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I literally just made a thread about this yesterday. Here is the link
Link
I like prepared spellcasting as a game mechanic, but it never fit with what I imagine happening in the genre. I can't wrap my mind around Gandalf forgetting a spell after he casts it; it just doesn't work for me.Perhaps it might help to remember that Gary Gygax built the magic-user after Turjan of the Dying Earth, and not Gandalf. If you actually read the Turjan stories, you can understand how the mechanic works.
Gygax was an extremely wide reader in fantasy and pulp fiction, far more so than most players. To get an idea, check the Bibliography printed in the First Edition books.
And it isn't like Gandalf was a human who learned wizardry. He was a divine being who incarnated himself as a human.
Eldrich Scion doesn't work very well as a Magus. It has to wait too long in order to get real Spell Combat, the pool is depleted too quickly, and the skill points are very low.
So no one can wild shape in your world? Getting rid of druid basically causes this ability to not exist. I always thought that prepared casting worked best for druids and rangers, having to gather the power and trigger it.
Personally, I like the prepared casters.
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This is easy:
All prepared 9 level casters cast like Arcanists.
All prepared 6 level casters cast like Arcanists, but with bard spells per day -1 of highest level.
All prepared 4 level casters cast like Bloodragers but with one less spell per day.
Played this way before anyone even invented Arcanists spellcasting. Best of both worlds, hybrid prepared spontaneous casting is much closer to the fiction.
Optimization isn't a factor for my purposes; Eldritch Scion is...Eldrich Scion doesn't work very well as a Magus. It has to wait too long in order to get real Spell Combat, the pool is depleted too quickly, and the skill points are very low.
So no one can wild shape in your world? Getting rid of druid basically causes this ability to not exist. I always thought that prepared casting worked best for druids and rangers, having to gather the power and trigger it.
Personally, I like the prepared casters.
...almost useless until it reaches 8th level when it can finally do what a normal Magus can do at 2nd level -- Spell Combat every round. Before that time, they have to spend a point from their pool in order to do Spell Combat for two rounds.
Make up your own spell mechanic for those classes. Instead of wizards forgetting their spells once cast have them cast directly from the book. The book itself is magical and the spells draw magic from the wizard and the book. He needs the book in hand to cast spells and once cast that spell (slot) is tapped out for the day.
In the end the wizard is the same as it is now with different flavor and the requirement of holding the book. To offset the drawback you could have it so that the book cover could be enhanced to add metamagic to a spell x times per day. You could also make it so that prepared(book) casters automatically have still spell because they need the book in hand and it's doing part of the work. Its more dangerous and open to sundering I suppose, but you aren't losing so many classes.
A magus would look cool with his sword in one hand and book in the other.
...almost useless until it reaches 8th level when it can finally do what a normal Magus can do at 2nd level -- Spell Combat every round. Before that time, they have to spend a point from their pool in order to do Spell Combat for two rounds.Optimization isn't a factor for my purposes; Eldritch Scion is...Eldrich Scion doesn't work very well as a Magus. It has to wait too long in order to get real Spell Combat, the pool is depleted too quickly, and the skill points are very low.
So no one can wild shape in your world? Getting rid of druid basically causes this ability to not exist. I always thought that prepared casting worked best for druids and rangers, having to gather the power and trigger it.
Personally, I like the prepared casters.
Yeah... Eldritch Scions is one of those sad cases where a great idea almost works, but is ruined by a couple details...
Just take the normal Magus and give it spells known/per days as a Bard. No need for the whole Bloodrager b$~$~!$~ tackled on it. If your really want it to be based on Cha, at least give the poor guy +2 skill points per level.
You can keep the Druid and give it Oracle spell progression. Shouldn't be too far off.
SPHERES OF POWER
prepared isn't even true prepared, you can still concentrate to perform your non prepared abilities.
I would recommend Kobold Press's Shaman as a spontaneous replacement for the Druid if you want to go this route. Otherwise, there would be no representation for druid casting.
Also, maybe also a domain archetype for Oracles that trades some revelations for a domain to keep some of the Cleric flavor.
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EDIT: Sphere of Power is a great system, but it would require a lot of work re-balancing enemies for it if you completely replace Venetian for it.
Also, Psionic classes are all spontaneous casters, so it would be worthwhile to look into Ult. Psionics as well. They do spontaneous casting much better than Sorcerers, in my opinion.
also sphere's of power makes it so multiclassing full casters is doable. abilities are tied to caster level not class level.
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I can't wrap my mind around Gandalf forgetting a spell after he casts it; it just doesn't work for me.
