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Hey all, I'm doing the initial groundwork to write a guide for my favorite class, the hunter! I love this class, it looks so lackluster on the surface but has this awesome depth under the hood. Charging builds, AOO builds, archer builds, buff builds, even vital strike builds, this class has options for days, and is no slouch outside of combat either. However, because of this writing a guide for the class is gonna be a large undertaking, and that's why I need your help.
So lay it on me! Best feats, best equipment, best enchantments, best skills, best traits, best dips, best spells, best builds, best companion options, surprising synergies, and best what have you. If you've got a good hunter idea I'd love to hear it.
I'm especially interested in archer hunter stuff, as I have little experience with them. Don't let that dissuade you from posting your melee hunter tips though. Heck, if you've got a way a hunter can somehow be a primary caster, put it out there.
Show off your cleverness!
See your name mentioned in the credits!
Help your fellow players build awesome hunters!
i just like to mention that there is an archetype that lets you split your levels up over multiple companions, so with enough work yyou could probably have 3 animal companions at a decent level (also gonna mention that you can have a Velociraptor animal companion, you use the Deinonychus stats)
;)
i just like to mention that there is an archetype that lets you split your levels up over multiple companions, so with enough work yyou could probably have 3 animal companions at a decent level (also gonna mention that you can have a Velociraptor animal companion, you use the Deinonychus stats)
;)
You'll probably want the Boon Companion feat for that kind of character.
Primal companion hunter...with a dead animal companion.
Since you get the eidolon evos instead when your animal companion meets an "unfortunate accident" (frisbee went right into the dragon's lair- darndest thing), you can make this a watered down and balanced synthesist (only one set of hp, keeps original stats, no scaling increases to stats and natural armor outside of the evo pool etc.)
Even with just strength and natural armor increases, you are fighting on par with inquisitors. When you add in things like wings, senses, and skilled evos, you are fairly well off. Use natural attacks, or just go for a nice 2 handed build using large reach and your martial weapon proficiencies.
And remember- 1 min/level means 1 fight/level most of the time. That means at level 10, when an inquisitor can use judgements for 4 fights a day, you can do 10 fights.
I know this goes against the general flavor of the class...but it is an opportunity to have a class that can literally hulk out. Take the concept of a hunter in a different direction as you gain lycanthrope like power that lets you tear prety apart with your bare hands.
Sidenote- be careful since I think the allowed evos can be a bit messy, since you are not dealing with actual base forms. I am just going to assume that you are treated as having the bipedal base form.
kill your animal companion reap benefits of an extra animal focus or what ever it's called, mix with the vermin archetype for fast healing.
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I've Been slowly working on this Melee Style Hunter for Kingmaker for a while now. Trying to Finish him but here is what I have.
The Hunter himself begins his life with Shellighleh and Club. He learns his fighting style with his lifelong AC Partner "The King". The King teaches the hunter how to fight and Vice Versa becoming a strong Tag team. The Hunter later gives up the Club and Spell for Lead Blades and a Reach weapon with combat reflexes at level 5 when he gets his first "replacement Spell".
Human- Eye for Talent (gives the AC a +2 to INT to make it intelligent)
Str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 13, Wis: 14, Cha: 10
Trait: Transmuter- Cat's Grace
Feats:
1: Spirit's Gift- (dr/5 Adamantine + 1 fast healing makes a mean companion)
Teamwork 2: Out Flank
3: Combat Expertise
Teamwork 3: Pack Flanking
5: Combat Reflexes (Stops using Shillelagh and switches to reach weapon)
Teamwork 6: Broken Wing Gambit
7: Paired opportunist
9: Power attack
Teamwork 9: Coordinated Maneuvers
11: Improved Critical (reach weapon)
Teamwork 12: Seize the Moment
13: ?
Spells:
I tend to let the AP/Adventure type pick what spells I learn. The only definite with this build are Thus.
1st Level- Shillieghleh -> Trade to Lead blades at Level 5, Resist Energy (this is a steal for a 1st level spell)
2nd Level- Cat's Grace
3rd level- Greater Magic Fang or Strong Jaw (I'm on the fence on this one)
4th Level- Animal Growth (duhhhhhh)
The Hunter grew up in the woods as a farmer/hunter learning from his father. To keep the garden free of bugs his Father use to put mantis in the garden and let them kill off the bugs on the crops. Growing up he use to make pets out the Mantis sometimes and watch the epic bug fights in wonder. One day He even noticed a rather large mantis killing a bird and defending itself with a deadly fighting style. Since then the Hunter has been on the look out for "The King" of Mantis and believes he has found it. Thus he always refers to his pet as "The King".
