Interest check: Marvel superheroes gestalt

[Rick Rowles]

I was looking for builds for Marvel heroes online that I could use in games when I came across a thread on this forum where someone began recruitment for a game under gestalt rules and a Marvel-ization of Golarion. He closed the thread and said he'd come back once he straighened out some stuff but he never did so I hope he won't mind if I try to steal his idea out from under him.

I probably won't use the exact same build rules and setting changes he had in mind but there is a lot of cool stuff in the ideas he wrote down so I might try to adapt them to my own stuff. But first I want to see if there is interest in running this sort of stuff. Gestalt will definitely happen and I'll allow Psionics and Path of War so that people can more accurately build stuff they want, while other 3PP stuff we'll see as it comes up. Feel free to show your interest if you have any and vent ideas for how you would build characters you're into and we'll see if there's enough to make a real thread out of it.

This is a new profile because I have never been to these forums before today but for those who have worries about experience, I am a long-time PBP player and DM, and I'm on almost four years of Pathfinder love. I know my way around forums and the rules just fine.

Edit: Whoops I shoulda posted the original thread to give you an idea of what inspired me. Here it is! I'll change a bunch but it does show what I want to stay at least a little true to.

[Cassandra Cain "Batgirl"]

Definitely interested. I was one of the players in that until the DM had to deal with real life, and I was really sad that it ended before it really began.

I'm posting with the character I used (it wasn't just Marvel; it was really any comic book hero). I'd definitely love to play in this if it gets started (there was also tons of interest before, so I'm sure you won't be short for submissions). I'm willing to either re-stat Cassandra or, if you're really set on just Marvel, make a new character.

Also, if you didn't see it (but you probably did) here's what ended up being the actual recruitment thread.

[Rick Rowles]

The one I linked was a reboot using only Marvel that he posted a few months later, so sort of the same thing but not quite.

I'm pretty set on Marvel honestly. Not a big DC fan atm.

[Baru_Brimmstone]

*Bamf*

a purple haze clears to reveal a dark blue skinned demon-like figure (tiefling) complete with a prehensile tail.

I present Nightcrawler inspired:

Male Tiefling Arcanist (School Savant: Teleportation)/Rogue

I've been dying to get this character into a game. This would be perfect!

[Anon A Mouse]

Rick Rowles wrote:

The one I linked was a reboot using only Marvel that he posted a few months later, so sort of the same thing but not quite.

I'm pretty set on Marvel honestly. Not a big DC fan atm.

Oops, my mistake. I somehow got the dates messed up in my head. Sorry.

Also, still interested with just Marvel. Although this was a horrible thread to see before bed because now my mind is whirling with thoughts/ideas.

[Flora Black, "Black Orchid"]

Oh, man. Also interested (I was another character in the original game with Batgirl, but never saw the followup).

Black Orchid is certainly my favorite character in DC, but if you're interested in just Marvel, hmm—I'm potentially interest in Squirrel Girl, I suppose (Captain Andoran sounds fun too, but there's going to be too many proposals for that one). How are you thinking of handling mutants, lore-wise?

[Anon A Mouse]

I also didn't see the follow up originally. :/

I'm thinking probably someone from Runaways. But I'd need to brush up on the characters since it's been a while. And because reading comics for homework is always a good idea. ;-)

[grimdog73]

Dotting

[gyrfalcon]

Spooky's original recruitment had plenty of interest. I'm sure this one would too!

Here's the build I made at the time for Narya, the Snowbird

Notes on how I built her:

I tried to map her powers to those listed here as much as is reasonable to do:

Arctic Animal Shape-shifting: Druid (only 1/day & medium so far, but it’ll grow)
Flight: Half-Celestial template: 60’ fly (good)
Self Healing: channel (3d6, 3/day), CLW from Inquisitor
Superhuman Strength: Half-Celestial +4 Human +2 Belt +2 Level +1 = 26 STR (doesn’t quite get me to lifting a ton, but not bad for 5th level)
Postcognition: At Will SLA, bought with race points
Compel Others: Inquisitor (Conversion Inquisition, stern gaze, Command spell)
Mystical Sense & Resistance: Inquisitor (monster lore, detect alignment, track), sacred slayer archetype (studied target), Menhir Savant (detect undead, fey, outsiders, astral, ethereal, incorporeal)

Concessions to the format conversion: Snowbird doesn’t cast spells in the comics, but a Druid is a full caster (and an Inquisitor a partial one). Given that she’s the child of a god with a mystical connection to the arctic I’m fine with that, and I’ve made her Druid spells cold spells (and will use her summons for arctic animals).

