Pathfinder / World of Warcraft RPG Conversion


Conversions


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I have been working on a conversion of the World of Warcraft RPG rules to Pathfinder rules and thought I'd share it with the community to get some (inevitable) critiques. Originally, I tried converting it to D&D4e to make it feel more familiar to the video game players, but I quickly realized it was more work than I wanted and slowly seemed like a bad idea. Instead, I figured I'd do something much more manageable and reskin it with Pathfinder. This is my first attempt at something like this, so don't expect it to be great or without error.

Pathfinder Warcraft RPG

Some notes:
I decided to do up my own custom built races since some of them simply had no obvious sibling in the Pathfinder World (take Warcraft's Gnome for example). When doing this, I realized I could basically do this for all races to better represent the Warcraft setting. It seemed more-or-less like a pre-defined Alternate Racial type for each one. I tried to flat-line everything at 12 RPs for the sake of balance since I'm new with creating races.

Originally, I was going try to translate the more unique classes (Shaman, Warlock, Priest) to Pathfinder equivalents, but the more I thought about it, the more I felt like sticking to the MMO's pre-defined classes wasn't a critical step in capturing the essence of Warcraft. Plus it seemed more fun to have greater class freedom. In the books, comics and else-where, you see characters that do not necessary fit the eight base classes of the games. How I justified it to myself was: I don't want to feel like I'm playing World of Warcraft, but that I'm playing in the world of Warcraft. That world will surely be populated with bards, sorcerers and witches and more that have never been played in the video games.

I created a Wizard archetype for the Warlock class using the abilities presented in the core rules for the WoW RPG that I felt could serve as a good alternative to the Summoner or Conjuration focused Wizard. To emulate the cloth-wearing caster priest of the games, I felt the Adamant Entertainment 3PP Priest class does an excellent job.
Shamans and their totems, on the other hand, seem to be unrepresented either in Paizo or 3PP. There are plenty of ways to capture the spiritual side of the class, but I'd like to see a well-done totem ability. I was thinking about an X-times a day ability that lets you place a totem of either Earth, Fire, Wind or Water. At first level, you start with one totem of each type (Earthbind, Searing, Healing, Grounding). At 4th level, you gain access to a new tier of totems (Stoneclaw, Magma, Mana Spring, Wind Fury) and continuing following this sort of progression. You can only have one totem of a given type on the field at a time. Something like that...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lastly, I will probably re-do this in Wordpress or something because google sites is just too hard to work with formatting wise.

Anyways, let me know what you think.


Hey there Epic, I'm a long term DM (since 2nd ed) and have been playing wow since Warcraft I, so needless to say, I'm always interested when someone wants to combine the two. ^_^ Having read your post and taken a tour through your site I have a few important questions to ask before I get too in-depth with any sort of review, as well as a couple of comments to already share.

Question 1: Are you doing this conversion just because you enjoy both WoW and pen/paper RPGs, or do you have a specific group/campaign you want to run it with?

Question 2: If a specific group/campaign when do you intend to start/ how much time to you have to devote to making custom content?

Question 3: How passionate are you about this? You've definitely put some good solid work into this effort so far, but do you intend to see it all the way through?

With that out of the way, lets look at a few things. I'll start with the races since that's the first part I skimmed through. All in all you've done a pretty solid job in my opinion. There are a few of the racials that I probably would've bumped the cost up by 1 or 2 points but that's not really a big deal considering all but one of the races so far are 12 point buy. How do you intend to deal with Worgen? Your default options being to simply use the Pathfinder Core Rules for lycanthropes or to make a race point buy for them as well. Do you intend to do other races such as the Pandaren or possibly even ones that aren't currently playable in the MMO, such as the popular Murloc? One of the big boons of a pen/paper RPG is having greater freedom in customizing characters and controlling their actions in ways you simply couldn't in a MMO. So this kind of thought processes needs to be taken into consideration when setting up a cast of playable races, especially considering that WoW has a fair number of potentially additional player races to choose from.

