Optimizing a Bad Touch Cleric - Help!


Advice

Liberty's Edge

So, I'm a big fan of the Cleric class and I've wanted to create a bad touch or negative channeler for quite a while now. I've been messing with builds and ideas and could use some help / suggestions on the following.

*NOTES: This is for PFS! Also, I have credit saved to start out at 6th level, so having issues between levels 1-5 is not a concern for me.

The build!:

Class – Cleric
Race – Human
Alignment - Neutral
Deity – Urgathoa

Domains:
* Undeath [Death subdomain]
* Blood [War subdomain]

HUMAN
Stats -
Str: 10
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 7 (-2 racial)
Wis: 16
Cha: 17 (+2 racial)

1) Cleric 1: Bab +1, Selective Channel (lvl 1), Fey Foundling (human)
2) Cleric 2: Bab +2,
3) Cleric 3: Bab +2, Channel Smite (lvl 3)
4) Cleric 4: Bab +3, +1 Cha
5) Cleric 5: Bab +4, Guided Hand (lvl 5)
6) Cleric 6: Bab +5,
7) Cleric 7: Bab +5, Shatter Resolve (lvl 7)
8) Cleric 8: Bab +6/+1, +1 Wis
9) Cleric 9: Bab +7/+2, Command Undead (lvl 9)
10) Cleric 10: Bab +8/+3
11) Cleric 11: Bab +8/+3, Divine Interference (lvl 11)
12) Cleric 12: Bab +9/+4, +1 Wis
--------------------

After messing with feats for a while I decided to throw in Channel Smite & Guided Hand to use my Wis bonus to hit with a scythe. This seems to be a better way to load massive damage onto my target of choice. Using Divine Favor & Guided Hand my to hit bonus is pretty decent, I'd be using a Spell Storing scythe to store spells like Inflict Wounds, Slay Living, and Harm. I also have the option to activate Channel Smite to add my negative channel dice to the attack.

I could have went with Quick Channel, Improved Channel, & Extra Channel but it seems channels are limited and its effectiveness falls off at levels 9+ (or so). I'm considering Potion Glutton as a feat since I could heal myself as a swift action with a Chalice (from adventure's armory) at level 8+.

For a headband, I'll be using a +Wis headband unless convinced otherwise....my other option is starting with 17 Wis and 16 Cha and adding lvl 4,8, & 12 stat bonuses to Wis and taking a Negative Channeling Phylactery or +4 Charisma headband.

One of my main concerns is my defenses and survival/hp. Any thoughts or suggestions would be most helpful!

-----
P.S. - Example attack at lvl 9.
Weapon: +1 Spell Storing Scythe
To-Hit Bonus: +16 [7 base + 4 Divine Favor w/ Fate's Favored + 4wis mod + 1 scythe]
Dmg: 2d4+5 + Channel Smite [5d6, save for half] + Slay Living [12d6+9 or 3d6+9 on a save]

Liberty's Edge

Suggestions on stats and ways to shore up my defense would be appreciated!


Can't be neutral, have to be Chaotic Neutral.

I recommend Spell Focus Necromancy and its greater, otherwise all your bad touch spells may not land a decent hit.

In fact I would worry more about that and not invest that much into CHA.

Also what's up with your stats? You have a -2 INT? How?

Also, your to-hit is going to suck for a long time, I recommend getting channel smite and guided hand at first level.

stats:

10 14 14 8 16 12

bump your WIS to 18 with racial bonus.

Feats: Channel Smite, Guided Hand.

If you care less about defense (and you shouldn't) swap DEX and CHA.

That said, this still isn't optimal, because you are a slave to the action system, and your damage still isn't that great for using a two handed weapon. You will run out of spells and channels, and quickly, and your damage is going to suck.

Liberty's Edge

master_marshmallow wrote:

Can't be neutral, have to be Chaotic Neutral.

I recommend Spell Focus Necromancy and its greater, otherwise all your bad touch spells may not land a decent hit.

In fact I would worry more about that and not invest that much into CHA.

Also what's up with your stats? You have a -2 INT? How?

Also, your to-hit is going to suck for a long time, I recommend getting channel smite and guided hand at first level.

stats:

10 14 14 8 16 12

bump your WIS to 18 with racial bonus.

Feats: Channel Smite, Guided Hand.