Eye for talent +2 to Int (no longer Mindless) and +1 to Int at 4th level to give him a 3 Int to qualify for more types feats
No archetype because loss of Share spell is kind of bad when I have so many Buff options.
Feats:
1-Combat reflexes
2-Power attack
5-Weapon Focus- Claws (because he is grabbing with them)
8-Iron Will
10-Improved natural attack- Claws (now 1d8)
13-Improved Iron Will
As for mantis being a Quadruped/Hexapod and having a 3 Int he can wear certain slots items and use Ioun Stones; I was thinking these items on him:
Amulet of Mighty Fists, Anaconda’s Coils (Constrict), Cloak of Resistance, Mithral Barding, Headband of Fortune’s Favor
Hope you like him. Or if you have suggestions to make him even more awesome I'd consider let me know.
First, there's the obvious - you've got an animal companion from the druid list and good weapons/armor. A halfling lancer on a roc works pretty well though may be short of feats at first.
As an archer ... you lack a damage boost (unless you spend a combat action casting gravity bow, aspect of the falcon or similar; not often worthwhile) and have less than full BAB, there will be others who do this better. Having a pet to pin the enemy down isn't enough to make up the difference, even with broken wing/wounded paw.
Broken wing gambit + pack flanking + outflank should be nice though. If you can spare the feats for improved trip even better.
Obviously for melee Hunter... Outflank + Pack Flanking + Menacing Amulet of Mighty Fists is down right disgusting! +6 bonus to attack for 4000gp and only one feat that you have to put a little effort into. Or you can take a 1 level dip into brawler to avoid the Int tax for Combat Expertise. Combine that with Broken Wing Gambit and a high crit weapon... well you've got wonderful goodness all over the place.
Obviously for melee Hunter... Outflank + Pack Flanking + Menacing Amulet of Mighty Fists is down right disgusting! +6 bonus to attack for 4000gp and only one feat that you have to put a little effort into. Or you can take a 1 level dip into brawler to avoid the Int tax for Combat Expertise. Combine that with Broken Wing Gambit and a high crit weapon... well you've got wonderful goodness all over the place.
Make that Brawler dip the Wild Child archetype for full AC progression and zero downside.
Simplest thing to understand is that you really lack hit bonuses early on.
Because of this feats like distracting charge and paired opportunist become vastly important.
Also your companion can eventually get any feat you want by sheer expediency of pumping you int to 3.
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Samsaran Hunter with mystic past life, because why not add another caster to your very versatile spell list:
-Cleric(get to hit bonuses!): Divine Favor, Blessing of Fervor, Heal, or hell even the summon monsters spells, word of recall for quick escape etc...terrible remorse spell too. Magic weapon greater and magic vestment as well for long term buffs on your equipment. Or you could go more spellcaster, depending on your style of play.
-Paladin: Litany of righteousness, Holy Sword, basically all spells early to compliment your spell list.
-Inquisitor: Divine favor, Magic vestment, Battlemind Link (Link with someone with a higher attack bonus than you!), Righteous Might, Heal, litany spells too.
-Shaman: Only if you are making a spellcaster Hunter, which is actually a possibility.
Also last but not least feat wise:
Spirit's Gift: Almost no reason not to take it, you get spirit shaman ability added to your animal companion.
Ranger spell combination:
Named bullet+Venomed bolt.
A ranged touch attack arrow shot that autocrits and inflicts the poison spell. You can pull it off with just basic hunter level 6 or 7. If you add to the mix: Gravity bow, the strength bonus (+4) for composite bow, point blank, +1 enhancement and deadly aim damage bonus, you can easily get roughly 6d6+30 points of damage from that one shot, and then the poison spell hasnt even begun to kick in.
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All kinds of arrow magic becomes viable with the hunter spell progression, Arrow eruption is one of my faves.
Awesome guys, keep em coming!
I'm loving these ideas, especially that badger thing. I'll have to add it to the class dip section.
The barbarian VMC has cool synergy with melee hunters. Especially if youre the type to take the animal focus for yourself.
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Primal hunters have a tonne of cool stuff they can do by applying the evolutions to either themselves or their companions. Ranging from thematic (Breath, Climb, energy attacks) to nice and crunchy strong (ability scores, size, special attacks). I beleive pounce is in there somewhere.
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Combine the two above for a hulking monster hunter. A single form shapeshifter a-la Jeckyl and Hyde or just lycantrophy, or more alien stuff suitable for cthulu-esque campaigns.
Does the wild child and hunter stack with the pet? Or give a new one?
