I would play a Hunter if I wanted to be a Ranger with a lot more spellcasting and/or if I wanted to cast spontaneously with the Druid list.
I know someone that likes Hunters because she can actually speak with her animal (at 11th) without using a spell, so, she feels the in character bond more strongly.
In general, the builds look like Ranger builds. You use Animal Focus and better spells to make up for the BAB loss and lack of favored enemy. You also end up with a feat advantage, because both you and your pet get the bonus teamwork feats.
Honestly, it's better than Ranger in my mind, no question. BAB is nothing compared to spells. The real class that jeopardizes its existence is the Sacred Huntmaster Inquisitor. It's just comes down to a question of, "Do you like the early entry Ranger spells better than Inquisitor spells?" It's a tough call, really.
The sharing of teamwork feats with your pet is something really powerful: look at the brief guide here to have an idea of what you can pull off! I've seen even crazier things around, but I can't find them now. :/
Also, Hunters can teach their pets tricks from the Skirmisher Ranger archetype: some of those are really nice!
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Well, conceptually (and their mechanics back this), Hunters are by far the most pet-focused Class in the game with the exception of Summoners, and are generally more inclined to personally back up their pet in combat.
They're for if your concept isn't 'a guy who happens to have a pet' but instead, a pair of integrally linked characters, one humanoid and one one animal.
Mechanically, they also make excellent use of Teamwork Feats and their ability to use the Ranger spell list on a 6-level caster to be rather frightening melee combatants (or pretty solid archers), while their animal companion's skirmisher tricks (and Evolutions if you go Primal Companion, which you should) make it notably more effective than others of its kind possessed by other classes.
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The Hunter/Sacred Huntmaster Inquisitor is the most powerful Animal Companion class in the game. It's power isn't obvious, but sharing teamwork feats with the AC can build a feedback loop of synergy.
Consider a mounted character with Pack Flanking + Outflank + Paired Opportunists + Escape Route. Both the hunter and the AC has a constant +4 to hit anything they threaten. At any time the hunter or the AC scores a critical hit, the other gets an attack of opportunity, which then triggers an attack of opportunity from the one that scored the critical hit. Any movement at all does not trigger any AoOs.
It seems to me to probably be one of the best mounted lancer character options available. With evolved companion (reach) you can take advantage of outflank + precise strikes on the charge with a lance.
The ranger spell list actually has some pretty golden options when lead blades and gravity bow are considered. Plus you get early access to a number of pretty decent druid spells (animal growth, communal protects)
They're a prime choice for the animal soul feat, letting melee hunters super-enlarge with animal growth.
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I will be playing in a campaign soon, but the GM says he may ban animal companions. I want to play a Hunter, although it seems that I will have to play a Feral Hunter archetype.
When I read the class description, I was attracted to the Animal Focus (or Feral Focus) class feature. I suppose a single class feature is not a good reason to pick the class.
I would avoid playing Hunters at all if animal companions are banned. Synergizing with it is basically the entire point of the class, after all.
The Hunter is pretty powerful as a fighter, but at first glance it seems really weak because it's not obvious. But when you think of the possibilities like Pack Flanking+Outflank+Precise Strike+Broken Winged Gambit+Paired Opportunists while using Snake Focus you can see that the Hunter's fighting power can be pretty impressive.
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You can be a Hunter with no Animal Companion and have Animal Focus on you permanently, so there's that.
Play Hunter. Get the Primal Companion Archetype, then let your AC die. Get three levels of Inquisitor, then some levels in classes with sneak attack. Wreck house.
Or "I wanted to play synthesist, but my GM said it was way too over powered".
I mean, with the strength and natural armor boosts alone, it is more than a match for an inquisitor's judgments (and with more uses per day, since minutes/level basically means battles/level)
Primal Companion Hunter is really the ultimate pet class.
