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Title should maybe be "Why force the fun to end?"
So why not continue the campaign as normal, but make 2nd edition into another option to play? Like have 1e, 2e, and core. There has been mentions of conversions between the rules being possible. You could sell 2 versions of the same product. People might complain about paying twice, but probably less than the number complaining about 1e ending. If you make converting a volunteer position like VA, VL or such then the most work Paizo would have to do would be reviewing a conversion and small edits. It would also open up the door to converting old seasons, which doubles the number of products you already have. Seems silly to toss out the old for the new, when you can have both.
I would happily play both, but won't know if I will ever happily play 2e since it seems to be killing 1e.
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I don't really see it. I'm going to keep running 1E as long as I have players. I have at least 30-odd more scenarios releasing over the next year and a half. I have a slew of modules and APs to get through, and hope to see more of them sanctioned by the time 2E hits.
And no, I don't think it is easy to do 1E and 2E content at the same time. Take your job and add all the same tasks to it but for a slightly different system/customer/service/whatever. That is not a trivial addition. It's possible yes, but the crucial point would be is it worthwhile? Those who will benefit from it certainly think so, but those who have to do the work may not find it so.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Paizo thinks that a new system with the benefit of ten years hindsight, will be more fun than remaining shackled to things decided a decade ago that are showing their age.
If they're right, then your question should be "why switch to something that will be more fun", and that question answers itself.
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1E will only die if players allow it to. The only thing changing for PFS1 is no new content will be released after Gen Con 2019. Sure that means eventually a player can play them self out of content, but with a catalog that will include roughly 300 sanctioned adventures that will be a rare occurrence at least for the near future for all but the most ardent player. And even then there is a decent amount of re-playable content, plus the option to start even more CORE games. Balance all that with 2E/PFS2 opportunities and most players will have a massive library of opportunity to play for the foreseeable future.
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I guess I don't understand the home game comment. PFS1 is not becoming a home game. It will still largely follow the same rules it always has and will continue to be offered at GameDays and conventions as long as there is demand for it in the community and someone is willing to organize it. I have characters I am not ready to retire and plenty of scenarios I can play for credit. I expect I'll still be playing PFS1 with PF1E rules for as long as I can find others interested. I will also likely play PFS2 using PF2E rules since most of what I've heard so far, I like. Certainly, after Gen Con 2019, PFS2 will be the featured campaign, but that is because OP is a marketing platform for Paizo to sell books. Clearly, PFS1 will get less attention, but its not dying, nor is it relegated to home game status. I just don't understand that valuation.
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Season 11 starts as only 2e as currently announced. I want to play season 11, but don't like 2e. I get people together to home game it at best, or just don't play it at worst.
And sure there might be a lot out for 1e, but it would be an evaporating pool and not everyone would be in the same pool because we all played or ran different things.
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I guess I don't understand the home game comment. PFS1 is not becoming a home game.
Hopefully, PF2 will be a significantly better game for the great majority of players, ESPECIALLY to new players. I think all of us would agree that is desirable. If that occurs it will alone greatly reduce the amount of PFS1 played (people will prefer the better game).
I'm going to use myself as an example of a GM who will very likely switch over totally to PFS2. Or, if that game isn't to my tastes, likely quit PFS.
I've currently got exactly one PFS1 scenario unplayed. I've also played a great many modules and adventure paths.
So, by 2019 I'll have played just about everything.
I GM partly for the enjoyment of GMing, partly to support my community, partly for the GM chronicle sheet. Given that I have 5 stars at this point the GM credit has pretty much zero value to me. Given the number of GM babies that I already have the value of GM chronicle sheets is rapidly getting lower (although still non zero).
Come 2019 I'll have the choice of GMing for PFS1 or PFS2. If I GM for PFS2 I just get WAY more rewards. Hopefully, I'll prefer PFS2 (I definitely hope that I find PFS2 to be a better game :-)). Absolutely for certain (at least in 2019) the Power Creep that I intensely dislike in PF2 will NOT be an issue in 2019.