Inquisitor w/ sanctified slayer archetype turned out to help flesh out some of her abilities (mostly mystical sense & compel others). There aren’t really any winter/arctic themed spells, but I was still able to find some thematic ones. (As a side note, the reason I asked about Physical Exemplar was to trade out the (less thematic) Inquisitor spells for some abilities to buff her heroic strength and stamina...but I think the build works equally well in either case.

General thoughts on build rules:
- the ability to use a template or two in place of one or more levels on one side of the gestalt helps a lot (e.g. the celestial template really helps Narya)
- I think custom races and/or giving players custom race points to play with makes a lot of sense. I like it in particular as a way to get at will SLAs.
- for some builds, the ability to use a monster template might make sense too.

...and now I want to go back to figuring out how to build the new Kamala Khan/Ms. Marvel...but I'll wait til you get a better sense of your build rules first.

Looking forward to it!

[thunderbeard]

Okay, this is Black Orchid, and I'll stop using that avatar.

A few things I'd caution about, as someone who's seen a lot of recruitments that blew up with nothing but 3pp shenanigans:

-Path of War can get pretty crazy, and alongside Psionics leads to a lot of 3pp classes being proposed—not that I'm saying don't do it, but I've personally always found everything in PoW rather superfluous, and it might add a bunch of rules questions that you should be prepared for (the book is chock full of mysterious untyped bonuses and actions of unspecified usage times).

-A lot of people will want some way to be more-than-human in their racial origins. Think carefully about what you want to allow (if it's templates, I'd suggest a limited list, because otherwise you wind up with a large power differential between characters—and make sure a template takes up levels on both sides of the gestalt, or things will get outrageous), but one way to keep this in check is to diversify the flavor of things—want to be a celestial whatever? Maybe you can be an extra-special Aasimar, with unique appearance.

-If you're setting it in Golarion, remember to let people know to tone down their lore to the setting; this worked really well with Spooky's game, and I'm sure there's plenty of examples of that. Golarion is chock full of aliens, but someone born in space might also be here from the First World, or the Outer Planes. In the game I was in, for instance, Storm was a Weather Oracle/Sorcerer who got her lightning from magical (though internal sources), and other characters similarly fit well inside the rules. The Hulk may have been damaged by an alchemical explosion instead of gamma rays; Spiderman may have been bitten by a giant demonic spider—let players know what backstory they're responsible for fitting into what setting, and use it to gauge people's writing skills.

-I strongly suggest that you not allow free-for-all/unspecified race builder use. There is so much that is not balanced in there, and players will find ways to abuse it, accidentally or intentionally, and it will clutter recruitment up with constant player questions. Race building can be a powerful way to get things like flight or a specific SLA, but if you allow it, I'd allow it with limits—only allow specific abilities (for instance, flight or other movement types, natural weapons, SLAs, and the ability to be a monstrous humanoid/plant/construct—and maybe nothing else), and set a race point limit.

-The party will be big damn heroes. Superheroes don't get beaten to within an inch of their life every issue, and trying to precisely set challenges may be difficult. Set a big point buy, a decent starting level, and consider alternate villain threats, where the heroes have to save as many civilians as possible while also fighting off enemies or deal with a spy who has infiltrated their headquarters.

[Gavmania]

Good advice from thunderbeard.

One of the frustrations I found was pitching the build at the right level - how much is too strong? how much too weak? Seeing a She-Hulk with a strength that was (I thought) too low while we had another (I think it was a Mockingbird build) that had a strength higher than my Captain Britain build (despite his enhanced strength). It would be helpful if we had some kind of benchmark for Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, etc. so that we don't get anomalies like that, i.e. Hulk Strength=30, Spiderman Strength=26, Daredevil Wisdom=24, Spiderman Dexterity=26, Reed Richards Intelligence=28 (I'm just plucking figures off the top of my head, don't take these as final figures).

Not sure if I will join this one, I am not feeling inspired at the moment, but I wish you luck; someone should make this work.

