Continuing to create our group for my RotRL campaign. Working on a human female inquisitor of Shelyn for my son's fiancé. Opted for a reach build, similar to KBrewer's guide for clerics - use standard action for spellcasting (or whatever other action necessary), then use AoO's to deal melee damage with reach weapon (in this case, a glaive).
PC entered clergy & quickly started climbing ranks, until accused of vandalizing pieces of rare temple art. The only one who believed she was innocent was the same acolyte the pc had tormented previously for being unattractive & thus unworthy of Shelyn. Together, they revealed the pc had been setup/framed by her mother, who was jealous that her daughter had become more beautiful than she was, and angry that her daughter would likely supplant her as high priestess because of it. PC experienced spiritual awakening as she realized true beauty is within.
After proving her innocence, was revealed the other acolyte was actually undercover inquisitor, rooting out corruption within the church. Agreed to train pc to become an inquisitor.
PC recently had a dream/vision of a great danger approaching, with the message she could help stop it. Later, she heard about the Sandpoint Festival & the cathedral dedication, & realized this was the place in her dream. With only a quick goodbye to her teacher, pc left her family behind & has arrived in Sandpoint just in time for the festival.
Other relevant stats:
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 12
Feat(s)
Combat Reflexes
Domain
Luck (although I also seriously considered Good)
Here are the traits we've narrowed down to so far;
(combat) Tactician
(magic) Overwhelming Beauty
(faith)Birthmark, Schooled Inquisitor
(regional) Paragon of Speed, Temple Guard, True Believer
(social) Charming, Suspicious
We also need the bonus human feat - top candidates include Power Attack, Toughness, Improved Initiative & Judgment Surge.
Any thoughts/opinions/advice on any of these greatly appreciated, as always.
Considering the Luck domain, have you considered Fate's Favored? Seems appropriate for Shelyn. :)
Considering the Luck domain, have you considered Fate's Favored? Seems appropriate for Shelyn. :)
Ironically enough, the Luck domain doesn't grant any luck bonuses - it's just a flavor thing...
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True, but the inquisitor spell list does! Divine Favor, Divine Power, Prayer...
Fate's Favored is amazing, especially with divine favor and other spells that provide luck bonuses.
Is there a way for a human to get the Half-orc's Sacred Tattoo alternate race feature? +2 to all saves is really nice.
You might want to go as an initiative power house. Take Improved Initiative, the Reactionary trait, and by 2nd level when you can add Wisdom to initiative, she'll have +11 to initiative, which is really useful if you want to self-buff before the bad guys attack you. It's also handy if you want to debuff or counterspell or ready other actions to mess with your opponents.
Inquisitors do A LOT of self-buffing, from spells, judgements, and a bunch of other class features, like bane. Being able to go first in the round lets you get a buff off before your opponents can attack you unbuffed.
You'll have to rule out Power Attack as it is unavailable to an Inquisitor at level 1 due to BAB requirement.
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I'd swap Str and Wis.
Inquisitors are not good offensive casters, which makes them combat characters and thus makes Str a melee character's primary stat.
Another possibility is the Conversion Inquisition instead of Luck Domain and dropping Charisma somewhat...though I can see avoiding that for thematic reasons, I suppose.
I'll also chime in that Fate's Favored + Divine Favor is amazing for Inquisitors, though I must admit if doing that I'd usually go Half-Orc and grab Sacred Tatoo.
You'll have to rule out Power Attack as it is unavailable to an Inquisitor at level 1 due to BAB requirement.
Forgot about that - good catch!
I'd swap Str and Wis.
Something I had wondered about, since she'll be the 2ndary melee character, after the Invulnerable Rager barbarian. A 14WIS should be do-able since she'll only need a 16 (eventually) for spellcasting, & most of her spells probably won't require saves.
True, but the inquisitor spell list does! Divine Favor, Divine Power, Prayer...
Something else I hadn't thought of - spells with a luck bonus. Hmmmm....
I must admit if doing that I'd usually go Half-Orc and grab Sacred Tatoo.
She's already picked out a picture to go with the character concept, & 'prettiness' was definitely a factor, so no half-orc, lol.
Great suggestions/advice so far! Any thoughts on the 2nd feat, & perhaps some of the other traits I suggested?
Melee character with a d8 hit die and 13 Con? Yeah, I'd pick Toughness.
Second the others on Fate's Favored, and swapping Str and Wis. With 14 starting Wis, that gives you until level 7 to pick up a +2 Wis headband to get that bonus 3rd-level spell.
