Ghost in the Shell movie begins shooting next year


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Sovereign Court

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If they are to be believed

While I am glad that the awesome animation might get transferred to the big screen,

why.

god why.

just WHY.

Why Scarlett Johansson?

WHY?


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Amen. I like her but the Major is not American.


Why not Scarlett Johansson? She clearly has the action cred and the right acting skills, so what if she doesn't exactly fit the look, they change the major's look all the time anyway.


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Good god no. Scarjo is not the major in any way, shape or form.


Major has a completely artificial body. A Scar-Jo model wouldn't be out of the question.


You guys don't recall that at one point the major was a Caucasian blonde in the manga and I think in one of the movies before she swapped to yet another body. She can change bodies like clothing. The familiar form you guys are used to was her section 9 body, and even that went through various artist changes over the years.

Liberty's Edge

The Major's body was a suped up mass production civilian body chosen to be nondescript.

As for changing bodies like clothing, no, its come up a few times in the manga and once in SAC. Its an involved process with significant risk. Like surgery. Its not until after the the Puppet Master Incident that what the Major becomes can hop around.

Sovereign Court

After Lucy....just no.

Also, her acting leaves a lot to be desired.


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If it was absolutely necessary to do a live-action GitS, I wish they'd instead chosen Rinko Kikuchi as the Major.

And Ron Perlman would be good as Batou.

Sovereign Court

She'd be an awesome Major.


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I'm fine with it. I'm more concerned with how well written the script is. I like my GitS to try to bowl me over with philosophical ramblings.

Also, if they plan on doing more than one, they shouldn't open with the puppet master.

Sovereign Court

It's gonna be for a wide audience. I'm sure that they're gonna go easy with philosophy.

I'm thinking this is gonna be a fiasco in the range of DBZ Evolution and The last airbender, but that muggles are gonna enjoy for the action.


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I love Ghost in the Shell. I am not looking forward to this even a little. I like Johanssen, especially in the Avengers Movie, but there a lot of better choices for the Major. Rinko Kiuichi is definitely one. It's not like we're short on female asian stars who can hand pro-wrestler's there asses, though.

With only the apparent director announced it's hard to tell how this will turn out, but given Hollywood in general and white-washing another Asian roll...and the fact the only full length movie the Director has out so far is Snow White and the Huntsman...I really don't expect much.

Sovereign Court

I mean they already screwed up Akira.


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They can't have screwed up Akira. For no such movie exists.

nosuchmovienosuchmovieohgodwhynosuchmovie...


Hmmm. I have fond memories of that. OTOH, I saw it 20+ years ago and wasn't as familiar with anime or the manga at the time. Maybe I'd hate it if I saw it again.

Liberty's Edge

Akira is an ok movie, but it really suffers from being done when only... a fifth, my memory's fuzzy, of the manga was completed.


Krensky wrote:

The Major's body was a suped up mass production civilian body chosen to be nondescript.

As for changing bodies like clothing, no, its come up a few times in the manga and once in SAC. Its an involved process with significant risk. Like surgery. Its not until after the the Puppet Master Incident that what the Major becomes can hop around.

In the prequel Arise we learn that the Major has used her multiple bodies trick before there was a section 9. Back when she was with the 501. So it isn't only after the puppet master incident, it predates section 9 completely. It likely requires special equipment however which is probably why she doesn't use it while she is with section 9.

Liberty's Edge

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Considering that S.A.C., Arise, the Manga, and the Movies are all different continuities and Arise wasn't written by Shirow I'm not sure why you're bringing it up to justify the mind numbingly horrific casting choice.


Krensky wrote:
Considering that S.A.C., Arise, the Manga, and the Movies are all different continuities and Arise wasn't written by Shirow I'm not sure why you're bringing it up to justify the mind numbingly horrific casting choice.

And likely the live action will be yet another continuity.

