If you're an atheist, how can you have gods and religions in your setting?......


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Quote:
When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.

My religion is absurd. When you start in absurdity everything else becomes much more reasonable. It also makes dealing with the "reality based" people much easier too, if a trifle tiring.


thejeff wrote:
xavier c wrote:
thejeff wrote:

Actually not being able to understand the idea of a fictitious deity may be psychosis, but finding even fictitious gods threatening and dangerous is much more common. There's a segment of Christianity that thinks that any toying with such, even in the guise of fiction, is dangerous. It's closely linked to the same groups that think D&D is Satanic or that want to ban Harry Potter.

Usually it's tied to anything magical or occult that isn't strictly Christian in nature. Or the wrong type of Christian.

Those who won't play D&D at all are more common, but I've run across some who will play, but pretending to worship a fictional deity or (more accurately) playing a character who does so is too far.

What do you mean by "wrong type of Christian"

From the point of view of the type of Christian who believes this sort of thing - anyone who claims to be Christian, but doesn't agree enough with them.

Then i think they need some Ghetto Gospel.


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Yuugasa wrote:

Seems a silly question, along the lines of "If you're a nudist, how can you have clothes in your setting?"

I'm afraid I'll run into one of those "immersive roleplaying" players.


I don't know what I am because I'm not someone who cares about the sorts of questions religion answers.

I'm probably one of the few people here who has a problem with gods, but it's about power and not about [insert definition of what makes a "god" here]: I just don't like that power level. Still doesn't stop me from playing in settings with powerful gods, they just become a flag in the whole decision process.


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There's a world-building book by Mark Rosenfelder called The Planet Construction Kit. I would recommend reading it. Just generally.

There's a specific section on constructing the belief systems of the various races and nations, and it includes a blurb with advice for Christians making other religions and atheists making religions at all.

It boils down to "Just because you're not a murderer doesn't mean you can't write a crime novel. The actions you depict fictional characters taking are exactly that, the actions of fictional characters. Creating an assortment of religions is the same thing."

Seriously, this book is awesome (he's also a conlanger and has a couple of books on that topic).


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Zombieneighbours wrote:
If you're an a-unicornist, how can you have unicorns and pixies in your setting?

I have karkadann's in my campaign. They're like a unicorn... but more of a cross between a rhinoceros and a tiger. They're a mythical beast from Persia.

Image for reference


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Atheist here. While I understand the desire that leads to religion I'm a rationalist so actually being religious is right out and it irks me no end when people try to use religion as an excuse for anything.

Gods and religions are perfectly ok in games because ... do I really need to explain why it's ok to have fantasies in fantasy games?


Well, I'm a Dr. Pepper too! (Atheist)

I have no problem with a lot of fake gods in in all the fantasy books I have read over the years.

What I can't believe is no one has quoted the CRB for Clerics. (or maybe I missed it. A Cleric does not have to have a specific god, he can worship an alignment or he can worship nature. He is not bound to just gods.

Though it gets mighty interesting if you get your powers from somewhere and you don't believe in gods. (unless you are a cleric of that Razmir guy)


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This is exactly why sun rods in my pathfinder setting are an inch long, provide less light, and last for 10 or 20 seconds.

Also, I don't believe that tanglefoot bags exist in the really real world...therefore I ban tanglefoot bags in my pathfinder campaign.

Oh, and the Urgrosh.

And spells - magic spells don't work in the really real world, so they don't work in my pathfinder setting either.

On the other hand, shark cartilage cures disease almost instantly with a single dose. Really! it works!


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Hama wrote:
He is actually pestering me over text messages. I answered but he seems not to get it.

I would ask him how this is any different than video games, movies, books, and so on, and them not bothering people.

What about Christian authors who write fiction about worlds where real life religion and therefore Jehovah do not exist?

I would just tell him "I can mentally separate the two. That is all that matters", if he still does not "get it".


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Fantasy worlds tend not to have true religions in them anyway.

Golarion is typical. Religions are big governments, there is no actual faith involved. The deities are bosses that employees (priests) kiss ass to and in return get paid for it (in divine magic). True faith, true religion to me is one where the god is not real.

This might sound weird, but true belief is belief without any proof ever. God does not exist to be your boss, but to be the ideal for humans to follow. God is the mysterious perfection that laid down the foundation for us to be better humans. His holy rules are ought to be followed not because he might smite us otherwise, but because our sins were forgiven and we were given the idea how to continue forward from there, towards improvement. God works in mysterious ways because you are not meant to emulate him directly, but let the guidelines of the holy bible influence your culture and lead whole community towards better life.