Also, I'd consider dropping Charisma to 10 and raising Con to 14. Unless you have specific plans for that Charisma, anyway.
Yeah, but girls often like having a positive charisma on their characters for the "pretty" factor. Especially if one is doing Shelyn and has perform, diplomacy and other charisma based skills...
Yeah, that exactly...
Toughness is probably the safest choice for the extra feat, for the reasons stated above. Judgment Surge was the other one I was considering recommending - end the fight faster, & all that.
So, what about the trait's? Fate's Favored (faith) is now on the radar, but that would still leave a second choice. Thoughts? Here are the traits again:
(combat) Tactician
(magic) Overwhelming Beauty
(faith)Birthmark, Schooled Inquisitor
(regional) Paragon of Speed, Temple Guard, True Believer
(social) Charming, Suspicious
I was thinking Paragon of Speed (+2 initiative) would probably be better than Tactician - not sure how often that damage bonus in surprise rounds will come in handy.
I always hesitate recommending a player rely on stat-boosting items to get the scores needed for spell levels - lose the item, & suddenly you can't cast your most powerful spells. Same thing applies to boosting DEX with an item to qualify for TWF or it's upgrades. Losing a stat boost to STR or CON will most certainly hurt, of course, but you character won't suddenly lose a significant/important part of his build.
As a result, I would normally recommend a couple of the level increases go into WIS (although not until later - perhaps 8/12 or even 12/16). I'd probably suggest the 1st one go into CON, to help with HP & FORT, or perhaps STR (along with the final level increase, if the group makes it to 20).
This isn't to say that stat-boosting items for those attributes aren't still desirable, just that a character shouldn't be over-reliant on them.
It seems that Fate's Favored is clearly a top choice for the 1st trait. Any other thoughts on the 2nd trait? So far, I've got a vote for Tactician, but that's it.
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My player was able to stop by this evening. After our conversation, we determined the following:
- Swap WIS & STR. As stated above, the pc will be a melee reach build, using AoO's to make martial attacks. As the 2ndary melee, this was an easy change to recommend.
-Choose Combat Reflexes & Toughness for feats. Combat Reflexes will be crucial to the reach build working, (especially in the 1st few levels), while Toughness will aid in the pc's survivability, as commented on above. Consideration is still being given to Additional Traits, though.
-Narrow traits to following; Paragon of Speed, Temple Guard, Fate's Favored, Tactician & Charming. Paragon of Speed gives a better initiative bump & Temple Guard is better for the AoO's, but Tactician balances the two nicely. Fate's Favored, as everyone above pointed out, gives a very nice bonus to attack & damage, making it quite interesting. Charming makes the list purely on RP/fluff merits, as the player feels it very much represents the character's life before becoming an inquisitor.
Of those, Tactician, Fate's Favored & Charming are the ones she was most interested in, but she wanted me to try to get additional input before she comes back to finalize it.
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Reformation Inquisition is better for this PC.
Allows you to use Wisdom for Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Perform(Oratory).
Also, makes Perform a class skill.
This means they can dump charima(or at least not invest too much).
You could use this to put that 12 into intelligence, and have more skill points.
Being able to invest more into Wisdom, rather than Charisma, will buff all Inquisitor abilities, along with Perception, and Sense Motive.
And Survival. They get Track at 2nd level, right?
Yeah, but girls often like having a positive charisma on their characters for the "pretty" factor. Especially if one is doing Shelyn and has perform, diplomacy and other charisma based skills...Yeah, that exactly...
I can go on about the mechanical/optimization benefits of dumping CHA all day - she's not going to do it. She's already stated she wants at least a little bit of CHA, and to be 'pretty,' or she doesn't want to play the character. Doesn't matter if it's not the most 'optimized' thing to do or not. And if she doesn't play, my son won't play. And if my son doesn't play, it's no longer family time - so then my wife won't play. So there goes half my group.
With all respect, the question/advice currently being sought is in regards to what traits would be recommended, not what attributes and domain/inquisition should be taken....
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10 is not a dump.
Charisma is not be all, end all, of looks.
Hags have high charisma.
Attribute and Domain/Inquisition suggestions are just that. Suggestions.
You can ignore them.
Stick with 12, if you want.
I still suggest the Reformation Inquisition. It is mechanically, and more important, thematically, fitting.
10 is not a dump.
Charisma is not be all, end all, of looks.