Switching gears lets look at classes, I fully agree with the choice to use the Adamant Entertainment's priest. As for the warlock, have you considered making that a term for certain casters that deal with fell and ignoring the class itself? Summoners make great demos for example, and in fact, Deep Magic from Kobold Press I do believe has a demon summoner archetype already for them. Taking this approach to warlocks frees up the need for creation/R&D and lets you focus on more demanding aspects, as well as gives players fewer "house rules" to have to learn/adapt to.


Thanks for the great feedback Lurion! I guess I'll just go point by point to respond =)

Lurion wrote:
Question 1: Are you doing this conversion just because you enjoy both WoW and pen/paper RPGs, or do you have a specific group/campaign you want to run it with?

More of the former. I've been playing warcraft since WC3 and went back to play 1 and 2 after WoW was released. I became so engrossed in the story and my older brother happened to pick up the RPG books when they were released. To date, I've yet to play in as fun a game as that one because none have had so strong a connection. I don't have a group at the moment, so I don't have the pressure of getting everything hammered out immediately. However, I do have a group in mind that I'd like to test it with in the future.

Question 2 not applied

Lurion wrote:
Question 3: How passionate are you about this? You've definitely put some good solid work into this effort so far, but do you intend to see it all the way through?

Fairly passionate. I don't want to sound disinterested, but it's not something I devote all my free time towards. Maybe 3-6 hours a week. This was a couple weeks worth of off and on work. I was working on it during college so I'd get fairly caught up in work, but now that I'm graduated and working 8-5, I have a steady block of free time. Probably the one thing I'm not sure I'd go all out on is the bestiary. I feel like it'd be easy enough to re-skin Pathfinder equivalents (which is what I did for a lot of them).

Lurion wrote:
There are a few of the racials that I probably would've bumped the cost up by 1 or 2 points but that's not really a big deal considering all but one of the races so far are 12 point buy.

That's where my inexperience with custom races shows ;) . I had no idea how to gauge some of them (like Night Elves' shadowmeld). It was an ability unlocked for taking levels in Night Elf that seemed to fit well enough. On the other hand, I purposely didn't stick to the guidelines - such as Troll's Troll Regeneration (Fast Healing). It's a Monstrous Trait, even though it requires 20+ RP points. I'm sure it could be substituted, but as sticking to lore over the game, Fast Healing seemed most appropriate.

Lurion wrote:
How do you intend to deal with Worgen?

I was actually thinking about this last night hah. I was going to review the rules on lycanthrope and check which would be most appropriate. I'm hesitant to create my own abilities (Transform(SU): Gain claws+bite+10ft movement etc) due to the chance of unbalancing things. Worgen are interesting as well, because they kind of came in three forms throughout the span of the MMO. The fully transformed and feral worgens (the original worgens), the more traditional, full-moon were-wolves that lose control while transformed and the "cured" worgen that can control their transformation. I'd like to be able to offer each of these three styles. Maybe one is the base race and the other two are racial archetypes. Either way, I was going to look into that at some point. (If you have suggestions feel free!) This is similar to a problem I had with High Elves and their addiction. Blood Elves eventually waned off of Moonwell energies after their exile and began feeding off of the Sunwell and even living creatures. After Kael'Thas entered outlands, a group of them began using fel energies as well. So there are numerous traits that vary based on the time of the campaign.

Lurion wrote:
Do you intend to do other races such as the Pandaren or possibly even ones that aren't currently playable in the MMO, such as the popular Murloc?

Definately! I agree that freedom is one of the critical aspects of p&p rpg's and races are a great path towards freedom. I was going to actually work on more neutral races when I got a chance including Pandaren, Centaurs, Furbolgs, Ethereals etc and some common monster races (murloc, kobold, gnoll, etc). Elementals would also be quite fun!

Lurion wrote:
As for the warlock, have you considered making that a term for certain casters that deal with fel and ignoring the class itself?

I didn't! But that could work. The doing the warlock archetype was actually quite easy since the abilities were done up for the 3.5e version of the WoW RPG. I just copy+pasted and adjusted the levels at which they're acquired to fit the Wizard build better. Like I said though, I really wasn't sure what the best course of action here was. I figured I'd just present the option if people wanted to use it over others. Ultimately there's probably numerous ways to build a convincing demon-controlling warlock.

