect to do it justice.
Third game's tomorrow, and they're just in the Senatorial panic room after the... Grand Prince's speech. :)
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Books 1 & 2 had me SO EXCITED to start running this module (which I’m doing in 2 weeks). Book 3, though, is very eh.
All in all, I was hugely disappointed with book 3, though this may be a contrast effect because the first two books were so good.
That’s disappointing to hear. Like you, I loooooved the first two. :(
That’s disappointing to hear. Like you, I loooooved the first two. :(Hopefully it’s just me and you will love the 3rd one!
Sorry to say I kinda share that opinion. I didn't outright hate it, but I will admit the complete shift from social intrigue to investigative intrigue and the lack of diplomatic solutions did disappoint me somewhat, especially after how great the first two books were. It also reminded me of books 1 and 2 of Hell's Rebels, which when I ran them caused my players to churn a bit due to not really feeling like they had a major objective to pursue (your mileage may vary on that though; I think a properly sandbox-minded team shouldn't have a problem with this).
Personally I think a little injection of GM social options and some on the fly tweaking to fit the party and it still has a lot of potential. The book offers a lot of room for these types of tactic tweaks, so it lends itself very well to customisation to match your players' interests.
I really like the The Twilight Child so far.
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Yeah, I can definitely say that third book is far closer to standard AP book even if it has that intrigue flavored combat encounters. I haven't had time to read it completely, but this is the impression I got from skimming:
Biggest issue to me is that first two books gave plenty of chance to use Profession skills, this doesn't list them at all for encounters and even worse, it mostly uses diplomacy/intimidate/bluff as the skill options whenever encounters refer to skills. First two books were good at using non charisma skills to get stuff done while Twilight Child is mostly about combat and charisma skills.
That said, it doesn't seem like bad book and it still has Persona phases, but yeah its definitely disappointing when compared to first two books. Thankfully at least even the combat encounters usually include roleplaying, there aren't many "attack on sight" encounters.
I do want to say few things I like about it: I think it handles mystery, intriguing feeling and foreshadowing upcoming events in the AP well and I do like that there is prominent neutral opponent in the book.
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In the interest of being a little more fair in my earlier assessment, by no means is The Twilight Child a bad book. It's still quite excellent and has plenty of interesting hooks and ideas in it. It's just decidedly more like a regular campaign book compared to the major social endeavours found in the previous two.
I think that my disappointment is more a reflection of my own hopes and (admittedly unrealistic) expectations for the AP. A big part of me really wants it to play with that social option angle, à la games like Deus Ex or Dishonored, where every encounter (or at least every major encounter) can be handled with some sort of non-violent (or not directly violent) alternative. Personally I think it would be really cool if you could go through the entire AP without ever having to draw your sword if you played it smart enough. But I will say it's a testament to this and the other books that they do leave enough wiggle room in how they're made to potentially allow that sort of thing, even if it's not normally possible by RAW. As much as I realise how Pathfinder isn't really a system built to support that sort of approach, especially in later levels, the tools they've added in recent books and this AP do enough groundwork to make it at least plausible, which I greatly appreciate. I think it's that fact alone that has put WftC (as it is so far) at the top of my AP list, and I'll be honest I wasn't expecting Hell's Rebels to be dethroned anytime soon.
I’m fidgeting waiting for my copy to get here.
I guess a change of pace isn’t a bad thing. Six books of coquettishly smiling behind fans could get a little samey. ;)
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The Twilight Child is, on its own, a good solid AP chapter, but as a successor to the superb Songbird, Scion, Saboteur and placed in the AP as a whole, its a real let down. As others have said, too few social options, too many swarms.
Firstly we get absolutely nothing on the big picture. On the inside cover we get another map of Taldor showing the 'territory' of the various factions. But except for two of them (for which we get names for, which I don't happen to like, and know the leaders of) we have absolutely nothing. Who is Nazerei? What does he/she stand for? What is her/his claim to the throne? etc etc...
We're in a period called the War for Crown, but what does that mean? We've told publicly killing important members of another faction is not possible, but what is? Is this a war? If not what? What are the various factions doing (and not doing) to achieve power? How is the populace responding?
Can I form a street militia to consider the streets of (....) in favour of Eutropia? What's happening in the rest of Taldor? So many questions, no answers.
I get that Paizo wishes that politics doesn't exist, but all this chapter did is turn me into a starving mushroom.
What was in the support articles was really cool, but they really needed to be about more about the campaign.
Lastly it seems that no one at Paizo understands what a regiment is.
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Given that across history a regiment could be anything from two companies to an entire arm of service, this is a non-issue.
Considering that, as a military historian, I'm fully aware of the broad definition of the term 'regiment', if the example offered was even remotely close to any of the above, I'd cut them some slack. "Two dozen or so soldiers" is not a regiment.