Well, bible is outdated by now because we have found new paths towards self-improvement, but that not the point.

Fantasy settings never do it like this. Deities are super pro-active, demons literally exist just one planar hop away and you can be ideal human by just willing so. This is why atheists and believing both have easy time not bothering with this question at all. Because nothing is a mystery and gods are far too imperfect, there is no room for belief. You cannot "belief" if it is too easy.


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Envall wrote:


This might sound weird, but true belief is belief without any proof ever. God does not exist to be your boss, but to be the ideal for humans to follow.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a more naively Christian-centric statement on this board before.

Poseidon would disagree. He's just your boss. Sacrifice to him if you want your ship to see port tonight.


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Hama wrote:
So a no true Scotsman then?

To some extent. More accurately, it's a "no true Scotsman except for me" fallacy; if you claim to be a Christian but have a significant theological difference from me, you're obviously not a variant of Christianity, but an unwashed heathen.

Quote:


Two men were on a flight from Dallas to Houston and where chitchatting a bit. The topic of religion was raised and one said, "What religion do you observe?"

The other man replied, "I'm a Christian."

"Really? Me, too! What denomination?"

"I'm a Baptist"

"Me, too! Are you Baptist Church of God or are you Baptist Church of the Lord?"

"Why I'm Baptist Church of God." Now he was getting excited.

So happy, the first man continued. "Me, too! Are you Original Baptist Church of God or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God? The anticipation was at a fever pitch now.

"Hey! I'm Reformed Baptist Church of God!"

"Awesome! Are your Reformed Baptist Church of God reformation of 1879 or are Reformed Baptist Church of God reformation 1915?" He could hardly wait.

"I'm Reformed Baptist Church of God reformation 1915!"

"Brother, that's is fantastic!. Do you use the King James version Bible or the NIV Bible at your services and studies?"

"Why we use the NIV version Bible!"

...to which the first man replied, "HERETIC!"

or, if you like,

Quote:

A Catholic, a Baptist, and a member of the CofC all got marooned on a tiny uninhabited island in the South Pacific.

After ten years, a ship sees a fire and comes by to investigate. They find the three men have all built extensively and settled in on the island. Before leaving to civilization, the captain asks for a tour of the island from each man.

The Catholic shows him his palm tree house as well as a magnificent palm tree structure shaped like a Gothic cathedral. He proudly says "this is my church, St. Mary's of the Restless Waves."

Next the Baptist shows him his own palm tree house and a steepled structure. The captain says, this must be your church. The man says, "yes, this is First Baptist Church of the Desert Island."

Finally, the CofC man shows him around his part of the island. He has a house and a nice, but unassuming structure. The captain asks "is this your church?" The man says "yes, this is Northside Church of Christ."

Peeking up across the palm forest, the captain sees another building. He asks the man, "what's that over there."

"That's Southside Church of Christ, where I used to go before they got too liberal."


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Orfamay Quest wrote:
Haladir wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Haladir wrote:

There is no Christ figure either.

I'm fairly sure that this is untrue, since "Christ figure" is a label applied by the reader, not the writer.

I meant "Christ parallel" in my game world.

However, I believe you are mistaken about the term "Christ figure" in literature. Deliberate use of Christ figures by the author is a long-established literary technique.

Much less common and less well-established than you think. Don't confuse a Campbellian hero with a "Christ figure"; in fact, that's a common mistake that leads to the "Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory" trope I cited earlier.

Thanks for the info!

I'll tell my old thesis adviser that she was wrong.

Oh, sorry, that's an "appeal to authority" fallacy.


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Hama wrote:

I was asked this question on my last game, by one of my new players (who was obviously outraged that I don't believe in the same deity as he does)

It left me wondering though. Do you, atheist GMs, have a problem with gods and religion in the games you run? Or do you simply accept them as fact and go from there?

I, for one, find that in most settings, deities are actual, existing beings who interact with their believers and actually grant some of the more devout the ability to perform minor miracles in their name. So, I have absolutely no problem with the concept of gods in fantasy settings.

I don't believe in goblins either.

Liberty's Edge

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Orfamay Quest wrote:
Envall wrote:


This might sound weird, but true belief is belief without any proof ever. God does not exist to be your boss, but to be the ideal for humans to follow.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a more naively Christian-centric statement on this board before.