Additionally, there are a few things that I'd like to do with classes: Build a fitting Shaman archetype with a working totem ability. Write up the witch doctor, runemaster and tinker class. Runemaster might actually be a good monk archetype and witch doctor, while there are Paizo versions, I feel could be better represented with a witch archetype.

Well, lunch break is over. "Work, Work" Thanks again for the feedback!


Currently transferring it over to my WordPress. Seems to be working much nicer. Only have a few of the creature stats to do up before I'm back where I left off.

Sovereign Court

While the Forsaken are undead in WoW true, it would be a better representation to use Half-undead , as they are subjects to all mind affecting effects, poisons etc...just like anybody else in the game/story.

Summoner from Unchained are probably a good inspiration for Warlock in WoW. With their different types of outsiders and would make relatively easy to convert.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I take it, you've never seen the Warcraft D20 material published by White Wolf?


Eltacolibre wrote:
...it would be a better representation to use Half-undead...

I was actually thinking the same thing. I just saw that the other day when going through. Once everything's on the new site, I'm going to review the races again and try to continue working on them.

LazarX wrote:
I take it, you've never seen the Warcraft D20 material published by White Wolf?

I have actually. I have the books somewhere in a box in a corner. That was what we initially played with.


Back again. Apologies for the delay, have been visiting a loved one in the hospital. Took a look at your new site, and I agree it feels much better. A quick browse through the equipment tab shows promise, and I highly approve of your choices for additional races to cover. I might have an idea for shammy totems to throw at you by tomorrow, need to mull a few options first and check 2 3P sources. Otherwise keep it up! :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Epic Dungeon Master wrote:
Eltacolibre wrote:
...it would be a better representation to use Half-undead...

I was actually thinking the same thing. I just saw that the other day when going through. Once everything's on the new site, I'm going to review the races again and try to continue working on them.

LazarX wrote:
I take it, you've never seen the Warcraft D20 material published by White Wolf?
I have actually. I have the books somewhere in a box in a corner. That was what we initially played with.

Why not go the easy route then and convert THAT material?

Grand Lodge

Here, you can have these if you would like to use them.


Diodric wrote:
Here, you can have these if you would like to use them.

Nice work. I kinda want Large Tauren, but I applaud the balance among races leaning high instead of low. These are very satisfying versions.


@LazarX - At the risk of looking like a fool, how would it be easier? The 1st addition rules were more closely tied to the base 3.0 rules, whereas the 2nd addition builds of 3.5 while making a lot of changes themselves.

@Diodric - Thanks! I'm not sure if you posted this after I started or not, but I wish I'd seen it when I was looking for material to build off of. This should make things go a little faster with some of the races + tweaking others.


The Epic Dungeon Master wrote:
@LazarX - At the risk of looking like a fool, how would it be easier? The 1st addition rules were more closely tied to the base 3.0 rules, whereas the 2nd addition builds of 3.5 while making a lot of changes themselves.

IMO it wouldn't be easier. Well, it may be easier because the heavy lifting has been done, all you'd have to do is take the WoW (3.5) version material and drop a Pathfinder filter over it (substituting feats, HD, Barbarian features, etc.). The reason not to do it is that they made a lot of custom stuff up, and not very well in my opinion. Better to start fresh, altering as little as possible. You don't need WoW versions of classes and magic; treat it as a setting to play PF in.

Grand Lodge

The Epic Dungeon Master wrote:

@LazarX - At the risk of looking like a fool, how would it be easier? The 1st addition rules were more closely tied to the base 3.0 rules, whereas the 2nd addition builds of 3.5 while making a lot of changes themselves.

@Diodric - Thanks! I'm not sure if you posted this after I started or not, but I wish I'd seen it when I was looking for material to build off of. This should make things go a little faster with some of the races + tweaking others.

Oh, I've had that list of years. I think I'm going to take a few minutes today and fluff out those abilities instead of that skeleton list.

@Can'tFindthePath
I'll look at tweaking a large Tauren, see if there's something I can do.

Edit: Um, looking at my old documents I had also apparently started adding favored class bonuses. I will probably need to finish those too if wanted.