If you care less about defense (and you shouldn't) swap DEX and CHA.

That said, this still isn't optimal, because you are a slave to the action system, and your damage still isn't that great for using a two handed weapon. You will run out of spells and channels, and quickly, and your damage is going to suck.

Thanks for the catch on the alignment. You can dump a stat down to 7 in PFS, there's no difference in skill point gain between 7 and 8 and being Human will give +1 skill point a level.

I'm not sure about dumping Charisma though, too low and everyone will succeed their will save for half dmg and not be shaken. It'll reduce my channels per day which are free heals also. At 9th level I'm able to damage others and myself (which converts to healing me because of Death's Embrace) for 5d6 (5d6+10 heal to me because of Fey Foundling).

Damage shouldn't be that bad though. 9th level I have 5 1st, 5 2nd, 4 3rd, 2 4th, and 2 5th. Not including +1 domain spell for each. 4th level Inflict Spells I'm doing 4d8+9, 5th level Slay Living is 12d6+9, and once I get 6th level spells I can use Harm which would be 110dmg or 55dmg on a save. The 2handed weapon just adds 2d4+5 to that, or more if I get it enchanted higher than a +1 Spell Storing Scythe.

Quick Channel would allow me to throw a channel out as a move action though, which still having my standard to cast spells. But that's another feat in my crowded list of options.


Kyoko Hitomu wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

Can't be neutral, have to be Chaotic Neutral.

I recommend Spell Focus Necromancy and its greater, otherwise all your bad touch spells may not land a decent hit.

In fact I would worry more about that and not invest that much into CHA.

Also what's up with your stats? You have a -2 INT? How?

Also, your to-hit is going to suck for a long time, I recommend getting channel smite and guided hand at first level.

stats:

10 14 14 8 16 12

bump your WIS to 18 with racial bonus.

Feats: Channel Smite, Guided Hand.

If you care less about defense (and you shouldn't) swap DEX and CHA.

That said, this still isn't optimal, because you are a slave to the action system, and your damage still isn't that great for using a two handed weapon. You will run out of spells and channels, and quickly, and your damage is going to suck.

Thanks for the catch on the alignment. You can dump a stat down to 7 in PFS, there's no difference in skill point gain between 7 and 8 and being Human will give +1 skill point a level.

I'm not sure about dumping Charisma though, too low and everyone will succeed their will save for half dmg and not be shaken. It'll reduce my channels per day which are free heals also. At 9th level I'm able to damage others and myself (which converts to healing me because of Death's Embrace) for 5d6 (5d6+10 heal to me because of Fey Foundling).

Damage shouldn't be that bad though. 9th level I have 5 1st, 5 2nd, 4 3rd, 2 4th, and 2 5th. Not including +1 domain spell for each. 4th level Inflict Spells I'm doing 4d8+9, 5th level Slay Living is 12d6+9, and once I get 6th level spells I can use Harm which would be 110dmg or 55dmg on a save. The 2handed weapon just adds 2d4+5 to that, or more if I get it enchanted higher than a +1 Spell Storing Scythe.

Quick Channel would allow me to throw a channel out as a move action though, which still having my standard to cast spells. But that's another feat in my crowded list of options.

You gotta make it past first level before you can do any of that stuff.

You can invest into CHA more, sure. But your channels won't heal anything but undead.

Not sure if Necromatic Affinity is legal in PFS, might be worth checking out for this.

Liberty's Edge

master_marshmallow wrote:
Kyoko Hitomu wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

Can't be neutral, have to be Chaotic Neutral.

I recommend Spell Focus Necromancy and its greater, otherwise all your bad touch spells may not land a decent hit.

In fact I would worry more about that and not invest that much into CHA.

Also what's up with your stats? You have a -2 INT? How?

Also, your to-hit is going to suck for a long time, I recommend getting channel smite and guided hand at first level.

stats:

10 14 14 8 16 12

bump your WIS to 18 with racial bonus.

Feats: Channel Smite, Guided Hand.

If you care less about defense (and you shouldn't) swap DEX and CHA.

That said, this still isn't optimal, because you are a slave to the action system, and your damage still isn't that great for using a two handed weapon. You will run out of spells and channels, and quickly, and your damage is going to suck.

Thanks for the catch on the alignment. You can dump a stat down to 7 in PFS, there's no difference in skill point gain between 7 and 8 and being Human will give +1 skill point a level.