Depends on your GM. For PFS, it stacks, but does not grant a new AnC. If it's a home game, then your GM makes the call. Personal opinion, I would say that they simply stack.
Also, dragonhunterq, good catch on the Wild Child archetype!
Another suggestion, for human hunters is the Eye For Talent alternate racial trait. I would highly suggest popping that extra +2 into Intelligence. Your AnC now has, at a minimum, an intelligence of 3, can be given an entire language that it knows (can't speak it though), can take any feat it wants (that it can qualify for), and 6 extra tricks! Tricks are really what make your AnC tick, some people vastly underrate Tricks.
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I will disagree with Human Eye for Talent +2 Int. At lower levels you don't need access to other feet's. At higher levels you can gain access to the same feet's by spending 4,000gold or more if you want. Giving most animal companions a head band to cover the int bonus. The +1 to hit at lower levels is far more beneficial then getting 6 extra tricks early.
Some feet's I would like to point out. Most of them you have. However some I hade to look through a lot of resources to find.
Planar Focus: One of the best feet's for a hunter. The versatility of this feet can not be stressed enough.
Totem Beast: Good feet. Opens up options for the animal companion.
Team Work Feet's:
Improved Spell Sharing: This feet saves spells per day allowing the hunter to use fewer spells for buffing.
Look Out: See above.
Ferocious Loyalty: +1 Morale bonus to hit if your ally with this feet is threated.
(Escape Route, & Stick Together) With both you can move as you wish. You will never provoke an AoO.
Spells that work well for the hunter. That might get over looked.
1st: Heightened Awareness: Bonuses to perception that can be used to get a bonus to initiative.
3rd: Greater Long Strider: A large bonus to base speed for both the animal and hunter using improved spell sharing. The 1hr per level duration makes this one of the better buffs a hunter can cast at this level. I can not stress the importance of movement in combat enough.
4th: Bow Spirit: For both the range hunter and the melee hunter. This spell provides needed additional damage.
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Mindless creatures don't get to gain feats. By the time I have spare money to buy a headband I will be missing feats. So I take eye for talent to the mantis user. But having unlimited healing + DR/5 adamantine at level 1 makes up for +1 to hit in the lower levels. Not to mention addind boarding with 0 ACP. Makes a great tank and by level 2 I'll be fine with outflank.
Also extra tricks are nice.
Feat access really depends on the individual character and their AnC. Some people want to give their tiger Improved Unarmed Strike at 1st level so then it can pick up Improved Grapple right away! Or some folks want their snake companion to be able to use Snake Style early on.
Regardless of feats, just having those extra tricks is what really sells me on putting that bonus into Intelligence off the get go. Especially since hunters can train their AnCs to have skirmisher tricks. Having a couple of those on hand can be a wonderful additional to the standard required Tricks such as Attack (All), Flank... well there's half of your tricks at first level already.... Hope you didn't want to do anything interesting with your Anc other than attack. I disagree that those bonuses are important at lower levels... By the time you're 3rd level, you and your AnC are getting +4 to attack simply by being adjacent to each other. That is ridiculous!
Again, though, that's my personal opinion. You can still think +2 to Int at first level is a waste. I disagree with that, but that's your personal opinion. And we all know what they say about opinions. Everyone has one and they stink, but yours. ;)
I am merely presenting an option that I feel should be explored in the guide the OP is creating. That's what Guides are for, to present several options for someone to consider when they really aren't sure how to proceed.
I actually really appreciate the discussion and reasoning for things like the level one int bonus. As Faelyn said, having both schools of thought will make for a more complete guide.
Does the wild child and hunter stack with the pet? Or give a new one?
Officially animal companions stack if you have a type of companion available on both lists.
@Eye for talent on int:
As hunter companions may take skirmisher tricks having more tricks is very strong.
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I use this build in PFS:
Melee Hunter, take outflank at level 2 (free), and then combat expertise at 3 with Pack Flanking so you will practically always be flanking with your animal companion (I gave mine narrow frame when she went large size to make it easier for her to do this). Get the feat Precise Strike to add in an extra 1d6 damage to every attack the two of you do since you'll always be flanking. I chose to dip 2 levels into unchained rogue and take boon companion for evasion, a bucket of skills, and more SA damage in order to maximize my output and generally be more effective and live longer.
I also chose a falcata and went sword & board so I could farm crits and, again, not die.
Nothing ground breaking, but I'm finding it effective so far. Tempted to drop a third level for 3d6 SA, but I don't want to drag too far behind in Hunter.
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Another effective combo is an animal companion not taken very often and that is the Ape.
Ape's start with three attacks, free climb speed, and scent.