Diodric wrote:
I'll look at tweaking a large Tauren, see if there's something I can do.

Well, your version gets the job done, and with balance among races. Making a Large version is spendy. You can drop the Advanced Str because of the size bonus, but you'll pick up a Dex penalty as well, throwing the ability mods out of whack. I was looking at +2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Int. Then the Large stuff on top. I'd like to get a Con bonus in there, but Wis seems like a priority.


Can'tFindThePath wrote:
The reason not to do it is that they made a lot of custom stuff up, and not very well in my opinion. Better to start fresh, altering as little as possible. You don't need WoW versions of classes and magic; treat it as a setting to play PF in.

This was actually the approach I had in mind. Keep as much Pathfinder as possible to reduce the chance of error and confusion. Some of the things in the WoW 2e RPG are easy enough to tweak for Pathfinder, but I'm trying to minimize the amount I do that. I agree with magic, but like with classes, there are some pretty iconic spells that I'd like to provide just as an homage.

Diodric wrote:
Um, looking at my old documents I had also apparently started adding favored class bonuses. I will probably need to finish those too if wanted.

This was going to be another future addition I'd look at and wanted to do. If you did wrote those up, that'd be amazing!

Grand Lodge

To-Do:
Fluffly/Fleshy Racials
Favored Class Bonuses
Tweaked Alternate Tauren

Now I'm doing a class bonus for all the 10 basic WoW classes, save Death Knights. When I was doing my conversion I had Death Knights as a prestige class. I'm also assuming the bonuses will need to be tweaked based on what the classes look like afterwards.

I will try to have everything posted later this evening.

Edit: Large Tauren

Moo:
Tauren (15 Race Points)
Type
Humanoid (tauren) (0 RP)
Size
Large (7 RP)
+2 Str, -2 Dex
-1 size AC, -1 attack; +4 CMB & CMD
-4 Stealth skill
Base Speed
Normal (0 RP)
Ability Score Modifiers
+2 Con, +2 Wis; -2 Int (Standard 0 RP) Total: +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis; -2 Dex, -2 Int
Languages
Standard (0 RP)
Racial Traits
Defensive Racial Traits
Desert Runner (2 RP)
Natural Armor +1 (2 RP)
Offensive Racial Traits
Natural Attack – Gore 1d6 (1 RP)
Powerful Charge (2 RP)
Movement Racial Traits
Sprinter (1 RP)

Only thing is I wish the Tauren were stronger.


Diodric wrote:

To-Do:

Fluffly/Fleshy Racials
Favored Class Bonuses
Tweaked Alternate Tauren

Now I'm doing a class bonus for all the 10 basic WoW classes, save Death Knights. When I was doing my conversion I had Death Knights as a prestige class. I'm also assuming the bonuses will need to be tweaked based on what the classes look like afterwards.

I will try to have everything posted later this evening.

Edit: Large Tauren
** spoiler omitted **

Only thing is I wish the Tauren were stronger.

Re: Moo

I would drop the Powerful Charge and Natural Armor in favor of Advanced Str. Add a feat called....Powerful Charge for those that dig the image.

Grand Lodge

Quick question. I was getting to the blood elves, and found its only a point difference between lesser and greater spell resistance. That would bump them up to a 15 from a 14. 11+lv too good for 1 point difference?


Diodric wrote:
Quick question. I was getting to the blood elves, and found its only a point difference between lesser and greater spell resistance. That would bump them up to a 15 from a 14. 11+lv too good for 1 point difference?

Sounds a little strong. I thought it was the Night Elves who had SR. In any case, I shy away from SR on PC's. I would redeploy the points to ensure bonus to save vs. magic, and magicky traits.

Grand Lodge

Well they both had resistances. NE vs Nature damage, BE vs Arcane damage. I'll see if there's something comparable.

Edit: There isn't unless you want to give them a resistance to poison or diseases as well, which, makes no sense. Or we could give him elemental resistance 5. I'm thinking spell resistance may be best bet.


I'd love to see what you make of the Runemaster class from the WoW TTRPG.

