MM, that's not what I was saying.
To further Define it, when a normal Mark is passed over by Detect Magic, it also glows...you can just also see it normally regardless (not glowing).
==Aelryinth
On what do you base this assertion?
How the hell do you manage to cast Time Stop (a 9th Level Spell), Extended, Empowered, and Maximized (a +6 Adjustment). Even if you use a Rod of Maximize, that still leaves a +3. I'm reasonably certain there is a trait that would reduce that by one. That leaves +2. Short of levels 21 and up, I can't seem to understand how you make that work.Stormbolts are one of my all time favorite spells. Granted, they're ridiculously high level, but they're a 30' rad. spread lightning spell that does 1d8/level and stuns. All of that is awesome enough, but it's the fact that it's a fort save that is truly fantastic. It's one of the few Area damage dealing spells that are.
Sculpt sound is fantastic for getting around lie-detecting magic. It's much better than glibness, because you can say the truth (that you're a murdering cultist) but you sculpt the sound to say that you're a hero. Since you're not lying, the spell can't pick up on it.
Time Stop is one of the few spells that can be simultaneously extended, empowered, and maximized.
most people miss that liberating command requires a immediate action from the caster AND the target, thus preventing them from casting it on themselves to effect.
Magical Lineage takes care of Extend. Use a Staff of the Master and a metamagic rod to take care of the other two.
kind of like clerics trying to juggle holy symbols, shields and weapons.
Both weapons and shields can be holy symbols. So after level 1 it's seldom a real problem.
Holy symbols (and unholy symbols) represent a covenant between the mortal and the divine. They allow the most pious to call forth the power of the gods themselves. Whether used to smite enemies of the devout or to offer succor to the faithful, holy symbols erase all doubt that the gods have a plan for their mortal children. A channel focus is a garment or other object that incorporates a holy or unholy symbol, and has a special power when a member of that symbol’s religion channels energy through it.
There are consecrated weapons (+150gp) and sanctified shields (+100GP).
Magical Lineage takes care of Extend. Use a Staff of the Master and a metamagic rod to take care of the other two.You will of course have to grow a third arm to do this. It's probably not much of a problem but it is something I find a lot of people forget or skim over, kind of like clerics trying to juggle holy symbols, shields and weapons.
Good thing casters are beings of Fantastic Kosmic Power and can just *get* some extra arms with a standard action
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Magical Lineage takes care of Extend. Use a Staff of the Master and a metamagic rod to take care of the other two.You will of course have to grow a third arm to do this. It's probably not much of a problem but it is something I find a lot of people forget or skim over, kind of like clerics trying to juggle holy symbols, shields and weapons.
Why would they need three arms two hold two items?
To activate a staff, a character must hold it forth in at least one hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures).
And to use a rod you have to be holding it, unless the specific rod has another way to activate it.
Now, if they wanted to use that staff as a weapon, they'd have problems. But who is casting Time Stop and still worried about making a melee attack?
Magical Lineage takes care of Extend. Use a Staff of the Master and a metamagic rod to take care of the other two.You will of course have to grow a third arm to do this. It's probably not much of a problem but it is something I find a lot of people forget or skim over, kind of like clerics trying to juggle holy symbols, shields and weapons.
No third arm is needed. Time Stop doesn't have any somatic or material components, so you don't need a free hand to cast it.
Good thing casters are beings of Fantastic Kosmic Power and can just *get* some extra arms with a standard actionAt high level if you spend your first round of combat messing about with stuff like this then you probably wont get a second round.
Or y'know, precast it with an extend rod for 40ish minutes of 4 handing time.
Or just use a 9th level on Shapechange Extended via rod. Doing so give you Six Hours of happy free action polymorph fun times. No action economy loss necessary.
Although none of this is necessary since Timestop doesn't have an S component (which I totally forgot about).
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. . . Sadly, I've never played in a game that got past 9th. So I'm not even entirely certain what I could do to abuse Time Stop short of teleporting away. . . Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't use say, Fireball, but Delayed Blast Fireball would work with Time Stop?
