What is your favorite level?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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I know it varies from class to class, but as a general feeling what level do you find to be the most interesting to play?

I've always liked 4-6. You can take a few hits from low level goons, alot of classes get serious powers by then, and you have enough cash and magic items to feel really dangerous.

Silver Crusade

9 and up

Liberty's Edge

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Pontchartrain Bridge from 007: Everything or Nothing, of course! You get to drive against traffic on a motorcycle on the largest bridge in the United States, and you're chasing Jaws in a tanker truck, and you get to P-P-P-POWERSLIIIIIDE under a jackknifed 18-wheeler! And just to show you how suicidally fast James Bond is driving, the camera fisheyes! Holy crap I need to play that game again

Oh. Umm... Pathfinder level. Whoops. Right around level 5. Your spells are powerful but not TOO game breaking, the party is durable, and everything starts to come together nicely.

Your party is competent, but not too competent. =p

Liberty's Edge

I've only played up to 9th level so far, but I've been really enjoying it. It's actually starting to feel like everyone is significantly powerful.


Snorb wrote:

Pontchartrain Bridge from 007: Everything or Nothing, of course! You get to drive against traffic on a motorcycle on the largest bridge in the United States, and you're chasing Jaws in a tanker truck, and you get to P-P-P-POWERSLIIIIIDE under a jackknifed 18-wheeler! And just to show you how suicidally fast James Bond is driving, the camera fisheyes! Holy crap I need to play that game again

Oh. Umm... Pathfinder level. Whoops. Right around level 5. Your spells are powerful but not TOO game breaking, the party is durable, and everything starts to come together nicely.

Your party is competent, but not too competent. =p

Level 20, because everything has come to an end, a bitter sweet ending, a time to celebrate the deaths of all those monsters you unfairly killed.

Not to mention looting hundreds of corpses all in the name of power.


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Between 8 and 10 for the most part.

That's generally when a challenging build fully comes together, especially if grown organically. Usually from there I'm at a loss for where I want to go with a character.


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Levels 14-16

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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8.

4th level spells for primary casters, 3rd for 6/9 casters, 2nd for 4/9 casters.

3/4 BABs get their 2nd attack.

2 stat boosts.

Can also multi-class interestingly by then.

4 or 5 feats.


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20(+)

It's the time when the character has reached their true potential, and can stand tall while shaking the pillars.


Either 5 or 8. They're both great for the power level I like to play at, and they both have their challenges and fun things to do. I despise playing above 12.


Puna'chong wrote:
Either 5 or 8. They're both great for the power level I like to play at, and they both have their challenges and fun things to do. I despise playing above 12.

You despise playing above level 12? I've heard many people complain about GMing above that level, but I'm very curious to hear why you despise play above level 12.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
Puna'chong wrote:
Either 5 or 8. They're both great for the power level I like to play at, and they both have their challenges and fun things to do. I despise playing above 12.
You despise playing above level 12? I've heard many people complain about GMing above that level, but I'm very curious to hear why you despise play above level 12.

Let me rephrase: I exclusively DM. My players also dislike playing above that level, but it happens occasionally for APs and the like (I've gone through CotCT three times now, plus a few other published campaigns in 3.5, etc.). The players don't particularly enjoy the modifiers that pile up, the bonuses and penalties, the buffs and debuffs, the 1/day item uses, the X/day item uses, the myriad equipment abilities, all on top of their feats, spells, and class features. I don't enjoy all of the paperwork that piles up, and I find myself just handwaiving things to keep things running, something I rarely if ever have to do at the level range I cited.

They're pretty efficient players, and I like to think I'm an adequate DM, but those extra seconds calculating everything or remembering miscellaneous things often make the game less about the story with quick, exciting combats, and more about reading through a block of additional stuff. So at level 5-10 or so, a combat might take around 30 minutes, maybe depending on the encounter and what all is going on. By level 12 and beyond, those combats start getting into the hour range, and since we only play in 4-hour chunks at the LGS, if our entire session consists of setting up, talking to an NPC, and then a single fight, it doesn't really feel as fun as going through 2-3 combats, a few interactions with NPCs/skill challenges/etc.

