Valeros' illiterate parents


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


So I really like Valeros as a character, but... how exactly are his parents illiterate? Are they Kellid barbarians with a 3rd-party trait?

In Pathfinder everyone, even Barbarians can read.

It seems like an example of Gameplay and Story Segregation, which I really don't like. It's jarring in video games, and it's nearly inexcusable in Table-Top RPGs, where we have a lot more freedom to adjust the rules to match the narrative.

I tend to view the rules as a "framework" upon which we drape the narrative, so in that function, the rules need to serve the narrative.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Voin_AFOL wrote:

So I really like Valeros as a character, but... how exactly are his parents illiterate? Are they Kellid barbarians with a 3rd-party trait?

In Pathfinder everyone, even Barbarians can read.

They just are? Why not simply accept that and move on? Rules and combat mechanics are just the way we interact with the world. They aren't the world itself.


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Agreed with LazarX, don't sweat it. Not everything in a game world needs to follow the rules. They removed the old problem of barbarians not being able to read because it was silly and an unnecessary mechanical restriction. No one else in the game had a mechanical ability saying they couldn't read.

Sometimes things just are.


Think of Golarion as a fantastic reinvention of Earth. Even in the western world, there are those who have access to the material, but do not learn how to read.


Same reason Razmir isn't a 20th level wizard with the immortality discovery.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Echo Vining wrote:
Same reason Razmir isn't a 20th level wizard with the immortality discovery.

But I am quite sure than what he is isn't fully described by his listing as Wizard (17) either. And he does have divine patronage of a sort.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Is there any indication that Valeros's parents have PC class levels? If not, the problem goes away -- NPCs can be literate or illiterate or even unable to speak Common as the plot of the game demands.


Why / how is this an issue to begin with?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
David knott 242 wrote:

Is there any indication that Valeros's parents have PC class levels? If not, the problem goes away -- NPCs can be literate or illiterate or even unable to speak Common as the plot of the game demands.

Even if they did have class levels, it's only a problem if someone insists on making it one.

Here's a thing, the Paizo folks have copted to making minor variances in the way NPCs and monsters are constructed to make them come out the way they want the stories to unfold. DM's should feel free to do the same when it comes to the worlds and adventures they create.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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The assumption in my head is that all PLAYER CHARACTERS (including our iconics, who are player character stand-ins) are literate, because the basic assumptions of the game work better when player characters can interact and communicate efficiently.

Whether or not an NPC (including Valeros's parents) are literate is entirely up to the author/developer/GM.

Paizo Employee Developer

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The real shame is that they can't even read this thread to see that their illiteracy is causing anyone such turmoil. How will they ever know that they are breaking the fundamental rules of reality?

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Goblins don't have an illiterate race feature, but they're much better off for the fluff that says they're afraid of/angered by writing.

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