No disagreement here.
Attribute and Domain/Inquisition suggestions are just that. Suggestions.
You can ignore them.
Stick with 12, if you want.
I still suggest the Reformation Inquisition. It is mechanically, and more important, thematically, fitting.
A fair point. I honestly hadn't looked at the inquisitions that closely, as most of the optimization guides I've read don't seem to rate them very well - even though we aren't optimization fanatics, I still find the guides quite useful.
You've given some good advice in the past. So, I'll take a closer look at the inquisitions.
I'd still really like to get some more input on trait selection, though. As stated above, Fate's Favored seems very popular, but what about the 2nd trait?
Convince her Constitution is the "pretty" stat!!!
If she is a newbie, one thing I might suggest is that she select "exploration" and "interaction" spells instead of "battle" spells. She can use magic to divine, charm, sense, heal, etc., and just rely on Judgments for battle buffing. Less variables to take care of. I played with a rules-lite Inquisitor and she had lots of battle spells known, but never cast them during fights because she didn't really know what they all did. She most just hit things with her big giant flail.
Show her a picture of Amiri (the iconic barbarian) and ask her her opinion of that character's looks. IIRC, she has a charisma of 10.
So if she wants to play pretty, why are you going inquisitor? This sounds like a job for a bard. Probably an archaeologist bard. Bloodrager is also a really good option.
Convince her Constitution is the "pretty" stat!!!
I think that that's actually a perfectly reasonable argument. Constitution equates to physical fitness, and physical fitness and physical attractiveness are pretty strongly correlated.
Fate's Favored is really a must.
As a second choice, anything that pumps Initiative is good.
The choice to go with a Polearm, and Combat Reflexes, you may want to consider Tianjing Temple Guard, which gives you a flat +1 trait bonus on attacks of opportunity made with Polearm weapons.
I was personally debating between recommending either Temple Guard or Tactician, to go with Fate's Favored. The flat, constant bonus to AoO's is really tempting since it's a core part of her build, but the +1 to initiative/ +2 to a single AoO/day is pretty sweet as well - that bonus can be saved for when she really can't afford to miss. Charming normally wouldn't be that great, but it becomes a lot more attractive if she picks an inquisition instead of a domain (see below), and it TOTALLY fits the character's background. Paragon of Speed would never be a bad choice (too much initiative? Uh, how about NO!), but I think the other options fit her background better.
Upon re-examining the domains & inquisitions, I've decided there are 2 domains and 3 inquisitions I'll recommend.
The two domain choices are either sticking with Luck, or switching off to the Fate subdomain. It'll boil down to whether she prefers getting the re-rolls herself a couple levels earlier, or being able to use them to influence friend or foe. Personally, I feel the second choice gives more flexibility.
As far as inquisitions, I'm recommending Conversion, Heresy and Reformation. They all sub the WIS modifier on certain skills, thus justifying the increase in wisdom. Two of them also allow limited re-rolls on the relevant skill checks. As hinted at above, the 8th level powers would be helped by the Charming trait - an increase in the save DC will be very helpful, and the skill bonuses are just gravy.
I think Conversion's Dominate Person ability is the best of the three - definitely better than the Charm Person from Reformation. Heresy's Word of Anathema can definitely be useful, as well. A -4 to attacks, saves & ability/skill checks at the right time can certainly be a difference-maker.
However, Conversion loses points for not granting limited skill re-rolls at 4th level like the other two do. Also, it would have been great had Heresy given Stealth as a class skill, since it's giving re-rolls on it. Heresy has probably the best fit into the character's background. Reformation is probably my least favorite of the three overall.
Feel free to pepper me with more comments, lol. It's been a long day, & I need to get some sleep.
So if she wants to play pretty, why are you going inquisitor? This sounds like a job for a bard. Probably an archaeologist bard. Bloodrager is also a really good option.
That would be because my oldest son (her fiancée) is playing a halfling bard as the party face/supporter - it's one of the only classes/roles he hasn't played in a game yet, & he really wanted to try it.
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You don't need a high charisma to be pretty. You need a high charisma to be charming.
EDIT: Well, that, or be an Inquisitor.
Or have Clever Wordplay or Student of Philosophy (with the latter, it helps to be an Empiricist Investigator).
And Clerics can get the Conversion Inquisition, too. If they like.
Just to be pedantic. :)
The thing about the archaeologist bard is that it doesn't really step on the toes of other bards. If it overlaps with anyone, it's probably the rogue.