However the trick here is that ape's have hands. That's important since you can pump their int to 3 and arm or armor them to your hearts delight.
What I would do with this is work into gettign Martial Proficiency (reach weapon of choice) after we both get Combat Reflexes.
This combination (lifted from my melee summoner shenanigans) controls a lot of ground that doubles once the ape gets large.
But why stop there? Give him a bow. Now you have two characters who put out a lot of arrows and with the strength of the ape going into a large bow you can chuck out a veritable storm of pain. This actually makes for a very solid switch hitting build as well since Precise shot will no longer be necessary to function. Let opponents walk up to you and take them to bits with full attacks from you.
Between all the other buffs and options you can give it the Ape would be a blue option for me with creative players. An archer ape in particular opens up the possibility of you playing a more controlling game with your spells.
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I've got a build that I posted that uses a hunter HERE. It's primarily around having a worg companion (not the best choice, but it's fun and flavorful). It's got feat choices and is mostly just a huge template showing how awesome Hunter Tactics is.
not enough hunters killing their animal companions i am dissapoint.
not enough hunters killing their animal companions i am dissapoint.
I think that's because in almost all cases it's a bad idea, the animal companion is a huge part of the strength of the hunter class. However if you have a compelling reason to do it that gives a bigger benefit than is lost, I'd love to put it in the guide.
not enough hunters killing their animal companions i am dissapoint.
Because it's a terrible option unless you are dipping.
You're basically turning two characters into one with slightly buffed stats. You lose so much positioning and action advantage for the sake of a couple of +1's here and there.
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This is the reason I favor the headband over the eye for talent bonus. Animals get 2 skill ranks modified by Int Mod. That means they will only ever get 1 skill rank. Unless you use the headband and gain an additional skill for every bonus of the head band. That means you can get up to 4 skills with full ranks. 5 is possible with favored class bonus. You get just as many or more tricks out of this. With the added benefit of gaining skill ranks animal companions normally lack.
Headband of Vast Intelligence
This intricate gold headband is decorated with several small blue and deep purple gemstones. The headband grants the wearer an enhancement bonus to Intelligence of +2, +4, or +6. Treat this as a temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the headband is worn. A headband of vast intelligence has one skill associated with it per +2 bonus it grants. After being worn for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer's total Hit Dice. These ranks do not stack with the ranks a creature already possesses. These skills are chosen when the headband is created. If no skill is listed, the headband is assumed to grant skill ranks in randomly determined Knowledge skills.
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If you are going the medium flying creature with a small rider route, Ant-Haul should be your first spell picked.
Given that of the three small characters that are allowed for PFS without a boon, two of them just give a boost to Charisma at the loss to Strength (Halfing/Gnome), a Wayang rider is a better option. While you lose two points to wisdom, the boost to dexterity (ride, stealth) and intelligence (extra skill point) make up for it. Even with just a twelve in Wisdom, at 1st level, you can still fly for 4 hours (casting it twice). With a roc animal companion, it can carry an exotic military saddle, rider, plus about 40 pounds of gear (Light load 0-129), without boosting the strength by two. As long as you put a point in Handle Animal, you can just about tap the check for your animal companion with a 10 charisma(Suggest a trait that gives a bonus to handle animal)
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The best Hunter is a Hunter 5 / Evangelist of Erastil 6. At that level you get Erastil's 2nd divine boon which is TWIN COMPANION. You get to summon an exact copy of your already powerful AC once per day.
not enough hunters killing their animal companions i am dissapoint.I think that's because in almost all cases it's a bad idea, the animal companion is a huge part of the strength of the hunter class. However if you have a compelling reason to do it that gives a bigger benefit than is lost, I'd love to put it in the guide.
i know but it's hilarious.
mostly I'd only do it after 8th level if i was a ranged character of some sort. it lets you forgot buying belts and headbands of your stats in favor of other things.
go verminous, with worm and wasp/moth always active, then use the others for other bonuses. it's all about that fast healing.
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Another effective combo is an animal companion not taken very often and that is the Ape.
Ape's start with three attacks, free climb speed, and scent.
However the trick here is that ape's have hands. That's important since you can pump their int to 3 and arm or armor them to your hearts delight.
What I would do with this is work into gettign Martial Proficiency (reach weapon of choice) after we both get Combat Reflexes.
This combination (lifted from my melee summoner shenanigans) controls a lot of ground that doubles once the ape gets large.
But why stop there? Give him a bow. Now you have two characters who put out a lot of arrows and with the strength of the ape going into a large bow you can chuck out a veritable storm of pain. This actually makes for a very solid switch hitting build as well since Precise shot will no longer be necessary to function. Let opponents walk up to you and take them to bits with full attacks from you.