1. Full benefits of your animal companion chassis but with evolution on top of it.
2. Access to Ranger/Druid spells for the best companion buff spells.
3. Access to Ranger Skirmisher Tricks in place of normal tricks for your companion.
4. Free teamwork feat sharing. Combined with the one teamwork feat that counts you as flanking if you are mounted on your companion the Hunter is also an obvious choice for mounted combat.
If I ever wanted to be play a pet focused character Hunter is where I'd go.
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Verminous archetype.
Verminous archetype.
Fast heal for life , woot.
I GM'd for a Hunter for a little bit and, well...
The animal companion was by far the most effective party member in combat. It's gotten to the point that Durza the rhino has pretty much hit Chuck Norris levels of Memetic Badass. If Chuck Norris loved strawberries.
The class is a lot of fun.
I know you know what you are doing. So expect there is a good answer to this. How could a rhino AC be the most effective combatant in a party?
Verminous archetype.
I've always wanted to play one. I mean, ALWAYS. Is the consensus that it would actually perform well?
My gut reaction is that vermin companions suck mechanically but the vermin focuses (especially fast healing) go a very long way to make up for it.
I'm also torn on weather or not this archetype pidgeonholes you into melee because of the lack of a DEX focus or if perhaps you could make a solid ranged build around a composite bow. Think about it... Start with a lackluster 12 STR, slap on your strength focus and now you're at 14 and can use a composite 2 bow.
Thoughts?
Fast healing on the AC is only a feat away, with spirits gift. So i expect it is either a dip and a dead AC to get fast healing your self. Or the coolness of going to town on a gigant scorpion that is the appeal.
Thanks. Sounds like multiclass is the way to go with your group:)
Edit:I was thinking the spirits gift to get DR 5/adamantine was involved:)
I know you know what you are doing. So expect there is a good answer to this. How could a rhino AC be the most effective combatant in a party?I GM'd for a Hunter for a little bit and, well...
The animal companion was by far the most effective party member in combat. It's gotten to the point that Durza the rhino has pretty much hit Chuck Norris levels of Memetic Badass. If Chuck Norris loved strawberries.
The class is a lot of fun.
Well, it does basically act like a fighter that just spams vital strike (2d6+1.5str&power attack+2d8). That and a decent AC doesn't hurt its cause.
I would go for an anklosaurus for MVP (stun with a nice strength based DC doesn't hurt either....well....it does, but not your side)
I know you know what you are doing. So expect there is a good answer to this. How could a rhino AC be the most effective combatant in a party?I GM'd for a Hunter for a little bit and, well...
The animal companion was by far the most effective party member in combat. It's gotten to the point that Durza the rhino has pretty much hit Chuck Norris levels of Memetic Badass. If Chuck Norris loved strawberries.
The class is a lot of fun.
Well, it does basically act like a fighter that just spams vital strike (2d6+1.5str&power attack+2d8). That and a decent AC doesn't hurt its cause.
I would go for an anklosaurus for MVP (stun with a nice strength based DC doesn't hurt either....well....it does, but not your side)
But at a level where the AC can get vital strike that is hardly amazing.
Verminous archetype.I've always wanted to play one. I mean, ALWAYS. Is the consensus that it would actually perform well?
My gut reaction is that vermin companions suck mechanically but the vermin focuses (especially fast healing) go a very long way to make up for it.
I'm also torn on weather or not this archetype pidgeonholes you into melee because of the lack of a DEX focus or if perhaps you could make a solid ranged build around a composite bow. Think about it... Start with a lackluster 12 STR, slap on your strength focus and now you're at 14 and can use a composite 2 bow.
Thoughts?
I've always wanted to play one too, here's my theorycraft. A lot of the vermin love to grapple, and there's a Teamwork feat about grappling together, so it seems like a natural marriage.
You could keep a bow around and be a switch-hitter, but I'd make melee my focus for this archetype. Get to some squishy caster type and put your leech hands around them (as well as your actual giant leech).
