Crafting a Cloak of Elvenkind, "creator must be an elf"

[JacT]

I know that the magically crafting rules state that the only actual required requirement is the crafting feat itself, and you can add +5 to the DC for any requirement you don't meet, but the word "MUST" in "creator must be an elf" feels like it's an exception to the rule.

I see 3 ways to interpret this:
1) A non-elf can just add 5
2) Only elves can make this item
3) A non-elf can make this item with the help of an elf

What's the consensus on this?

I also want to make a Folding Boat. It seems like a waste to take 2 ranks in Craft (ships) to make 1 boat, but I wouldn't mind walking to the harbor and finding out who build's their ships.

Thanks

[LazarX]

JacT wrote:

I know that the magically crafting rules state that the only actual required requirement is the crafting feat itself, and you can add +5 to the DC for any requirement you don't meet, but the word "MUST" in "creator must be an elf" feels like it's an exception to the rule.

I see 3 ways to interpret this:
1) A non-elf can just add 5
2) Only elves can make this item
3) A non-elf can make this item with the help of an elf

What's the consensus on this?

I also want to make a Folding Boat. It seems like a waste to take 2 ranks in Craft (ships) to make 1 boat, but I wouldn't mind walking to the harbor and finding out who build's their ships.

Thanks

This is the way I roll, there is no rules answer to your question.

For the first part, I enforce "must be a race" unequivocably. I'm also of the old school that only high elven NPC master armorers can make elven chain.

For the second I'm a bit lax and say that the caster can get the help of a person with ranks in shipbuilder to get the project done. Said person of course, will have to be paid for his time, which is in addition to the standard crafting cost.

[Imbicatus]

The rules answer is if you don't meet a requirement you can still make the item with a +5 dc to ignore the requirement. If you wish to house rule it that you cannot bypass certain requirements that's fine, but it is a house rule.

[Jeff Merola]

Imbicatus is correct. In both instances you can just add 5 to the DC to bypass that requirement.

[JacT]

Thanks, that's what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

[Skylancer4]

Aren't there some prereqs that cannot be "ignored"? I seem to recall some posts about it, but I never really followed them all the way to conclusion.

[Jeff Merola]

Skylancer4 wrote:

Aren't there some prereqs that cannot be "ignored"? I seem to recall some posts about it, but I never really followed them all the way to conclusion.

Not quite. There are some item types you can't ignore prereqs for. You can't ignore prereqs for potions, spell completion, or spell trigger. Totally can ignore racials, though.

[kinevon]

You also cannot ignore the Crafting feat requirement.

[LazarX]

Jeff Merola wrote:

Skylancer4 wrote:

Aren't there some prereqs that cannot be "ignored"? I seem to recall some posts about it, but I never really followed them all the way to conclusion.

Not quite. There are some item types you can't ignore prereqs for. You can't ignore prereqs for potions, spell completion, or spell trigger. Totally can ignore racials, though.

I have a problem with that though. If you could ignore the "racial" requirement, why is it even called elven chain, since any tom dick or harriet ogre would be able to make it then?

[Skylancer4]

LazarX wrote:

Jeff Merola wrote:

Skylancer4 wrote:

Aren't there some prereqs that cannot be "ignored"? I seem to recall some posts about it, but I never really followed them all the way to conclusion.

Not quite. There are some item types you can't ignore prereqs for. You can't ignore prereqs for potions, spell completion, or spell trigger. Totally can ignore racials, though.

I have a problem with that though. If you could ignore the "racial" requirement, why is it even called elven chain, since any tom dick or harriet ogre would be able to make it then?

Unfortunately while I don't agree with it, it is easy enough to explain. Once a product is out there, someone is going to figure out how they did it. Elven chain was made originally by elves, doesn't mean no one else can make it, it's just the origin.

[blackbloodtroll]

You don't need to be English, to make English Tea.

[_Ozy_]

LazarX wrote:

Jeff Merola wrote:

Skylancer4 wrote:

Aren't there some prereqs that cannot be "ignored"? I seem to recall some posts about it, but I never really followed them all the way to conclusion.