Poseidon would disagree. He's just your boss. Sacrifice to him if you want your ship to see port tonight.

And just to be sure sacrifice to his wife, friends, lovers, and kids too, because, damn are the gods petty and easily offended.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
Envall wrote:


This might sound weird, but true belief is belief without any proof ever. God does not exist to be your boss, but to be the ideal for humans to follow.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a more naively Christian-centric statement on this board before.

Poseidon would disagree. He's just your boss. Sacrifice to him if you want your ship to see port tonight.

Sorry to all ancient greeks then. And the volcanos of ancient southern/middle america. And all other heathens.

Jokes aside, of course I am Christian-centric, I am not going to start talking for other religions, such would be hugely arrogant. Well, it is massively personal anyway but anyway blargh.

I wonder what the everyday religion was like in olden Greece and Rome. Not talking about mythos, but how "seriously" it was taken. How much lip-service was paid.


Ring_of_Gyges wrote:

One distinction that might be helpful to him is between someone who doesn't believe in God and someone who disapproves of religion. The two aren't the same.

I, for example, don't mind religion. Many religious organizations do a great deal of good. I don't believe God is real, I believe religious people are *mistaken*, not wicked.

Not believing in something isn't the same as believing it is bad. I like Doctor Who, I know it isn't real. I don't like fascism, it's real though.

Someone who doesn't believe in God can still run a world where gods are real, good (or as in PF, of various alignments), and have religions that are forces for good (and evil) in the world.

Another thing to remember is that Golarion doesn't have a God in the Christian sense. Serenrae may be very nice, but she didn't create the universe, doesn't have authority over all things, isn't eternal, isn't all knowing, and so on. None of the gods of Golarion fit the Christian theological criteria to count as capital 'G' God. The gods of Golarion are closer to the gods of the Greek pantheon. They're born, they have limited powers, they can die, etc...

"Atheists" in Golarion aren't people who don't think Serenrae is real (she obviously is), they're people who don't think she's a proper object of worship. The gods are simply extremely powerful beings, but no different in principle from any others. An Intelligence 30 lawful good gold dragon may be very good, very smart, and very powerful, but he isn't God in the way that Christians think of it (and neither is Serenrae).

A lot of the things we assume about theology are based on being brought up in a culture full of monotheistic religions. Why worship capital 'G' God? Well, He's perfect, He knows with absolute certainty what is best for everyone and loves everyone. Why *worship* Serenrae. Yes, she's good, but so are a lot of people. Yes she's wise, but she's not omniscient. Jehovah, in Christian theology, can't be wrong. Serenrae might be in Golarion. Maybe CG is a better alignment, maybe LG is. If you're wrestling with a moral crisis in Golarion "Serenrae says do X" isn't the end of the problem, maybe Erastil says "Don't do X". The gods of Golarion are really different kinds of things than the gods of real world monotheistic faiths.

For what it's worth, and it's isn't discussed much, there does appear to be an apparent creator god(s) of the multiverse. The dragon gods Apsu and Tiamat, though not much more is provided than that. It is said they created the other gods and the multiverse from nothingness. Of course, it could also be pure legend. We don't have enough lore in any of the books to really confirm. And even if they were the creators, and amazingly powerful and intelligent they are not all knowing all seeing beings. As creators of the multiverse they may be the most powerful beings, but not necessarily "all-powerful" whatever that means in context to being the most powerful being. I guess my point is, there may be gods who fit the definition of God, but so little is known about them and on Golarion almost no one is aware of their existence or even in contact with them. Including the Gods of Golarions (which does not include Apsu or Tiamat as they are overgods).

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Envall wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Envall wrote:


This might sound weird, but true belief is belief without any proof ever. God does not exist to be your boss, but to be the ideal for humans to follow.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a more naively Christian-centric statement on this board before.

Poseidon would disagree. He's just your boss. Sacrifice to him if you want your ship to see port tonight.

Sorry to all ancient greeks then. And the volcanos of ancient southern/middle america. And all other heathens.

Jokes aside, of course I am Christian-centric, I am not going to start talking for other religions, such would be hugely arrogant. Well, it is massively personal anyway but anyway blargh.

I wonder what the everyday religion was like in olden Greece and Rome. Not talking about mythos, but how "seriously" it was taken. How much lip-service was paid.

