Skipping


Wrath of the Righteous

Grand Lodge

I been reading these forums for a while and currently I'm looking for some feedback of what things or chapters do you recommend skipping, or things that your party don't took it with real excitement

So far we are at the Drezen Citadel and reading through the third book the hex discovery thing seems slow and I'm debating to remove entirely

Silver Crusade Contributor

It might not be a bad idea. The hexes' random encounters and one-fight-a-day are really bad when combined with the Mythic system's nova potential. Plus, the xp for all those encounters is totally unaccounted for.

That's where I'm at currently, and it's kind of a slog. :/


The hex exploration is probably the weakest part of this adventure, and quite possibly the entire path, from a story perspective. This is largely because the idea of going around and exploring feels so tonally dissonant from the theme and pace of the rest of the campaign (whereas in something like Kingmaker, the pace is consistently slower and it works much better).

I think what you need to do is drop the exploration and make it much more quest-based. Emergencies pop up on a timer and you have to respond to them as they come up. I kind-of did that anyway, and I wish I had just dropped the exploration part entirely and committed fully to that.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I would agree that you should try and keep the encounters specifically, but make it more directed. Say instead of the PCs stumbling on the Barbarian camp, have someone direct them there. Just ignore the map and have "intelligence reports" or "scouts" "tell" the PCs where to go. You can also keep the sandbox feel by giving lots of options and letting the PCs choose what to do first.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
j b 200 wrote:
I would agree that you should try and keep the encounters specifically, but make it more directed. Say instead of the PCs stumbling on the Barbarian camp, have someone direct them there. Just ignore the map and have "intelligence reports" or "scouts" "tell" the PCs where to go. You can also keep the sandbox feel by giving lots of options and letting the PCs choose what to do first.

You can skip all of Chapter 5. It's not relevant to the main story. In Chapter 3 and 4, the destruction of the Ivory Labyrinth (end of chapter 3), the midnight fane (start of chapter 4) and the mining operation (end of chapter 4) pretty much ends Baphomet's involvement in the Worldwound - plus Nocticula puts him on house arrest by setting off his one year "please don't kill me" counter.

You could just delete the whole Herald getting kidnapped thing and have Baphomet's speech at the end of Chapter 4 be more of a "I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids" and have him swear revenge, etc., etc.

Then you can move straight to Chapter 6 where the real climax of the story is. You can use the interim between Chapter 4 and 6 to do more PC story building, and control what levels you want the heroes to top out at (and when) during the conclusion.

And as others said, a bunch of the hexploration of Chapter 3 is unnecessary (and boring). You can make Chapter 3 more about building Drezen and RP.

Unfortunately, the PCs still need to earn about 10 levels and 7 mythic tiers in that time, so you need to find a way to feed that out. If you and your players are OK with just hitting "fast forward" and skipping levels, that makes it a bunch easier. I've done that with other campaigns, where we went from 11th to 14th to 17th level to focus on the key plot points.

Grand Lodge

isaic16 wrote:

The hex exploration is probably the weakest part of this adventure, and quite possibly the entire path, from a story perspective. This is largely because the idea of going around and exploring feels so tonally dissonant from the theme and pace of the rest of the campaign (whereas in something like Kingmaker, the pace is consistently slower and it works much better).

I think what you need to do is drop the exploration and make it much more quest-based. Emergencies pop up on a timer and you have to respond to them as they come up. I kind-of did that anyway, and I wish I had just dropped the exploration part entirely and committed fully to that.

yeah i was thinking the same, maybe to have Anevia explore and give the report back to the heroes and from then they can chose where to go next

Grand Lodge

grandpoobah wrote:
j b 200 wrote:
I would agree that you should try and keep the encounters specifically, but make it more directed. Say instead of the PCs stumbling on the Barbarian camp, have someone direct them there. Just ignore the map and have "intelligence reports" or "scouts" "tell" the PCs where to go. You can also keep the sandbox feel by giving lots of options and letting the PCs choose what to do first.

You can skip all of Chapter 5. It's not relevant to the main story. In Chapter 3 and 4, the destruction of the Ivory Labyrinth (end of chapter 3), the midnight fane (start of chapter 4) and the mining operation (end of chapter 4) pretty much ends Baphomet's involvement in the Worldwound - plus Nocticula puts him on house arrest by setting off his one year "please don't kill me" counter.