[gyrfalcon]

Thunderbeard is wise to raise balance issues...but in some ways I think the problem is more bigger/complicated than he suggests, and I'd suggest a different way of solving it.

Even with completely RAW pathfinder, no 3pp, there are balance issues. Add in gestalt, they grow enormously. It's true that adding in 3pp, templates, race builder, monsters halfs in gestalt all add to the potential for imbalance in power between party members. I'd suggest that no matter what set of build rules you publish, there will be room in them for very a very wide range of power levels.

So what to do? Here are a few options. There are certainly more, and your choice might include a combination of them:
(A) Decide to be heavily involved in character builds. Warn that you'll come up with the final build together with them...and perhaps even that you reserve the right to change things after the game starts.
(B) Decide on the power range you want, and warn that you'll reject applicants that are above or below that desired range
(C) Decide how true you want builds to be to the source material, and perhaps add limitations of your own (e.g. if someone needs Druid for Wild Shape but doesn't need spells and are overpowered with them, perhaps consider trading the spells for something else or just taking them away.)
(D) Decide to be OK with a wide range of power levels, and ask the applicants to be OK with that as well. (Is it OK to have a Iron May and a Black Widow in the same party, even though one is vastly more powerful than the other? Maybe. There's always a risk that Black Widow thinks Iron Man is overpowered and hogging the show, or that Iron Man thinks Black Widow isn't pulling her own weight...but if you let folks know you expect to have a wide range of power levels and want players who're OK with it, that may not be a problem)

One place where I disagree with thunderbeard: s/he suggests there's a way for you to avoid a recruitment thread filled with "constant player questions". If you don't want that, you probably want to avoid opening a Marvel-conversion game at all. A game like this *will* be a can of worms, at least at the beginning. If you decide to run it, decide that you'll have to deal with those issues head on during recruitment...and give yourself the option to change your mind as you start to see real builds come it.

Good luck!

EDIT: Perhaps it goes without saying but I'll say it anyway. Each way of approaching balance (from deciding to allow a wide range of power levels to having a heavy hand in character building to specifying a detailed set of build rules) will turn some players on and others off. That's OK. You just need to decide what you're going for and make that clear so that potential players can select in or out based on your vision.

[motteditor]

Dotting for potential interest.

Being an Avengers fan, I'm probably most interested in Hank Pym (alchemist or investigator, maybe?) or Janet Van Dyne (*no* idea how I'd build her yet)...

Hawkeye's always a favorite as well, though he seems like he'd be almost too core Pathfinder-y (i.e. he's using basic archery rules). Maybe Quicksilver, who I think would be fun to play mechanically...?

[Rick Rowles]

Flora: If you think you can pull off Squirrel Girl then sure, go for it. For mutant lore, I think it will be a lot like the original idea maker's: they exist as a weird "other" for powers that isn't typed in their fluff as divine or arcane magic thus making them feared by people nonetheless, just on a bit of a smaller and easier to hide scale. Once I have my own adaptations to the setting written down I will explain it in a little more detail.

thunderbeard:
-If I ever feel something becomes "too strong", rule zero kicks in and I bring things a little closer to the ground. The main reasoning for Path of War is to open up different options for characters who want to be punchier; I just got done binging Netflix Daredevil, which was one of the main reasons for me getting into the idea.

-Templates will definitely be considered but it will be with a narrow pool and a level limit much lower than the starting level, which will also be low at the start. And one of the things I really liked in making the idea work was being willing to reflavour everything to help the mechanics fit the character so that will definitely be around.

-That is definitely something I am going to do. I see it as being sort of like a more magic version of Marvel 1602 in some ways. Everybody is going to have to adapt their characters to the setting and will be judged on how well they can fantasy up the origin story.

-I am actually really unsold on the race building system the old DM used. I agree there has to be some way to get the needed abilities onto the heroes but I think I'll do something different there. At the very least, introduce some sort of trade-off for taking those. Maybe a higher starting gold and have people buy certain abilities made permanent. Or allow it in a very limited and scrutinized way but then introduce some kind of incentive to not use it that will reward players so they don't see points and figure they might as well cheese since it's there.