To some degree it was the same as today. The business of living day to day was still paramount. That said, the Greeks saw their Gods as beings more akin to themselves as opposed to being removed dispassionate beings. The harsher realities of every day living probably meant that the average "Joe" probably took his religion more seriously than today's average American.

Although I shouldn't generalise. Being raised in New Jersey, I still find shocking, the revelation from my spouse that churches in Colorado included fully stocked mini-malls.


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Orfamay Quest wrote:
Envall wrote:
This might sound weird, but true belief is belief without any proof ever. God does not exist to be your boss, but to be the ideal for humans to follow.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a more naively Christian-centric statement on this board before.

To be fair, the very definition of faith (which is what I understand Envall means when he says "belief") is believing without evidence... The moment God shows up and proves his existence, he stops being religion and becomes science.

Anyway... I think the OP's question is pretty silly. Most of us don't believe in gnomes, dragons and vampires either... But we have no problem having them in our game world.

Atheism is not hatred of religion, it's merely not believing in the existence of any god(s).


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Lemmy wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Envall wrote:
This might sound weird, but true belief is belief without any proof ever. God does not exist to be your boss, but to be the ideal for humans to follow.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a more naively Christian-centric statement on this board before.
To be fair, the very definition of faith (which is what I understand Envall means when he says "belief") is believing without evidence... The moment God shows up and proves his existence, he stops being religion and becomes science.

That, of course, is a modern (largely 20th century) formulation; Isaac Newton would have laughed at that idea, as would Thomas Aquinas. As a matter of fact, the only reason that people suggest it in the first place is because it's the Siegfried Line to which fundamentalists had to retreat after getting shelled out of their traditional epistemological traditions.

Even the pseudoconflict between science and religion is a modern construct; obviously, it couldn't exist until "science" did, and for the vast majority of Christian history, God's existence was easily provable -- and eventually "natural philosophy" (i.e. science) was the most effective way to do it.

Similarly, "faith" traditionally means not "belief without rationality," which would have appalled the medieval Scholastics, but "steadfastness" and "trustworthiness," as in "to promise faithfully," "to keep faith with," or even "well done, good and faithful servant" (Matt. 25:23). To suggest that a servant can only be "faithful" if he has no idea whether or not the master even exists is..... ludicrous.

And, again, this particular formulation of the idea of "faith" is so Christian-centric I'm almost embarrassed to point it out. Ask a samurai what faithful service is.....

A faithful soldier does not desert his post when the sergeant's back is turned. A faithful servant follows his master's wishes when the master is absent; an unfaithful servant is not a rationalist, but a rebel.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Envall wrote:
This might sound weird, but true belief is belief without any proof ever. God does not exist to be your boss, but to be the ideal for humans to follow.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a more naively Christian-centric statement on this board before.
To be fair, the very definition of faith (which is what I understand Envall means when he says "belief") is believing without evidence... The moment God shows up and proves his existence, he stops being religion and becomes science.

That, of course, is a modern (largely 20th century) formulation; Isaac Newton would have laughed at that idea, as would Thomas Aquinas. As a matter of fact, the only reason that people suggest it in the first place is because it's the Siegfried Line to which fundamentalists had to retreat after getting shelled out of their traditional epistemological traditions.

Even the pseudoconflict between science and religion is a modern construct; obviously, it couldn't exist until "science" did, and for the vast majority of Christian history, God's existence was easily provable -- and eventually "natural philosophy" (i.e. science) was the most effective way to do it.

One can put a good deal of blame on Galileo for his heavy handed contribution to the religion/science split. But I would be cautious about extending any heroisim for his circumstances, considering how he got himself into trouble in the first place.


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Jaelithe wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Envall wrote:


This might sound weird, but true belief is belief without any proof ever. God does not exist to be your boss, but to be the ideal for humans to follow.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a more naively Christian-centric statement on this board before.
It's also not accurate, according to most Christians. Fides quaerens intellectum.

St. Anselm, yes? Although I think he got it from Augustine. In either case.... yes, the idea that understanding destroys faith is.... ludicrous.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
thejeff wrote:


It's fun to blame Tolkien for everything, but it's not really true.

I blame Tolkien for Cosmo.

Shadow Lodge

LazarX wrote:
I blame Tolkien for Cosmo.

I blame Cosmo for Tolkien.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
LazarX wrote:
I blame Tolkien for Cosmo.
I blame Cosmo for Tolkien.

Wrong thread!


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I think the important part for this player would be to make sure that every time he rolls a natural 1 you must loudly proclaim "WHERE'S YOUR GOD NOW?!?!"