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Friendly reminder to keep this thread civil. I don't know the general consensus about the Hunter class and I don't want this to turn into a slam thread.
What I want out of this thread is some help to understand why you would ever pick this set of rules above any other class. Are we looking at a new kind of game play (Ex. the way you act in combat)? What builds are we looking at? What's enabled within this class that isn't in any other? Is there anything that eases up some older builds from older classes within this one?
What roles can Hunter fill?
To me it seems like a weaker Ranger but with much more focus on the Animal Companion and more spells. Or something like what the Druid is to the Cleric but to the Inquisitor/Warpriest. So, what can we get out of this?Something I'm seeing that looks fun is martial proficiency in a 6th level spell caster.
Umm when I first saw them in the Beta I had 0 interest in the Hunter since they really didn't do anything better than an inquisitor with the animal domain. Since then though they seem to have come more into their own in the final product and have found more of a niche.
I like them best in games where the occurrence of druids is lessened and the Hunter can fill a cultural role of something like either an inquisitor or ranger/cavalier with a focus on cooperation with your animal companion rather than just flat combat power coming from just the player character. I also like them as nature priests with their connection to an animal companion, animal aspects, and more advanced magic options (as compared to the ranger) having them become more prominent nature priests in most nature societies.
As for builds I'm partial to going verminous hunter archetype, grabbing a preying mantis, and then focusing a grapple build for my animal companion while I go ranged picks and sniping. I use the mantis to engage and give it worm aspect or Leech to either fast healing tank or stack bleed (usually the latter then the former) while I move around picking of stragglers, mooks, or throwing hate on it's grappled target. Wanting to build it as either a ratfolk or dhampir for pfs but right now there's either no good way to give me a firearm progression for the ratfolk or I need the dhampir boon.
The one issue I have is whether or not to give my vermin an Int so it can pick up feats or to leave it mindless to avoid mind effecting effects.
Hope that helps man.
Ohh they also aren't that bad if you are looking to play something like a nature focused version of a summoner, where you the character are not as powerful as your companion and fill more of a support like role in the relationship, with you throwing buff spells on yourself, the party, and the animal companion while they lay down the hate. You meanwhile often run around the back row, popping off shots, throwing some area denial, or generally bogging down targets to set up picks for your party. And you get to do all of that with full martial proficiency which is always nice.
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The thing about verminous is that you can treat your companion as disposable without coming off as a completely horrible person. Your mantis is mindless. It doesn't love you. It doesn't "trust" you. It's just a tool.
Of course you don't have to play your verminous like that, but it's totally valid.
Hunters are a really solid and strong class.
Sure they are not as strong as druids, but they do play with less paperwork.
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The thing about verminous is that you can treat your companion as disposable without coming off as a completely horrible person. Your mantis is mindless. It doesn't love you. It doesn't "trust" you. It's just a tool.
Of course you don't have to play your verminous like that, but it's totally valid.
Ehh I think you could do that with any animal companion depending on your story and the culture you're coming out of. Like if I'm an orc hunter from belkzen who rocks fighting dogs or really any military in general they are likely to not care as much about sacrificing my pet to keep myself alive since they likely prioritize the life of the hunter over the life of the pet which takes longer to train and is more expensive and the mechanics kind of enforce it. Your new pet always starts at your level regardless of the circumstances you got it at.
As for a Vermin you could also play them as loving you it's just in a way that is likely alien to anything a hominid creature like most player races would understand. The best example with a vermin might actually be the fact that it decides to protect you at all considering the solitary nature of most vermin. Creatures like mantises, spiders, and scorpions are naturally solitary so them wanting anything to do with you let alone defend and potentially die for you is probably the greatest sign of their devotion they could think to give. As for more social bugs you could get other stuff, like bees bringing you honey all the time or ants trying to defend the queen (whatever that might be).
Now all that said you and your GM can treat it however, I'm just saying that no animal is more or less a tool it's just based on perception.