If you had been following along you would know I was pointing out she can look any way she wants to. That makes Scarlett Johansson Perfectly fine a choice... there are others who could fill the role too as noted but the live action show starring her has already sparked new life into a show that without this live action movie was cancelled. NOW because of the American interest there is a sudden surge of new GitS anime being created in Japan. So even if the American movie ends up bad, it will have restarted the franchise and in my book that makes it a huge success. BUT don't count it out just yet, if it is popular it will also open many new fans up to the setting. Totally win win.

PS: with the exception of the manga, all the rest are presented as one continuity even if they have some noted differences. But difference will pop up in a show written across 3 decades.


While I won't complain about the idea of Ms Johansson in the kind of outfits Motoko wears, I can't say that I'm all that interested in a film. The only version of GitS I liked was Stand Alone Complex. The way that action, morality, and politics were blended was my just right porridge. I have a feeling that a film will be more exclusively action oriented.

Sovereign Court

Irontruth wrote:

I'm fine with it. I'm more concerned with how well written the script is. I like my GitS to try to bowl me over with philosophical ramblings.

Also, if they plan on doing more than one, they shouldn't open with the puppet master.

scythia wrote:
While I won't complain about the idea of Ms Johansson in the kind of outfits Motoko wears, I can't say that I'm all that interested in a film. The only version of GitS I liked was Stand Alone Complex. The way that action, morality, and politics were blended was my just right porridge. I have a feeling that a film will be more exclusively action oriented.

These things.

Liberty's Edge

Aranna wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Considering that S.A.C., Arise, the Manga, and the Movies are all different continuities and Arise wasn't written by Shirow I'm not sure why you're bringing it up to justify the mind numbingly horrific casting choice.

And likely the live action will be yet another continuity.

If you had been following along you would know I was pointing out she can look any way she wants to. That makes Scarlett Johansson Perfectly fine a choice... there are others who could fill the role too as noted but the live action show starring her has already sparked new life into a show that without this live action movie was cancelled. NOW because of the American interest there is a sudden surge of new GitS anime being created in Japan. So even if the American movie ends up bad, it will have restarted the franchise and in my book that makes it a huge success. BUT don't count it out just yet, if it is popular it will also open many new fans up to the setting. Totally win win.

PS: with the exception of the manga, all the rest are presented as one continuity even if they have some noted differences. But difference will pop up in a show written across 3 decades.

First, its not appearance that makes her a horrible casting choice. Granted, by your argument we could have cast Ben Affleck and it would be OK.

Second, no. Just no. The three volumes of the manga are one continuity, SAC is another, Mamoru Oshii two films are a third, and the Arise OVA/TV Show/Film are yet another.

As for American interest driving things in Japan... Bwuhahahaha.


Krensky wrote:


First, its not appearance that makes her a horrible casting choice. Granted, by your argument we could have cast Ben Affleck and it would be OK.

As for American interest driving things in Japan... Bwuhahahaha.

No she clearly prefers female forms. You could probably get more traction by saying Betty White instead of Ben Affleck... and while they could, it would make the show into a comedy instead of the mind game action thriller it should be. No they need an actress with action cred, like Scarlett Johansson or Rinko Kikuchi.

Not a fan of recent news are you? the Arise OVAs were an effort to relaunch the GitS universe. Six episodes were planned out... as you probably know they cancelled Arise after 4 episodes. The setting was dead, and no one would fund it. THEN the Americans later announce they were doing a live action GitS starring the famous Scarlett Johansson. Suddenly there was real interest in doing GitS again in Japan, with full funding for both a TV series and a movie.

Liberty's Edge

Considering that it was just announced that she was attached to the project recently and that the production work to adapt the four OVAs into eight television episodes with two new episodes started at the beginning of the year and was specifically in support of the animated movie coming out in Japan this summer... I highly doubt you're repeating that correctly.


People complaining about her acting are only focusing on her recent roles I wonder? Because she's been around a while now and while not one of those actresses who disappear into the role (there are very few of those around these days though) she's fairly competent.