The crucial thing here to remember is that, as of 3rd edition, spells are not memorized. They are prepared.
A fireball spell is more than three seconds of gestures and words. It takes three pages of tightly-written scrawls in a spellbook - writing so precise that common inks are insufficient to scribe it. Preparing spells in the morning isn't studying so you remember the words later - it's doing most of the work of casting the spell. 'Casting' the spell is just saying the last few words to complete it. Trying to cast a spell directly out of a spellbook, without preparation, takes 15 minutes.
So, to use an analogy, casting a spell is like pulling the pin on a grenade and throwing it. You haven't forgotten how afterwards, you're just out of grenades. Preparing spells in the morning is like assembling a bunch of grenades, then carefully inserting the pins so you can use them later, quickly.
(Of note, the Chronicles of Amber handled spellcasting in this way.)
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As a player I like choices, so in this instance I would rather have a different choice than less classes to choose from.
My only bit of advice - you're better off eliminating the magus entirely rather than crippling it into a crappy fighter.
Take a look at the various alternate spellcasting mechanics from Unearthed Arcana. Recharge magic might be the thing you want.
Arcanists would still have spellbooks, and they don't forget their spells when cast.
All sorcerers can clearly read magic, either with the read magic spell or via the Spellcraft skill. I don't see why they need to write down spells outside of the Scribe Spell feat - Sorcerers don't actually need to learn spells from anywhere.
Magic Item creation doesn't have to change much: Pathfinder lets you add +5 to the creation DC to skip knowing a particular spell. (For items that don't directly recreate the spell. Scrolls, wands, and potions still need the spell they duplicate.)
I always looked at prepared casting as being like the Amber series of novels. Casting a spell actually takes a long long time and has to be done really specifically. So instead a sorcerer would cast most of the spell and leave a few of the variables empty. These blanks were called Lynch pins. They you hang the spell in your mind or some special artifact and hold it there until needed. When the time came to cast the spell you fill in the blanks and let it fly.
you might consider some of the options in Pathfinder Unchained. Things like Limited Magic and Flexible Spell preparation might help with what you have in mind
I like prepared spellcasting as a game mechanic, but it never fit with what I imagine happening in the genre. I can't wrap my mind around Gandalf forgetting a spell after he casts it; it just doesn't work for me. Toss in the power disparity between prepared casters and spontaneous casters (on top of the general "caster vs non-caster"), and I think the best thing is to simply go without the idea of having to prepare spells.
So, in the game I run, there will be a cosmic event where my campaign and a friend's that occurs in the same universe splits into two universes, and I'm going to take that time to remove prepared spellcasting from the game. I'm also taking the time to add a few Advanced Class Guide classes to the game to make up for some of the ones being removed. I'd like to get some thoughts.
One new over-arching mechanic, to begin: In the movies, spellcasters have loads of spells written in books, and I don't want to get rid of that concept. Besides which, there must be a way of passing on these spells, which spontaneous casters wouldn't easily be able to do on the level needed. So, with that in mind, all Spontaneous Casters (except possibly the Bloodrager, who for flavor reasons would not have this ability) get Scribe Scroll as a bonus Feat. In addition, I want to add a mechanic that will allow for the casting of a spell from a written source without erasing the spell (hence all of the spells they'd keep written down). My current base idea is that the caster is functionally performing a ceremony to cast the spell, with a first level spell taking 15 minutes to cast and each successive level doubling the time So, a 2nd level spell takes 30 min., 3rd level is 1 hr, 6th is 1 day, up to a 9th level spell taking a week where all you are doing is casting the spell for eight hours a day each day. This also goes along with those weird ceremonies always shown in movies that the good guys conveniently have time to interrupt.
So, with that in mind, here are the other adjustments:
Removed Classes:...
You should check out the Occult Adventures book, it adds a bunch of spontaneous classes as well as some fun stuff for other classes, Question: What about spontaneous archetypes? For instance the Ley Line Witch from OA makes the witch into a spontaneous caster that uses the sorcerer tables for number of Spells Known and Spells Per Day
The Unlettered Arcanist also lets you get the Witch spell list on a spontaneous chassis.
.... Toss in the power disparity between prepared casters and spontaneous casters ...
In my previous gaming group we had who almost never let me find out very much of what was going to be happening or who I would be fighting. The group never wanted to wait around while I filled an empty slot. Even if I talked them into waiting, the GM would rarely give enough uninterrupted time to do so. The campaign was a constant race against time so very nearly zero time to craft any magic items (I was only able to make a few low level scrolls over several levels). The group would get irritated when I was using game time to change my daily list of spells.
