warpriest 3 fighter 2 (feats)


Rules Questions


When I create a level 5 3 warpriest and then 2 fighter I know it states that for the bonus feats act as a fighter for prereq purposes but when i take fighter at level 4 would I be able to take weapon specialization? I found other forums stating that fighter and warpriest levels stack for prereqs. But when i splash the fighter can I choose fighter feats for level 4 and 5 for those 2 levels. Please give details bc my GMs seem to agree that they do but we all are skeptical. We like to try and follow rules.

Dark Archive

Warpriest levels ONLY count as Fighter levels ONLY for the purpose of what feats it can take with its Bonus Feats class feature.

Those Warpriest levels do not count as Fighter levels for ANY other reason.


"Finally, for the purposes of these feats, the warpriest can select feats that have a minimum number of fighter levels as a prerequisite, treating his warpriest level as his fighter level"

You could take weapon spec at fighter 1 and warpriest 3. 1 plus 3 is 4.

You can bold ONLY as many times as you like, but 1 plus 3 is 4.


Thank you for replies I can add but what I was asking is at character lvl 4, fighter lvl 1 on the fighter lvl do u guys feel I can choose weapon spec for his bonus feat?


No, not on the fighter level. With a Warpriest bonus feat, sure, but not with a Fighter one. Insofar as that feat is concerned, you have a Fighter level of one.


To me, yes. That's why I was doing the math in the first place. It's saying for the bonus feat your levels are fighter levels. You're allowed to be a fighter as well. So these would stack.

But only when choosing bonus feats for warpriest and no other time for him.


Thank you all for your help


Cavall wrote:

"Finally, for the purposes of these feats, the warpriest can select feats that have a minimum number of fighter levels as a prerequisite, treating his warpriest level as his fighter level"

You could take weapon spec at fighter 1 and warpriest 3. 1 plus 3 is 4.

You can bold ONLY as many times as you like, but 1 plus 3 is 4.

Actually, that RAW says your Warpriest level becomes your Fighter level. A Warpriest 3 would count as a Fighter 3 for his bonus feats; his actual fighter levels aren't factored in, meaning he wouldn't be able to qualify for Weapon Specialization at all. This is supported by the factor that there are several abilities which are class-level dependant having a clause that states [random class] levels stack with [other random class] levels for the purposes of [random class feature].

That language is missing here, meaning a Warpriest 3/Fighter 2 would still treat his bonus feats as a Fighter 3 for the purposes of qualifying for those bonus feats.


In a great many similar cases, like Flurry's "BAB is equal to Monk level" clause, the treatment is that BAB = Monk level for Monk levels only, you add in other classes normally.

So that reading is a pretty overly-literal reading that... honestly I'd be surprised if many GMs took.


I would disagree. They specifically call out that for the purpose of these feats the levels are treated as fighter levels. Class levels stack. In fact fighter is the base of the hybrid. So I can't see evidence they would not stack as they specially do say you can multiclass into your parent classes.


I agree with kestrel. The reading here is being overly literal. I don't think having fighter levels stack with a feat that states it counts as fighter levels is just RAI, it's both RAW RAI.


kestral287 wrote:

In a great many similar cases, like Flurry's "BAB is equal to Monk level" clause, the treatment is that BAB = Monk level for Monk levels only, you add in other classes normally.

So that reading is a pretty overly-literal reading that... honestly I'd be surprised if many GMs took.

It took a FAQ to answer that, and that's because people thought Flurry overwrote a character's entire BAB, and it doesn't, because it only treats the BAB he acquires from his Monk Levels as equal to his Monk Level, not the entire BAB itself.

Comparing Class Features to BAB is quite a stretch to say the least. It's not unreasonable, but there would be suspect table variation at the minimum, so YMMV.


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The problem in this case is the part that says he only counts his levels as fighter levels for the bonus feats when gained from his warpriest bonus feat choices.

At Fighter 1/ Warpriest 3, yes, he could take Wpn Spec. At Warpriest 3/ Fighter 1, he can't, as his fighter bonus feat.

This runs into a situation that they have explicitly tried to avoid, where you have 2 characters with the same classes and levels and the same number of feats where one has something the other can't have.

The ACG is one of the worst edited books they have come out with, so there are lots of places where this happens.

There should probably be a line that says they stack with fighter levels, now that you can multiclass with the parent classes which you couldn't do in the original version.

They had to do the same thing for the Armor training for another class, so that if you have it from multiple classes they stack.

As it stands, however, it would not work for the OP.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
kestral287 wrote:

In a great many similar cases, like Flurry's "BAB is equal to Monk level" clause, the treatment is that BAB = Monk level for Monk levels only, you add in other classes normally.