If you're aiming to do damage, you can use DBF, yes. You can also put up damaging clouds, mage's sword, and various hand/fist spells all ready to go when time starts back up. You can put up a zillion round/level buffs, and place walls/terrain control spells. Basically you can set up the battlefield exactly how you'd like it, even if you're the one being ambushed.
Imagine jumping a sleeping wizard in his in room and an eyeblink later it's foggy, you're on fire, and the wizard is flying, mirror imaged, stoneskinned, and so on.
. . . Sadly, I've never played in a game that got past 9th. So I'm not even entirely certain what I could do to abuse Time Stop short of teleporting away. . . Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't use say, Fireball, but Delayed Blast Fireball would work with Time Stop?If you're aiming to do damage, you can use DBF, yes. You can also put up damaging clouds, mage's sword, and various hand/fist spells all ready to go when time starts back up. You can put up a zillion round/level buffs, and place walls/terrain control spells. Basically you can set up the battlefield exactly how you'd like it, even if you're the one being ambushed.
Imagine jumping a sleeping wizard in his in room and an eyeblink later it's foggy, you're on fire, and the wizard is flying, mirror imaged, stoneskinned, and so on.
Or you find yourself trapped inside a prismatic sphere with several high-level summoned monsters who are looking at you the way Homer Simpson looks at a donut. :)
On what do you base this assertion?MM, that's not what I was saying.
To further Define it, when a normal Mark is passed over by Detect Magic, it also glows...you can just also see it normally regardless (not glowing).
==Aelryinth
Oh, I dunno. Because it's magical writing, and would glow under a Detect Magic like any other spell would?
-- Aelryinth
Or you find yourself trapped inside a prismatic sphere with several high-level summoned monsters who are looking at you the way Homer Simpson looks at a donut. :). . . Sadly, I've never played in a game that got past 9th. So I'm not even entirely certain what I could do to abuse Time Stop short of teleporting away. . . Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't use say, Fireball, but Delayed Blast Fireball would work with Time Stop?If you're aiming to do damage, you can use DBF, yes. You can also put up damaging clouds, mage's sword, and various hand/fist spells all ready to go when time starts back up. You can put up a zillion round/level buffs, and place walls/terrain control spells. Basically you can set up the battlefield exactly how you'd like it, even if you're the one being ambushed.
Imagine jumping a sleeping wizard in his in room and an eyeblink later it's foggy, you're on fire, and the wizard is flying, mirror imaged, stoneskinned, and so on.
Which is the standard offensive tactic for the Spell.
==Aelryinth
[b]Time Stop is one of the few spells that can be simultaneously extended, empowered, and maximized.
Um, any Monster Summoning spell that summons a random number of entities.
Wall of Fire.Blade Barrier
Acid Arrow
Fiery Shuriken
Aggressive Thundercloud
Ball Lightning
Flaming Sphere
Shadow Magic and Demi-Shadow Magic, used appropriately.
Ice Storm and Volcanic Storm
I mean, Time Stop is unusual in that it is not a damage causing spell, because the variable is the duration.
But any spell that summons a randomized number of creatures for a duration or deals dice of damage over a duration can be extended, empowered and maximized. And if they are low enough level, you don't need 100k in magic items to do it!
The real trick would be finding a spell that Maximize and Empower could affect twice, i.e. something like variable damage AND variable duration and/or variable amount of things summoned. I can't think of any that satisfy the criteria.
==Aelryinth
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Walls of fire deal double damage to undead creatures.
per the standard 'deals x damage to undead' rules for holy water and the like, that means it has a 100% chance to affect incorporeal undead, as well.
They also do not allow a saving throw if hurled at something, and duration is Concentration PLUS 1 rd/level.
==Aelryinth
Maximized Extended is straight off 10 rounds.
Extended empowered would be 1d4+1, x2, x .5. Effectively, extended and empowered cancel one another out.
Your result would be 10 + 2-5 rounds.
==Aelryinth
Taking into account that all metamagics are applied to the base effect and don't feed from one another.