I tried to put an update together a while back, but there's probably a lot more that could be done to make it better.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Epic Dungeon Master wrote:

@LazarX - At the risk of looking like a fool, how would it be easier? The 1st addition rules were more closely tied to the base 3.0 rules, whereas the 2nd addition builds of 3.5 while making a lot of changes themselves.

Because the WOW classes fit the world of Azeroth, which is the whole point of doing this thing. The point is to put a bit of Pathfinder into WOW isntead of trying to fit WOW in Golarion, isn't it?

Grand Lodge

LazarX wrote:
The Epic Dungeon Master wrote:

@LazarX - At the risk of looking like a fool, how would it be easier? The 1st addition rules were more closely tied to the base 3.0 rules, whereas the 2nd addition builds of 3.5 while making a lot of changes themselves.

Because the WOW classes fit the world of Azeroth, which is the whole point of doing this thing. The point is to put a bit of Pathfinder into WOW isntead of trying to fit WOW in Golarion, isn't it?

Speaking wholly for my self, the whole point is to make a WoW conversion that doesn't completely suck *** like the White Wolf version did. Worst money I ever spent.

There is nothing to convert. That whole book was a joke. You'd end up throwing most of it out anyways.

The racial levels were unnecessary. I've made perfectly good races that work just fine which are on the same power level as some "uncommon" PF races. That was an issue with the 3.5 races if you needed to have 3 levels cover everything your race needed to do. I mean who is going to play a jungle troll without taking their racial levels? They take a net -2 penalty to their attributes! You'd play lvs 1-3 without a class level! Which by the way the troll race level abilities besides the attribute increases are healing, healing, and faster healing. So your goblin rogue buddy is already murdering gnomes with 2d6 sneak attack before you even get martial weapon proficiency.
So that means you have to completely rebuild the races. All but the 2 or 3 that didn't get racial levels. So might as well knock those out too.

The classes were almost as bad. They had a Healer class. Seriously? I will give you that they technically made the prototype for the Archetype system, but sweet Desna's teats! You don't smush the Priest, Druid, and Shaman into the same class! How do you convert those? How you gonna tell the Feral Druid and the Enhancement Shaman and the Shadow Priest they're healers?
Here, lemme get my buddy, Lord Marrowgar:
"SSS******TTTSSSTTTOOORRRMMM!"

Do we want to make 9 brand new archetypes or do you want to use preexisting classes and archetypes to make a reasonable facsimile?

I see where you're coming from and I personally appreciate the attempt. But wow (pun intended), that source book was the worst ever.

So, in conclusion, no. The point is not to shoe horn WoW into PF, or PF into WoW. Its to completely make a brand new system from the ground up using the best and most current rule set available that both captures the feeling of adventures in Azeroth while using tried and revised rules we all (mostly) observe.

/drop mic.

Edit: LazarX, please do not think I was directing anything at you at all. I respect you and your contributions to the forums. I just *really* hate that book.


I have to agree with Diodric. While I didn't hate the books quite as much as he did since it was early in my roleplaying career and knew no better, I can see now where they fall short. At least in my opinion, several of the Pathfinder classes already do a better job at representing Warcraft's classes, at least the in-game ones, with no conversion.


I edited the forsaken to take advantage of the Half-Undead subtype vs. full undead.

Just throwing it out there, feel free to shed it to bits. Not sure about balance and scaling, but this is what I had in mind for shaman totems. I feel like it'd be a fun ability to play with.

Shaman Totems (SU): Shamans use specially crafted totems as an instrument of war. Characterized by their immobility and area of effect, the totems embody the shaman's mastery over the elements. Some totems possess destructive power while others aid and assist allies. Shamanistic cultures outside those of the Horde and draenei also possess the ability to use totems in battle.

As a swift action, the shaman may place a totem in his space or any adjacent space. The totem is small enough not to block movement, grant cover or provide flanking. Each totem belongs to one of four elements: Earth, Fire, Water and Wind. Only one totem of a given element may be active at a time. Placing a second totem of a given element will replace the first totem. The shaman must declare which totem he is placing when the ability is used and cannot change it except by replacing it with a new totem. A totem lasts a number of rounds equal to 1 + the shaman’s Wisdom modifier. The shaman may use this ability 1/day. This increases by 1 at 4th level and every 4 levels after. Saves for totems are equal to 10 + totem level + shaman’s Wisdom modifier.

