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I have been dying to put together a high-level adventure that would allow PCs to actually become 20th-level and possibly mythic by the conclusion of the module. With all the exceptional hype surrounding the upcoming Occult Adventures, and the connection to the elemental material involved in it, it's gotten my imagination all riled up. I made this outline in the style of the current PF Modules (17th-20th levels, Medium XP/wealth, for 4-5 PCs, with two possible mythic tiers gained).
I was inspired at least partially by Colin McComb's Beyond the Vault of Souls, along with the basic layout and pacing of Wardens of the Reborn Forge. Plus, well - I kind of love the planes - you know, like, way too much...
Along with general adventuring content related to the planes, I decided to include a compiled list of wild/primal magic events that could be possible in Limbo (the Maelstrom). Since I was thinking of publishing this, anything would be generically-named in the end, but would stick closely enough to Golarion lore to be relevant to the default campaign setting use. Also, because of the upcoming AP in Cheliax and the occult notions behind hidden mysteries, I decided to tie in Asmodeus ("Prince of Lies," "Dark Lord," "King of Devils," "Infernal Architect of Hell"), and a secret mystery that could lead to his downfall - among many other possible outcomes. I also made sure to include a segment where the PCs could even travel to a planar arena similar to the Coliseum Morpheuon. Astral Plane - Dimension of Dreams - close enough. It will also include a lot of elements tied to the war between the titans and the gods.
So, since it's a pretty intensive outline and background concept for the story arc, I will put it up in some further posts. For now, I will say it definitely will include a heavy elemental influence, which means genies and other elemental kin. Plus, portals affected by the Wild Magic trait from the Maelstrom/Limbo, where the adventure mostly takes place.
So, any thoughts or suggestions before I post up the basics?
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Here goes...
Every portion of the adventure's duration spent journeying through a vast expanse would be spent in an elemental-dominant or generally chaotic planar space, with focal scenes on the portal sites themselves, with wild magic and law-defying effects being the major theme besides each of the elemental focal points. Beginning with a Water-dominant region, into the Plane of Earth (and back to Limbo), the adventurers will also delay an incursion by members of the Shadow Plane intent on spoiling the energies brought on by these planar breaches.
After this, diplomatic and war efforts will be needed to ally against a mutual foe with members of either Fire or Air elemental nobility, who are at war with one another near the next planar breach. Along with coming across a planar trade caravan of Mercanes and Witchwyrds for a very specific meeting purposes (either combat or dialogue/story award), and an EL 20 group of prestige class member NPCs on a competitive trajectory to the PCs, there is the possibility of an expanded planar arena scene, or a more limited basic plot: the PCs are captured or coerced into participating in an arena battle with an Elysian Titan and a Thanatotic Titan (with the potential of allying with one of them, and fighting a further shackled hekatonkheires), and the freed or escaped Thanatotitan becomes the next major antagonist, after he heads back to his ruined planar castle fortress.
Sieging the planar fortress of the titan means dealing with magic traps, minions, and the titan himself, who is accruing more dark power for itself to destroy the creation of the gods, and all mortal life as well. Daemons get involved here, to try and influence things toward destruction and armageddon. All the elemental themes were wrapped up in the prior segments, and the rest will tend to deal more with Astral, Nightmare, and Ethereal natives being more involved and antagonistic. Finally, at the "headwaters" of this planar anomaly, a group of proteans is praying to a mythic energy being inside the core of a large asteroid-shaped earthen object, and resist the involvement of the PCs at almost any cost. Following this encounter, after journeying into the interior of this stone structure, they encounter a pair of variant plasma oozes that are siphoning planar powers from the last breach in the series (and ironically, the first place the original titan used its Planar Leap ability to crash through the planar boundaries in a far-ancient time).
