I'm looking for a full BAB appropriate way to get as much of the flavour and mechanics of a warrior endowed with heavenly power.
Preferably with charisma based powers.
Warpriest gets really danged close but slips up on the BAB and wisdom, fighter is too restrictive for supernatural power and I hate Ranger as a class. Maybe Swashbuckler with some divine jazz mixed in somehow?
I'd like to avoid houserules as much as possible but that doesn't mean some minor infractions on normal PF rules aren't useful as suggestions, just please come with a better option than "just play a paladin and ignore the alignment requirement."
Thank you in advance
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A Celestial Bloodrager might be what you want.
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It has a weird requirement, but the Chevalier prestige class might be what you are looking for, and they outright get smite evil at the third level.
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Pre-PFRPG, in Children of the Void (a Second Darkness Chapter) Paizo released the Chevalier. This suffers from having too many things crammed into too few levels (the whole class is a 3 level dip), but it is full BAB, and its 3rd level gives you Smite Evil 1/day using your full character level as your effective Paladin level (unfortunately, no feat seems to exist to get more Smites).
For an actual PFRPG option, Deliverer Slayer gets a semi-Smite (does bonus damage but doesn't automatically overcome DR, but on the other hand doesn't have a useage per day limit, just doesn't let you use more than once simultaneously even if you can maintain multiple Studied Targets).
Cavalier/Samurai has its own type of semi-Smite (does bonus damage but doesn't automatically overcome DR, and has limited uses/day; on the other hand, some of the other class features can make up for this).
Celestial Bloodrager is a pretty decent idea I had not considered, the only thing I don't like about it is ironically the actual blood-raging itself, kinda doesn't mesh with the more calm tone I'm looking for.
How bad is a Bloodrager that just flat out ignores his Bloodrage class feature?
For reference the paladin kit I'd most LIKE to emulate would be:
Lay on Hands and some limited spell-casting.
But thanks for the suggestions so far I am certainly not dismissing them, just curious what else MIGHT be an option.
Why does it need to be full bab? But celestrial bloodrager fits your Bill.
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Celestial Bloodrager is a pretty decent idea I had not considered, the only thing I don't like about it is ironically the actual blood-raging itself, kinda doesn't mesh with the more calm tone I'm looking for.
How bad is a Bloodrager that just flat out ignores his Bloodrage class feature?
Pretty bad. There's no reason why you have to RP your character as entering a frothing rage though, I've played plenty of Barbarian-types that don't "rage" when they use their rage class feature.
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Pretty bad. There's no reason why you have to RP your character as entering a frothing rage though, I've played plenty of Barbarian-types that don't "rage" when they use their rage class feature.Celestial Bloodrager is a pretty decent idea I had not considered, the only thing I don't like about it is ironically the actual blood-raging itself, kinda doesn't mesh with the more calm tone I'm looking for.
How bad is a Bloodrager that just flat out ignores his Bloodrage class feature?
Yes, better to reskin the bloodrage as celestial trance and say that she get calm and serene when using bloodrage. Clam, serene and dangerous!
Probbably the best option yes.
Curious now though, say I settle for 3/4 BaB superior Darling, what would your suggestions be?
The full BaB is more a "would be REALLY cool to have" thing than a must.
I guess celestial melee "warrior first, priest second (or not even that priestly, just celestial flavoured)" is the most important.
Cha powered is I think the "Must" more.
Probbably the best option yes.
Curious now though, say I settle for 3/4 BaB superior Darling, what would your suggestions be?
The full BaB is more a "would be REALLY cool to have" thing than a must.
I guess celestial melee "warrior first, priest second (or not even that priestly, just celestial flavoured)" is the most important.
if you want a Charisma focus you open up for oracles, several of the mysteries can be good melee types and the heavenly powers are build in. Also the warpriest even if his powers are based on wisdom you dont have to dump Charisma. The evangalist cleric with his bardic performance is also a strong battlefield precence, again the spells come from wisdom but he even get some benefit from charisma, with channeling). A blackblade magus could be the wielder of a Sacred sword and that could be the reason for his powers, that opens up for good GM player interaction. Inquisitor would allow you to use wisdom as Charisma on the 3 central skills and there by feel like a cha based character, depending on your GM.
Edit: It is also possible that you can use VMC to get celestial flavor on a daring champion cavaleir or a normal cavaleir.
The Divine Hunter Archetype (Hunter) and Champion of the Faith (Warpriest) each get a little bit of Celestial or Paladin flavor.
Those do sound tantalizing, Major Darling.
I'm going to start doing some sample builds for myself now I think with the (possibly steelblooded) rager and the oracle first to see where I end up. (maybe also give the warpriest a third readthrough)
Many thanks, though if anybody else has any more ideas of course, keep em coming. I've still got 2 days to finalize the character.
Fighter or celestial bloodrager with Paladin VMC? You wouyld still have to abide by the Paladin code but you would not have to be Lawful Good.
If you go celestial bloodrager there is nothing wrong with just vengeance fueled by 'divine wrath' as your 'bloodraging'. Thinking over the evils done to the innocent and helpless just gets his blood boiling till he focuses that righteous fury against evil.