Now the biggest issue I've usually found with Verminous Hunter is building a strategy that doesn't involve a lot of grappling. That and the fact that the vermin list is way too small considering all the cool giant bugs they've put out. Where's my Ant Lion that turns into a flying monster?! lol
But at a level where the AC can get vital strike that is hardly amazing.I know you know what you are doing. So expect there is a good answer to this. How could a rhino AC be the most effective combatant in a party?I GM'd for a Hunter for a little bit and, well...
The animal companion was by far the most effective party member in combat. It's gotten to the point that Durza the rhino has pretty much hit Chuck Norris levels of Memetic Badass. If Chuck Norris loved strawberries.
The class is a lot of fun.
Well, it does basically act like a fighter that just spams vital strike (2d6+1.5str&power attack+2d8). That and a decent AC doesn't hurt its cause.
I would go for an anklosaurus for MVP (stun with a nice strength based DC doesn't hurt either....well....it does, but not your side)
I think what he means is that a rhino at level 7 hits for 2d6+2d8+10 on the charge without any other support, which is a pretty crazy amount of damage
Divine Verminous Hunter with a dead pet is one of the most versatile PCs on the planet. If you actually want to use the pet, Primal is amazing. Feral will be better once the errata is official, but the blog post made it clear that everything was tentative.
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Divine Verminous Hunter with a dead pet is one of the most versatile PCs on the planet. If you actually want to use the pet, Primal is amazing. Feral will be better once the errata is official, but the blog post made it clear that everything was tentative.
Mind pointing to the blog post? I am most curious.
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I GM'd for a Hunter for a little bit and, well...
The animal companion was by far the most effective party member in combat. It's gotten to the point that Durza the rhino has pretty much hit Chuck Norris levels of Memetic Badass. If Chuck Norris loved strawberries.
The class is a lot of fun.
That is why the GM wants to ban animal companions.
I would definitely check out the hunter class. It is a lot of fun once you can hit 3rd level, especially if you go melee.
It's a class that really optimizes the usage of your AnC as a cooperative blending. The Teamwork feats make for phenomenal combinations, especially with a melee focused hunter. As the others have mentioned above, once you hit 3rd level you are guaranteed +4 to hit on all attacks as long as you and your AnC are in adjacent squares and threatening the same target. That is NOTHING to sneeze at. Also, if you get your animal buddy an Amulet of Mighty Fists with Menacing on it... Now you're looking at +6 bonus to hit for you and still a +4 for your AnC. That is a lot of bonus to hit... it puts you well over a Full BaB character.
Thanks. Sounds like multiclass is the way to go with your group:)
Edit:I was thinking the spirits gift to get DR 5/adamantine was involved:)Sorry. Gestalt; I denote that by the //.
He's looking heavily at Spirit's Gift. If he'd stayed Hunter it was going to be his next feat; I think the new build will have to wait a little while.
That makes sense and if the gestalt is from having small party ACs can be a good addition.
I think what he means is that a rhino at level 7 hits for 2d6+2d8+10 on the charge without any other support, which is a pretty crazy amount of damageBut at a level where the AC can get vital strike that is hardly amazing.I know you know what you are doing. So expect there is a good answer to this. How could a rhino AC be the most effective combatant in a party?I GM'd for a Hunter for a little bit and, well...
The animal companion was by far the most effective party member in combat. It's gotten to the point that Durza the rhino has pretty much hit Chuck Norris levels of Memetic Badass. If Chuck Norris loved strawberries.
The class is a lot of fun.
Well, it does basically act like a fighter that just spams vital strike (2d6+1.5str&power attack+2d8). That and a decent AC doesn't hurt its cause.
I would go for an anklosaurus for MVP (stun with a nice strength based DC doesn't hurt either....well....it does, but not your side)
That is a avarage of 26 pr round on a hit, at level 7, that is not amazing. Even the vital striking figther would do more. (4d6+6+6+1+2) with str 18 and no items.