You could just delete the whole Herald getting kidnapped thing and have Baphomet's speech at the end of Chapter 4 be more of a "I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids" and have him swear revenge, etc., etc.

Then you can move straight to Chapter 6 where the real climax of the story is. You can use the interim between Chapter 4 and 6 to do more PC story building, and control what levels you want the heroes to top out at (and when) during the conclusion.

And as others said, a bunch of the hexploration of Chapter 3 is unnecessary (and boring). You can make Chapter 3 more about building Drezen and RP.

Unfortunately, the PCs still need to earn about 10 levels and 7 mythic tiers in that time, so you need to find a way to feed that out. If you and your players are OK with just hitting "fast forward" and skipping levels, that makes it a bunch easier. I've done that with other campaigns, where we went from 11th to 14th to 17th level to focus on the key plot points.

That seems like a very good idea, i prefer to maintain the pace and make like a cinematic fast forward, just need to keep reading all the stuff from book 4 and 5 and came with a good theory to do the fast forward.


My players found the army combats boring and not creative, but you are probably past those already.

They also voted to skip the rules based version of rebuilding Drezen. It had no interest for them. It is okay to have it happen in the background, but the paperwork is tedious and not fun for my group.

Likewise, the hexploration is present but really happens in the background - as they get clues to go do the set pieces, they 'explore' the hexes on the way (or on the way back if there is a sense of urgency to the quest). See my campaign journal for combining the random encounters with the set pieces to make them a bit more challenging.

We are at the end of Book 3, so I can't comment further forward, but I foresee us glossing over building notoriety in Book 4. It seems like a cumbersome mechanic and there are not (as written) too many ways to achieve...so I will probably run 2-3 set pieces and then have them meet N (or give them a clue about the mines).


I'm actually going to skip books 1-3 and 5-6. ;)

Or in other words I'm planning on splicing Book 4 into my Runelords game with the PCs going to the Midnight Isles to find information on where the Runeforge is located. I already integrated Mythic into the game, and figure the PCs being at only 2 Tiers but at level 13 should make things actually slightly challenging. It helps that I've four players and an NPC.

(My final plans are for Karzoug to have 10 Mythic Tiers, but for each "weak point" they eliminate, he loses a Tier. They should be level 10 and Tier 5 when they fight him (and a Mythic Blue Dragon and some other beefed up units))

Grand Lodge

Tangent101 wrote:

I'm actually going to skip books 1-3 and 5-6. ;)

Or in other words I'm planning on splicing Book 4 into my Runelords game with the PCs going to the Midnight Isles to find information on where the Runeforge is located. I already integrated Mythic into the game, and figure the PCs being at only 2 Tiers but at level 13 should make things actually slightly challenging. It helps that I've four players and an NPC.

(My final plans are for Karzoug to have 10 Mythic Tiers, but for each "weak point" they eliminate, he loses a Tier. They should be level 10 and Tier 5 when they fight him (and a Mythic Blue Dragon and some other beefed up units))

thats sounds very nice, will be very interisting how to the transition goes.

To be honest we are having a blast on books 1 and 2, but im seriously considering to remove book 5 and only keep some key encounters


I just made the hex crawls more of a deal, with environmental effects, weather rolls and random conversations during their time en route. Some of the minor battles needed to be plumped out with a few extra things thrown into it and I found my player really perked up when I let him actually claim some of the territory with his military forces rather than clearing turf that will automatically be ceded back to the enemy.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm curious being as I'm currently adding stuff to the hexploration section myself - how did you manage to let your player claim some of the territory, being as the territory is quite without defences and the demons can teleport in whenever? :-)


They hold less territory and more outposts, turning places like the barbarian's hold into places held by a few paladins and allowing forward patrols a place to stay and survive the weather. While demons can teleport everywhere, there's plenty of small settlements in the western reaches that have survived being literally within the Worldwound due to demonic inattention so a short-term claim to the east while the demons are focusing south makes equal sense.