Along the way, the PCs learn that each of these portals is just the lingering effects of one single titan's planar leaps and boundary-crashing, and can affect the outcome of the future of these portals and their use, or even closure or other "repair" as the adventure progresses. A series of incredibly interesting and priceless Soul Gems of the Denier (Asmodeus) is laid out as MacGuffins along the way to be collected - three in all over the course of this adventure, but possibly more at the GM's discretion - most players will end up being more interested in collecting the calcified atheistic soul gems of the god of devils than they are in repairing any portals or studying planar anomalies in the Maelstrom. The goal with all of this is to make an adventure that leads to other adventures, and dropping a few extra occult/mystery aspects to it, to make sure that players and GMs can make their own epic story out of any decent included plot hook. The first gem is discovered when confronting natives of the Shadow Plane (dark folk) as they attempt to conjure their masters into an underground region within the Plane of Earth, but are mostly unaware of its presence there. The second gem is found or won during the encounter with the Air/Fire elemental nobility (or with the Planar Traders, as a backup); it's possible that the PCs will have these stolen from them, destroyed, or otherwise put in peril, to be recovered during the titan's castle scene. The third gem is in the asteroid structure as part of the energon/plasma oozes' horde, and it may not hold any significance to them whatsoever. It is assumed that five or even more gems exist, as arcane components for some terrible ritual that could make or break the divine power of Asmodeus, the Prince of Lies, and his denial of his godly peer's power, which formed into the ruby soul gems during his rise to divine power (basically, his denial of the angel, Ihys' godly power, as well as the murder of the being, sealed his fate, gained him divine power, but also created the atheist soul gems as part of this infernal pact of the long-lost past, and a potential heresy against the Church of Asmodeus).
The whole Limbo segment would make sure to include trait-dominance and weather-like effects to solidify the random nature of the region, and random encounter tables for high-level elemental and other planar foes would be included in each section in between major encounters detailed. The mythic set up would be built to begin at either no mythic tier, or 7th-tier for alternate stats for those PCs who begin play with mythic power. Mythic tiers would be gained +1 at the acquisition of the first soul gem, and +2 before the mythic energon/plasma ooze concluding scene.
I have already begun putting together elemental foes for random encounter tables, and compiling all the wild magic/primal magic information, including spells, Stable Spell feat and metamagic rod, and unique effects. There are many ways in which this adventure could have multiple possible outcomes, all of them fulfilling the basic requirements of finishing the adventure.
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LazarX - so, you are in favor of mythic foes but NO mythic tiers for PCs? The way I design allows for multiple usages, and GMs/tables can make their choice about how they wish to play the adventure at the table. I will attempt not to comment on players who "milk" any system.
As a matter of compromise, I recognize that mythic changes things significantly, but that is no reason to scrap a good idea. Some people may be looking for adventure that allows them to test these theories of balance in gaming. I agree that the CR equivalencies seem a bit skewed, but creativity always makes up the difference - including environmental elements such as wild/primal magic, and any new material I may feel like creating to include.
One person's "utterly broken" is another person's "best campaign ever." I don't go to conventions anymore, and that seems to be where "system mastery players" become a subject of contention. I make stories that have decent game mechanics at a variety of levels of "add-on" mechanics, and make sure the wealth and XP amounts line up by the time it's concluded. And then, I say how, along with variable random encounters can alter level progression, it could result in differently powered groups. GMs can do the rest of the work at the table, as far as which of the presented options I put up they wish to apply at the table.
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To give so much power (mythic) to players, only to have them follow a linear script, is pointless IMO. If you give them mythic powers, expect to see the desire within them to generate their own plot devices... and largely ignore certain events that are more inconsequential from their (near divine) perspective.
I mean, most mortals would steer clear from a war between elemental planes... or other fundamental forces of the universe... now give these mortals mythic powers, and see them try to harness it all to their advantage. Hard to be a hero when you have to be a cosmic politician.
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Dot'ing this to comment later.
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I like mythic play, but certainly can't recommend starting PCs at tier 7. That's just asking for a massive headache.
If you want to do mythic, start with no tiers, but allow people to start gaining tiers after certain critical events. And 1 tier at a time.
Mythic tiers allows PCs to fight things way, way out of the weight class of normal PCs - that's kind of the point, even.
Which means you need to be ready to pit them against foes that are normally way out of the weight class of normal PCs.
You'll also want to think of the nastier rocket tag things that can come up with mythic, and whether (and how) you want to tone them down should they prove problematic.
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I like mythic play, but certainly can't recommend starting PCs at tier 7. That's just asking for a massive headache.
If you want to do mythic, start with no tiers, but allow people to start gaining tiers after certain critical events. And 1 tier at a time.