Okay, so my first impression after leafing through the third module was not wrong. I guess it'll need a bit of rewriting or maybe it's just a break from all the intrigue and social adventure for one module. We'll see how the rest of the AP shakes out.
Honestly after reading it my self if this is the weakest mod where morr than fine it pretty good, and thetes plenty of ways to ad more diplomacy if the first to where 10 out of ten id say this ones a solid eight
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I decided to give the Twilight Child a few days and read it again, and I liked it better the second time through. I think my problem was I was expecting more of the awesome that was Crownfall and Songbird, Scion, Saboteur, and instead I got standard adventure. I still think some of the things I listed above are problems, but I think I can work through them.
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man, not another sub par 3rd module.....which is in the level sweet spot
Well, the description of the last three modules makes it seem that they will take a turn towards more traditional adventuring, anyway, so they had to start somewhere with that.
But, no mistake, I think it would have been much better if they had kept the style of the first two modules going throughout the entire AP.
For quite a while I have wanted an AP that would fit into DragonLance. Specifically I have wanted to run an Ergoth-based campaign as there hasn't been any focus on that area in the past setting materials. I haven't read any of this campaign, but by the description it feels like it may be a good fit since Ergoth is an empire in decline waiting for another chance at glory. Those who are up on DragonLance lore, do you think this would make a good campaign to convert to that setting?
For quite a while I have wanted an AP that would fit into DragonLance. Specifically I have wanted to run an Ergoth-based campaign as there hasn't been any focus on that area in the past setting materials. I haven't read any of this campaign, but by the description it feels like it may be a good fit since Ergoth is an empire in decline waiting for another chance at glory. Those who are up on DragonLance lore, do you think this would make a good campaign to convert to that setting?
I have started a new thread for my question as it didn't really fit the OP's original question. Sorry for any inconvenience.
We have played our session of this
Very good so far.
The mini game that seems to cover the first bit is actually enjoyable!
second session all done
even had
Have had three sessions so far (finished 1st 2 sections of Book 1). Better role-playing from my group than usual, and some really unexpected (and enjoyable) attachments to story elements (NPCs, found items, etc). And they have definitely challenged my ability to adapt on the fly. There's so many ways much of the encounters can work out. Actually, the combat has been the most challenging for the group with a number of near death experiences already.
- Inquisitor of Calistria branded Trant after the first encounter. Trant was so pissed when she saw who came to her rescue in the basements.
- The cavalier has fallen in love with the sustaining spoon, sticking it into any container-like object he can find. Doesn't seem to mind it only has a couple of uses/day.
- Party's greed led them to let Viecar go *with his gold* so long as he left them his "magic bag"!
- A tough battle with Dagio caused a few PCs to run back for more emergency equipment from Mimips who promptly raised prices. They were going to wring his profits out of him later, but he ended up saving their butts with a couple of shock bombs when they got in over their heads with the final battle in the basement. ("Nobody beats up my best (only) customers!")
Le gasp!
Oddly about half the party speak with a French accent!!!
Yeah, if someone rebuilt the module to be more like the first two, it'd be very nice if that person could post what they did. I found module three much to be way too much of a "normal AP module" in comparison the all the others as well.
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Yeah, book 5 does have decent amount of combat, but I think it handled it much better than book 3 did while still retaining intrigue flavor. Like, book 3 is pretty much "You do investigation AND THEN UNAVOIDABLE COMBAT(diplomacy check), rinse and repeat" while book 5 is "Trap dungeon, intrigue intrigue intrigue intrigue intrigue end dungeon TIME TO KICK DOWN THE DOORS MOFOS"
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I do not have Book 5. Waiting for my game store to get it.
@Maguskn
What did you do, I was thinking that the first meating with the mercantile council to be more social rounds and so one, maybe some Yanmass event before hand.
And i am going to award story awards for ganing informationen, and the skip some off the all unavodidable combat. (Argentus encounter is just to crazy for me, that a restaurant owner goes in killing mode like that).
Sorry, I didn't mean to say that I already played it. I just got my impression from a read-through of the module and the comparison to the two modules preceding it and the two following it.
But your ideas sound pretty good already. :)
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Given that across history a regiment could be anything from two companies to an entire arm of service, this is a non-issue.Considering that, as a military historian, I'm fully aware of the broad definition of the term 'regiment', if the example offered was even remotely close to any of the above, I'd cut them some slack. "Two dozen or so soldiers" is not a regiment.
it's a midieval style war. \
a.k.a. all of the primary actors are completely broke, can't really raise armies, or go on offense, and hole up in their castles until they can make a deal.
that's why the PCs are so important. ;-)