-I haven't considered encounter design yet since this is in the early stages, so thanks for the suggestions! I will definitely be trying to balance how comic books usually handle fights with how Pathfinder does. Goon stomps will still be a thing, but even if it isn't quite how it's portrayed, I think any villain with a "name" should pose at least some kind of challenge to a party.

Gavmania: I don't know if benchmarks will really help too much, especially when the major NPC heroes I have in mind are all much higher in level. This will be starting at mid-level (probably 5 like the original game so that I don't have to spend an entire day making a character to fight), and if I feel someone has gone way too far, I'll tell them they have and should consider rebuilding.

Also, you don't need to necessary build a character to reflect at a low level what their maximum potential is. Big heroes at low levels can gradually come into their powers and play like normal and well-balanced characters. Someone like Hulk, for instance, should actually have a really varied stat spread. High Strength obviously, but also a lot of Constitution, dexterity to represent his speed and jumping ability, Int because Banner is a genius, and some Wisdom to bump his will save, since Hulk is resistant to mind control. Mind you, Hulk is probably off the table.

But I think it's important to note that having a well-made character who looks like they fit is more important than building solely for "accuracy". I want characters fun to run games with and who build for practicality around their concepts, if that makes sense.

gyrfalcon:
(A) There is a lot of work involved in trying to help everyone figure out their builds, but obviously something this theory-heavy means a lot of participation in the thread to help throw out ideas. I hope that the close involvement will help with perspective and getting an eye for how balance is proceeding.
(B) I am definitely putting in a higher limit. "No cosmic" was a good rule. But I don't want to get too restrictive (I'll explain on D).
(C) It's hard to figure out what could be equivalent to something as major as spells, but it could be worth figuring out. As I explained up with Gavmania, practicality and building a functional and well-rounded character instead of "this character his super strength so I have dumped everythig else".
(D) This is the one I'm most likely going with. The main benefit to gameplay is that the parity is not as immediately terrible as it is in the comics (wizards might be more versatile than martials, but it's hardly as bad), and I can tailor encounters in ways that greatly benefit characters who might not have the most immediate use. In your example, something where Black Widow's skills are much more valuable to a mission than Iron Man artillerying the whole place up. But the core reason for going with this is that it leaves everyone with the choice; do you love a lower-tier character enough to accept maybe not being a walking gestalt god for the chance to roleplay them and punch stuff? To me, the love of a character or the "I think this would be really fun to play" is more important than "This is will be really strong and wreck s#**". This is the way of doing it I feel opens the most possibilities up and lets people really go with what they want.

Constant player questions are not a problem for me. I welcome them actually. Otherwise everything becomes cookie cutter and people stick to the straightforward-looking ideas and never get into the fun stuff.

motteditor: There are some archetypes for other classes that could make for some fun archery stuff. Archer Fighter lets you do combat maneuvers with your arrows, and Grenadier Alchemist lets you put things on ammunition to basically create trick arrows. But that depends more on how much mileage you feel like you can get out of "core archery plus stuff".

[gyrfalcon]

Rick, I like the way you're thinking! (and totally agree that--especially in a build system as nutty as this will likely be--the goal has to be a flavorful and interesting to play character.)

I just read (and loved!) vol 2 of the new Ms Marvel was thinking about how to build Kamala Khan. I think access to something like (enlarge person, reduce person, longstrider, jump, bouncy body) and then the ability to heal herself gets her a long ways there. One way to get that is to go Investigator/Monk (or Brawler, or Sacred Fist Warpriest) and just limit myself to those extracts. Another would be a way to buy those as SLAs...or to build a custom magic item for GP and then have it be part of her body. Another interesting way to give powers is with the evolution points used to build eidolons.

Perhaps players have a menu that includes a way to trade GP or class levels for race points and/or evolution points? Whatever you pick, I suspect it'll be a lot of fun to work on a build or two.

EDIT: I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts about how you'd build her. Maybe I'll try a couple variations if I find the time!

[Calinthas Aldimay]

Ooo, this sounds interesting; would you be banning Jean Grey as the initial thread had; if not, she was always one of my favorite charactesr, and my initial thoughts would be that she would work as an Emberkin Aasimar Psion/Wizard or maybe a Psion/Sorcerer, or perhaps even a Psion/Oracle of Life, taking Energy Body to mimic the whole Phoenix thing... so many possibilities with that one.