Okay, so let's assume that the goal for this is beginning at 17th-level with no mythic tiers, for the sake of argument. That said, I am still writing sidebar material that can help increase the mythic potential. I am much more open to hearing potential major problems, and ways in which they can be "too quickly/easily" overcome by mythic PCs. Please trust that I can make interesting and creative balance factors to the story that will make it worth the time of all involved.
Also, let's be clear: writing the adventure doesn't make decisions for the players at the table - it merely tells the GM how prepared you are willing to make them for such an adventure, and the GMs/players always make the final call about how their game is going to go down. The only thing I can do is provide preparation for foreseeable risks and imbalances.
I agree that 7th-tier is high. It was a maximum-range number, to show that anything higher than that is truly impossible, no matter how much the players want to "break" the system by playing "too powerful." It also allows for further adventuring, rather than a conclusive end-scene at the adventure's finish.
Mythic tiers allows PCs to fight things way, way out of the weight class of normal PCs - that's kind of the point, even.
Which means you need to be ready to pit them against foes that are normally way out of the weight class of normal PCs.
Done, done, and done. Like I said, sidebars to describe alternative versions of foes for higher challenges. Not difficult. It's just math.
You'll also want to think of the nastier rocket tag things that can come up with mythic, and whether (and how) you want to tone them down should they prove problematic.
Let's also assume for a moment that I have no idea exactly what you just told me here, but that I recognize it's importance anyways. What specific worries are there about high-mythic-tiers, before we go much further into details? What elements allow players to "steamroll" opponents, without enough of a challenge?
Also on the topic of mythic, even though I am uber-interested in the newly-released 3pp mythic rules, I have not had an opportunity to see the new expansions - and will purposefully not include anything from it here until I own the set of new books/PDFs. For the sake of this, all mythic material would just be from the core PF book.
No matter what other elements play into this, only two newly-acquired mythic tiers are possible in this story arc, without further GM alteration, and it will explicitly state not to allow above 9th-tier, to make sure there is still room for expansion beyond the adventure. How many adventures are out there to allow characters to journey above 20th-level within the context and confines of the story/adventure? How many times have you wanted to max out a class to 20th+ level, or felt like being the full 10th-level of a prestige class, but couldn't play an adventure written for it?
If it was up to me, I would take this even higher - and give you all a 137th-140th level adventure. But there are limits to the math as it stands now, and I am not writing new epic-level graph materials right now. I'm trying to actually put real boundaries on this thing, so it doesn't just go on forever. :P ;)
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the power is coming from somewhere or more importantly, someone. Who is their cosmic underwriter, and why? ;)
Soooo... I'm not sure that our two minds are confined by the same boundaries. I don't view power in the cosmos that way. Also, the universe is infinite.... And the planes are more infinite than that.... Sooooo....... <.<
One of the underlying themes of this adventure
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Of the 2,000,000 XP plus 3,000,000 XP plus 4,200,000 XP needed to go from 17th to 20th level (9,200,000 XP total), the following encounters make up a portion of that budget, and allow for hazards/traps, and random encounters drawn from specifically-built lists for the regions with elemental, energetic, or other dominant planar traits. Scenes 1-3 provide 633,800 XP (17th level), scenes 4-7 comprise 2,918,900 XP (18th level), and the final scenes 8-10 make up 2,331,300 XP (19th level), including a wide array of traps/hazards in scene 8. These are outlined below, along with the adventure's over-arching concept.
For groups using mythic tiers, I am designating each of these scenes as either standard encounters (negative-CR or CR +0 to +1), M1 common mythic encounters (CR +2 to +4), and M2 powerful mythic encounters (CR +4 or more). Most of these will include how to add more foes or hazards that will work for both additional PC party members, as well as additional mythic tiers.
Traveling through Limbo includes variable elemental dominance traits, but more and more water-dominant as the PCs approach the first breach. Cold vs. hot water dominance is the primary conflict that will be resolved before the end of scene 2. Scene 1 is mostly random encounters and hazards, peaking with cultists of destruction left behind to deal with groups like the PCs, following the same path. Scene 2 concludes with a battle between elemental groups (air- and water-dominant) who are trying to stabilize the planar breach's elemental output in their own favor (water=cold/ice, air=hot/steam), and takes place in a fully aquatic, underwater region around the central portal. The PCs have the option of allying with one group or another, lowering the challenge and possibly receiving story award XP in place of the rival group. Each group includes an elemental kineticist, and possibly both genies and standard elementals. After this battle, scene 2 ends by traveling through the planar breach (possibly after altering its behavior and traits on either side), to a cavern system on the Plane of Earth. The elemental priests scholar is left behind to study the breach.
