High Stats Magus Advice Needed


Advice

Dark Archive

Hi, guys.

I'm looking for an advice for a Magus non-Dex build. I've rolled pretty high stats, but we rolled in order, so my stats look like this:

Strength 16
Dexterity 13
Constitution 16
Intelligence 17
Wisdom 16
Charisma 18

I've limited to Human, Dhampir, Tiefling and Half-Elf races and I'm starting the game with a proficiency with heavy cavalry saber, which is basically basket-hilted katana (d8/ 18-20x2).

Any thoughts?


Well if you want to have crazy AC you could take a level of Oracle for Charisma to AC, then take a level of Monk for Wis to AC, then go Kensai magus and get int to AC too. Get the trait that bumps your caster level up two and you magus casting will be at full str, even if you are a bit behind on the spell levels.
And for the stat's I'd suggest Human, Half-elf going to str or a Nosferatu-Born Dhampir

Dark Archive

That doesn't suit me thematically. And I want to play the Magus starting with 1st level :)


Start Kensai and then take the others ;)

Umm... Magus doesn't really have a way to make use of high wisdom or charisma, nothing is keyed off of it. At least wisdom has will saves. So just build a standard magus that could do social skills if you want. Sorry, but that's all I got.


Tiefling is one of, if not the, strongest Magus races. As a Str build you don't need Human's bonus feat, so Tiefling is your best bet.

Are you committed to the sabre? You'd frankly be better off with a rapier or estoc for a Str build.

What kind of spells do you want to focus on? Do you want to invest heavily in Spellstrike or just a little? Are traits on the table?

You're sitting one a wide-open class here. You have a ton of options, so we need more information.


Why would rapier and/or estoc be any better for str build than 1d8/18-20 weapon?

About build:
First: don't go kensai - it's a trap. Vanilla magus, hexcrafter and bladebound are much better, especially for str build.

Second: unfortunately, there is no use for high wis or cha unless you multiclass. Maximum you can get - good perception, UMD and will save. You can still invest in Diplomacy (especially if make it class skill).

Third: Tiefling is a great choice for Dex-based magus. For str magus it is still ok, but extra feat from human is probably better.


Fedorchik1536 wrote:
Why would rapier and/or estoc be any better for str build than 1d8/18-20 weapon?

Because Precise Strike is open to Magi, and I'll take +level to damage long before I take +1 damage. There are only two P 18-20/x2 weapons I can name, and that's them. The Dex Magus actually has a perversely wider range of good weapons, thanks to Slashing Grace.

Fedorchik1536 wrote:

About build:

First: don't go kensai - it's a trap. Vanilla magus, hexcrafter and bladebound are much better, especially for str build.

Kensai is a slow starter but obnoxiously good. From the mid-levels onward Kensai will consistently out-AC and out-maneuver a Magus in actual armor, beat out virtually everything short of Diviners and Divine Strategist in initiative (and in the long run it should beat at least Diviners too), crit more often (which is the Magus lifeblood), and it gets an actual capstone. Fewer spells per day is a drawback that gets negligible as you level, which leaves the only real pain at losing Spell Recall for the terrible Perfect Strike-- which bites, but isn't critical. It's probably not the best Magus archetype, but it's in the big four alongside baseline, Hexcrafter, and the walking nova that is the Beastblade.

Bladebound stacks with almost all Magus archetypes so it doesn't really fit on that list (I mean, technically Fiend Flayer is the absolute best archetype because you always take it if you qualify)... but it's mediocre anyway. You lose out on a number of very, very good weapon enhancements and the ability to pace your weapon at your own speed, plus a bunch of arcane pool points and your first arcana (meaning no extra arcana until 7th), for a bunch of really mediocre abilities. If any archetype is a trap, it's that one.

Fedorchik1536 wrote:
Third: Tiefling is a great choice for Dex-based magus. For str magus it is still ok, but extra feat from human is probably better.

For what feat?