A close second would be Cyclops, but I'm at a bit of a loss as to what classes to mix... probably some kind of blaster class and Paladin since he was always a bit by the books... any thoughts?

[gyrfalcon]

If the occult playtest classes are allowed then Kineticist seems good for Cyclops.

[thunderbeard]

@Gyrfalcon—if you want to be the ultimate master of body-manipulation, consider combining something with mutagens and/or alchemy (so an alchemist, inquisitor, or mutagenic mauler) with something psionic (like psychic warrior) that gives you access to a second set of bodywarping abilities.

Squirrel girl would be either a monk/brawler crossed with either Natural Weapon ranger or Psychic Warrior. Focus would be on extreme agility, and possibly puns. Biofeedback or Claws of the Vampire could duplicate her regenerative factor. Not sure whether to model her control of squirrels as a beastmaster ranger with a dozen animal companions, or a single familiar.

Would like some way to speak with animals (even if just squirrels) at will, but gnomes can only do this once/day, and it might be more practical to take the spell through ranger/use wild empathy.

Any thought on starting levels, and whether the game will be set in Golarion or a Marvel 1602 world?

[Black Dow]

Also posted in the original thread - Gyrfalcon helped me stat up a version of Sasquatch.

Whilst Langkowski is still very much on deck for my options I'm also mulling over some other old character faves of mine:

Thunderstrike (Eric Masterson) - Yeah I know he was Thor-lite, but was always drawn to the notion of a man who had once wielded the power of a god - how much that shaped his psyche (and messed him up accordingly) - would likely build him as a much more street level hero wielding a powerful weapon...

Wallop (Walter Destine) - Genie-blooded bruiser... and a fellow Brit to boot :) Again like how he can lose control - literally a fiery temper. Good blend of mystical and muscle.

[Baru_Brimmstone]

Here are some suggestions for anyone wanting to develop:

Hulk = Barbarian/Alchemist (Alchemist focus on mutagen, enlarge extract)

Captain America = Brawler (Shield Champion)/ (maybe magus skirnir)

Gambit = Rogue/Magus (staff magus)

Iceman = Sorcerer (Elemental, Boreal, Rime-Blooded or Marid)/Wizard (evocation school)

Thor = Paladin/Sorcerer (Elemental or Djinni)

Doctor Octopus = Summoner (Synthesist w/ extra limbs or tentacles)/Alchemist

Human Torch = Ifrit Sorcerer

Storm = Witch/Sorceress

Wolverine = weapon proficiency: Catfolk claws, Brawler/(Oracle or Hedge Witch)

these are just off top of my head to get the ideas flowing for anyone interested

[Rick Rowles]

gyrfalcon: I think the big issue is that starting at a mid-to-high single digit level, there won't necessarily be enough gold to really throw around too much, and I don't want to start tossing class level imbalances around because while I know the system well, I don't trust myself to know it well enough for that to come out functional. I think one of the less elegant but more stury solutions would be your idea of just limiting yourself to on-topic extracts. Because custom magic items would quickly eclipse any reasonable range I could probably give on a higher starting gold. Anything that goes outside the normal system should be stuff that players can't really find easily through classes, like dependable at-will flight and certain natural attacks. Which is one of the reasons I'm checking interest; it lets me feel out how I'll pull this off instead of opening half-cocked recruitment.

Calinthas: I'm on the fence about a few of the characters they banned. A lot of them make sense but I'm not personally keyed into their plans for it. For now I'd say don't, but if I open her up later then feel free.

Occult Adventures playtest is on the table so Kineticist might be worth looking into. Then, depending on if you want to focus more on his unarmed or his leadership abilities. Brawler could work with the former, or an unarmed Paladin for both.

thunderbeard: It will use a modified Golarion. I want the high fantasy feel that 1602 lacks as a historical setting, am too lazy to make my own universe, and it's easier to adapt characters to a setting out there and easy to find information on.

Baru: Neat ideas, but off the top of my head I'd say Gambit would probably dip into Arcane Trickster.

[Black Dow]

Some very cool ideas being pitched here :)

Am now seriously considering building Warpath as a Shoanti Slayer/Bloodrager
(Mutant Bloodine?)