I'm not sure about dumping Charisma though, too low and everyone will succeed their will save for half dmg and not be shaken. It'll reduce my channels per day which are free heals also. At 9th level I'm able to damage others and myself (which converts to healing me because of Death's Embrace) for 5d6 (5d6+10 heal to me because of Fey Foundling).

Damage shouldn't be that bad though. 9th level I have 5 1st, 5 2nd, 4 3rd, 2 4th, and 2 5th. Not including +1 domain spell for each. 4th level Inflict Spells I'm doing 4d8+9, 5th level Slay Living is 12d6+9, and once I get 6th level spells I can use Harm which would be 110dmg or 55dmg on a save. The 2handed weapon just adds 2d4+5 to that, or more if I get it enchanted higher than a +1 Spell Storing Scythe.

Quick Channel would allow me to throw a channel out as a move action though, which still having my standard to cast spells. But that's another feat in my crowded

...

I have enough credit saved to start out at 6th level fortunately. Channels will heal myself (Death's Embrace works differently than Dhampir's racial, if I'm the target of Negative Energy channel then I heal damage instead of taking the damage. It's the 8th level Death domain ability.) and I can touch others with Death's Kiss since I'm going with the Undead subdomain and then channel to heal them along with me. I should have about 8+ uses of Death's Kiss per day.

Liberty's Edge

*Bump* Any more suggestions for stats or shoring up defense (AC/HP) or anything else?


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Okay Number One this is not a bad touch cleric. A bad touch cleric does not use weapons.

If you want to be a kick ass bad touch cleric you first of all need to understand your role. Your role is to shut down the opponent, not kill him. You can kill, but that is secondary to making him useless.

If you want to be human that's fine, but change deities take Lamashtu. Take the domains trickery and madness. trickery gives you geat boosts to defenses that you can use many times per day, and great defensive spells, such as invisibility. Madness gives you touch of madness which is great because it just gets better over time, and there is no save. Use it offensively and you give the thing +half your level to skills (which is mostly useless in combat) and -half your level in attacks and saves for 3 rounds no save. The spells are good too.

Get yourself a amulet of mighty fists that has spell storing, it's great for you.

Alright stats:

Str 10 dex 15 con 14 int 7(since you seem to want to dump it) wis 18(racial +2) cha 12

There is no racial -2 to intelligence. That makes no sense. You only refer to reducing a stat as racial if it comes from your race. This does not. It's not a racial dump.

You get two traits: Favored of the society (+1 channel per day) Magical lineage (bestow curse)

Feats: 1 weapon finesse, channel smite
3 extra channel
5 heighten spell
7 Preferred spell (bestow curse)
9 persistent spell
11 spell penetration

Or if you prefer
1 weapon finesse, channel smite
3 extra channel
5 spell penetration
7 persistent spell
9 greater spell penetration
11 divine interference

The first set of feats makes you more versitile as you do not need to prepare your go to spell (bestow curse) so you can more readily prepare utility spells that normally would waste slots.

The second makes you stronger offensively and later defensively, but less versatile.

In combat you can do a lot you can curse enemies with bestow curse (which next to nothing is immune and is a nasty spell) and the ememies will have to save twice to not get cursed because of persistent spell and of course will also need to deal with your touch of madness. And if you need to you can add a little damage with channel smite.

You hit with ease because you target touch ac and you have a decent bab and attack stat.

You are hard to put down thanks to your decent AC and hp and trickery power.

THe only thing you do not do is regular damage against enemies that don't matter. Usually your role is over in a round or two when important enemies are no longer a real threat thanks to you, and are easily taken out thanks to your efforts.

Put your favored class bonus towards the human specific bonus, it's really good for you. Remember that touch of madness is a spell like, but channel is not so spell resist only applies to the first.

Get a belt of dex and con, and get a headband of wis +6 as soon as possible, then get a ioun stone of cha +2 (keep it in a wayfinder to keep it safe. Get a decent breastplate and make it mythral, get a mythral buckler, give them both some enhancement bonuses, but not too much. Get a +1 or +2 ring of deflection. Now with your remaining cash get pearls of power, including level 3 for extra bestow curses.

Hope this helps.

Get a masterwork falchion foe when there is moping up to do, or a finessable simple weapon.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I thought this was a thread about priests and altar boys....