Seriously. He has... literally zero required feats at level one. Half-Elf or Tiefling will go far further for him. Half-Elf has a better favored class bonus (gank Elf's), can shore up his skill list with Fey Thoughts (Perception as a class skill, alongside something else from a pretty wide range), and can either further buff a skill or grant another bonus to Will saves to laugh those off completely. Oh, and Paragon Surge is a thing Magi learn.

Tiefling opens up Fiend Flayer and has some extremely good racial feats-- Armor of the Pits and Grasping Tail are the two that immediately spring to mind. The +Dex isn't great here, but it's still +1 AC/initiative/Reflex.

Normally I'm quick to rank Human very highly for Magi, because Dex Magi really do need that first-level feat. Strength Magus? Wide open build, so you probably don't need the feat.


Nightflier, you defenitively seem to be going for Str magus. What kind of build do you want? Do you prefer a debuffing magus (the frostbite build, maybe combined with trip using wand wielder) or you want to go the damage dealing build (shocking grasp and/or enlarged/polymorph builds).


I'd suggest Kensai and Tiefling. The racial trait & feat for the natural armor bonus at first level and a haramaki or silken ceremonoal armor will boost your AC a bit, which you need starting off. Switch to a rapier or estoc.

Dark Archive

I'm probably going with primary damage-dealer in the party, but a party face as well. I can not change the weapon, since all party members start with a unique weapon designed by a GM, so I'm stuck with this saber. Traits are off the table, since we get to choose solely from the list of campaign traits designed for this game.

Precise Strike is out of the question, I'm afraid, since none of the other PCs can take it.

I'm thinking about taking Flamboyant Arcana at the 3rd level...


Ah. When I speak of Precise Strike, I mean the Swashbuckler deed, which is available to Magi via Arcane Deed (which you're already thinking about the pre-req for!)

As much as I hate to say it... you might want the whole Slashing Grace feat chain anyway, just to let you change the weapon to piercing. Or ask if you can take Weapon Versatility and have that count. Or just ask if you can change the Sabre to S and P (or S or P, either one).

Dark Archive

OK, but Precise Strike arcane deed forbids spell-combat, right?

Precise Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler.


That debate's been beaten to death, and the short answer is that there's no easy response.

On the one hand, Spell Combat functions like Two-Weapon Fighting. You are definitively using your off-hand to do something during that turn.

On the other hand, nobody's been able to ever explain to me how casting Haste is "attacking with a weapon". Worth talking to your GM about, but by the actual RAW of it... well, the only time you can ever really lay out a scenario where a Spell Combating Magus is making something that's definitively an attack with a weapon(-like spell) is if he casts a ray, or maybe another ranged touch spell if your GM goes by the 3.5 definition of weapon-like. Touch spells should never be delivered by the off-hand (and also require the 3.5 definition), nothing else can be construed as weapon-like.

Worth chatting with your GM about. If he doesn't like it there are other options, but primary-damage-dealer Magus is fading fast.

Liberty's Edge

These are a few tricks and stuff I picked up as I built my own Magus, hope it can be of use.

As I see it, you'll obviously use Strength when you hit and damage.
For lower levels (1->3) weild a Lucerne Hammer, ready actions towards your enemies, that way you'll gain trice the damage output of a rapier build during the first round of combat as the Lucerne Weapon deals +50% Strength damage, +100% weapon damage and you gain an AoO.
Then grab the rapier as you advance towards the next enemy or keep striking with the hammer.

The Tiefling is among others, a good race.. But the race Aasimar is perhaps even better as there are multiple stat choices (Angelblooded has +2strength & Cha, and it costs no feat-unlike Tieflings). The Cha-bonus works well with the Cha-based Magus Archetype. The racial traits are also epic.. (lesser Age resistance as a spell-like ability will buff your Int to 18.)
And the alternate racial trait 'Scion of Humanity' will make you count as a human race for feats, traits etc.

The hexcrafter archetype is amazing with the 'Flight' hex, allowing you to fly from level 5.
But the archetype loses 'Spell Recall' which could otherwise allow the magus to recast spells he used.

Apparently, not all are aware of it, but there is a weapon material specifically beneficial to a Magus. - The 'Wyroot' material.
It replenishes your 'Arcana Pool' as you crit and/or kill, but it will cost a swift action to make use of it properly. 'Spell recall' also costs a swift action, so the combo requires two rounds to be used.