Also there's been a significant hunk of time spent gathering additional personnel in Absalom via Teleportation Circle to Nerosyan (based off a story hook in the Absalom book stating that a particular woman had set up supply lines like this in secret) and then from Nerosyan to Kenabres due to a Teleportation Circle cast off a scroll and then finally by foot and by barge up to Drezen.

So there's some additional troops who can hold and patrol certain areas, including the rededicated temple and the Harnaste village remnants. Nothing huge, but enough to make it feel more worthwhile clearing the area. When they set off for later Hex Crawls, they can draw by these strongholds, maybe clear off a higher level menace or two, say hello to a few NPCs and then continue on.

Heck, the demons are also smart enough (well, some of the boss ones are) to pull back the higher level folks to encourage the army to spread out. Just throw in some Kithangians to assault the horses, stuff like that. Then they can pick them all off when ready.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Goody good, thanks. I've been thinking along those lines myself as well, and also though perhaps locating the weapon from this pathfinder society adventure: http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Weapon_in_the_Rift closer to Drezen might be an idea, being as that would give them a slightly larger area in which to perhaps have some mining operations and later some possible farming.

I'm going to let them partially cleanse the area surrounding Drezen, with the help of a crazy druid who in the process kills himself, thus resulting in quite some research being needed before the process can be repeated in other areas of the Worldwound, perhaps a few years after the conclusion of the campaign.


Yeah, that's a good point. I left the Weapon in the Rift where it is, but then used that as a good excuse for why the bigger demons are still in the Nerosyan area as they're busy trying to wipe out that building. However I can see a good argument for it providing safety for some of the spots further north east.


I am running book 3 right now. The exploration is my player's favorite part. I just don't let exploring less interesting hexes take much game time. I dislike random encounter tables, so I have a list of small designed encounters that are ment to inform the players about some part of the world. Maybe I am foreshadowing a future encounter or highlighting the strangeness of the place they are. An interesting encounter was a rain of frozen eyeballs. Easily dealt with, but it illustrated how strange the world is. Also, I was rolling on random encounter tables to tell my Druid what kind of eyeball he was looking at. One of the other players looked at me incredulously and asked me if I actually had a random eyeball table. My answer was yes, yes I do.

I made a large map that the players are marking up as they explore. It helps make exploration tangible and keeps both them and me from getting confused as to where things are, what has and has not been explored etc. I also added a lot to this book in terms of area to explore, plot lines, Player histories and more. Each of my players is tied by fate and blood to the world wound and the events surrounding the fall of Sarkoris. I cut a couple of smaller encounters that I could not easily tie to one or more of the characters, then added an ancestor's wizard's tower and trips to the Petrified Library and Greengrave. Great stuff and the players are loving it!


Wow, I'd love to see some of your random encounter tables as well as some of the plot seeds and histories and information you seeded around the place, like how you handled the wizard's tower or Petrified Library and Greengrave trips.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Same! I'd love to see what you've got. ^_^

I'm working on a side trek/dungeon to explain the dry Ahari river and let the PCs fix it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The GMG has a few random tables for interesting sites or featured areas. I rolled those ahead of time and them added something horrible or terrifying to them. Like they found a hilltop covered with beautiful flowers... that wanted to poison and kill an overly curious PC.

I also roll random encounters ahead of time and try to build upon the monster and the site to look for any idea synergy.


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They haven't actually gotten to Greengrave, Wizard's Tower, or Petrified Library yet. They will find the Family Crypt tonight and maybe move onto the next area.

More details spoilered just in cast one of my players comes poking around here, also for giant blocks of text.

Players:

PC Characters:
Saavedra Gods Can Die (Saa): Devil Spawn Tiefling Rogue, offered an alignment swap (LE to CG) when caught in the Wardstone explosion, joined party after 1st book
Sir Alden Fredrickson: Human Paladin of Iomedae, family is from Kenabres (and Sesker's Gully). Father's line has a tradition of heroic Paladins, Mother was a daughter of Terendalev.
Kiras Goldenleaf: 1/2 elf Cleric of Desna. From Kyonin, Human Mother fled the Worldwound when the Circle of Heirophants fell. She holds the key to unlocking the secrets under Spiral Hill. Kiras is Desna's great grandson. Melikaf's cousin
Melikaf Goldenleaf: Elven Magus. From Kyonin, Great Uncle was a wizard studying with the Living Library, designer of the original ritual to try to purify a Nyhandrian Crystal potion. His is the tower they will explore.
Gerulf: Human Druid of Gorum. From the Realm of the Mammoth Lords (Sarkoran refugee) Ancestors were from the same tribe as Areelu Vorlesh. Has sworn vengeance on her to Gorum.