Scene 3 is completed when the PCs encounter the main dark folk group who is summoning forth their shadowy overlords, and which is nearby to the currently-hidden first soul gem of the Devil Tyrant. The PCs return from the Plane of Earth to Limbo, before seeking out the next breach.
- Unseen Archer, CR 14 rogue (NPC Codex)
- Mad Prophet, CR 12 Pathfinder Chronicler (NPC Codex)
- Death Priest x2, CR 8 cleric (NPC Codex)
- Cultist x2, CR 8 adept (NPC Codex)
2) Elemental Battle (M1): Each of the two competing factions is led by an air/water elemental kineticist (CR 15), along with a group of genies/elementals (EL 15 combination). PCs may come into conflict with both parties in order to achieve their goals, or they may form an alliance of a temporary or more permanent sort.
3) Dark Folk Incursion Ritual (M2): After possibly encountering a dark folk exploration party in the caverns, the larger group is found conjuring forth owbs and more powerful shadow beings. +1 mythic tier earned for mythic PCs by this scene's completion. This group includes the following:
- 9x Dark Caller conjurers (CR 9 each)
- Dark Folk group (EL 15), made up of different types
- 3x Owb Occultists (CR 14 each)
- Mythic Owb (summoned, CR 15), plus CR 15 kyton
5) Planar Trade Excursion (M1): Whether as a group who wishes to take a soul gem away from the PCs, or if the PCs must acquire the soul gem from them, this group of traders of the planes is possible combat or story encounter. A CR 16 mercane arcanist/aristocrat is accompanied by a group of x5 CR 12 witchwyrd magi, and their planar gypsy wagon (vardo).
6) Competing Explorer Group: This EL 20 group of morally-bankrupt CR 16 adventurers (all from NPC Codex) is competing for the acquisition of the soul gems, and the secret goals of those who put these plans into motion. It includes:
- Herald of Armageddon, cleric of Rovagug
- Elven Recluse, fighter
- Black Ice, shadowdancer
- Spirit Avenger, eldritch knight
- Vaultbreaker, arcane trickster
7a/7b) Arena Battles (standard/M2): In the first arena battle, the PCs encounter both a thanatotitan and Elysian titan, and could fight one or the other, or both. The PCs have the option of using mythic power to grant divine power to the Elysian titan, increasing it to CR 22 (cleric spellcasting ability). This could include forging temporary or permanent alliances with one of these titan groups, and if allied (or pissing off an arena patron), the PCs will have to face an enslaved CR 24 hekatonkheires titan while battling along with their new titan ally. The death titan is most likely freed or escapes, to be encountered in scene 8, at its own planar fortress.
- Mithral Wizard, CR 19 eldritch knight
- Demonologist, CR 19 loremaster
- Godstealer, CR 19 arcane trickster
- Death Master, CR 16 mystic theurge
9) Protean Choir-Cult (M1): This EL 21 group includes the following proteans. +1 mythic tier for mythic PCs by the scene's conclusion, or before scene 10.
- 2x keketar proteans
- 2x CR 15 imentesh rogue proteans
- 5x CR 14 naunet barbarian proteans
10) Energy Lords of the First Breach (M2): Two unique plasma oozes (built to be similar in concept to energons from 3e) form an EL 22 pair, a Huge-sized CR 20 mobile skald plasma ooze outsider, and a Colossal-sized CR 20 advanced caster with slow oracle abilities (possibly Outer Rifts and/or Spellscar mystery abilities). Both energy lords are feeding off the planar breach, enraging them both - lowering the rage energies coming from the breach can make the encounter easier or less wild magic trait effects.
- 1) Who instigated the soul gem plot? Who wishes to bring about the downfall of Asmodeus/the Devil Tyrant?
- 2) What is the location of the other soul gems (up to five or more, in total)? What is the ultimate result of the ritual which will use the soul gems? Does it harm or benefit Asmodeus, and is it just another deception?