Got to talk to the player today - she doesn't want to try changing classes, as she loves the picture we found to represent her character & she really likes the character's backstory.
I presented the options regarding domains/inquisitions listed above. I tried to be as neutral as possible, explaining what I felt were advantages & possible disadvantages for both domains & the 3 inquisitions. Her 1st decision was to decide that she would go with Fate over Luck if she decided on a domain. Next was the decision to choose Heresy if she decided on an inquisition (although Conversion was, she said, a really close second).
Then it became a choice between Fate & Heresy. After talking over a little more how the game mechanics worked for each, she decided she wants to go with the Fate subdomain. Although she liked the flavor of the Heresy inquisition, she was concerned about enemies making their Will saves at higher levels. She liked the ability to affect both allies & enemies with the Tugging Strands ability @ 8th level, as well as the chance to give allies two rolls to choose from with Bit of Luck.
We also determined she wanted to keep her stats as they currently are (STR 16, DEX 14, CON 13, INT 10, WIS 14 & CHA 12). With taking a domain instead of an inquisition, she wanted to keep a little bit of charisma so she could at least be competent in regards to her 'face' skills (re-explained that charisma & looks aren't really tied together when going over the inquisitions).
As far as feats, she kept Combat Reflexes & Toughness. She decided to go with Fate's Favored for her first trait (Divine Favor will be one of her 1st-level spells).
The only thing she wasn't able to decide on before she had to go back to school (local university) was whether to take Temple Guard or Tactician for her 2nd trait - she's leaning towards Temple Guard for the flat +1 to her AoO's, although the +1 initiative was appealing (I was about to point out she can take Improved Initiative later when we ran out of time).
If anyone has any thoughts on choosing between Temple Guard & Tactician, it would be appreciated. Otherwise, thanks to everyone for all the advice & suggestions - the overwhelming support for Fate's Favored was definitely a help, as well as the advice to swap STR & WIS.
If you know RotRL, then you know I am not joking when I say this:
I hope your PCs don't get raped.
From the look on the face of your avatar Blackbloodtroll, I feel like this may be dredging up painful memories for you....
"Y'all got a purty mouth!" - pretty sure that line is going to get used at some point during Hook Mountain Massacre....
I'm planning on toning that section down a bit, as my 11-yr old son will be playing in the game.
And so, of course, my future daughter-in-law changed her mind. She's decided she'd rather go with the conversion inquisition, dropping charisma to 10 & bumping wisdom to 15 (we tend to not dump attributes, as we believe in role-playing to your attributes).
She also likes going with Divine Favor/Fate's Favored, but is uncertain if she wants to go with Temple Guard or Charming for her 2nd trait. I'm considering allowing the +1 save DC from the trait to apply to the Swaying Word ability - at one time per day, I don't see it as particularly unbalancing, and I think it fits the theme nicely....
So a little peak under the hood about RotRL, you end up fighting a lot of creatures with reach. The first 2 books are mostly creatures without reach, but book 3 on, you are fighting large or bigger creatures pretty much all the way through. What this means is that the AoOs are going to be come a lot less frequent unless she has a means of becoming large and/or increasing her reach regularly. That being said, there are a lot of situations where reach will come in handy and AoOs will be plentiful in the first two books (tight hallways/rooms & bunches of minions without reach). That makes Temple Guard strong right out of the gate, but it tapers off later in game. Since Inquisitors don't get Enlarge Person or Long Arm as spells and I don't know of any Inquisitor spells that increase size or reach, that means that the Trait will become a very infrequent bonus. That makes the Tactician initiative mod more valuable, while still boosting one AoO a day.
All this is presuming that the party moves tactically and allows for reach tactics to work. Nothing screws up that style of play more than other PCs. The reach thing can also be helped by the rest of her party or magic items/consumables to increase her doughnut of threateningTM.
TLDR = Either look pretty good. She doesn't have any glaring holes so choosing one is like choosing chocolate over vanilla.
There are a couple of feats that can help when dealing with reach/larger opponents - Big Game Gunter, Death or Glory & Lunge all come to mind. Plus, the party has a wizard & a bard, so there will be some magic options beyond what the inquisitor can cast herself.
Even without the AoO's on the larger creatures, she'll benefit simply by having the reach weapon giving her the same range as they have - she won't provoke herself when trying to close with them.
And personally, I like both chocolate & vanilla. :D
(I don't know how to make cool-looking emoti's in my messages)