Liberty's Edge

Honestly I think my to-hit bonus with a Scythe using Guided Hand & Divine Favor should make attacks connect often enough. I'm set on being a Cleric of Urgathoa though, Shatter Resolve gives everyone Shaken (-2atk, -2saves for # of rounds = to dice rolled) on anyone that fails the save. That's a pretty good aoe debuff + damage.

With Blood domain I have a good selection of domain spells to choose from (Vampiric Touch 3rd, Wall of Thorns 5th, Blade Barrier 6th) and Undead domain gives Ghoul touch 2nd, and Enervation 4th. Dex is pretty useful but I feel that it's spreading me out too thin and I really want to make use of Shatter Resolve and Death's Embrace + Fey Foundling.

I really only settled on Blood domain due to Vampiric Touch, Wall of Thorns, and Blade Barrier. I wasn't seeing much else available to Urgathoa that looked really great.

I'm curious how to really boost my AC, or if there's any sly ways to use Cleric spells to increase my defense.

Liberty's Edge

So is it PFS legal to Channel Smite with a touch attack? Like Inflict Wounds touch attack vs AC and using a Channel Smite with it? If so, then I'll probably skip the Guided Hand feat and take Weapon Finesse.


Not sure touch attacks are a melee attack roll... couldn't say either way, I'd lean towards not.

I also recommend HEARTILY against Weapon Finesse. You might as well get Heavy Armor Proficiency and pump your Strength, so you can also deal damage while keeping good AC.

Liberty's Edge

It's tempting to take Heavy Armor Proficiency but as you can see, my feat selection is crowded already and I'm missing Potion Glutton which I'd love to have. I need some way to deliver attacks so either Weapon Finesse and moderate (14'ish) Dex or Guided Hand (using Wis as +atk) to make regular attacks with a Spell Storing Scythe.

Sczarni

You will have problems in delivering your spells with 10 Str and 12 Dex. It wouldn't hurt to improve Str to 12 or even 14 because being a bad touch cleric, sometimes you might resort to melee if necessary. Taking Combat Casting should be also priority if you are melee focused.

You should also choose between being a channeler or casting cleric. If you wish to channel, Wis 14, Cha 18 would be good pick. If you wish to simply deliver spells, Wis 18, Cha 12 would be a good pick. You cannot have both without gimping yourself heavily. At least, that's my suggestion.

Adam


Kyoko Hitomu wrote:

It's tempting to take Heavy Armor Proficiency but as you can see, my feat selection is crowded already and I'm missing Potion Glutton which I'd love to have. I need some way to deliver attacks so either Weapon Finesse and moderate (14'ish) Dex or Guided Hand (using Wis as +atk) to make regular attacks with a Spell Storing Scythe. [/QUOTE

Im saying you dont take Weapon Finesse, that you boost your Strength over your Dex, and take Heavy Armor Prof.

Shadow Lodge

I'd drop fey founding for heavy armor prof. I think +3 AC is much better than a slight healing boost to yourself. Otherwise, guided hand, max out wisdom, channel smite, you're good to go. Or you could drop most of the channel feats and just focus on hitting things with the channel smite. It would take a 20 charisma to be able to exclude your entire party from negative channeling and thats assuming no pets. So I'm not sure it's even worth going that route. Mechanicaly you'd be better off with a deity that gives a one handed weapon so you can use a shield as your 10 strength isn't giving you any benefit for using a two hander. You don't need weapon finesse or higher strength or dex, you're using guided hand to hit with melee, and you are a full caster with high casting stat so the melee is just gravy on the side anyway.

Liberty's Edge

Am I able to get by with a 18 Charisma (+2 racial added) & 15 Wisdom? Other stats being 10str, 12dex, 14con, 7int. 18 Charisma would let me exclude 4 people, or 22 with Eagle's Splendor for PFS groups that have more than 5 players (including myself). That would let me start with a 15 Wisdom and add lvl 4, 8, & 12 stat bonuses to Wisdom, also getting a +4 Wisdom headband for a total of 22 Wisdom at 12th. That's 2 less than if I started with an 18 Wisdom. I can grab a +2charisma ioun stone later.

