Poisonous Animal Companions

[Tangent101]

I've a question (well, a multi-part question) concerning poison and animal companions for Rangers and Druids.

As a ranger or druid increases in level, animal companions undergo an increase in their stats and hit dice as well. Given that some of these creatures are poisonous (such as the viper), does the DC for these creatures increase as a result? (It seems obvious that it would, as the poisons often are Constitution-based.)

If a Ranger or Druid were then to milk their Animal Companion's venom, would that poison be more potent for use when poisoning their own weapons? Or does the poison "diminish" as a result?

Finally, seeing the poison is a natural substance, would the Ranger or Druid need to use the Alchemy Craft skill to be able to use the venom? It's not like snakes and spiders need to use alchemy to use their own venom, so it's already in a condensed form. (Also, it seems that requiring the Alchemy skill to use these venoms would preclude goblins and other weaker humanoids (and even wild human tribes) from using poison on their own weapons that they harvested from snakes and spiders and the like.

[Onyxlion]

1. Yes, in general most poisons are 10 + 1/2HD + stat mod.* note this isn't the case under polymorph spells.

2. Yes as long as your GM allows, they may also require a craft check to properly "milk" them. This is mostly a homerule on a few existing rules.

3. There is no poison use skill you just use it under the using poisons rule, which may poison the user. Crafting isn't the same as using.

[Nefreet]

DCs of most poisons are 10+(1/2 HD)+(Con mod), unless otherwise stated, so yes an Animal Companion's Poison DCs can scale decently (though not as well as CR appropriate encounters).

"Milking" and such is really only a homebrew possibility, as far as I've read. Just go over it with your GM. Craft (Alchemy) still seems most appropriate, so you can preserve the poison for a longer shelf life and get it to stick to your weapon.

[Tangent101]

I am the GM. ;) I just like trying to keep things accurate to the rules in case I forget a previous houseful or the like.

Didn't realize about the hit-dice aspect. That would explain why the DC of the poison is higher than the constitution bonus (or lack thereof). Thank you :)

[Nefreet]

The DC of the poison is also the DC to craft the poison.

But stuff like amount per milking, and times per day, and such, requires a balanced homebrew approach.

[Corvino]

Being a little pedantic *BUT* you mean "venomous", not poisonous. The rules may describe them as poisons but the rules can be stupid.

If your animal companion was poisonous then if someone killed it and ate it they'd get poisoned. I hope this never happens in-game, poetic justice or not.

[Nefreet]

If this was real life, I'd mean "venomous".

But, since this is Pathfinder, I do indeed mean "poisonous".

[Hawiboo]

I believe that in 3.5 the raw material cost for crafting was halved if they were abundant in the area. I always took that to mean if I gathered my own poisons from local plants and creatures, I would still need a craft(alchemy) or (poison) check to refine the materials into a usable form (making it sticky for weapon application etc).

I don't know if this is mentioned anywhere in Pathfinder.

[wraithstrike]

Complete Adventurer allowed for a further reduction in poison cost if you were to craft it. IIRC, it dropped the price in half again so it went down to about 1/6 of the original price.

[Dethax]

I also have a question on the matter.

Milking venom states that while you can milk venom from an animal with the poison ability. It also states that you can only milk an animal equal to its constitution mod.

Seeing it this way would that mean that the animal can only use its venom/poison equal to its con mod? or can you only milk it once if it has 10 leaving it unable to poison, but leaving it with its poison it can inject said poison all day without losing it?

cause i cant find anywhere about this rule of poisons per day.

[Jared Walter 356]

Dethax wrote:

I also have a question on the matter.

Milking venom states that while you can milk venom from an animal with the poison ability. It also states that you can only milk an animal equal to its constitution mod.

Seeing it this way would that mean that the animal can only use its venom/poison equal to its con mod? or can you only milk it once if it has 10 leaving it unable to poison, but leaving it with its poison it can inject said poison all day without losing it?

cause i cant find anywhere about this rule of poisons per day.

I think RAW as long as you don't take the last dose, it can use its poison ability all day. Personally, I would house rule, so that it has daily uses equal to its con mod (min 1), and each dose milked reduces its uses until it rests. It makes sense to me that even wild animal need time to make more poison (venom).