Between all the other buffs and options you can give it the Ape would be a blue option for me with creative players. An archer ape in particular opens up the possibility of you playing a more controlling game with your spells.
I have an ape and have researched this option significantly. Unfortunately, this is not possible in PFS, only in a home game. See the animal companion section of the SRD:
Increasing an animal's Intelligence to 3 or higher means it is smart enough to understand a language. However, unless an awaken spell is used, the animal doesn't automatically and instantly learn a language, any more than a human child does. The animal must be taught a language, usually over the course of months, giving it the understanding of the meaning of words and sentences beyond its trained responses to commands like "attack" and "heel."
Even if the animal is taught to understand a language, it probably lacks the anatomy to actually speak (unless awaken is used). For example, dogs, elephants, and even gorillas lack the proper physiology to speak humanoid languages, though they can use their limited "vocabulary" of sounds to articulate concepts, especially if working with a person who learns what the sounds mean.
An intelligent animal is smart enough to use tools, but might lack the ability to manipulate them. a crow could be able to use simple lockpicks, but a dog can't. Even if the animal is physically capable of using a tool, it might still prefer its own natural body to manufactured items, especially when it comes to weapons. An intelligent gorilla could hold or wield a sword, but its inclination is to make slam attacks. No amount of training (including weapon proficiency feats) is going to make it fully comfortable attacking in any other way.
Even if an animal's Intelligence increases to 3 or higher, you must still use the Handle Animal skill to direct the animal, as it is a smart animal rather than a low-intelligence person (using awaken is an exception—an awakened animal takes orders like a person). The GM should take the animal's Intelligence into account when determining its response to commands or its behavior when it doesn't have specific instructions. For example, an intelligent wolf companion can pick the weakest-looking target if directed to do so, and that same wolf trapped in a burning building might push open a door or window without being told.
Endless discussions with developers on these boards has resulted in the conclusion that they cannot use manufactured weapons, only their natural weapons. If it's a home game, that is obviously up to the GM, but for PFS that door is closed. Further, if you want a companion to use anything beyond barding/neck slot, you need the Animal Archive book, which offers a feat that unlocks a single magic item slot. Additionally, certain animal companions can only get that feat for certain slots. Apes are actually one of the few that can unlock all slots, but this DOES NOT allow them to use manufactured weapons.
Note: Awakened animal companions (per the spell) are something different entirely.
Group Hug is my Hunter concept, based on the Brutal Grappler teamwork feat and Verminous Hunter's grappling focused options.
@divvox2: The ironic part about that quote is that ape's don't have slam attacks.
It's worth noting in PFS.
But as far as home games go if a player is investing ability points and multiple feats just to have something use a weapon than most GM's are inclined to let it happen.
I agree that killing off your AnC as a full blown hunter is the worst possible option that you can make! The only time that is ever feasible, as others have already pointed out, is for a dip into hunter.
As I pointed out above, a melee hunter can gain a +6 bonus to attack simply by adjacent to their AnC... Good luck reaching anything of that level with Animal Focus...
For spells... There's really a lot you can do with spells for a hunter. My personal preference is to take spells that buff you and your AnC so you can avoid having to deal with overcoming SR and STs. That way you can keep your Wisdom fairly low without having to worry about your spells never succeeding.
Primal companion hunter and divine hunter stack, i Think. If i was to play a hunter with a dead companion that would be my choice. Several domain give good stuff(nobility gives divine favor) and evolutions Will make you a monster both to look at and in combat. And you dont loose the AC class feature so you Can take animal soul as well.
Further, if you want a companion to use anything beyond barding/neck slot, you need the Animal Archive book, which offers a feat that unlocks a single magic item slot.
According to the SRD no special feat is needed to outfit your companion with magic items.
Further, if you want a companion to use anything beyond barding/neck slot, you need the Animal Archive book, which offers a feat that unlocks a single magic item slot.According to the SRD no special feat is needed to outfit your companion with magic items
Yeah, that's a PFS ruling. Not a problem for the rest of us.
Yeah, that's a PFS ruling. Not a problem for the rest of us.Further, if you want a companion to use anything beyond barding/neck slot, you need the Animal Archive book, which offers a feat that unlocks a single magic item slot.According to the SRD no special feat is needed to outfit your companion with magic items
Yeah, animal archive is one of those books I discard most of as "not fun". I've got enough problems as a GM dealing with full casters trying to summon forth the legions of hell without nitpicking over whether or not Fido will attempt to dismantle the skeleton or bury it.