To my knowledge, this is incorrect, and there is no such rule covering it (excepting Empower Spell and Maximize Spell, which specifically call out how they interact with each other).
Metamagic feats "feed off each other" just fine in most cases. For example, an intensified maximized fireball at CL 15 would indisputably deal 90 damage.
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I think the order of operations stuff for meta-magic feats should probably be spun off into its own thread (probably in the rules forum).
I liked this thread better when it was 'weird spell side effects' and less 'arguing about rounding fractions'.
Taking into account that all metamagics are applied to the base effect and don't feed from one another.
To my knowledge, this is incorrect, and there is no such rule covering it (excepting Empower Spell and Maximize Spell, which specifically call out how they interact with each other).
Metamagic feats "feed off each other" just fine in most cases. For example, an intensified maximized fireball at CL 15 would indisputably deal 90 damage.
I remember during the 3rd edition era either reading something in some obscure book or something on the WotC site saying that Empowered Maximized stuff empowered the roll and then added to the maximum. So, a 10 CL Empowered Maximized Fireball, at least back then to my recollection, would deal .5(10d6) + 60, not 90.
But yeah, there's nothing in Pathfinder about that.
Walls of fire deal double damage to undead creatures.
per the standard 'deals x damage to undead' rules for holy water and the like, that means it has a 100% chance to affect incorporeal undead, as well.
They also do not allow a saving throw if hurled at something, and duration is Concentration PLUS 1 rd/level.
==Aelryinth
I see the description of it doing double damage to undead in the spell description, but what do you mean about it having 100% chance to affect incorporeal undead?
I remember during the 3rd edition era either reading something in some obscure book or something on the WotC site saying that Empowered Maximized stuff empowered the roll and then added to the maximum. So, a 10 CL Empowered Maximized Fireball, at least back then to my recollection, would deal .5(10d6) + 60, not 90.
But yeah, there's nothing in Pathfinder about that.
"Maximize Spell (Metamagic)
Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of a spell modifiedby this feat are maximized...
An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate
benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus half the
normally rolled result."
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Stone to flesh can be used to get rid of stone doors or walls.
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Stone to flesh can be used to get rid of stone doors or walls.
And maybe also emergency rations?
Stone to flesh can be used to get rid of stone doors or walls.And maybe also emergency rations?
That too!
Or seeing what happens when you turn a stone support column into squishy flesh. (Don't stand underneath when you try this.)
I suspect many of the transmute x to y spells have similar out-of-the-box uses.
Then there are spells so versatile it might make more sense to talk about the things they don't do, like polymorph any object or anything that summons/calls outsiders.
Using Prestidigitation as a light spell won't work. From the spell description: "prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects."
Thus, Prestidigitation can do nothing since Wish can duplicate or do just about anything (up to a certain level of power).
Since Light= "This spell causes a touched object to glow like a torch...", I'd certainly allow prestidigitation to glow as a candle. Thereby it doesnt DUPLICATE the Light spell.
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On what do you base this assertion?MM, that's not what I was saying.
To further Define it, when a normal Mark is passed over by Detect Magic, it also glows...you can just also see it normally regardless (not glowing).
==Aelryinth
Oh, I dunno. Because it's magical writing, and would glow under a Detect Magic like any other spell would?
-- Aelryinth
Which rule says any spell would glow under a Detect Magic?
I see the description of it doing double damage to undead in the spell description, but what do you mean about it having 100% chance to affect incorporeal undead?Walls of fire deal double damage to undead creatures.
per the standard 'deals x damage to undead' rules for holy water and the like, that means it has a 100% chance to affect incorporeal undead, as well.
They also do not allow a saving throw if hurled at something, and duration is Concentration PLUS 1 rd/level.
==Aelryinth
There's a general rule in effect that items that specifically harm undead ignore incorporeal miss chances when used.
The prime example is holy water, which has no miss chance against incorps and does full damage against undead.
A fire/spell attack that isn't force should have a 50% success rate against undead. But if the wall is dealing extra damage to undead, it should fall under the 'holy water' rule and ignore that miss chance.