1st-level Totems:

Earthbind Totem (Earth): Enemies within 25ft + 5ft/shaman level of this totem must make a Fort save at the beginning of their turn or treat all spaces within range of this totem as difficult terrain.
Searing Totem (Fire): At the beginning of your turn, this totem shoots a bolt of flame at an enemy within 30ft dealing 1d4 points of fire damage. For every two shaman levels beyond 1st, you gain an additional 1d4 damage (max 5d4).
Healing Totem (Water): At the beginning of your turn allies within 30ft of this totem are healed 1 point of damage. The healing increases to 5 at 4th level.
Windwalk Totem (Wind): Allies within 25ft + 5ft/shaman level ignore all movement impairing effects.

4nd-level Totems:
N/A

8rd-level Totems:
N/A

12th-level Totems:
N/A

Grand Lodge

What chassis are you planning to build the shaman on? Are you going to use a preexisting class and archetype it, or you making a completely new class?

Also, I plan on having the races up today if you want them. It was just taking longer than expected yesterday.


Diodric wrote:
*Lots of good (but slightly angry) points*

Agreed.

The mechanics of the MMO are just that, mechanics; designed within the parameters of the medium to best function and convey the flavor of the setting. I feel that the medium of Pen and Paper is more open, and much more adaptable, and that PF is the best version to convey the flavor I want.

Azeroth is a setting, and like getting any IP setting license, the task is to make the least tweaks possible to keep the feel and flavor.

I look at the MMO like I would a fantasy novel, and adapt what is described to PF.

Grand Lodge

Can'tFindthePath wrote:
Diodric wrote:
*Lots of good (but slightly angry) points*
Agreed.

I am really sorry about that angry post, I have no idea why I was so mad at that source book last night, ha!

Can'tFindthePath wrote:
I look at the MMO like I would a fantasy novel, and adapt what is described to PF.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I think conversions that are more cinematic and less a straight port end up being much better. Things that are more "in the spirit" of the game.


Diodric wrote:

What chassis are you planning to build the shaman on? Are you going to use a preexisting class and archetype it, or you making a completely new class?

Also, I plan on having the races up today if you want them. It was just taking longer than expected yesterday.

Speaking of which, this may sound crazy to some, but I like the Shaman in ACG for this. I mean, there have been lots of Shaman over the years, starting all the way back in 2nd D&D in Faiths and Avatars. They usually fall short; the difficulty in incorporating spirit magic and differentiating them from Cleric.

I think the ACG Shaman hits it pretty well. I can see choosing an elemental Spirit fulfilling the totemic style. The hexes are a perfect foundation for totem powers. You could add a totem ability at mid levels that lets you drop a totem (either physical or not) that anchors a "hex aura". One could add some of the classic totem powers as new Hexes.

The more (what I like to think of as) Orcish style Shaman, could be any Spirit, especially Battle.

Keep an open mind and check it out.


Races would be good, if I don't make them exact, I hope you don't take offense. They've really helped with ideas for tweaking and thinking about new ones. I was thinking about making a separate page on the website with your races for those who want a more powerful variant.

I was looking at the Shaman from the ACG and thought it was the best fit of all the Shaman variants. I had it in mind to just do a Shaman archetype that focused on totems, just to give players an alternative.

Can'tFindThePath wrote:
I look at the MMO like I would a fantasy novel, and adapt what is described to PF.

Agreed as well. I went down the other path of trying to build make an exact duplicate of the MMO in table-top form and it just felt wrong.


The Epic Dungeon Master wrote:


I was looking at the Shaman from the ACG and thought it was the best fit of all the Shaman variants. I had it in mind to just do a Shaman archetype that focused on totems, just to give players an alternative.

It's funny, but until now that Shaman really didn't do anything for me. But I looked it over, picturing a ferocious Orc Shaman, and a proud Tauren Shaman, and thought "huh, this is perfect". Go figure. Guess I just didn't need a Shaman before.