There are almost too many good spells on the Magus's spell-list. I like Frostbite & Enlarge Person. Others like Shocking Grasp and Shield.
Try selecting one low-level melee touch spell you could use as a signature spell by buffing it up with a bunch of Metamagic feats and level-reducing traits so that the character can use spell recall to perhaps recast the Empowered Shocking Grasp every round!

Blasting Arcane spells in the face of the quick-dying targets tend to work as a great defense, remember...
What is dead, can't hurt you!


Don't Tieflings also have access to multiple stat choices?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
kestral287 wrote:

That debate's been beaten to death, and the short answer is that there's no easy response.

On the one hand, Spell Combat functions like Two-Weapon Fighting. You are definitively using your off-hand to do something during that turn.

On the other hand, nobody's been able to ever explain to me how casting Haste is "attacking with a weapon".

You answer it yourself. For the purposes of Spell-Combat, your spell is effectively your "off hand weapon" since that hand needs to be free for the casting part of spellcombat, even if the spell requires no somatic components.

Liberty's Edge

LazarX wrote:
kestral287 wrote:

That debate's been beaten to death, and the short answer is that there's no easy response.

On the one hand, Spell Combat functions like Two-Weapon Fighting. You are definitively using your off-hand to do something during that turn.

On the other hand, nobody's been able to ever explain to me how casting Haste is "attacking with a weapon".

You answer it yourself. For the purposes of Spell-Combat, your spell is effectively your "off hand weapon" since that hand needs to be free for the casting part of spellcombat, even if the spell requires no somatic components.

I really don't see that as "answering" it, he point is that nothing in spell-combat specifically calls it out as being a weapon, sure it alludes to TWF but that doesn't make it TWF. You've got the point of what's a weapon? But I'm not trying to bring that debate back up.


LazarX wrote:
kestral287 wrote:

That debate's been beaten to death, and the short answer is that there's no easy response.

On the one hand, Spell Combat functions like Two-Weapon Fighting. You are definitively using your off-hand to do something during that turn.

On the other hand, nobody's been able to ever explain to me how casting Haste is "attacking with a weapon".

You answer it yourself. For the purposes of Spell-Combat, your spell is effectively your "off hand weapon" since that hand needs to be free for the casting part of spellcombat, even if the spell requires no somatic components.

And when you can explain how casting Haste is "attacking with a weapon", I'll consider it answered. Until then, the debate's been beaten to death and bringing it back up isn't going to help anyone.

Kaouse wrote:
Don't Tieflings also have access to multiple stat choices?

They do, but barring Eldritch Scion none are distinctly better than the baseline. If he wanted Strength over Int, there's the Oni-Spawn-- +2 Str/Wis, -2 Cha, Alter Self as the SLA, and Disguise/Intimidate get bonuses.

Unlike Aasimar they do require a feat to get the alternate options, but that feat also lets them roll (three times, pick best) on a table full of options, and I think a lot of GMs would probably let you skip the feat cost if you just want one of the alternate options. That table's got some awesome stuff though, if you're feeling lucky (or the GM lets you pick). From experience, scoring +2 Int as a Magus is fun.


They don't need the feat, that has been changed.


Chess Pwn wrote:
They don't need the feat, that has been changed.

What feat was that? I've never heard of anything like that.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
nightflier wrote:

Hi, guys.

I'm looking for an advice for a Magus non-Dex build. I've rolled pretty high stats, but we rolled in order, so my stats look like this:

Strength 16
Dexterity 13
Constitution 16
Intelligence 17
Wisdom 16
Charisma 18

I've limited to Human, Dhampir, Tiefling and Half-Elf races and I'm starting the game with a proficiency with heavy cavalry saber, which is basically basket-hilted katana (d8/ 18-20x2).

Any thoughts?

Are you playing in Golarion? There's an Andoran trait which makes Diplomacy a class skill. If you have that Charisma you might as well make use of it for Diplomacy, and Use Magic Device.