We also don't like the aesthetic once it gets into that third tier, the "Wuxia" or borderline superhero area. We like being somewhat grounded, and aren't so stoked on "LET'S FIGHT ALL OF HELL!!! BOOYAH!!!!" as we are "Oh, crap. It might snow? Did we prepare endure elements?"

So yeah. The amount of fun I have, and my group has, at lower levels is a stark contrast to the amount of fun we have at higher levels. And I'm perfectly willing and able to have adventures on the Plane of Fire, or take on an army of dragons, or have mysteries involving the byzantine machinations of mind flayers or 18th level wizards, or trying to cleanse Kyber from all the mean nasty aberration things; we just don't like those adventures.


Heh, if you don't like the more Wuxia/Superheroic/Pseudodivine nature of the high levels then there's nothing that can be done for it. It's great you and your group are in the same zone on this point.

I will say, however, that I've never found it that difficult to raise up a group of players from level 1 that master their characters as said characters develop, such that high level encounters don't take terribly long.

I've never had an encounter last longer than 1 hour, and usually much less than that. Maybe 10-20 minutes on average.


6 players, 1 DM. Let's say 6 rounds of combat. Let's say each player takes 1 minute per round. DM takes 2 minutes.

6x6=36 + 12 = 48 minutes.

Some might be shorter, some might be longer, but that's about an average. Now, we also are having fun joking around, someone might need to use the restroom or grab a drink, we could get distracted by something, etc. We only play APs, where there's plenty of time for characters to develop and evolve. We are able to spend months figuring these things out. It still takes time, something we're all limited on. We like getting through more content quicker.

So your group could be very different. I won't argue about whether we're having bad-wrong-fun or not.


No argument to be made my friend. We're both having fun in our own way.


2-8 i think

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

So far, 11th has been my favorite. We'll see how that changes as I get more 12+ experience.


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GoldEdition42 wrote:

I know it varies from class to class, but as a general feeling what level do you find to be the most interesting to play?

For me: The next level. Always.


1-5 is my favourite in Pathfinder. I prefer OSRIC games for high level stuff.

Silver Crusade

Hmmm...hard to say. I've almost never played levels 12-20, though I do love character design, so I've made a lot of characters in that range. I think, from a design standpoint, I love 17-20. Practically, I think it depends entirely on who you're playing with. As a player, if the GM has built the world and encounters to be suitably challenging yet let me be awesome, I'm happy at any level. As a GM, I love watching my players grow stronger, because it lets me pull out the cool stuff I've been waiting to unleash, so as far as that goes I always like higher levels.


Scythia wrote:

20(+)

It's the time when the character has reached their true potential, and can stand tall while shaking the pillars.

I Agree.


SmiloDan wrote:

8.

4th level spells for primary casters, 3rd for 6/9 casters, 2nd for 4/9 casters.

3/4 BABs get their 2nd attack.

2 stat boosts.

Can also multi-class interestingly by then.

4 or 5 feats.

This.


Level 3 to ~10.

Lower levels the PCs have too few hp and most classes only have one feat with an often very limited selection (many feats need BAB+1).

Higher up the balance just doesn't work anymore and too much depends on single rolls. (Init, saves vs SoD effects). And people that played martials until then start rerolling as casters.


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Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I agree, levels 3-8 are the sweet spot. Above 12th or so, things become so complex that battles take forever, and even if I like my character's powers, the game just seems to break down. This, from a player's perspective and 100 times more from a DM's side.
Also, once you get past 8th or so, there seems to be little point to any sort of investigation simply because there are so many ways to use magic to circumvent any sort of mystery in the game. Assuming you have competent spellcasters in the group. Martial characters remain fun longer, it seems, because of their intrinsic limitations.


Well there is a reason P6 and P8 exist. It is really a question of 4th level spells.

Any way out the, the spells that really change the game start coming on-line at 5th level. Teleport and raise dead change the entire feel of the game once PCs can casually cast them.

For caster I find that 8 is enough to fully flesh them out in a fun ways while martials are good through about 11. I agree with PFS's decision to cap at 12.

Overall though 8 is where many many great things come on-line.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
So far, 11th has been my favorite. We'll see how that changes as I get more 12+ experience.

Got to say I like the 3~12 range. Up through 15 is rather enjoyable.

But my main favorite would be the 9~12.


17-19, depending on what I'm playing and a GM who is proficient at running high level play.