Nyhandrian Crystal Purification Ritual:

Just before the Living Library and the Circle of Heirophants fell to the demons, a desperate attempt was made to create heroes that could fight back the demons. The Sarkoran Druids got their hands on one of the rare Nyhandrian Crystal Potions and designed a ritual to purify its power and infuse the participants with it. They gathered volunteers representing many different powers, energies, gods and magics. The best and strongest warriors gathered to be part of the ritual. As far as they know, the ritual failed. It killed most of the participants instantly and those that did survive were greatly weakened. The loss of Sarkoris' strongest protectors was the final blow. It fell not long after.

The ritual site itself will be an area of shattered lay lines, haunts, and twisted plant life. At the center is a gazebo where the Druid protector of this area turned himself to stone. I am pretty sure he will be a centaur, though satyr and treant are possibilities too. As I am writing it, it looks like it will end up a gauntlet of haunts, traps, hazards and obstacles. I added a wand of lesser restoration and several scrolls of restoration and heal to the treasure in the family crypt.

Mythic power in my game has only one source, Nyhandrian Crystals. It took mythic power to make the Wardstones. The sacrifice of St Clydwell was the catalyst for their formation. St Clydwell was a descendant of one of the ritual participants. Fighting the demons triggered his mythic ascent. The destruction of the Wardstones triggered my player's mythic ascent. Each of them is a descendant of one of the ritual participants. The ritual gave the children and blood relatives of the ritual the potential to awaken their mythic abilities. It didn't fail. It just took much longer than anyone had anticipated to do its thing.

General:

The players have been enjoying finding bits and pieces of this puzzle. They decided to steal and purify a Nyhandrian Crystal Potion at the beginning of book 3, so have already been to the Ivory Sanctum (tricked the location out of me, sneaky players!). The rogue has an amusing encounter with Jerribeth who she thought was just an elf. Fortunately for the poor rogue, Jerribeth was more interested in making a deal than squashing her. Also, I had Vang be able to scry through worms that were part of him. He had many infesting Drezen. The Magus even kept one in a jar on his desk. It took the Rogue and Druid (the ones who snuck in) a while after they were out to figure out that Vang was actually in his room as piles of worms, watching them dig through his desk and steal the potion he had planted for them. They had planned to use the Redemption Forge to reforge the potion (I had let them reforge an inflict potion into a cure potion, reasoning that you could put a potion in a crucible in the forge). Vang thought it would be great to have one explode in Citadel Drezen's basement. The PC's figured out that it might be a bad idea just before trying it.

They did use the incriminating papers they found to imprison Drezen's new commander. Since they enjoyed Nurah so much, I decided to add another traitor, the new commander's wife. She has everyone freaked out and scared of her. The players interrogated her and when I thought they were about halfway through they threw up their hands and decided that they believed her. I have decided that she will use her skills (Inquisitor Torture Master) to convince Arueshalae to use her energy drain on a 'traitor' Can't wait to see that play out.

Greengrave:
I don't have many specifics planned for this encounter yet. I need to make Shaorhaz mythic. Kiras decided to visit home and mention to his mother that he is heading for Greengrave, so she is freaked and went into hiding as soon as he left. I think the demon in Kyonin is going to capture her and trade her to Shaorhaz. She has the key to unlocking spiral hill.

Petrified Library:
Again, I don't have a lot planned for this area yet. I do want to throw some Siabres at the players and let them find a ritual here to purify the land of Abyssal taint. (powered by mythic energy of course)

Wow, that is a lot of information. If you want more, I can send you a link to my google drive folder where I have most of my stuff. I ask that you don't post the stuff publicly so my players don't stumble across it, but you are more than welcome to use anything you find interesting.


Ooh, I think you can see that I totally want more! :D


Keianna, I am digging your ideas. Would love the link to more.

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