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Steelblood Primalist Celestial Bloodrager is where it is at.
This will allow some full on Barbarian Rage Powers, and with the access to things like Spell Sunder, you can literally "destroy the evil" that is enchanting/dominating an otherwise good person, along with evil magic items.
Flavor the Bloodrage as a Divine State of righteous rancor. Not some screaming, frothing idiot. A cold, determined nemesis you become.
You are simply focused intently on the task at hand, to a degree that you are slightly less able to guard yourself as well. This is of no concern to you, for defeated foes, are those that no longer pose a threat to you, or your allies.
The Sacred fist can crusader's flurry with a weapon in armor, thus getting it closer to full BAB.
Some cavalier Orders make use of charisma.
Bards could fill this idea of melee with higher charisma.
Another option could be to use the unchained variant multiclassing and play a Cavalier with a splash of cleric.
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Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor. Studied Target gives pseudo-full bab, you still have access to the full Inquisitor spell-list with many paladin spells, and keep Bane for your "smite". Choose conversion inquisition to make yourself as much as a face as a paladin while being wisdom based instead of charisma.
For a non-spellcasting alternative, Deliverer Slayer is another possibility.
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Dude.
Order of the Star Cavalier. If you don't want the mount, pick up the Daring Champion archetype. Alternatively, go Order of the Star Samurai, and consider the Sword-Saint archetype. It's worth mentioning that Order of the Star STRONGLY benefits from a single-level dip in a class with the ability to channel energy, which will drop your BAB below full-level, but you can take a single level of Oracle (Life Mystery) or a Cleric of whatever CG deity you want and get half-level channeling progression (Charisma-Based), a few 1st level spells (Charisma-Based), a morale bonus to attack rolls based on your Charisma modifer few times per day, and really darn good saving throws against your challenge target.
It's one of my favorite orders/character builds EVER.
The dawnflower dervish also appears to carry some tones of general paladin-ish-ness.
Mostly, it doubles your inspire courages bonuses (but restricts them to yourself only) which get fairly decent damage (lets call this smite substitute here) and it has an ability that lets you cast a healing spell as a nonstandard action (instead, it is a move and a swift aciton combined), which lets you heal and do at least some damage at the same time.
Another interesting option not entirely along the lines requested would be an Iroran Paladin. While it can't be CG, it does indicate that your code is more about your personal path to enlightenment, and as such it should be appropriate for you. Still lawful adherence to a code, but that code could be different from the typical paladin code- thus, you might be able to justify disguise and deceit if you have appropriate reasons for doing so. I would love to see such a paladin playing the part of the Yojimbo
If you go the Celestial Bloodrager route, be advised that, with the exception of being able to cast Bloodrager spells while raging, his rage operates the same way as the Barbarian's rage.
That is to say, your Con score gets artificially bumped up until you get knocked down to 0 hp, then your loss of consciousness throws your rage away, which means your hp plummet even further, and to top it all off, your Con score margin of error between dying and dead just shrunk, too.
I.e., when they designed the Unchained Barbarian to gain temporary hp that don't suffer from those drawbacks, they knew what they were doing and addressed some real issues. So if that is or might be a concern for you, you might want to ask your GM about allowing the Bloodrager to use a rage like the Unchained Barbarian's (except, of course, still being able to cast Bloodrager spells).
Alternatively, the Barbarian has an archetype called the Urban Barbarian that lets the Barbarian enter a more controlled rage, featuring the ability to pick which of your physical ability scores get bonuses (including the ability to NOT pick Con). The Bloodrager does not have a RAW equivalent, but porting the Urban Barbarian's rage into the Bloodrager should pose no more difficulty than the Unchained Barbarian's.
Of course, I only mention it because that sort of thing is a concern for me. If it's not a concern for you, then the Celestial Bloodrager is IMO the easiest CG Paladin.
...
Although, since I mentioned Unchained already, I might as well throw "removing alignment altogether" out there.
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Raging Vitality also fixes the sudden-death problem Tectorman mentions.
I'd definitely reflavour the rage. I'm doing that for a LG monk/bloodrager right now and it's great.
For reference the paladin kit I'd most LIKE to emulate would be:
Lay on Hands and some limited spell-casting.
For Lay on Hands, take Spelleater and Primalist with the Lesser Celestial Totem. As a swift action, you can sacrifice a spell slot to regain (slot level * d8 + level) HP.
The bloodrager already has the limited spell-casting.
Consider dipping Oracle with the Lame curse for a few 1st level spells that scale well, ability to use things like wands of CLW, a Revelation, and immunity to fatigue at level 9. The speed penalty just cancels out your Fast Movement. EDIT: The Battle Mystery has some fun stuff in it, such as Battlefield Clarity or Surprising Charge, but Life Link could be a fun revelation that improves your ability to heal others - note that Spelleater grants you fast healing even without eating spell slots.
Curious why your chaotic character has a calm tone. Calm sounds more lawful or at least neutral to me.
Curious why your chaotic character has a calm tone. Calm sounds more lawful or at least neutral to me.
You're using the typical definition of chaos when the alignment chart means the philosophical one. There's no reason why a champion of the people who believes in freedom above all else can't be calm and introspective.