So, I have VERY strong incentives to run only PFS2. Especially in my local lodge where GMs are a more limited resource than players. If there is a strong local demand for PFS1 over PFS2 I MAY still continue to run it. Or I may quit. But if there is anything like enough demand for PFS2 to fill all my GMing time then I'll only be running it.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I don't think one will be objectively better. They are going to be different, and differences cause opinions and favorites.
What I'm trying to say is don't limit the options, when you can have both.
The thing is, supporting any system costs resources. Paizo has only so many resources to allocate, so putting in more effort to support PFS1 would detract from PFS2. If they believe PFv2 is a better game then supporting that most makes sense.
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Season 11 starts as only 2e as currently announced. I want to play season 11, but don't like 2e. I get people together to home game it at best, or just don't play it at worst.
I have to ask, how do you know this already? The play test hasn’t even started, yet many folks have made this claim.
Would it not be healthier to have an open mind about the new system, and to see what it is like before declaring you don’t like it?
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I don't think one will be objectively better. They are going to be different, and differences cause opinions and favorites.
What I'm trying to say is don't limit the options, when you can have both.
Obviously people will disagree and some will believe the older system to be, on balance, better.
But if the significant majority, especially of new players, do not think that the system is significantly better then Paizo has failed.
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I don't think one will be objectively better.
Well Paizo certainly hopes 2e will be objectively better. That's why they're using the experience gained over 19 years of the d20 system, as well as providing an evolving playtest ruleset, to make a brand new system. It wouldn't make much sense for them to do that, and then release an equal or worse system, would it?
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Venture-Lieutenant
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I don't think one will be objectively better.Well Paizo certainly hopes 2e will be objectively better. That's why they're using the experience gained over 19 years of the d20 system, as well as providing an evolving playtest ruleset, to make a brand new system. It wouldn't make much sense for them to do that, and then release an equal or worse system, would it?
I would go one step further it better be objectively better or Paizo has failed. 10 years of PF experience numerous years of 3.0 & 3.5 experience before that. 6 months of public playtest (I am assuming that the book has to go to final and print by March), it would be hard to not iron out at least some of the problems of the current system.
The problem with objective measurements is what are the metrics we are measuring to make our determination? For Paizo the objective measurements may be different than for you, but they should be at least aware of what you are going to use as your measurements since their overriding goal is to sell you PF2 and its related accessories. For me as the entity of a Paizo customer I have already spent more on PF2 than I have on PF so if you look at this in the microcosm of me as a single customer PF2 is already objectively better that PF. Yes I know I am a far outlier and if they use me as a subset they are going to get it wrong.
The real argument is will it be subjectively better. That is going to come down to preference. We can get into a spirited discussion about it and never come to any meaningful conclusion, lets rewind 10 years and have the PF/4e debate again.
What I would like to see is a conscious effort by Paizo and the Venture Staff to keep the community together. For me that was the real problem with the PF/4e split was half the Living Greyhawk community went to PF half went to 4e and very few (at least in my friend group) split the difference. That is what worries me more than what the rules look like.
--Chris
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From what is in the blogs so far, I can tell you it will not be better imo, it will be different. Some will prefer it, some won't. I think I'll probably fall into the category of "won't" and would like it no to kill my fun. My motives are selfish, but honestly, I would pay to buy new scenarios still. So if Paizo wants to make money off me going forward, this is me telling them how.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
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From what I have seen, it is decidedly better thought out than what the 3.0 PHB was when it was released. Hindsight for the system and it's flaws is a part of that.
I see some of the better aspects of the 4th edition of DnD without the generic whitewashing that was complained about ad nauseam. Some of the overall design choices are specific to the Pathfinder system and seems to have some of the innovations from PF1 in mind with it's structure and design.
The item pricing seems to also be better than anything before, with either brand and other fantasy class based systems, from what little we have seen thus far. This killed 4th edition more than anything else.
I would hope that everyone would give this new system a chance, even with the inclusion of Vancian Casting yet again, and see how it works before writing it off.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Title should maybe be "Why force the fun to end?"