- 3) What was the ultimate plan of the dark folk, and who leads the group from the Shadow Plane and other worlds/realms?
- 4) What will be the impact of the actions by the PCs in the feuds between rival elemental groups, and will there be any new results?
- 5) Possible expansion of the arena scene (Coliseum Morpheuon), and additional plot hooks, especially concerning the war between the titans and deities.
- 6) What is the outcome of the PCs actions upon the planar breaches, and the planes to which they were connected?
- 7) Are the Energy Lords the true dual-deities of the protean race, or is there yet another, more powerful force which they worship/revere?
- 8) Possible continuation: The original titan, creator of the breaches of the Shimmering Way, could be tracked down and slain to prevent more destruction. Hekatonkheires antipaladin CR 30 + MR 10.
- 9) Possible continuation: joining the crusades against rival titans (Elysian Titans vs. Thanatotitans).
- 10) Possible continuation: What happens if the destruction cultists are successful in the first step of their plan to destroy all the planes?
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Looking at the outline:
1) You're braver than I am by starting out at such high of a level. I much prefer to start people at low to middling level (4-8 typically) just to allow for some lower level adventuring and the concomitant character development that the time spent allows before throwing the PCs into the full grander scale elements of a campaign. I've got no experience with mythic PCs (as opposed to antagonist NPCs or monsters) in actual play, so I can't help out much there.
2) Normally, something from the elemental planes of the Inner Sphere affecting things in the Outer Sphere would be a bit rough IMO, just given the seriously vast intervening distance through the Astral between the surface of the Outer Sphere and the Inner Sphere. But the use of artificially established portals (tears in the fabric of space in this instance) is nice.
3) Are the praying proteans attempting to stop or accelerate the activity of those portals? Having multiple -and not necessarily actively aiding each other- groups of proteans might be nice to see, given the very much non-monolithic protean chorus structure.
4) Don't make the Maelstrom just seem like a wilderness with random encounter rolls. Give a region a theme and adjust that over time to show it shifting either slowly or not so slowly, and influenced by whatever other planes are nearby (if in the Maelstrom shallows) or have it be completely crazy. In the words of your friendly-just-happening-to-wander-by-imentesh, "The Cerulean Void is everything/nothing is constant except for the expectation of inconsistency and oh even not never ever that little mortals. Dance on the cusp of shooting stars a pleasant view of crumbling realities melding/merging/digesting/dyinglivingdyinglivingagain... but this has nothing to do with why you're here hearing my laughing thoughts/poetry in your brains such hissing lovely words on fleshy cerebrums a consistency of pudding... so sorry to ramble cannot help myself/You asked directions?"
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1) You're braver than I am by starting out at such high of a level.
I've got no experience with mythic PCs (as opposed to antagonist NPCs or monsters) in actual play, so I can't help out much there.
Yay, bravery! Wait, does this mean that I actually gained levels in fighter? Sweet!
Clearly, the entire thing would need to be playtested properly and then revised for balance and concept. I should really spoiler the rest of this.
2) Normally, something from the elemental planes of the Inner Sphere affecting things in the Outer Sphere would be a bit rough IMO, just given the seriously vast intervening distance through the Astral between the surface of the Outer Sphere and the Inner Sphere. But the use of artificially established portals (tears in the fabric of space in this instance) is nice.
Silly mortals, attempting to understand the infinite by using linear distance!
I made each major encounter around a central site or elemental dominance that is part of the underlying transition between these connected ancient portal sites. That way, there is a theme - it can be varied - it can be abandoned - and the PCs are still high level and adventuring where they want to go.
3) Are the praying proteans attempting to stop or accelerate the activity of those portals? Having multiple -and not necessarily actively aiding each other- groups of proteans might be nice to see, given the very much non-monolithic protean chorus structure.
Agreed. So far, undetermined, but protean groups will be placed on the random encounter tables nearer to that scene. It is possible that the proteans are unaware or complacent about the nature of the portals, being more concerned about worshiping the mythic energy beings inside the asteroid cave. (Looking forward to drawing that map.) Also, please notice I tried to make some cool focal point scenes where 3d movement can be used (aquatic and aerial regions), so everybody's cool abilities, spells, and similar stuff can be worthwhile to everyone. Also, I love Cerulean Seas.