I have an odd sense of humor.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

"You're a pure soul... but you didn't say "God bless you" when I sneezed."

Nun: You don't believe in God because of Alice in Wonderland?
Loki: No, "Through the Looking Glass". That poem, "The Walrus and the Carpenter" that's an indictment of organized religion. The walrus, with his girth and his good nature, he obviously represents either Buddha, or... or with his tusk, the Hindu elephant god, Lord Ganesha. That takes care of your Eastern religions. Now the carpenter, which is an obvious reference to Jesus Christ, who was raised a carpenter's son, he represents the Western religions. Now in the poem, what do they do... what do they do? They... They dupe all these oysters into following them and then proceed to shuck and devour the helpless creatures en masse. I don't know what that says to you, but to me it says that following these faiths based on mythological figures ensure the destruction of one's inner-being. Organized religion destroys who we are by inhibiting our actions... by inhibiting our decisions, out of... out of fear of some... some intangible parent figure who... who shakes a finger at us from thousands of years ago and says... and says, "Do it - Do it and I'll f!!!in' spank you."


Vincent Takeda wrote:

I think the important part for this player would be to make sure that every time he rolls a natural 1 you must loudly proclaim "WHERE'S YOUR GOD NOW?!?!"

I have an odd sense of humor.

Sure, be aware though that if he is smart he will just loudly proclaim "WHERE'S YOUR NO GOD NOW?!?!?!?!" back at you when he rolls a natural 20.=p


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Orfamay Quest wrote:
*cool stuff*

That's an enlightening lesson in history/linguistics... (Seriously. No sarcasm.) And to this fay we still use "Faith" as in "confidence" or "optimism" (e.g.: "I have faith my so will become a good person" doesn't necessarily mean belief without evidence). And as you mentioned "faithful" is still used to mean "loyal", rather than "religious".

Still, nowadays the word "faith" is very often used to mean "belief in a god/adherence to religion", because words gain, lose and change meaning all the time. And using this meaning, if a god showed up and actually proved his existence, it would no longer be a matter of faith or religion. It'd be a verifiable aspect of reality, and therefore, studied by science.


I don't beleive in dragons (or kobolds, or vampires, etc...) either, yet there they are in my game.

In a Star Wars setting, you'd have JEDI (and Sith), no? Yet, we all know that the Force is just something made up by Gearge Lucas.

We can still have fun with those things.

And ieven if you are a devoted worshipper of GOD, you're not committing sin by playing an evil cleric of Orcus in a roleplaying game. The game has nothing to do with your beleifs.

:)

Ultradan


Lemmy wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
*cool stuff*

That's an enlightening lesson in history/linguistics... (Seriously. No sarcasm.) And to this fay we still use "Faith" as in "confidence" or "optimism" (e.g.: "I have faith my so will become a good person" doesn't necessarily mean belief without evidence). And as you mentioned "faithful" is still used to mean "loyal", rather than "religious".

Still, nowadays the word "faith" is very often used to mean "belief in a god/adherence to religion", because words gain, lose and change meaning all the time. And using this meaning, if a god showed up and actually proved his existence, it would no longer be a matter of faith or religion. It'd be a verifiable aspect of reality, and therefore, studied by science.

Yet it is still possible to believe in a god without having faith in them :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Thymus Vulgaris wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
*cool stuff*

That's an enlightening lesson in history/linguistics... (Seriously. No sarcasm.) And to this fay we still use "Faith" as in "confidence" or "optimism" (e.g.: "I have faith my so will become a good person" doesn't necessarily mean belief without evidence). And as you mentioned "faithful" is still used to mean "loyal", rather than "religious".

Still, nowadays the word "faith" is very often used to mean "belief in a god/adherence to religion", because words gain, lose and change meaning all the time. And using this meaning, if a god showed up and actually proved his existence, it would no longer be a matter of faith or religion. It'd be a verifiable aspect of reality, and therefore, studied by science.

Yet it is still possible to believe in a god without having faith in them :)

Death's Heretic's Selim says hello.


Thymus Vulgaris wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
*cool stuff*

That's an enlightening lesson in history/linguistics... (Seriously. No sarcasm.) And to this fay we still use "Faith" as in "confidence" or "optimism" (e.g.: "I have faith my so will become a good person" doesn't necessarily mean belief without evidence). And as you mentioned "faithful" is still used to mean "loyal", rather than "religious".