People forget about Eagle's Splendor but it's a great boost for a negative channeler. I could fit the Potion Glutton feat in to use an Eagle's Splendor potion as a swift and have my Standard & Move actions still on that turn. Or I could put a Negative Channel into an Unhallowed Chalic (Adventure's Armory) and essentially have a free healing potion available as a swift action.

I'm debating on Channel Smite and Guided Hand though. The idea of wielding and attacking with a Scythe seems really cool. The ability to deliver a Touch Spell + Channel Smite may not be allowed at every table for PFS, but with a Spell Storing weapon + Channel Smite I know no one would have an issue. I'm wondering what Feats I should get rid of though. Quick Channel would be somewhat nice to have.

Scarab Sages

Actually, for the alignment, you have to be neutral. Urgathoa is NE, the only legal PFS alignment to worship her is TN.

This is legal, as the no TN Clerics unless you worship a TN Deity was a 3.5 rule that was dropped in Pathfinder.

Shadow Lodge

I think you'll be happier with the character if you choose to focus on one or the other. Choose either channel smite or channeling normally as your focus. With channel smite, you don't need the high charisma, can focus on high wisdom to hit with guided hand and make your spellcasting DCs harder. For channeling you can focus on high charisma, channel feats, and spending a lot of money of a phylactry of neg channeling instead of on weapon enhancements.

Liberty's Edge

Ok, well I'd rather be focused on Bad Touch than Channeling. Changed stuff around on the build to reflect that better. Should I go with Spell Focus: Necromancy or Additional Traits (Magical Lineage & Wayang Spellhunter)? Anything else that I'm missing or that would be really useful?

Revised Bad Touch Cleric:

Class – Cleric
Race – Human
Favored Class – Cleric
Alignment - True Neutral
Deity – Urgathoa

Traits -
* Fate’s Favored [faith]
* Combat Reflexes [combat]

Domains:
* Undeath [Death subdomain]
* Blood [War subdomain]

HUMAN
Stats -
Str: 10
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 7 (-2 racial)
Wis: 20
Cha: 10 (+2 racial)

1) Cleric 1: Bab +1, Heavy Armor Prof (lvl 1), Fey Foundling (Human)
2) Cleric 2: Bab +2,
3) Cleric 3: Bab +2, Channel Smite (lvl 3)
4) Cleric 4: Bab +3, +1 Wis
5) Cleric 5: Bab +4, Guided Hand (lvl 5)
6) Cleric 6: Bab +5,
7) Cleric 7: Bab +5, Potion Glutton (lvl 7)
8) Cleric 8: Bab +6/+1, +1 Wis
9) Cleric 9: Bab +7/+2, Spell Focus: Necromancy (lvl 9)
10) Cleric 10: Bab +8/+3
11) Cleric 11: Bab +8/+3, Divine Interference (lvl 11)
12) Cleric 12: Bab +9/+4, +1 Wis
--------------


You can't pick both. They are both Magic traits.

Scarab Sages

Secret Wizard wrote:
You can't pick both. They are both Magic traits.

Actually, they are not.

Magical Lineage is Magic, Wayang Spellhunter is regional.

Liberty's Edge

No issues with the traits, I guess Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter would be pointless without a Metamagic feat though.

Any thoughts or suggestions on the new build?

Scarab Sages

I'm not sure I would take Heavy Armor Prof with a 10 STR. Even with Mithral, you will be at Max encumbrance.

Liberty's Edge

Imbicatus wrote:
I'm not sure I would take Heavy Armor Prof with a 10 STR. Even with Mithral, you will be at Max encumbrance.

Max Encumbrance is 100 with a 10str. Platemail is 50lbs, sure my carry weight would be in Medium or Heavy Load all the time but it's definitely not max. I'd have a -5 ACP with Masterwork Full Plate and Medium Load or -6 ACP if I was in Heavy Load. Other than that, it's not too bad. I could maybe raise Str to 11 or 12 though.

Dark Archive

My only thought is I love Set for Bad Touch. Vision of Madness is just amazing.

+1/2 cleric level (minimum 1) to your choice of Skills, Attack Rolls, or Saving Throws (choose Skils)
-1/2 cleric level (minimum 1) to the other 2.

No Saves!

So at level 10, that is -5 to saves and attack rolls, +5 to skills.

Likewise, you can increase your friends saves v. disease and poison when out of combat by 5, lowering her attack roll (no big, not in combat) and skills (not likely to be making skill checks.

