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Hello everybody,
I'm making a core fighter that uses the orc double axe as his primary weapon.
What I"m wondering is feats progression. My primary stats are
Half orc (treats all orc weapons as martial)
STR 18
Dex 16 (will use first lvl 4 point for this to use improved)
I already have two weapon fighting and iron will (wis 10)
I will be going down the two weapon tree primarily to get improved, and defensive two weapon fighting.
Should I get power attack and weapon focus. and in what order? general advice.
Also I have not chosen traits yet.
And on another note, does mithril price for the items regular weight (500gp/lbs) or by the weight it will be with the mithril.
Generally, Power Attack is not a good trade off for two weapon fighters: you take the full penalty on all attacks but only get half the benefit on your off hand.
With an 18 strength, I'd recommend Double Slice early on, and Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are nice when you're using a double weapon (or the same weapon in each hand). You can pick up Weapon Specialization at level 4, assuming you have Weapon Focus.
(Is the Orc Double Axe also in Core? It's listed as being from Ultimate Equipment on Archives of Nethys, but it could have been reprinted from Core.)
Use the original weight for pricing with mithral.
I second Dorothy on Power Attack not being a priority. You'll want to rely on static bonuses like Weapon Specialization and Weapon Training for your damage boosts. For those times when you get a single attack, it could be good though.
I'd recommend toning down Dex to 15. You can work toward a belt of physical perfection +2 to get where you need to be for ITWF. And that frees up 3 build points for shoring up your Con and Wis for survivability, or Int for out-of-combat utility.
I'd go with Weapon Focus at level 2, and Weapon Specialization at level 4. For level 3, maybe Power Attack, but it's probably overkill until level 5 or so.
I'm gonna have to disagree.
I believe that power attack with a Str18, and the Orcish Double Axe is a solid early choice. I'd say second level.
Double slice ASAP is a good choice, that much I agree with. It simplifies the math. My recommendation would be first level with Two Weapon Fighting.
your mileage may vary.
So if I get the belt it is legal for me to get itwf? Thought it had to be the base score...not an enhancement...cause if the belt ever comes off its an illegal build isn't it?
to the best of my understanding, you are correct:
You may use magic items to qualify for a feat,but if those items cease to function, you loose access to that feat.
So if I get the belt it is legal for me to get itwf? Thought it had to be the base score...not an enhancement...cause if the belt ever comes off its an illegal build isn't it?
It doesn't become an illegal build: you just lose the benefit of that feat (and any feats based on it) until you restore the belt. (I thought there was an FAQ on this, but I can't find it.)
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Alright did a bit more research. Ya the belt gives a temporary bonus for the first 24 hours, then becomes in a way a permanent (as long as it worn I'm guessing, doesn't specify) enhancement.
As for the mithral, I'm convinced its the weight of the item as if its already mithral (half normal weight for item) because its being made out of the material and not added to the original item. (only does this for everything other than armor and shields which have a set increase).
So an item that weighs 16 lbs regular would weigh 8 lbs when made out of mithral and that is where the price is.
from PRD "An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals."
Table:
Light-1k
Med-4k
heavy-9k
Shield-1k
Other items-500/lb
And like Adamantine, it doesn't matter if its a double weapon or not since its not called out like silver and cold iron per head in their descriptions.
Right or wrong?
And thanks for the insight with the belt, I will lower my dex and boost at least one suffering stat.
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As for the mithral, I'm convinced its the weight of the item as if its already mithral (half normal weight for item) because its being made out of the material and not added to the original item. (only does this for everything other than armor and shields which have a set increase).
So an item that weighs 16 lbs regular would weigh 8 lbs when made out of mithral and that is where the price is.
...
Right or wrong?
Wrong according to the official FAQ on mithral pricing.
If ever rules text seems ambiguous, check for FAQs and errata on it.
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Thanks for the link kelly, still think its straight backwards since your not adding to the weapon like with masterwork or cold iron or whatnot, but making it out of a completely separate material.
But since I can't argue it with a FAQ, I'm just gonna make it out of adamantine, 3000 instead of 5300 and woe to all the golems about.
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Tog scratches head.
"Tog also CORE double axe wielder and told told to cooperate. So Tog here to add some tips."
"Tog is Protector of the Great Vault and nice and strong, 18 make good strength number because get +6 on single attack or +4/+2 on 2 attacks. Double slice might be nice to simplify math nut not actually that great a bonus, luckily Tog not have to do math self, player does that for Tog."
Tog scratches his head a big more.
"Tog like 15 dex, nice AC bump, not too many 'build points' whatever those are. Tog is frequently told he is surprisingly cuddly. Tog knows he's not too bright. Maybe you be wiser but less cuddly. Tog like his snuggles and thinks Abadar likes Tog to be snuggly too."
Tog scratches his head a final time.
"Even if you not cuddly, is nice to have friends. Tog's friends got him wand of curing after his first adventure. After his second they got Tog a nice shinny master-work double axe. Tog thinking about asking for a darkwood bow next, Tog getting tired of wasting time loading sling. Also arrows make more satisfying sound."
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Tog scratches head.
"Tog also CORE double axe wielder and told told to cooperate. So Tog here to add some tips."