Still, nowadays the word "faith" is very often used to mean "belief in a god/adherence to religion", because words gain, lose and change meaning all the time. And using this meaning, if a god showed up and actually proved his existence, it would no longer be a matter of faith or religion. It'd be a verifiable aspect of reality, and therefore, studied by science.

Yet it is still possible to believe in a god without having faith in them :)

Care to elaborate?

EDIT:Ah! I see... If you se the word "faith" as "trust" or "confidence", it makes sense. It's indeed possible to believe in a god and not trust him.


Lemmy wrote:


Still, nowadays the word "faith" is very often used to mean "belief in a god/adherence to religion", because words gain, lose and change meaning all the time. And using this meaning, if a god showed up and actually proved his existence, it would no longer be a matter of faith or religion. It'd be a verifiable aspect of reality, and therefore, studied by science.

Not in any meaningful or interesting sense, I'm afraid. Remember that, for the vast majority of human history, God was a verifiable aspect of reality, and if you didn't act accordingly, your ship wouldn't make port. Science isn't about explaining away God; it's about explaining how the world works -- and if God is a part of the world, then certainly God's actions are a part of how the world works.

A "faithful" follower of a religion is someone who doesn't break faith. The classic counter-example is, of course, St. Peter, who famously denied being associated with Jesus (John 18:15-27). That's not a matter of science, it's a matter of being too cowardly and chickens--t to "keep faith" with the person whom he had sworn to follow as God.


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Lemmy wrote:
Thymus Vulgaris wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
*cool stuff*

That's an enlightening lesson in history/linguistics... (Seriously. No sarcasm.) And to this fay we still use "Faith" as in "confidence" or "optimism" (e.g.: "I have faith my so will become a good person" doesn't necessarily mean belief without evidence). And as you mentioned "faithful" is still used to mean "loyal", rather than "religious".

Still, nowadays the word "faith" is very often used to mean "belief in a god/adherence to religion", because words gain, lose and change meaning all the time. And using this meaning, if a god showed up and actually proved his existence, it would no longer be a matter of faith or religion. It'd be a verifiable aspect of reality, and therefore, studied by science.

Yet it is still possible to believe in a god without having faith in them :)

Care to elaborate?

EDIT:Ah! I see... If you se the word "faith" as "trust" or "confidence", it makes sense. It's indeed possible to believe in a god and not trust him.

And somewhere lost in there is the concept of worshiping God.

It's possible to believe in God, but not worship Him. A concept somewhat obscured by the constant use of faith and belief as near synonyms.


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... because sheer awesome of the flying spaghetti monster defies even deific stats?

Community & Digital Content Director

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Removed a few comments and just popping in for a reminder here: topics involving religion and gaming and the greater discussion of campaign settings have the tendency to turn into a platform for very negative and often hurtful comments. Even if your personal beliefs are contrary, being civil and cognizant of others in the conversation is important.


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thejeff wrote:
It's possible to believe in God, but not worship Him. A concept somewhat obscured by the constant use of faith and belief as near synonyms.

Indeed. Two great examples:

James 2:19 and Riddick on God

The second's a lot more fun.


Short answer: Because fiction.

Longer answer: Gods in Pathfinder aren't omnipotent or omniscient, side-stepping many of the obvious logical conundrums around free will, etc. inherent in what most modern-day westerners think of as religion (monotheistic; God is infallible and all-powerful). I don't know any atheists who would argue against at least the possibility of advanced, non-terrestrial life existing (or having existed at some point); life which might qualify as divine in a Pathfinder sense.


I don't allow the IRS to exist in any of my games. Therefore I don't have to pay taxes in real life.


Yuugasa wrote:
Vincent Takeda wrote:

I think the important part for this player would be to make sure that every time he rolls a natural 1 you must loudly proclaim "WHERE'S YOUR GOD NOW?!?!"

I have an odd sense of humor.

Sure, be aware though that if he is smart he will just loudly proclaim "WHERE'S YOUR NO GOD NOW?!?!?!?!" back at you when he rolls a natural 20.=p

You guys must be a riot to play with.


thejeff wrote:
It's possible to believe in God, but not worship Him. A concept somewhat obscured by the constant use of faith and belief as near synonyms.

Is it really? At least in God in a modern, western sense? Doesn't believing mean accepting the claims of infallibility and omniscience, in which case how could one not worship?

Probably getting off topic, but I'm not sure I can picture how that might work.

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