For one-offs or with less experienced GMs, something around 5-7.


Mathius wrote:

Well there is a reason P6 and P8 exist. It is really a question of 4th level spells.

Any way out the, the spells that really change the game start coming on-line at 5th level. Teleport and raise dead change the entire feel of the game once PCs can casually cast them.

For caster I find that 8 is enough to fully flesh them out in a fun ways while martials are good through about 11. I agree with PFS's decision to cap at 12.

Overall though 8 is where many many great things come on-line.

One of my favorite 3.0 campaigns involved a group of all martial characters with limited magical items, with very limited spellcasting (from an arcane archer and a paladin). It stayed fun until 16th-17th level, since you actually had to worry about things like terrain and how you were going to get places since no one could teleport and flight was limited. It made it possible to have some fun adventures that involved significant overland travels in foreign lands. Teleport alone really changes the feel of a game significantly.

I like the 8-10 range best, although there are some fun adventures that can be had in the 16-20 range, you get a very different feel if casters are involved there.

Sovereign Court

Somewhat depends upon the class - but generally my sweet spot is 4-8ish.

By 4 every class has started to come into their own. All full casters have 2nd level spells, monks have barkskin, basic feat trees are being filled out, barbarians/bards have enough rounds to last most of the day if they're careful, and you can afford most items you may need for your build.

Past level 8 you start getting save vs deaths (lame), teleport (ruins many storylines), etc. And the players stop needing to be careful with many daily resources. (Rage/Bardic Performance/Challenges etc)


23


8-12


I like very low and very high. Around level 3 I think that you have enough staying power for interesting fights, and enough options that you can be creative. The mid levels I feel like are something of a grind. Everybody starts falling into a pattern. The fighter uses the same weapon, the caster use their favorite spells. Everything is pretty predictable. Then in the really high levels, around 14-15 a whole new game emerges. Thanks to high level spells, the PC's and their adversaries could be up to anything, and it becomes something of a chess game trying to second guess each others actions, counter them, and keep yourself alive.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Scythia wrote:

20(+)

It's the time when the character has reached their true potential, and can stand tall while shaking the pillars.

I think True Potential depends on the story. If your campaign is about superheroics, Wuxia, and above, you're right.

But if the campaign focuses on the more homespun and local, you can be reaching your "true potential" at 5-6th.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Weirdly, it tends to be ones with Garden in the name, whether it's Illusion of Gaia's Sky Garden or Sonic 3's Marble Garden. Castlevania: Lament of Innocence had a pretty nice Theater level, though. ^_^

I feel like I'm forgetting something...

Liberty's Edge

I hate levels 1 and 2. They feel like there is no wiggle room at all.

With levels 3-6 you're really just getting your feet wet.

Levels 7-11 is where things really get good.

Depending on the campaign, levels 12+ can either be just as awesome or a complete clusterf#@$. At that point many players start to have trouble keeping track of what their character can do, the table starts to slow to a crawl, etc. If everyone can handle their character's complexity (possibly with retraining to something simpler) then, as far as I'm concerned, shoot for the moon!

I think most of my good play time ends up at 5 to 11, though.


It's worse if you have a TPK and people bring in a new class. With no history working the data (or studying up on the powers) there is a TON of referring to sourcebooks/websites....the battles can take the whole night.


12-14.

As a GM nonetheless!

Liberty's Edge

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GoldEdition42 wrote:
It's worse if you have a TPK and people bring in a new class. With no history working the data (or studying up on the powers) there is a TON of referring to sourcebooks/websites....the battles can take the whole night.

Freddy the Fighter: ...So, who exactly hired us for this quest?

Amy the Alchemist: From what I remember, you got hired because Rando the Ranger picked a fight with some half-orcs and they beat him into blood paste. What a mess...

Rita the Rogue: Yeah, the two of us got hired after that dragon ate the cavalier and the brawler. What about you, Erik?

Erik the Cleric: You guys hired me after your bard slept with that succubus and got his soul sucked out, remember?

Freddy: So... the original four party members all died, and we got hired to replace them as they bit it.

Rita: I... guess this means we don't really have a reason to be on this quest anymore, then.

Amy: Yeah, you're right. Let's go to the tavern and get drunk. I can use the booze for alchemy ingredients, anyway. ^_^

Silver Crusade

12ish (10-14) as a player. For nearly all characters the pieces have come together. You can tackle some truly open-ended challenges, but "standard" questing isn't out of the option.