@Rick - Wondering if we should be pitching character concepts that are in that middle ground of power as a basis? Will make more powerful beings more of a collective challenge whilst also being able to have a tilt at the more street level encounters/scenarios??

On the subject of characters - with Warpath I've pitched the notion that our Golarian-616 would have "Mutants" as a Bloodline - based off the Destined Bloodline would make sense from a Homo Superior pov, but thinking of the weird, wonderful and downright misbegotten that Mutantkind has thrown up in the comics - pretty much any of them would fit in some way.

Did have a fun notion of creating Bloodlines based on Mutant/Kree/Asgardian/Olympian/Gamma/Inhuman etc - just to add a bunch of Marvel favour to the game...

As for world building - think most of us would be interested to chip in?

Wonder if Gambit would better fit as a Magus - Card Caster? Reckon he'd also have a Varisian culture too - which would potentially tie in with the Harrow Deck throwing?

[Rick Rowles]

I think the balancing of power for the most part would come from relative levels. Any notable superhero team is a pretty eclectic mix of power levels, but we have the good fortune here of letting everyone sort of brought down to rough equivalency through character level. For instance, Daredevil would probably have a Monk half and Thor might have a Cleric half. While Cleric is a stronger all-around class than Monk is, they're still of equal character level and especially at lower level aren't too far apart that they may as well not be in the same party. In the comics their presence on a team is only justified by plot, but in gameplay terms the field is a little more even. Continuing to think on this while on the bus and stuff all of yesterday, I think aside from blocking certain characters for plot reasons I'm not going to put any limitations, entirely because gameplay offers something a lot more balancing than comics' plot-driven, arbitrary numbers.

For the matter of bloodline, I feel that would likely come down to a matter of refluffing on an individual basis. Especially in the cases of Mutants and Inhumans where powers can vary so wildly. A common flavour origin between their "lineages", but not anything concrete in terms of gameplay.

I didn't know Card Caster was even a thing, but on review, yes, that would fit. In fact, it's even compatible with Staff Magus. You'd be unable to pump Arcane Pool points into the staff, but you'd still end up versatile in your combat options and with some built-in melee capability to cover your ranged ass. Pair that with Rogue/Arcane Trickster so you can delcare impromptu ranged Sneak Attacks, and the build would actually turn out pretty interesting.

[Black Dow]

@Rick - cheers for the clarification, yeah the bloodline rebuff/refluff makes sense.

Card Caster/Staff Magus for Gambit sounds very interesting indeed - nae my cup o' joe but could be great fun to run.

If characters aren't off-limits then I'd LOVE to do Mr Fixit Hulk lol - Rage Chemist mixed with Rogue (Thug) - what's not to love.

Works for the Sczarni of course ;)

If he's off the cards then I'll likely run with Warpath :)

[Rick Rowles]

Hulk is probably going to remain locked. There's a lot of clear logic in making him an NPC and I think I might want to continue along that in some way of my own.

[Black Dow]

No worries - will keep mulling.

Out of curiosity would Ben Grimm be also of the locked order?

Am thinking Oread Monk (Order of Stone)/Fighter (Brawler)...

[Rick Rowles]

Fantastic Four I'm a little more on the fence about and could probably go either way on them, depending on interest in playing as one of them.

[Taenia]

I am interested as well. Working on Antman or Yellowjacket. Rather than find a way to be human and shrink down I will Start with a Young Atomie (CR like -1 or something) and include a modifier that adds Greater Change Shape into a single medium humanoid.

Class level wise I would take Monk or Brawler/Arcanist Unlettered Arcanist to grab Vomit Swarm as his ability to summon and control ants.

Not sure how effective he would be but he would be an awesome scout cause cover would be everywhere, oh that pebble yah, thats cover or with the new rules from Giant Hunter handbook, soft cover would work.

[Ashe]

Heck yeah still interested, I have Thor, Blade and the Hulk all built.

I will rework them based on your build guide lines, but I am most interested in playing Thor.

I have Thor built as a Mighty Godling / Warpriest (Sacred Fist) with half Celestial template. The wings were reflavored so he doesn't have wings but still has natural flight.

[gyrfalcon]

Been reading the newly released Harbinger class from Path of War, and the associated Cursed Razor discipline which has a bunch of ill luck mechanics...and immediately started thinking of ideas for the Black Cat. I'm torn now between her and Ms Marvel.