So why not continue the campaign as normal, but make 2nd edition into another option to play? Like have 1e, 2e, and core. There has been mentions of conversions between the rules being possible. You could sell 2 versions of the same product. People might complain about paying twice, but probably less than the number complaining about 1e ending. If you make converting a volunteer position like VA, VL or such then the most work Paizo would have to do would be reviewing a conversion and small edits. It would also open up the door to converting old seasons, which doubles the number of products you already have. Seems silly to toss out the old for the new, when you can have both.
I would happily play both, but won't know if I will ever happily play 2e since it seems to be killing 1e.
Simply because there's going to be no new content being produced for it by Paizo. Why? Because they're going to be putting work into producing stuff for PF2, SFS, and ACG. Our OPF designers are already spread a little thin as is, and I think adding PF1 to their list would result in lower quality products across the board--not to mention they just finished producing their very own RPG system and probably want to produce content for that.
As far as converting goes--I imagine this will occur. I'm of the opinion that after enough time has passed (lets say N years), PF1 PFS will effectively be no longer supported by Paizo. Much like Diablo 2 is (if you read the other thread about replays, I use this analogy further). People still play it, but there are no patches, updates, or any company provisions for that game.
The same thing will happen with PF1 PFS, as that's what happens to systems and games when they get updated. Heck, there are still people that play (and prefer) ADND. So after N years, once you and other PF1 PFS participants have drained the well, and are looking to play new scenarios, conversions, homebrewed scenarios, etc will start getting released by the fans. It's what has happened with D2, SSBB, and a slew of other communities when their chosen game has been "updated." What we'll have is three communities--die hard PF1 players, PF2 only players, and people that play PF2 and a little PF1 (this is the largest community).
It's sounding to me like you're in the first group, which is 100% fine. I love PF1 too, and will still play some of it come PF2. But part of a games life cycle is that it will inevitably stop being supported. PF1 had a great run. A really great run. But the designers have tapped the well, and are itching to move on to something else.
TLDR: If you want to play 2nd edition scenarios converted to 1st edition, just wait until someone does that. Or you can do it yourself. Play PFSv1 with your friends in a "home game" mode and have a great time.
*As a side note, I've seen this question a couple times now, "What about PFv1 when PF2 comes out?" And I think the the best answer is: "Play it as long as you'd like, then, if you want, come play PF2. There's nothing stopping you from playing PFS just like you always have. You just have to realize that at some point there will be no new content. But that's a problem for future you. So just keep playing what you like."
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Any chance of Paizo doing a limited license to one or a select few 3PP to continue producing PF1 PFS scenarios? I would point to the DM's Guild as a model for how that could be implemented. I have not played the latest addition of the other system but have looked into it recently and it appears that those coastal spellcasters allow 3PPs to actually sell scenarios that are officially part of their organized play campaign. I see no reason why Paizo could not do something similar. This would allow PF1 to continue to flourish and allow the great staff at Paizo to concentrate on the new stuff. Sounds like a classic Michael Scott win-win-win scenario. Win for Paizo, win for PF1 PFS fans and win for 3PPs.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Any chance of Paizo doing a limited license to one or a select few 3PP to continue producing PF1 PFS scenarios? I would point to the DM's Guild as a model for how that could be implemented. I have not played the latest addition of the other system but have looked into it recently and it appears that those coastal spellcasters allow 3PPs to actually sell scenarios that are officially part of their organized play campaign. I see no reason why Paizo could not do something similar. This would allow PF1 to continue to flourish and allow the great staff at Paizo to concentrate on the new stuff. Sounds like a classic Michael Scott win-win-win scenario. Win for Paizo, win for PF1 PFS fans and win for 3PPs.
If that's something you're interested in you could certainly reach out to the current developer of PFS, John Compton, and see what his thoughts are. He does stalk these forums, but you might be better off emailing him.
That said, I imagine Paizo (and by extension John) will be focusing on releasing PF2, new SFS content, and new PF2 PFS content in the near future and likely won't have time to look into other options like this for PF1. It's also, again, not really needed until we reach a point where a majority of campaign participants have drained the well. In my mind this is a 'problem' for next year; and I don't even consider it a problem.
I'm guessing that you still have a lot of games available before this even becomes a problem. I say this because there's still an entire Season of PFSv1 yet to release.