Not quite. There are some item types you can't ignore prereqs for. You can't ignore prereqs for potions, spell completion, or spell trigger. Totally can ignore racials, though.

I have a problem with that though. If you could ignore the "racial" requirement, why is it even called elven chain, since any tom dick or harriet ogre would be able to make it then?

Given that this is the rules forum, can you please stop telling people that the rules don't have an answer when they actually do? This has been answered multiple times

[Xexyz]

LazarX wrote:

I have a problem with that though. If you could ignore the "racial" requirement, why is it even called elven chain, since any tom dick or harriet ogre would be able to make it then?

Just think of it as genericization, the same way how in the real world Kleenex is often used when referring to facial tissue in general, not just Kleenex brand tissue.

[LazarX]

_Ozy_ wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Jeff Merola wrote:

Skylancer4 wrote:

Aren't there some prereqs that cannot be "ignored"? I seem to recall some posts about it, but I never really followed them all the way to conclusion.

Not quite. There are some item types you can't ignore prereqs for. You can't ignore prereqs for potions, spell completion, or spell trigger. Totally can ignore racials, though.

I have a problem with that though. If you could ignore the "racial" requirement, why is it even called elven chain, since any tom dick or harriet ogre would be able to make it then?

Given that this is the rules forum, can you please stop telling people that the rules don't have an answer when they actually do? This has been answered multiple times

And part of that answer is that the GM ultimately has the say in how magic items are made. Especially if he feels that the rules need amendments for story's sake.

[_Ozy_]

LazarX wrote:

_Ozy_ wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Jeff Merola wrote:

Skylancer4 wrote:

Aren't there some prereqs that cannot be "ignored"? I seem to recall some posts about it, but I never really followed them all the way to conclusion.

Not quite. There are some item types you can't ignore prereqs for. You can't ignore prereqs for potions, spell completion, or spell trigger. Totally can ignore racials, though.

I have a problem with that though. If you could ignore the "racial" requirement, why is it even called elven chain, since any tom dick or harriet ogre would be able to make it then?

Given that this is the rules forum, can you please stop telling people that the rules don't have an answer when they actually do? This has been answered multiple times

And part of that answer is that the GM ultimately has the say in how magic items are made. Especially if he feels that the rules need amendments for story's sake.

The GM ultimately has the say in how ANY of the rules are applied, so that particular statement is useless with regard to the Rules forum.

People are here to find out what the rules say. The rules say you can bypass racial requirements with a +5 DC.

Period.

The fact that you can rule 0 anything in pathfinder applies to this rule just as much as any other.

[Cevah]

JacT wrote:

I see 3 ways to interpret this:

1) A non-elf can just add 5
2) Only elves can make this item
3) A non-elf can make this item with the help of an elf

1) Yes

2) No
3) Yes

/cevah

[Qaianna]

Skylancer4 wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Jeff Merola wrote:

Skylancer4 wrote:

Aren't there some prereqs that cannot be "ignored"? I seem to recall some posts about it, but I never really followed them all the way to conclusion.

Not quite. There are some item types you can't ignore prereqs for. You can't ignore prereqs for potions, spell completion, or spell trigger. Totally can ignore racials, though.

I have a problem with that though. If you could ignore the "racial" requirement, why is it even called elven chain, since any tom dick or harriet ogre would be able to make it then?

Unfortunately while I don't agree with it, it is easy enough to explain. Once a product is out there, someone is going to figure out how they did it. Elven chain was made originally by elves, doesn't mean no one else can make it, it's just the origin.

Don't think it'd even just apply to elven chain. There's nothing stopping an orc with enough Craft skill and motivation from building anything. Including elven curve blades, dwarven longhammers, and halfling sling staves. Because every orc really wants a halfling sling staff but ones built by halflings are so tiny.

And this now makes me imagine someone making a Furious weapon. One requirement is 'rage'. Which brings the image of a wizard making a +1 furious greatsword with a nearby barbarian to supply the rage. 'OK, to make this weapon, I need you to get really pissed off, please.' 'Of course. DIE!' 'Thank you.'