Rick, sounds like you've got the interest. What're your thoughts? Any sense of if/when you'll post a recruitment? Or more ideas about how to build?

[The Dragon]

I'm definitely interested.

Not quite sure as what, just yet. Might see if I can't create Iron Man - maybe a psion//aegis could work wonders.

Alternatively, wolverine is the reason the psychic warrior is like it is, so not using it to stat him up would be a damn shame.

Not quite sure how to handle the regeneration and metal skeleton bits, though.

[Rick Rowles]

Okay, been off doing some thinnking between bits of exam prep, and come to a few decisions to help in character choosing so people can kick things around.
-The power cieling will definitely cover 'cosmic' level characters right off the bat. Silver Surfer and the like are immediately banned, no questions asked. No hard reality warpers like Franklin Richards, but lesser-tier warpers like Scarlet Witch are fine.
-Any Marvel characters are game as long as they have spent at least some time as a hero. How much is sort of case-by-case for the more ambiguous and allegiance-changing, depending on if I have plans for them or see them as too villainous for it to work.
-The modified banlist from the original post is as follows: Doctor Strange, Reed Richards, Ghost Rider, Hulk, Jean Grey, Nick Fury, Professor X, Red Hulk, and The Punisher.
-Which means I'm allowing FF but not Reed because he has plot stuff to do.

My current plan for doling out powers is going to be a higher cap of starting gold and/or the ability to buy magic "items" at a potentially discounted rate. Certain abilities from the race builder can be bought at a cost I still need to give a test run for, but which I think might be the best way to do it. This lets heroes centered around tech or powers that are supported by normal Pathfinder to still get some edge.

Taenia: I don't know if someone built around size changing would be too great. It's not a power with great use by game mechanics, and it'd be really difficult to execute for something with not great returns.

Ashe: Not a fan of Godlings, sorry.

gyrfalcon: I've still been working stuff out and juggling all the madness of exams creeping up on me. I'm thinking maybe I'll open up shop after exams are done, both so there's a lot more people hitting summer and potentially free, and because that way I ride off any potentially higher interest in the game brought on by Avengers next week. So tentatively, May 2nd I should hopefully have things more organized, and can be around here in the meantime helping to spit out ideas.

[Philo Pharynx]

Let's see, for Wolverine, Catfolk can get scent and claws.
I'd use a hunter (feral hunter) or Soulknife (feral hunter). Warpriests can heal themselves as a swift action.

For Nightcrawler, I'd go swashbuckler/Psion (nomad)

Armor would be an Aegis, of course. Not sure what to pair that with.

-----
I once did a version of Wolverine using the old half-troll template (It was originally 3.0, but updated into 3.5 on the conversion document)

+4 improvement to Natural
Armor
Str +6
Dex +2
Con +6
Int –2
Cha –2
Lvl +4
CR +2

Fast Healing 5.
Darkvision 60’.
Gain the Scent ability.
Gain two 1d6 Claws & one 1d4 Bite attacks (if Medium).
If both Claws hit, does a Rend attack that is 2x the damage dice of
a Claw attack + 1½ Strength modifier.

[Rick Rowles]

Wow, that template actually works out for Wolverine pretty well. Might be something in Pathfinder that I can't think of that'd also do the trick, but I like it.

[Philo Pharynx]

Of course at 4 levels, it's not good for a level 5 campaign.

[Rick Rowles]

Oh wow, I missed that last bit. That honestly does not look like four levels worth by any stretch; a Wolverine would likely involve just sinking all their starting cash into buying those through one thing or another.

On the note of 'buying' abilities, I've been working on trying to feel out my algorithm, and I think I have come to the conclusion that it will go on a ratio of 1 RP per 1,000 GP spent. The reasoning for this is that the 2 to a specific ability score abilities cost 4 RP. +2 Headbands and Belts cost 4,000. Those abilities will of course be off the table for selection, and I am going to be very judicious in making sure the buying of race builder abilities is used without cheese.

Getting custom magic items for at-will spells is still being ironed out cost-wise, but likewise it will be heavily moderated. For example, a Stormborn Sorcerer Storm can buy something to get at-will Fly (although nerfed for movespeed purposes), but can't get at-will Lightning Bolt through the same means. Very case-by-case to try and keep these systems from being too exploitable.