18 as a GM. I can really go off the map and pull out the stops on all sorts of ideas, including many ideas that aren't exactly "within the ruleset". Then I get to sit back and watch the beauty of a group of people with limitless options. At the same time, there's still some time to 20, and most things feel like there is still some limit, even if it is almost a theoretical, somewhere-over-the-horizon type of limit.


Anything between 6~12 is okay for me... 8~9 being the sweetest spot.

I do enjoy playing 1-20 campaigns, though.


7-9 because that's when any concept is in full speed ahead and firig on all cylinders. Further more it's where spells and martial characters are reasonably balanced to each other.


Hmmm

What am I? My answer will vary a bit depending on what class(es) I am playing but in general anything over about 6th is a good start.


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I like a good plumb bob, but a laser level is nice when you want nice, even shelving.


Renegadeshepherd wrote:
7-9 because that's when any concept is in full speed ahead and firig on all cylinders. Further more it's where spells and martial characters are reasonably balanced to each other.

Really?

I always feel level 7 is when the spells get silly. Spell levels 1 and 2 are mostly ok, 3 is already very strong but balanced by martials getting their 2nd attack at 6. But level 4 spells finally put at nail in martials coffins.


5.

You have a feel for the class, and are looking at whether or not to go into a Prestige Class...

Lots of cool stuff happens around this level.

Wizards get fireball.
Fighters get crapped on.
Ranger have spells I guess...

And so on.


***** 1st.

You need to be careful, maybe, but you are shiny and new. (Or not if you are playing as Middle-Aged or older). And you have so much to strive for. Equipment of the magical variety (likely non-existant) does not define you, and your mundane equipment can definitely make or break you. Masterwork equipment is a real treasure...

While I enjoy developed characters immensely I also like to develop characters, and to sometimes be surprised by what my own character does - either on the fly or in response to something.

I also like 2nd. A bit more power, and still feels like something is building. I've played in a few PbP's that started at 2nd to make us... not squshy. And some of the greatest TSR era modules were levels 2-4. Awesome.

****** In a game with no spellcasters: any level is good, because the game is good.*

* Pure unadulterated opinion. Not to be attempted at your home if it will in any way provoke arguments on relative merits of differing playstyles or campaign flavor/houserules.


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

***** 1st.

You need to be careful, maybe, but you are shiny and new. (Or not if you are playing as Middle-Aged or older). And you have so much to strive for. Equipment of the magical variety (likely non-existant) does not define you, and your mundane equipment can definitely make or break you. Masterwork equipment is a real treasure...

While I enjoy developed characters immensely I also like to develop characters, and to sometimes be surprised by what my own character does - either on the fly or in response to something.

I also like 2nd. A bit more power, and still feels like something is building. I've played in a few PbP's that started at 2nd to make us... not squshy. And some of the greatest TSR era modules were levels 2-4. Awesome.

****** In a game with no spellcasters: any level is good, because the game is good.*

* Pure unadulterated opinion. Not to be attempted at your home if it will in any way provoke arguments on relative merits of differing playstyles or campaign flavor/houserules.

Gross. Everyone is so similar at level one... ick. :D

2nd and up is way better. 3rd is where wizards are recognized as actual casters rather than just squishy tricksters. :D


Heh. I get you. :)

I guess I see lots of distinction between PC's even at 1st level. Armor and weapons; feat choices, skills, base class abilities. Even Racial abilities count for a heck of a lot of power fluctuation and variance...


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Heh. I get you. :)

I guess I see lots of distinction between PC's even at 1st level. Armor and weapons; feat choices, skills, base class abilities. Even Racial abilities count for a heck of a lot of power fluctuation and variance...

Cosmetically, sure, but you could make a first level bard with the 'rich parents' trait, give him heavy armor and call him a cleric.

No one would know.

Heck, you wouldn't even have to take the trait. You could just call him a cleric.

Could be an effective party healer for a few levels before they caught on, what with the no channeling and all... :D


2nd level for me. No question.

I hate that level one is goblins and wolves. But level 2 you have more confidence, you're still making your character background count more than your spell level... it's just a good time to discover the character you want to be.

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