Ghost World, Lost in Translation, Match Point, Don Jon are all pretty solid performances by her. The girl CAN act.

All that being said while I'm not a fan of the GITS movies I think that Stand Alone Complex and Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig are AMAZING shows. And if they strongly establish the concept of trans-humanism in the script for the movie and that the "Scarlett Johansson" body is just another shell that her ghost occupies? Then I could buy it. But if I remember correctly from the show (which I haven't watched in a while) wasn't her body as well as Batou and the rest a different grade than the standard civilian shell? More specialized and expensive? If that's the case then I wish that they'd chosen an actress closer to what Major Kusanagi looks like in the show, manga and movies. Japan, even Japan in the far future is still a fairly homogeneous place unlike America or parts of Europe.

Even with that being said if the movie turns out being good I dont care as long as it's a good movie. I mean I liked Man of Steel and Henry Cavil LOOKS alot like Kal-El but the Superman in that movie wasnt the Superman that I grew up reading in my teen years (Tail end of Pre-Crisis - Post Crisis John Byrne Superman). Still was able to enjoy that movie on a different level.


Krensky wrote:
Considering that it was just announced that she was attached to the project recently and that the production work to adapt the four OVAs into eight television episodes with two new episodes started at the beginning of the year and was specifically in support of the animated movie coming out in Japan this summer... I highly doubt you're repeating that correctly.

You do realize Scarlett's role and the making of the live action GitS was news in Oct 2014, don't you? It only continues to grab headlines over accusations of whitewashing the role.

Liberty's Edge

Yes and I complained about her being a bad choice then too. But it was that Dreamworks was considering asking her, not that she accepted.

You do realize that I.G. sold the rights for a live action film to Dreamworks on Kodansha's behalf back in 2008, right?

Liberty's Edge

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Shin,

The Major is the only member of Section 9 with a fully prosthetic body. Batuo and Borma have heavily augmented bodies with military grade parts. Ishikawa, Paz, and Saito are minimally augmented with police grade and civilian (although top of the line civilian) components. Togusa is, of course, unaugmented.

The Majors body is a mass produced civilian body chosen to be nondescript and forgettable and then heavily modified with military grade components and illegal civilian modifications.


Krensky wrote:

Shin,

The Major is the only member of Section 9 with a fully prosthetic body. Batuo and Borma have heavily augmented bodies with military grade parts. Ishikawa, Paz, and Saito are minimally augmented with police grade and civilian (although top of the line civilian) components. Togusa is, of course, unaugmented.

The Majors body is a mass produced civilian body chosen to be nondescript and forgettable and then heavily modified with military grade components and illegal civilian modifications.

That's right. the only detail that I remembered from watching the series was that of all of them Togusa still had his human body and was asked more than once by the Major and I think Batuo when he was going to take the leap and augment. I really liked Togusa and the fact that he's a pretty sharp detective, family man and fully human but can be capable enough to work with the rest of his teammates in Section 9.

God I really need to watch these series again...


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Ep 1 of SAC I believe, after a mission Togusa goes to the gun range to sharpen up a bit. The major comments that if he isn't sure enough to make immediate decisions about when to shoot, going prosthetic would fix that. She also mentions that they brought him on board for specific reasons and that he's already a valuable member of the team, prompting him to go do more detective work.

I've rewatched the series a few times.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah, so they'd have someone to torture at then end of the season betting onnn when he'd snap.


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ShinHakkaider wrote:
Krensky wrote:
The Major is the only member of Section 9 with a fully prosthetic body. Batuo and Borma have heavily augmented bodies with military grade parts. Ishikawa, Paz, and Saito are minimally augmented with police grade and civilian (although top of the line civilian) components. Togusa is, of course, unaugmented.
That's right. the only detail that I remembered from watching the series was that of all of them Togusa still had his human body and was asked more than once by the Major and I think Batuo when he was going to take the leap and augment. I really liked Togusa and the fact that he's a pretty sharp detective, family man and fully human but can be capable enough to work with the rest of his teammates in Section 9.