"Tog is Protector of the Great Vault and nice and strong, 18 make good strength number because get +6 on single attack or +4/+2 on 2 attacks. Double slice might be nice to simplify math nut not actually that great a bonus, luckily Tog not have to do math self, player does that for Tog."
Tog scratches his head a big more.
"Tog like 15 dex, nice AC bump, not too many 'build points' whatever those are. Tog is frequently told he is surprisingly cuddly. Tog knows he's not too bright. Maybe you be wiser but less cuddly. Tog like his snuggles and thinks Abadar likes Tog to be snuggly too."
Tog scratches his head a final time.
"Even if you not cuddly, is nice to have friends. Tog's friends got him wand of curing after his first adventure. After his second they got Tog a nice shinny master-work double axe. Tog thinking about asking for a darkwood bow next, Tog getting tired of wasting time loading sling. Also arrows make more satisfying sound."
Hilarious
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I would disagree with most of the other posters and say don't wait on Power Attack. Gives you a nice punch on a charge or any other times TWF isn't an option. Don't forget that you can swing a double weapon as a two-hander to get the full benefit in those situations.
Two-Weapon Defense is a trap. Better off just taking Dodge if you need extra AC, and even that isn't your best use of a feat. Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, etc. do double duty on a double weapon, so those are good picks. A front liner really can't go wrong with Toughness.
Remember that if you hit with both of your attacks you'll get just as much damage out of PA as you would with a two-hander. With ITWF, you'll actually be getting MORE.
First off you're doing the same damage but you have 2 -2's instead of just one, so it's a worse trade. Second, with ITWF you're doing the same still, 2+2+1+1=6 to 3+3=6.
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There's unfornately a fair amount of miscommunication at paizo as published mithral items are priced based on the mithral weight, but they come out with a faq saying they are based on iron weight. I use the correct price in home games, unfornately for pfs we are forced to pay double cost. Anyway...feats
1- weapon focus, iron will (I wouldn't take iron will myself, but you want it so here it is)
2- two weapon fighting
3- power attack
4- weapon specialization
5- pb shot
6- improved two weapon fighting
7- precise shot
8- double slice
9- rapid shot
10- manyshot
11- two weapon rend
It'd be easy to fall into the usual trap of being the most bad ass axe fighter around. But one of the strengths of the fighter is proficiency with all martial weapons. Too few fighters take advantage of that. Too often I see a fighter stand there going it flies, I look at my greatsword and cry. Then they attack something next to them. I hit ac 38 and do 150 damage. Ok well that was 70 more than it had. Too much focus on one weapon is usually overkill and not being able to make ranged attacks can kill you. As a twf build, you have a good dex so your archery will be almost as good as your melee. Take advantage of that.
I'd start with weapon focus over twf. You'll find at first level that you one shot everything using a two handed weapon with 18str. So you'll never get to take your second swing until 2nd level where things might start to have enough hit points not to die in one hit.
Two weapon rend takes 11bab, same as greater twf, doesn't require the 19dex and doesn't take an extra roll at -10 to hit. Take it over greater twf. (I'm assuming retirement at 12, if you get to 13 then take greater twf)
If you want to have no ranged combat skill, then choose a combat maneuver or two and take those feats instead of the ranged ones.
for traits you don't need anything special. Maybe go for some more saving throw boosts (Indomitable faith +1 will, resilient +1fort). Or grab another class skill like diplomacy (ease of faith).
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I'm making a core fighter that uses the orc double axe as his primary weapon.
What I"m wondering is feats progression. My primary stats are
Half orc (treats all orc weapons as martial)
STR 18
Dex 16 (will use first lvl 4 point for this to use improved)I already have two weapon fighting and iron will (wis 10)
I will be going down the two weapon tree primarily to get improved, and defensive two weapon fighting.
First I will suggest you put your level all your level points in Str. Second Power Attack is nice however double slice is better for str base two weapon fighter.
I would recommend the following for a fighter.
1: Iron Will (Because you want it)
1 Bonus: Two Weapon Fighting
2 Bonus: Double Slice
3: Weapon Focus
4 Bonus: Weapon Specialization
5: Power Attack
6 Bonus: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
7: Improved Sunder (adamantine may as well use it)
8 Bonus: Improved Critical
9: Greater Sunder
10 Bonus: Greater Weapon Focus
11: Two Weapon Rend
My other suggestion is play a Ranger.
So you can by pass the required Dex. Starting with a Dex 15 and that's it. Now you don't get all the feet's a fighter dose. However even if you leave your Wis at 10. You can get a item by level 6 to cast spells. Cure Light wounds is on your spell list so you can automatically use a wand. You also go from a total of 2 skill points a level to 6 skill points a level plus bonuses. On the down side you will do less damage then a full fighter. Around 15 - 25 points per round at higher levels.
PFSP:
Having the ability to use the wand increases your survivability.
Increased skill points gives you a chance to do things out of combat other then standing their.
1: Iron Will
2 Ranger Combat Style: Two Weapon Fighting
3: Double Slice
5: Power Attack
6 Ranger Combat Style: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
7: Improved Sunder
9: Improved Critical
10 Ranger combat Style: Two Weapon Rend or Greater Two Weapon Fighting
11: Greater Sunder.