The Epic Dungeon Master wrote:
Can'tFindThePath wrote:
I look at the MMO like I would a fantasy novel, and adapt what is described to PF.
Agreed as well. I went down the other path of trying to build make an exact duplicate of the MMO in table-top form and it just felt wrong.

I've considered doing that myself. And I mean exact. But, it wouldn't be Pathfinder at all. Might be d20, but likely I'd just start designing a whole new beastie to really accommodate the translation.

But, I've been "meaning" to build my own system for like 20 odd years, so decided PF was the best existing style to capture WoW. Got to get something in front of my game buddies; I haven't run a game in like 5 years. They are all DMing, and growing weary.

Maybe later I'll finally build the ULTIMATE game system, and a homebrewed world to go with it.....maybe.


WoW's Enhancement Shaman could probably be done with a Magus archetype designed to work with two-weapon fighting, maybe change the casting stat from intelligence to wisdom. I've been trying to figure out a good way to replicate my hammer-and-iron-claw wielding shaman in Pathfinder myself, and there are so many ways that get very close to the concept but are not quite right.

Grand Lodge

I made this Enhancement Shaman about a year ago.

Here is the forum link.

Sovereign Court

Nowadays, frankly Enhancement Shaman would work better with a warpriest archetype, taking inspiration from the Sacred Fist. Since claws and axes were the big deal about it. To make this archetype different, and more shaman like, would even add a few druid spells.

Grand Lodge

Thats a good call with making enhancement shaman a warpriest archetype. Probably give it the Hunter spell list.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Diodric wrote:
LazarX wrote:
The Epic Dungeon Master wrote:

@LazarX - At the risk of looking like a fool, how would it be easier? The 1st addition rules were more closely tied to the base 3.0 rules, whereas the 2nd addition builds of 3.5 while making a lot of changes themselves.

Because the WOW classes fit the world of Azeroth, which is the whole point of doing this thing. The point is to put a bit of Pathfinder into WOW isntead of trying to fit WOW in Golarion, isn't it?

Speaking wholly for my self, the whole point is to make a WoW conversion that doesn't completely suck *** like the White Wolf version did. Worst money I ever spent.

There is nothing to convert. That whole book was a joke. You'd end up throwing most of it out anyways.

The racial levels were unnecessary. I've made perfectly good races that work just fine which are on the same power level as some "uncommon" PF races. That was an issue with the 3.5 races if you needed to have 3 levels cover everything your race needed to do. I mean who is going to play a jungle troll without taking their racial levels? They take a net -2 penalty to their attributes! You'd play lvs 1-3 without a class level! Which by the way the troll race level abilities besides the attribute increases are healing, healing, and faster healing. So your goblin rogue buddy is already murdering gnomes with 2d6 sneak attack before you even get martial weapon proficiency.
So that means you have to completely rebuild the races. All but the 2 or 3 that didn't get racial levels. So might as well knock those out too.

The classes were almost as bad. They had a Healer class. Seriously? I will give you that they technically made the prototype for the Archetype system, but sweet Desna's teats! You don't smush the Priest, Druid, and Shaman into the same class! How do you convert those? How you gonna tell the Feral Druid and the Enhancement Shaman and the Shadow Priest they're healers?
Here, lemme get my buddy, Lord Marrowgar:
"SSS******TTTSSSTTTOOORRRMMM!"

Do...

The second version of the game which instead of being D20, was OGL based on 3.5 was much muchbetter, addressing all of the things that sucked about the first version. And it was far more successful in the market. There was a conversion guide released to rebuild the critters and NPC's of First Edition into Second Edition rules.

The classes were rebuilt eliminating the "healer" class, and rebuilding the Shaman, Druid, Priest, etc. as proper 20 level classes. Runes were used to make two interesting classes, a much more mystic version of monk, and an Inscriber "arcetype" of Mage, this is just the tip of the iceberg the game was essentially rebuilt and retooled.

I myself only used the 2.0 version of the game, using the 1.0 settings books for scenery.


This is really cool The Epic Dungeon Master, but have you considered doing classes the way the official World of Warcraft RPG is set up (with certain classes having certain specialization choices at higher levels)?