[Taenia]

So I was thinking of one of my favorite lesser known X-men, Rockslide and came up with this.

Make him a gestalt Summoner/Sorcerer-Ghost(+2)
Ghost power is Magic Jar, but only on his Eidolon.

He summons his Eidolon, magic jars it (it autofails save) and is now Rockslide's rocky (use Wild Caller archetype) body. Picks up Natural Armor, strength, couple Slams, DR. Probably trade out some abilities on the line of synthesist to better simulate the "fused" being.

He runs around as his Eidolon all the time. Doesn't sleep or need to eat so he can maintain it all the time. Summoner spells would be devoted to effects like restore eidolon, summon eidolon or eidolon surge. Ant haul for "super strength", Compel Hostility for his "taunting comments", Magic Fang, Stoneskin for basic functional buffs.

Sorcerer is for his "explosion" which following he auto falls prone and must spend the next round 'reassembling' the body. Spells would start with Burning Hands then stuff like Fireball and other big explosion spells.

[Rick Rowles]

It would probably be easier to just go with Synthesist Summoner, which is so much simpler.

[thunderbeard]

3.5 also had the Feral template, which covers some of the Wolverine stuff without the huge and horrifying stat bonuses.

[Phoenix Hunter]

Highly Interested!

Modern Tech, I assume?

Also, Unless we can create our own hero, I'm DEFINITELY interested in Cap! [Unarmed Fighter/Throwing Monk] (haven't read the other entries just yet)

[Phoenix Hunter]

Philo: Note that Wolverine actually has Regeneration, not just fast healing (FH turns off when below 0 HP, or at death threshold).

[gyrfalcon]

Phoenix, you gotta look at the Brawler's Shield Champion archetype too--it seems to have been made for Cap.

And yes--unless Rick changes it when he posts the actual recruitment thread--the idea is to faithfully adapt an actual Marvel hero instead of creating our own.

As far as tech goes, I don't think so...I think this is a supers-of-Golarion kind of thing...but DM might say otherwise.

[Phoenix Hunter]

Like this!?

[gyrfalcon]

Nice! Also just realized that a Path of War Warder using the Iron Tortoise discipline would be a great part of a Cap build too.

[Phoenix Hunter]

I'll look into those, But he's definitely got to be able to throw the shield!

[Rynjin]

...I kinda want to make Iron Man.

Something like Aegis/Soulknife (Soulbolt archetype, then into the Mystic Archer PrC)?

Or maybe Colossus (of the X-Men). Warder/Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager) or Aegis, perhaps? Pump most of my Feats into MOAR DR.

Or, just for giggles, Deadpool. No earthly clue how I'd be able to mimic his Regeneration though. Paladin is the closest I could get and that just...does not fit.

[Grovo]

Hawkeye.. you normal and typical boring human Ranger with some knickknack modifications maybe :P

[thunderbeard]

Pretty sure Captain America has to be full Shield Champion on one side, though (It makes your shield bounce, and disarm people). But don't you mean Captain Andoran?

And Hawkeye's too boring to be a ranger. Rangers get pets, and spells, and favored terrain. Hawkeye's more of an Archer-archetype fighter.

Deadpool was banned in the last superheroes game recruitment for being too meta (and too hard to do justice to). I had a decent build for him, though—you just need to drop in some fast healing with the race builder. And he's absolutely a Ninja. (Possibly also Savage Technologist Barbarian or one of the Swashbuckler archetypes, to pick up sword-and-pistol fighting.

[The Dragon]

Captain Andoran is totally a warder. No reason to go shield champiom - iron tortoise does the bouncing better anyway.

Shields are close weapons anyway, so he can be focused on Broken Blade, Iron Tortoise, and of course Golden Lion.

What would regeneration 1/- cost? I'm going to need it to make wolverine. Fast healing 1 is 6 rp, so maybe ten? That's 10000gp, which is steep as hell, but then again, it makes him functionally immortal. He can die to actual death effects, but whatever.

He'll get some Dermal Plating installed eventully.

[Phoenix Hunter]

IDK, Throwing monk, with a returning shield is pretty easy to justify "shield bouncing" on the flurry bits. I'd have to do some more thinking about it to do it justice, but he's definitely an acrobat/martial artist.