So I almost always had the same list of generally useful spells prepared. But what if I needed 3 fly spells that day? Too bad I only had 1 prepared. So I had the same list of spells each day like a sorc, but I couldn’t spam a spell if that was what I needed a bunch of right then. I struggled through 7 levels with my wizard being mostly fairly ineffectual. Most of the time he was less useful that the poorly built fighter run by the newbie. I retired him and made an oracle. Definitely not extremely optimized, but easily one of the most effective characters in the group (might have been edged out by the paladin, but close). In that campaign, with that group, and that GM – a prepared caster is at an extreme disadvantage. Spontaneous casters are substantially more effective.
The group before that was almost exactly the opposite in all respects. Detailed info was fairly easy to come by, the group had no problem taking time for preparation and detailed plans, and the campaign had plenty of down time for whatever we needed/wanted to do getting ready. So the prepared caster was almost always able to be ready with the very nearly perfect spell for each situation to really significant effect. Could make whatever magic items we wanted.
In that campaign, with that group, and that GM – a prepared caster is everything. They are virtually unstoppable and will make virtually any other type of PC look like second string support.
Most groups (including my current one) are somewhere in between. Both are effective. Both have strengths and weaknesses. I think it is actually best to have one of each in a group. A prepared caster to try and have the perfect spell when you know what to expect AND spontaneous caster that can spam pretty good spells like crazy when the smelly-stuff-hits-the-rotary-impeller! So maybe a druid and sorc or a wizard and oracle.
I like prepared spellcasting as a game mechanic, but it never fit with what I imagine happening in the genre. ...
In the movies, spellcasters have loads of spells written in books, and I don't want to get rid of that concept. Besides which, there must be a way of passing on these spells, which spontaneous casters wouldn't easily be able to do on the level needed. ...
This actually sounds exactly like the arcanist to me.
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A while back there was something in the homebrew forums. They used all 3 mental stats for all casters. All casters were fairly close to the same casting mechanics. It was pretty close to the Arcanist before that book came out. The bloodlines, mysteries, domains, schools, ect… were just for the other abilities.
I think it was Wisdom for bonus spell slots each day and concentration checks, Intelligence for bonus to the number of spells that could be prepared each day, and charisma for the spell saving throw DC.
It was something like that anyhow.
.... Toss in the power disparity between prepared casters and spontaneous casters ...** spoiler omitted **
I think casters in general could stand to be toned down, but I'd love to see more parity between prepared and spontaneous casters. Let Oracles gain new spell levels at the same time as Clerics. Let Sorcerers get their bloodline spells (you know, those things that are supposed to be pretty iconic for the source of their magic) when they gain a new spell level, rather than waiting for the Wizard to get a better spell level.
One of the ideas that an old group of mine used to toss around was making all spells available all the time to a caster with a concentration check that would get more difficult based on any number of factors.
Level of Spell
Combat
Terrain
Weather
What percent of total HP the caster was at(not how much damage in a round).
Things like that.
There would be no cleric, no sorc, no wizard. Just casters, and taking feats or level-up abilities would focus you into one area or another(and reduce the DC of spells from that area). Also, the casters would get a certain number of spell levels per day to work with based on a primary caster stat. You could exceed it, but the DC would get exponentially higher.
However, eventually we decided it was going to be way too much work to completely overhaul and adapt the idea into 3rd ed rules that wouldn't last outside of the house game anyway.
I cannot stress this enough. Spheres of Power is the best way to remove vancian spellcasting. Seriously, anyone who has not tried it out needs to.
A wizard doesn't "forget" their spells.
I also like the Dreamscarred Press Psionic system. I was seriously considering running a psionic only (no magic) campaign. If you replace the casters with the closest psionic equivalents it takes care of a lot of the usual complaints with vancian magic.
** spoiler omitted **.... Toss in the power disparity between prepared casters and spontaneous casters ...** spoiler omitted **
Basically, it means sorcerers are actually kind of worse at casting their bloodline spells. You'll notice this mistake was not repeated with Oracles.
A neat patch for both problems is give bloodline spells two levels earlier (and mystery spells one level earlier), but no other spells known at that level. So a 3rd level elemental sorcerer can cast scorching ray as a 2nd level spell (like the wizard has 2nd level spells), but that's his only 2nd level spell until 4th level, when he gets another. (The Spells per day table gets moved down a row, but the Spells Known table can stay the same.)