==Aelryinth
Which rule says any spell would glow under a Detect Magic?On what do you base this assertion?MM, that's not what I was saying.
To further Define it, when a normal Mark is passed over by Detect Magic, it also glows...you can just also see it normally regardless (not glowing).
==Aelryinth
Oh, I dunno. Because it's magical writing, and would glow under a Detect Magic like any other spell would?
-- Aelryinth
Which rule says a Mark only glows magically when its invisible?
===Aelryinth
I think the order of operations stuff for meta-magic feats should probably be spun off into its own thread (probably in the rules forum).
I liked this thread better when it was 'weird spell side effects' and less 'arguing about rounding fractions'.
Order of operations is assumed to be in the caster's benefit.
So you'd first extend the time stop to 4,6,8,or 10 rounds, and then cut it by half, resulting in +2-5 rounds.
Which is clearly more beneficial then 2-5 rounds, divide by two, drop fractions, and then double it. Because then you get into arguments over whether fractions are dropped in the middle or at the end of the formula.
==Aelryinth
Okay. Not going to argue this any further, it's not worth the time. Not conceding. I don't agree that anything glows unless something specifies that it glows (such as the description of invisible Arcane Marks). You want to believe differently, go right ahead.
Absolutely nothing about Detect Magic says anything about glowing. You just know if something is magical, there is no visual indication. As such, only those things that specifically say they glow under Detect Magic glow.
By a strict reading of Arcane Mark, only invisible marks glows under Detect Magic.
This spell allows you to inscribe your personal rune or mark, which can consist of no more than six characters. The writing can be visible or invisible. An arcane mark spell enables you to etch the rune upon any substance without harm to the material upon which it is placed. If an invisible mark is made, a detect magic spell causes it to glow and be visible, though not necessarily understandable.
It specifies invisible marks glow under Detect Magic. No mention is ever made of visible marks glowing, so the default rules apply - Detect Magic doesn't cause anything to glow unless its specifically says so.
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Using Prestidigitation as a light spell won't work. From the spell description: "prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects."
Thus, Prestidigitation can do nothing since Wish can duplicate or do just about anything (up to a certain level of power).
Since Light= "This spell causes a touched object to glow like a torch...", I'd certainly allow prestidigitation to glow as a candle. Thereby it doesnt DUPLICATE the Light spell.
Y'know, I've always wondered that myself. Prestidigitation suggests it can do other things, but WHAT since everything is prohibited if you go high enough in the spell lists (Wish/Limited Wish). So then... why suggest it might do more?
That's why I've allowed it to create puffs of smoke enough to fill a single square or a candle flame or even modify other spells so that some minor effect is modified. Had a druid and wizard work together once with Flame Strike and Prestidigitation; the color change option in Prestidigitation changed the color of the fire to clear so it was essentially invisible and they snuck past a guard.
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Incorporeal miss chance is from 3.x, PF uses half damage.Not quite, things which don't do damage also have a 50% chance of failing against incorporeal creatures. This would include things like a Command Undead spell.
Ah, you're referring to the Incorporeal rules from the Universal Monster Rules in the Bestiary. Those do have that clause; it's missing from the description of Incorporeal in the CRB glossary. The UMR version is much more detailed though, so that's probably the best source.
As shiny details go: not all incorporeal creatures are immune to critical hits. Only creatures with the incorporeal subtype (which also grants the incorporeal SQ) are immune, and Ghost Touch negates that.
Spreading the defintion of Incorporeal across three areas makes these rules kind of obscure.
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In 2nd ed a player cast command at an enemy cleric that was casting through an open window. His word was, 'Jump!'.
He hoped it would make her jump through the window, but she just jumped up and down for a round.
In the days when you could use any word (rather than choosing a word from a list), my go-to word was, 'Masturbate!'
They drop their weapons to...er...get access, and then their hands are *ahem* full. Effectively a no-save 1st level auto disarm and stun.
You might have to use a word which means the same thing but with fewer syllables, depending on the intelligence/vocabulary of the target.
I wonder why the newer editions forced you to choose a word from a list...?