Seelah from WOTR. Incredibly overpowered?

[ranalger]

So, my group has a question. We just started the new Wrath of the Righteous campaign and one of us randomly got assigned Seelah.

Our question is regarding Seelah's first power. It is phrased thusly, "When you attempt a check before you act, you may use your Charisma skill instead of any listed skill." We have gone back and forth about when this power can actually be used, and it all seems to center around the location of the comma. Grammatically, it seems that the only time you can substitute your Charisma is before you act. That is, before you move, explore, or choose an action. For instance, when you are forced to make a check at the beginning of your turn or on another player's turn. The only problem with this interpretation is that it seems almost useless as this scenario rarely arises.

Others in our group want to interpret it as "When you attempt a check, before you act you may use your Charisma skill instead of any listed skill." (note the location of the comma). This interpretation would basically mean she can substitute her Charisma for any check, so long as the decision is made before you act (ie, roll the dice, use other cards, etc), which seems amazingly overpowered, since she would basically have a d10 on every skill.

Can someone please settle this dispute for us? And if the first interpretation is correct, am I correct in saying that it is rarely used?

Thanks!

[Ron Lundeen]

We read it as allowing Seelah to use her Charisma for any card that has a "before you act, make a such-and-such check..." power. So if you may attempt a Knowledge 8 check before you act against a demon to remove its resistance to electricity, say, Seelah would use her Charisma, and not her Knowledge, for that.

We find it comes up pretty often, actually. A couple times in each scenario, at least.

[Mogloth]

There are several banes that make you do a "check before you act". Such as the Giant Amoeba.

Before you act make a DEX or Stealth check yadda yadda. In Seelah's case she can substitute her Charisma skill for that check.

But, she can only make the substitution on checks specifically labeled as "Check before you act".

Unless Hawkmoon comes in and proves everyone wrong.

[zeroth_hour]

This is clearly answered in the rulebook on p.10:

"Apply Any Effects That Happen Before You Act.

If any powers on the card you’re encountering happen before you act, they take effect at this time. You may also use powers or cards that state they can be used before you act."

"before you act" is a specific phase in "encountering a card".

[Tracker1]

This is a poorly worded power.
I've just played 7 scenarios thinking that i could use her power before she acts to use her charisma die, and after looking back through the rule book it still does not seem to contradict the way I have been playing it.

I've encountered a boon, and apply any effects that happen before she acts, which in this case the effect is the power on her card which allows her to use her charisma skill for the check.

The rulebook say's to go through this step regardless of whether or not it's written on the card I'm encountering, so Seelah's power should be able trigger during this step even if it's not written on the encountered card.

I'm certainly prepared to be wrong, but I can't see a reason why she should not be able to do this based on what's written.

[jduteau]

I think you are wrong because the card is explicitly talking about checks that occur before you act. It is not referring to the actual encounter check which is determined in a later step. Mogloth (and zeroth_hour) both answered the way that it makes sense. If there is an explicit check you have to make before you act, Seelah can use her Charisma for that check.

[Frencois]

Zeroth is right.

By the rule "before you act" is a sub-step that exists only during exploration, between the "may evade" moment and the "making the check" one.

If you could play it any other time, it would say something like "at the start of your turn", "before your first exploration", "before your move step", or whatever, but definitively not "before you act" which is an exploration-reserved sub-step.

Mostly Seelah will indeed use this power if the card says something like "before you act succeed at whatever check for whatever reason". Or if for example someone else was playing a card (e. g. a spell) or power that can be played at that tile and that would require you to roll a dice.

[Andrew L Klein]

Yea I'm with the others. I think saying that you can use it on any part of the encounter just because it has a Before You Act is quite a stretch, it seems pretty clear to me that it applies only to Before You Act checks.

[Tracker1]

After getting a chance to look at her card, i guess i'll have to agree. Oh well, it was great while it lasted.

[ryanshowseason2]

I'll admit when I first read the power I was similarly confused and assumed it meant she could substitute charisma for any check.

But then my common sense started tingling.

That would be an overpowered mess and couldn't possibly be what was intended or even if it was I'd house-rule the $%@! out of it.

I'm not sure how anyone would think that was balanced. O_o

I read it wrong as well but it should be as obvious that the interpretation is wrong. As obvious as to a blind man being told that the moon is full, bright and plainly visible... during a thunderstorm.

[Ashram316]

I also had to do a double take when I read the card for the first time.

Would it be less confusing if the sentence structure was reversed?

"You may use your Charisma skill instead of any listed skill when you attempt a check before you act."

[Keith Richmond]

Maybe quotes would make it pop out more as its own thing?

For a 'Before you act' check, you may use your Charisma instead of any listed skill.

[Ashram316]

I like that.

You could also say something like "When making a check during the "Before you act" step, you may use your Charisma skill instead of any listed skill."

[Dave Riley]

Since it comes at the beginning of a sentence on a monster card, the capitalized "Before" gives it a little more pop. I always parse it as "Before You Act" with lends it a little more weight in my head as a codified game mechanic and not just a general instruction.