Like the following:

Arcanist (Mage, Warlock, or Necromancer)
Barbarian
Healer (Druid, Shaman, or Priest)
Hunter
Monk
Paladin
Sorcerer (Dragon-Blooded, Elemental-Blooded, or Fel-Blooded)
Rogue
Tinker
Warrior


Just following this thread. Nothing to contribute at present.

(Mostly because I'm still working on my own conversion.)


I like the 3.5 D&D approach of choosing a class and then choosing a subclass to grant further abilities.

If anyone wanted to do a full conversion of World of Warcraft: The Tabletop Roleplaying Game then maybe they could use these outline for the classes:

Barbarian
• Beastmaster: A barbarian that trains, rides, and fights beside his animal companions.
• Berserker: A barbarian that has truly harnessed the power of rage.
• Warlord: A barbarian that leads his troops into bloodthirsty battle rages.

Healer
• Druid: This healer worships the Emerald Dream and gains the power to shape shift into wild beasts of nature.
• Priest: A healer that worships either the divine holy light or the foul twisted nether and draws power it..
• Shaman: This healer channels the spirits of the land and his/hers ancestors to give him the power to smite his foes and heal his allies.

Hunter
• Demon Hunter: This hunter is devoted to slaying the demons of the Burning Legion.
• Ranger: A hunter who is a master of a specific weapon style as well as hunting certain foes on certain terrains.
• Warden: A hunter who draws divine power from the Emerald Dream to gain limited spellcasting power in order to heal allies and smite foes.

Paladin
• Knight of the Silver Hand: A paladin belonged to the Order of the Silverhand who draws divine power from the Holy Light.
• Scarlet Crusader: A paladin devoted to using holy fire to cleanse Azeroth of the undead Scourge and it’s abominations.
• Fel-Sworn: A former paladin that has fallen from grace and now worships and serves the Burning Legion.
• Death Knight: A former paladin that was corrupted by the Lich King’s undead Scourge yet is now free willed yet still bears the taint of undeath.

Rogue
• Assassin: These rogues are devoted to infiltrating enemy strongholds in order to silently execute their foes with their blades.
• Scout: These rogues aid their companions by combining stealth and backstabbing with the animal companion and limited spellcasting (up to 4th level) of a hunter.
• Thief: These rogues are masters of stealing all sorts of things, from secrets and information to priceless relics worth a great deal of gold.

Engineer
• Experimenter: These engineers are the quintessential mad scientists, combing science and arcane magic to bomb their foes and animate their patchwork remains into flesh golem companions.
• Gunslinger: These engineers are more warriors than masters of science but when it comes to building and wielding firearms they are masters without peer.
• Machinist: These engineers support their allies by building sentry cannon turrets and other machines.

Sorcerer
• Angelkin: These sorcerers have the divine power of the Holy Light running through their veins.
• Arcaneseed: These sorcerers are born with the raw power of magic funneling through their bodies.
• Demonspawn: These sorcerers unfortunately bear the taint of the Twisted Nether and the Demons of the Burning Legion coursing through their veins.
• Dragonborn: These sorcerers have the power of one the five dragon aspects coursing through their blood.
• Element-Blooded: These sorcerers bear the elemental power of one of the four elements in their bodies.

Warrior
• Duelist: These warriors rely on agility, speed, and finesse to overcome their foes.
• Gladiator: These warriors rely on ferocity with heavy weaponry and strong armor to overcome their foes.
• Mounted Warrior: These warriors are masters of mounted combat.

Wizard
• Mage: A wizard that specializes in either flame, frost, or pure arcane power to blast their foes to dust.
• Necromancer: A wizard that slowly sacrifices their morality in order to raise the living as undead servitors.
• Warlock: A wizard that slowly sacrifices their morality in order to channel the power of the twisted nether to rain hellfire upon foes and summon infernal monsters.

Grand Lodge

Berselius wrote:
I like the 3.5 D&D approach of choosing a class and then choosing a subclass to grant further abilities.

Which, interestingly enough, works very well for the new 5th edition of D&D. Since you start with the base class and then you add on a specialization.

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