I love the conversation in the first Ghost in the Shell film when Togusa asks the Major why she picked him, an ordinary unaugmented cop, for the team:

The Major: "If we all reacted the same way, we'd be predictable, and there's always more than one way to view a situation. What's true for the group is also true for the individual. It's simple: Overspecialize, and you breed in weakness. It's slow death."

Liberty's Edge

Well, just for context, in the manga he's a cyborg like the rest. The major's comment still works because in the manga he was chosen because he was an honest cop and a family man, along with being from the police while the rest of Section 9 are all ex-military.

Of course that explanation is way too serious and meaningful for the manga Major. She'd just as likely make a joke about Aramaki having the hots for him or something.


My memory of GITS is that Togusa's augmentation is basic cyberbrain tech, more or less, for communications. Saito has the Hawkeye and one arm, which is normal for snipers. There's not really a mention of what Ishikawa and Pazu had. Borma was formerly a Ranger and had the 'ranger eyes', as noted near the end of 2nd GIG. Batou was mostly cybernetic, given he had an arm and a leg damaged. What they don't really discuss is who has civilian, police, military, or illegal mods. Batou has military grade and police issue, but not uber top of the line. The Major is as good as it gets, but she's not outfitted for raw power, but cyberwarfare, agility, and speed (not that she's a weakling, however). Togusa is more "human" than the rest, giving him a different perspective, which is why Motoko brought him on to begin with.

Mind you, I need to rewatch all this :)


Saw the movie last night. It was very "meh".

Visually, it's a remake of the original 1995 and uses some superfluous elements of the plot.

The plot is "original" as far as I can tell. It isn't a specific rehash or rip-off of anything else (though it certainly might be, I don't know), but it is exceptionally generic and basic. The dialogue is stilted and forced. It almost feels like they trip over themselves to get the words "ghost" and "shell" into various scenes.

My basic requirement of any GitS movie/show of having complex, invented philosophic ranting was not met. At the core of GitS is always a discussion of identity and self, whether it's the individual versus the masses, or the individual in a recontextualized physical/non-physical form. The movie alludes to such an issue, but doesn't actually discuss it at all. Basically, all it does is point out that people might feel different as machines become more prevalent in society... and then congratulates itself for having pointed this out, but doesn't actually address any of the issues involved.

Some of the action is good. Some of the visuals are good. A fair bit of each aren't that good though. Any CGI involving fast motion looked weird to me. The slow motion stuff looked okay, but was over used, while failing to give us a wonderful explanation for it's prevalence (for example, talking about the Major's enhanced perception/computational ability).

Pacing is really bad at times. The opening is kind of cool, but they fail to get to the cool action for a really long time. They keep suggesting that it's about to happen, but then keep giving more dialogue or set up, instead of just getting into it.

I briefly considered walking out at one point, because I was bored.

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

Irontruth speaks the truth. "Meh" is a good word to describe this movie. Though I have to give Scarlett a credit for a good performance, she was good at playing android/cyborg/whatever sheis. Really nailed the inhuman body language and reactions to stuff. But she was like most of the characters, really kinda flat.

Spoiler:
Michael Pitt was obviously a wrong choice to play Kuze, but he actually too gave a interesting and inhuman performance. That does nto save the character or justify the casting (and the justification they give in-universe for whitewashing is laughable) but I was kinda surpised for what range Michael Pitt seems to have. Kudos.


I liked it

I do agree with some folks that there was a bit of "spoon-feeding" of information that hurt the movie's pacing.

I actually did sort of like the meta commentary inherent in the movie regarding "white-washing"...because if something like this happened, I kind of suspect you would see something very similar

I was mostly weirded out by the fact that the main boss only spoke Japanese over the course of the movie, when no one else did. Don't get me wrong, that character himself was badass, but still...