So that reading is a pretty overly-literal reading that... honestly I'd be surprised if many GMs took.

It took a FAQ to answer that, and that's because people thought Flurry overwrote a character's entire BAB, and it doesn't, because it only treats the BAB he acquires from his Monk Levels as equal to his Monk Level, not the entire BAB itself.

Comparing Class Features to BAB is quite a stretch to say the least. It's not unreasonable, but there would be suspect table variation at the minimum, so YMMV.

Not a stretch at all.

Let's start with some key points.

First, Flurry is a class feature. I'm comparing a class feature to another class feature. One class feature happens to affect BAB and one class feature happens to affect Fighter levels, but both are most certainly class features.

Second, if we're all aware that "it only treats the BAB he acquires from his Monk Levels as equal to his Monk Level, not the entire BAB itself." then why would we read the Warpriest any differently? Why would we not read the Warpriest as "it only treats the Fighter levels he acquires from his Warpriest levels as equal to his Warpriest level, not the entire class levels themselves"?

Now, let's break it down a bit.

The Monk says you get "BAB equal to Monk level". For the purposes of easy comparison, we have Monk 3/Fighter 1. Let's note, BAB is a thing that the Fighter class also grants.

So, if we take nothing but the words written on the page, we would assume that the Monk/Fighter flurries at BAB +3. And our argument would look very similar to yours:

Quote:
Actually, that RAW says your Monk level becomes your BAB. A Monk 3 would count as a BAB +3 for his Flurry; his actual BAB isn't factored in. This is supported by the factor that there are several abilities which are class-level dependent having a clause that states [random class] levels stack with [other random class] levels for the purposes of [random class feature].

But, we're told explicitly that this argument is wrong.

We're told that "X is treated as Y" doesn't account for the existence of an outside presence of Y.

So, we hit a situation identical to the Monk one. We have a Warpriest 3/Fighter 1. Fighter levels are a thing that the Fighter class also grants (identical to the BAB example above).

And if we take just the words written on the page, we would arrive at your conclusion.

But we've been told a nigh-identical case of this was wrong, and we can easily see that it goes against every other similar situation. Which is more probable: that the writer's memory was imperfect at exactly duplicating similar abilities, that one line of text was altered slightly to get the typesetting right (both things that you'll see multiple devs outright say happens when they comment on situations like this), or that somebody went out of their way and decided "Yanno what? I really, really don't like Warpriest/Fighter multiclasses. Let's make sure those are more terrible choices than they already are"?

I know which one I believe.


Again, it took a FAQ to reach that conclusion; before that FAQ, you ran into tables that ruled Flurry only functioned at Monk level BAB, and others which calculated the other BAB into the class feature.

You can spout that this instance is identical to that one all you like; quite frankly, there are rules that are identical to one other (for example, Wildblooded for Sorcerers is an Archetype, but would follow rules very similar to that of Sub-Domains), and yet they are still given the shaft otherwise (because Wildblooded is an Archetype, and not a Sub-Bloodline, you can't stack that with Crossblooded), whereas other things (i.e. Sub-Domains) that are similar in scenario and function aren't treated that way.

That is why I said YMMV, because the sort of things I and TGMaxMaxer brought up will be real issues when it comes to table variations, both in home games and in PFS; and unless FAQ'd like the Flurry BAB issue was, will result in people interpreting the rules differently from others (just like the Monk Flurry issue, which was solved by FAQ).


I'm really not seeing the confusion here:

IF the Character is Character Level 4...

IF he has ONE level of Fighter...

IF his fourth Character Level is Warpriest 3

THEN

He MAY choose Weapon Specialization as his Warpriest 3 Bonus Combat Feat, because in total he counts as having 4 levels of Fighter altogether for the purposes of that Class Feature.

HOWEVER

At Character Level 5, he CANNOT choose Weapon Specialization, because he only has 2 actual levels of Fighter.

The Bonus Combat Feat is a Class Feature of the Warpriest that requires certain conditions to be met, and allows for certain overrides to exist that normally don't.

He could Retrain to lose Weapon Specialization and then fill that Bonus Combat Feat slot with Martial Versatility instead, because the same Class Feature's requirements are met.

This is like the Ranger's Combat Style Feats: just because Combat Style allows the Ranger to take Two-Weapon Fighting without meeting the Prerequisites when he takes it AS THE CLASS FEATURE doesn't mean he can ALWAYS take Two-Weapon Fighting whenever - he MUST take Two-Weapon Fighting as the Bonus Feat granted by the Ranger's Combat Style class feature, or at least Retrain to gain it using the Bonus Feat granted by Combat Style later.

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