Liberty's Edge

Ok, I think I'm wanting to make a couple changes here and go with Fumeiyoshi as the cleric's deity. Naginata = Reach, which helps with my action economy of using Spell Storing on my weapon.

Cleric of Fumeiyoshi:

Class – Cleric
Race – Human
Alignment - True Neutral
Deity – Fumeiyoshi

Domains:
* Undeath [Death subdomain]
* Tactics [War subdomain]

HUMAN
Stats -
Str: 12
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 7
Wis: 19 (+2 racial)
Cha: 12

1) Cleric 1: Bab +1, Channel Smite (lvl 1), Fey Foundling (human)
2) Cleric 2: Bab +2,
3) Cleric 3: Bab +2, Guided Hand (lvl 3)
4) Cleric 4: Bab +3, +1 Wis
5) Cleric 5: Bab +4, Combat Reflexes (lvl 5)
6) Cleric 6: Bab +5,
7) Cleric 7: Bab +5, Spell Focus: Necromancy (lvl 7)
8) Cleric 8: Bab +6/+1, +1 Wis
9) Cleric 9: Bab +7/+2, FREE (lvl 9)
10) Cleric 10: Bab +8/+3
11) Cleric 11: Bab +8/+3, Divine Interference (lvl 11)
12) Cleric 12: Bab +9/+4, +1 Wis
---------------

My question is: Should I go with Greater Spell Focus Necromancy, Spell Penetration, Varisian Tattoo: Necromancy, or something else for my 9th level feat? MVarisian Tattoo would up my dmg by +1 on most of my Necromancy spells since they usually give +dmg equal to CL. y save DC's should be pretty high but I'm thinking Spell Resistance could really hurt me since most of my spells are vulnerable to SR.

Offensive Cleric Spells that need to beat SR:

Inflict Wounds, Blindness/Deafness, Bestow Curse, Searing Light, Poison, Slay Living, Blade Barrier, Harm, Undeath to Death, Cold Ice Strike, and Boneshatter. Maybe a few more but those are the main ones that I know of.

Really lost on what feats I should grab for 7th and 9th. I'm also not sure on what trait to take besides Fate's Favored, Tactics domain's powers let me roll initiative twice and take the higher result so Combat Reflexes may not be as useful?

Liberty's Edge

*Bump*

Scarab Sages

I'd keep combat reflexes on a reach build. Even with rolling twice, you have a low init modifier, and more importantly, with a 14 dex you get 3 AoOs a round vs 1.

Liberty's Edge

*Forehead slap* Sorry, I meant "Should I keep the Reactionary trait since I get to roll initiative twice anyways." I definitely want to keep Combat Reflexes. Just not sure what my 7th and 9th level feats should be and what my 1 trait should be if I get rid of Reactionary. Open for suggestions. :)

Liberty's Edge

If taking the Separatist archetype for a Cleric of Urgathoa, what secondary domain would be best? It would cost me a feat to regain proficiency with a Scythe but I wouldn't be stuck with Blood domain, which appears to be 2nd best domain associated to Urgathoa.

The domain would be at -2 Cleric levels but I'm thinking maybe Tactics and Madness are the two best options? Which is better?

Primary Domain: Undead
Secondary Domain: Tactics or Madness at -2 Cleric level

Also, are there any better domains for a build like this (bad touch cleric)? Being able to pick almost any 2nd domain with Separatist what would you pick?


Madness is probably stronger, but Tactics is nice if there's a particular ally who needs to go early in the initiative (i.e. the rogue). Madness has more of a 'bad touch' theme.

Liberty's Edge

Trekkie90909 wrote:
Madness is probably stronger, but Tactics is nice if there's a particular ally who needs to go early in the initiative (i.e. the rogue). Madness has more of a 'bad touch' theme.

But is Madness better at a -2 Cleric level penalty? That's -1 from the madness touch penalty (Example: Level 10 Cleric uses "Vision of Madness" on an enemy and they receive a -4 penalty to 2 options and +4 bonus to 1 option instead of -5 and +5 due to the -2 cleric level penalty from Seperatist.)

The Tactics domain's ability "Seize the Initiative" really isn't affected by the -2 Cleric level penalty.