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

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MMCJawa wrote:

I actually did sort of like the meta commentary inherent in the movie regarding "white-washing"...because if something like this happened, I kind of suspect you would see something very similar

Spoiler:
But they did not really do anything with it. After the twist is resolved, it is entirely dropped. If they had done something with it, make the point of the white-washing more central and lay the blame of removal of asian identity to Cutter and the American corporation to make a meta-commentary about the business itself. Or even better, have her reclaim that identity by changing herself to her identity, giving a asian actress the rest of the movie and potential sequels to star in.

But they did nothing. After Major knows her past and gets her revenge plot completed, she seems content with herself again. This could be fairly interesting if the movie had explored the themes of transhumanism and body-swapping more.

Of course, then there's the fact that they are now "better and more evolved" which just feels reaally uncomfortable.


Rosgakori wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:

I actually did sort of like the meta commentary inherent in the movie regarding "white-washing"...because if something like this happened, I kind of suspect you would see something very similar

** spoiler omitted **

It's like the writers/director think they should get full credit for merely mentioning that transhumanism might exist.

A good transhumanism story doesn't need to provide answers necessarily, it can be a bunch of questions that are unresolved. This movie doesn't ask questions though. It just kind of grunts non-committal statements, and then goes "ooh shiny!" in an attempt to distract you. Even that is something that could be profound, but the irony of shiny holograms to sell you products being used to distract you from the lack of intelligence in the movie is lost on the movie itself.


Rosgakori wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:

I actually did sort of like the meta commentary inherent in the movie regarding "white-washing"...because if something like this happened, I kind of suspect you would see something very similar

** spoiler omitted **

That twist came pretty late in the movie though. I am not really sure there was much time left to really explore that. Yes an argument could very well be made that with a bit better pacing control they could have probably done something more with it.

Liberty's Edge

I was not happy with the movie. The changes to the characters' background really left the plot feeling disorganized and incoherent to me. Instead of a Ghost in the Shell movie, we got a corporations are evil generic plot. The visuals were stunning in Imax thou.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Irontruth wrote:

Saw the movie last night. It was very "meh".

Visually, it's a remake of the original 1995 and uses some superfluous elements of the plot.

The plot is "original" as far as I can tell. It isn't a specific rehash or rip-off of anything else (though it certainly might be, I don't know), but it is exceptionally generic and basic. The dialogue is stilted and forced. It almost feels like they trip over themselves to get the words "ghost" and "shell" into various scenes.

Robocop.

Person gets turned against their will into a robot cop. They struggle to regain memories of their former life/their humanity. In the end, they fight the corrupt corporation that built them, which now wants to destroy them.


Ben,

Remake Robocop wasn't as good as the original.

Sovereign Court

It was good in a different way.


Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

Saw the movie last night. It was very "meh".

Visually, it's a remake of the original 1995 and uses some superfluous elements of the plot.

The plot is "original" as far as I can tell. It isn't a specific rehash or rip-off of anything else (though it certainly might be, I don't know), but it is exceptionally generic and basic. The dialogue is stilted and forced. It almost feels like they trip over themselves to get the words "ghost" and "shell" into various scenes.

Robocop.

Person gets turned against their will into a robot cop. They struggle to regain memories of their former life/their humanity. In the end, they fight the corrupt corporation that built them, which now wants to destroy them.

You're right. It hadn't occurred to me, but it exactly the plot of Robocop. The original Robocop had some self-awareness of itself, which is one of the reasons it is a classic. The remake Robocop and this version of GitS have no self-awareness, and they are trying too hard.

Sovereign Court

Hama wrote:
It was good in a different way.

It was?

Sovereign Court

Yes, I enjoyed it. It criticized marketing and treating people as products.

Sovereign Court

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Hmm, thought it was unremarkable. In its defense the bar was so high set by witty genius Verhooven Rebootocop didn't stand a chance.

Going to see Ghost tonight will review soon.

Sovereign Court

I didn't compare them. That's why I liked it.

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