Dark Archive

Angelkin Asimar in fact looks like an excellent choice for this character - and I mean storywise, not (just) mechanically.

BTW, does anyone know why Mage Armor is not on Magus spell-list?


nightflier wrote:

Angelkin Asimar in fact looks like an excellent choice for this character - and I mean storywise, not (just) mechanically.

BTW, does anyone know why Mage Armor is not on Magus spell-list?

Most likely because most of them can wear armor. (And Kensai get canny defense.)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
nightflier wrote:

Angelkin Asimar in fact looks like an excellent choice for this character - and I mean storywise, not (just) mechanically.

BTW, does anyone know why Mage Armor is not on Magus spell-list?

Because they get armor proficiency starting with light all the way up to heavy.

And for Kensai, it literally would be too good a spell for them.


Question about Arcane Deed: It never says that you use your Magus level as Swashbuckler level for anything. it only allows you to select deed from list that would be normally available for swashbuckler of your level. Was it ever adressed in FAQ or errata?
Just as Daring Champion never states that he uses his Cavalier level as Swashbuckler level.
This thing bothers me a lot.


Fedorchik1536 wrote:

Question about Arcane Deed: It never says that you use your Magus level as Swashbuckler level for anything. it only allows you to select deed from list that would be normally available for swashbuckler of your level. Was is ever adressed in FAQ or errata?

Just as Daring Champion never states that he uses his Cavalier level as Swashbuckler level.
This thing bothers me a lot.

It never got FAQ'd. I'm hoping it will be addressed when the re-written ACG gets released.


I would go with a versatile human getting int amd str +2 from the start. Use base magus or hex crafter and depending on your GM waste a few feats on getting slashing grace and precise strike on the cavalary saber that is a Nice scaling bonus to damage. If that dosent fly with your GM for what ever Reason just go with a standart str based build.
I personally like frostbite better than shocking grasp, going that Way Will save you some spells and keep you from being a Nova only guy.
Weapon focus, arcane strike and riving strike are good but not that good since you Will often have better things to do with your swift actions.
I Think the blade of mercy and the enforcer feat is a good addition amd with your High charisma is Will be well worth it.
Pump int at level 4 and then str all the rest of the Way. With arcane pool and two handing the saber you Will be ok damage wise vs. Mooks for the first few levels and then frostbite and pehaps precise strike or power attack Will make it amazing.


Fedorchik1536 wrote:

Question about Arcane Deed: It never says that you use your Magus level as Swashbuckler level for anything. it only allows you to select deed from list that would be normally available for swashbuckler of your level. Was it ever adressed in FAQ or errata?

Just as Daring Champion never states that he uses his Cavalier level as Swashbuckler level.
This thing bothers me a lot.

Never addressed. You either assume the abilities were made to work or you assume Pazio is trolling the hell out of us. This isn't a new thing really; the Hexcrafter has the same issue.

nightflier wrote:

Angelkin Asimar in fact looks like an excellent choice for this character - and I mean storywise, not (just) mechanically.

BTW, does anyone know why Mage Armor is not on Magus spell-list?

Useless for most Magi. The only ones who can use it are early-game Kensai, and even they'll stop eventually when they can get a +3 Haramaki.

Still kind of silly, but that's why. Spell Blending or a Wand will solve the issue though.

Out of curiosity, what level are you starting at?

Liberty's Edge

This needs to be mentioned; if you want to use 'Metamagic feats' in combination with touch spells while using 'spell combat', then avoid the Cha-Magus, as it casts spontaneously which will increase the casting time unless you pick up a specific feat (but then the character will be feat starved)


TorresGlitch wrote:
This needs to be mentioned; if you want to use 'Metamagic feats' in combination with touch spells while using 'spell combat', then avoid the Cha-Magus, as it casts spontaneously which will increase the casting time unless you pick up a specific feat (but then the character will be feat starved)

Strength Magus. He can actually afford that tax. But his Spellstrikes are going to suck anyway; he can't use the cost reducers that make the core Spellstrike tricks truly manageable.

Not that it makes the Scion a good choice unless he's starting at level 8+, but that at least isn't an issue for him.

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