Tactics would allow me to go first a LOT more....but starting out at 6th level here with the saved PFS credit I have my Vision of Madness touch ability will do a -2/+2 debuff/buff. I guess Vision of Madness is also effective to buff one's self in combat (Atk or Saves, RISKY though) or even out of combat (Bonus to skill checks like knowledge & etc).

They both seem pretty good. Anyone else care to advise?

Liberty's Edge

It seems legal, but if the Wolf domain is able to be chosen as a Separatist then free Improved Trip feat & Pack Tactics would be incredible since the Scythe has the Trip feature and Pack Tactics would allow you to use your Wis mod instead of a +2 bonus when flanking, that's somewhere around a +6 to +7 attack bonus when flanking. With a Spell Storing scythe I should be able to Trip & deliver the stored spell once I confirm a hit also.

Maybe the Wolf domain is the best option?


To the best of my knowledge the Druid Animal and Terrain Domains are a Druid class feature unavailable to clerics (Separatist or not). Madness is definitely hit harder than the other two by the level penalty (are there any feats/traits to increase effective cleric level?) that said it's also stronger than tactics and I don't think the penalties are large enough to swing it in tactic's favor. Wolf would be strong if it were an option.

Liberty's Edge

Trekkie90909 wrote:
To the best of my knowledge the Druid Animal and Terrain Domains are a Druid class feature unavailable to clerics (Separatist or not). Madness is definitely hit harder than the other two by the level penalty (are there any feats/traits to increase effective cleric level?) that said it's also stronger than tactics and I don't think the penalties are large enough to swing it in tactic's favor. Wolf would be strong if it were an option.

Yeah, Wolf was mainly what I was looking at. The free Improved Trip and the 3rd level trip as a swift action + other buffs made it look like a strong pick. If it is legal, a +7 or so flank bonus would be really great also. From the wording I don't really see anything that restricts it as Separatist says any domain that's not on the deity's list. The Separatist is supposed to be "different" or "heretical" anyways by having a domain that their deity wouldn't normally have.

Anyways, after messing with the build in favor of the Wolf domain I realized I was getting further away from my original concept and that Separatist is slightly hurting that also. I think I'm going to stick with the Undead and Blood domain. Blood domain offers some pretty useful domain spell choices (1 Magic Weapon, 2 Spiritual Weapon, 3 Vampiric Touch, 4 Divine Power, 5 Wall of Thorns, 6 Blade Barrier, 7 Mass Inflict Serious Wounds, 8 Power Word Stun, and 9 Power Word Kill). The domain abilities really suck but I kinda of feel like the 5th and 6th wall spells are worth it for the battlefield control.

My Feat Plan atm is:
1) Channel Smite
Human) Fey Foundling
3) Guided Hand
5) Potion Glutton
7) Spell Focus: Necromancy
9) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
11) Divine Interference

Since I plan on playing this character in PFS arcs past 12th level I'm kind of tempted to pick 3 metamagic feats by 13th level so I could qualify for Spell Perfection at 15th. It would probably cost me my Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus feats though.

Any suggestions with the Feats?


The Chalice + Potion Gluttony combo is pretty hard on the action economy. It'd be a move action to retrieve the chalice, standard to charge it, and swift to consume then either a move action to store the chalice or drop it the next round. Unfortunately short of playing a Dhampir it seems to be the best healing work around for a negative energy channeling cleric. I'd just make sure you have a few spare chalices.

Liberty's Edge

Trekkie90909 wrote:
The Chalice + Potion Gluttony combo is pretty hard on the action economy. It'd be a move action to retrieve the chalice, standard to charge it, and swift to consume then either a move action to store the chalice or drop it the next round. Unfortunately short of playing a Dhampir it seems to be the best healing work around for a negative energy channeling cleric. I'd just make sure you have a few spare chalices.

Actually you can charge it prior in the day as the Negative Energy has full effect for 24 hours in the water within the Chalice. You could even buy multiple Chalices (like 3-4) and Channel into each of them, store them in a Handy Haversack, and when you really need healing just use a move to retrieve and swift to consume. This would work a LOT better with Fey Foundling, but either way it's like having free Cure Wounds potions that scale with level.

You're right though, the Hallowed Chalices from Adventure's Armory & Death's Kiss ability from the Undead subdomain are the two best ways....unless your a Cleric of Urgathoa and have the Pallid Crystal necklace on which converts healing & inflict spells to heal the wearer, so long as the wearer is a worshiper of Urgathoa.

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