4) Don't make the Maelstrom just seem like a wilderness with random encounter rolls. Give a region a theme and adjust that over time to show it shifting either slowly or not so slowly, and influenced by whatever other planes are nearby (if in the Maelstrom shallows) or have it be completely crazy. In the words of your friendly-just-happening-to-wander-by-imentesh, "The Cerulean Void is everything/nothing is constant except for the expectation of inconsistency and oh even not never ever that little mortals. Dance on the cusp of shooting stars a pleasant view of crumbling realities melding/merging/digesting/dyinglivingdyinglivingagain... but this has nothing to do with why you're here hearing my laughing thoughts/poetry in your brains such hissing lovely words on fleshy cerebrums a consistency of pudding... so sorry to ramble cannot help myself/You asked directions?"
And the stuff. Of the things. With those ideas. The cool ones. ;) I'll make a map. It will be nice.
Seriously, though, given the major focus of the "natural hazards" and weather-like phenomena, wild nature of the plane, and purposefully staying away from other major sites after leaving the city of Utopia/Axis - isn't it exactly like a wilderness, in many ways? This would really just be adding a new series of connected locations into a big open vast, rather than trying to tie in anything nearby (save for the first and primary motivator in the story). I was sort of hoping to make the Shimmering Way a new region/sites, and trying to make it really big, old (meaning its influence could be bigger than is easily imaginable), and hopefully at least a little bit undefined. I planned on putting up the original path of the mythic titan that made the breaches, and putting it into the continuation of the adventure.
Please trust me when I say I am not cataloging all of the elemental and astral/ethereal themed creatures in the Bestiaries for no good reason. Madness, yes, but with a methodology.
Air/Sky, Deadly Vapors, Deep Earth, Fey Grove, Fire, Fungal Caverns, Glacier/Mountain, Smoke/Mist, Verminous Pit, Volcanic, Water; also, Invading Outsiders, Astral/Nightmare, Ethereal/Shadow
Any other more specific suggestions about the Maelstrom itself? Or even other regions/interactions?
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This adventure is currently in production. More to come soon.
-will
Farseeker - from Krewe of Harpocrates
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Mythic Solutions will help you greatly in adding mythic to this adventure.
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Listed. This adventure material won't include anything mythic that isn't already featured in Mythic Adventures, or made explicitly for the adventure's scenes. In any case, thank you for the recommendation.
I am hoping to have Part 1 available for playtest soon, but we have experience multiple setbacks the latter portion of this year, so it's taking much longer than expected. Luckily, I won't release garbage, so it should be pretty decent. ...Especially for people looking for Wild Magic and related content, all in one place. Plus, I am adding rules for forming and controlling Stable Limbo - so you know, there's that. ;)
The diagram for Utopia/Underfoot is already done, and looking nice: this image.
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Since I don't think I mentioned it anywhere else, it is worthwhile to mention that my concept of creating and applying planar traits, hazards, and other environmental effects in a method similar to that employed in the 3e OGL product, 'Portals & Planes' by Fantasy Flight Games. I have had this hardcover product for years, and have enjoyed using it to inspire new planar effects and hazards for many years - it uses an incremental strength (None, Faint, Weak, Moderate, Strong, and Overwhelming) to produce variable effects for a wide array of Average Player Level (APL).
And, since that was one hell of a long hiatus for me on this project, I will say once and for all, that I am back at it. The announcement of the future release of Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Planar Adventures have helped spear me in the side to spur me on, making the choice to move forward an inevitable one (choosing ascension over death). Something tells me I will be wasting too much time working on material that will be eventually overruled by the core game mechanics in that product. But I will try to do it first, anyways. I am stubborn like that. More likely, I will include the basics, and some fun additions I can't live without, and wait to see just how much of it is included in the Planar Adventures content - then revise and fill in the blanks.
A big part of making sure this whole thing would work out was making sure the art/maps were in place to help properly tell the story. With the first segment of that nearing completion enough to feel good about it (Campaign Intro + Scenes 1-3), I am determined to get this thing rolling once more. A free art map product will be coming together soon, and will include one of the encounter maps from this adventure segment as a teaser supplement.