FAQ: Unchained VMC Clarification Request - "Extra" feats / Travel / Protection Domains


Rules Questions


Hey, I'm writing a guide on Variant Multiclassing options and I have a few questions to properly evaluate some VMCs:

1) The Oracle and the Witch never qualify for Extra Revelation and Extra Hex, respectively.. Does the Barbarian qualify for Extra Rage Power or Extra Rage? Does the Bard for Extra Performance? Does the Cleric for Extra Channel? Does the Paladin for Extra Mercy or
Extra Lay on Hands? Does the Alchemist for Extra Bombs? Does the Magus for Extra Arcane Pool or Extra Arcana?

The way my intuition tells me this works is:

- If it increases uses, rounds per day and such, it works. Extra Rage as an example.

- If it increases electable features, it doesn't. Extra Arcana and Extra Rage Power as an example.

Please confirm either way or if the only ones limited are the Oracle and the Witch.

2) Cleric VMC says you gain the 1st level powers of your domain... Does this include the bonus speed of the Travel Domain or the resistance bonus of the Protection Domain? I could see how the first may seem like an extra luxury, but the latter is actual integral to the Protection Domain powers.


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Given that Witch and Oracle VMC needed to explicitly negate the use of the Extra feats, all the others can apply instead.

Most notably Extra Rage Power and Extra Magus Arcana are allowed.


My line of thinking is that the intent was to explicitly negate all of them but they only remembered to add that line to the Oracle and the Witch.

I'd really like official word on this.


Secret Wizard wrote:

My line of thinking is that the intent was to explicitly negate all of them but they only remembered to add that line to the Oracle and the Witch.

I'd really like official word on this.

You're reading more than there's written.

As far as the Extra feats are concerned, you do meet the prerequisites.
And this is why an explicit statement of exception is needed.

For the hexes it's most likely because some like healing and slumber are already powerful additions, and especially because there would be a weird interaction on how is calculated the witch level for the hexes (the first hex is treated as level 1 bu when you gain the second the former is "promoted" to level 8)

Rage powers and Arcanas run on already limited source anyway (Rounds of Rage, Arcane Pool) so it's not op giving up even more feats on those features.


Cross-posting from another thread:

That's not really an error. Pazio just decided there were balance and/or logistic issues with that (presumably related to the effective Witch/Oracle level of those). They've done that before with the Primalist Bloodrager, but the Primalist's existence doesn't mean that every archetype that grants Hexes needs to say "you can take Extra Hex". Those two are creating a specific rule that doesn't affect or override the general.


There's no specific reason to prevent Oracles from picking Extra Revelation other than power level issues.

I can imagine the same being in play with Rage Powers and Arcana.

This is why I want official word.

Quote:
Rage powers and Arcanas run on already limited source anyway (Rounds of Rage, Arcane Pool) so it's not op giving up even more feats on those features.

Rage? Sure.

Arcanas...? Not really. Maneuver Mastery, Spell Trickery, Spell Blending, Metamagic Arcanas, etc., they don't need a single point of your pool.


Secret Wizard wrote:
There's no specific reason to prevent Oracles from picking Extra Revelation other than power level issues.

Logistical issues-- when you take Extra Revelation, is it scaled to your level? Your level -6? And yes, balance issues-- note how the Oracle already has a stunted set of revelation options, and the Oracle has a lot of tricks that aren't overly level-dependent anyway. The Barbarian also has a big bag of tricks, but its tricks almost unilaterally are level dependent, and the VMC is locked out of most of them anyway. 1/2 level on Barbarian does a much better job of dealing with trouble than level-6 on Oracle.

*Shrug* That said, it's still the same as the Primalist. The existence of an archetype that grants Rage Powers and then says "you don't qualify for the Extra Rage Power feat" does not mean that the Hexcrafter doesn't qualify for Extra Hex, or better that the Viking can't take Extra Rage Power. You're trying to draw a general rule out of a specific, which is pretty much the opposite of how that works.


This is not scientific thinking.

This is simply understanding there was some editorial guideline applied to two VMCs that wasn't applied to two others.

There is a good (I'd say over 25%) that this was not intentional. It's a book, and while wildly better edited than the ACG, it might have some flaws.

Quote:
Logistical issues-- when you take Extra Revelation, is it scaled to your level? Your level -6?

Yes? It says so right there. There's literally nothing that could make it more confusing than the Rage Power VMC feature, which has 1/2 to qualify and full to calculate effects.

To summarize: I consider my arguments compelling reasons to merit this question.

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