That is a avarage of 26 pr round on a hit, at level 7, that is not amazing. Even the vital striking figther would do more. (4d6+6+6+1+2) with str 18 and no items.I think what he means is that a rhino at level 7 hits for 2d6+2d8+10 on the charge without any other support, which is a pretty crazy amount of damageBut at a level where the AC can get vital strike that is hardly amazing.I know you know what you are doing. So expect there is a good answer to this. How could a rhino AC be the most effective combatant in a party?I GM'd for a Hunter for a little bit and, well...
The animal companion was by far the most effective party member in combat. It's gotten to the point that Durza the rhino has pretty much hit Chuck Norris levels of Memetic Badass. If Chuck Norris loved strawberries.
The class is a lot of fun.
Well, it does basically act like a fighter that just spams vital strike (2d6+1.5str&power attack+2d8). That and a decent AC doesn't hurt its cause.
I would go for an anklosaurus for MVP (stun with a nice strength based DC doesn't hurt either....well....it does, but not your side)
Well, the Rhino would have (2d6+2d8+10+6) at level 7 given the same restrictions and power attack. So...six of one, half dozen of the other, really (although it does out to +1 static damage more, and uses a couple larger dice for damage...+3 total).
Not amazing from an optimization stand point...but neither was the rest of the party. And my hypothetical rhino would be at level 7, where the difference between iterative attacks is enough that just grabbing the extra d#'s seems attractive.
SIDENOTE- Hypothetical Rhino. Keeping that on my list of potential band names.
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SIDENOTE- Hypothetical Rhino. Keeping that on my list of potential band names.lol
That's an unequipped, unbuffed rhino don't forget. Get some size increases, or "virtual" size increases on the Rhino, and that 2d6+2d6 (the rhino companion's powerful charge damage is not specified in the stat block, and should be the same as the gore attack itself; d20pfsrd shouldn't have that 2d8 listed) powerful charge starts to get more impressive. Between spells, magic items, and class features boosting the Rhino's strength, the static bonuses can be just as nice.
Depending on exactly what the VMC for Barbarian is, a half orc hunter w/ a barbarian's rage and the right feats could add 8 Str to himself and his Rhino mount (although probably not for long) as well.
That's an unequipped, unbuffed rhino don't forget. Get some size increases, or "virtual" size increases on the Rhino, and that 2d6+2d6 (the rhino companion's powerful charge damage is not specified in the stat block, and should be the same as the gore attack itself; d20pfsrd shouldn't have that 2d8 listed) powerful charge starts to get more impressive. Between spells, magic items, and class features boosting the Rhino's strength, the static bonuses can be just as nice.
Depending on exactly what the VMC for Barbarian is, a half orc hunter w/ a barbarian's rage and the right feats could add 8 Str to himself and his Rhino mount (although probably not for long) as well.
I am not questioning that it can work. I was just asking how it could be the most effecient combatant and we got that one solved some time ago.
That makes sense and if the gestalt is from having small party ACs can be a good addition.Thanks. Sounds like multiclass is the way to go with your group:)
Edit:I was thinking the spirits gift to get DR 5/adamantine was involved:)Sorry. Gestalt; I denote that by the //.
He's looking heavily at Spirit's Gift. If he'd stayed Hunter it was going to be his next feat; I think the new build will have to wait a little while.
Well, the gestalt is because I like gestalt. The other game this group has going is four people and still gestalt. It's just more fun to us. All those occasions on the board when people talk about how they multiclass to realize a concept, we do pretty easily.
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That is cool.
The folks i play with have difficulties fnishing a turn in 5 minutes with only one class so i dont think, or hope, gestalt is gonna happen any time soon:)Edit: some quoting was off
Divine Verminous Hunter with a dead pet is one of the most versatile PCs on the planet. If you actually want to use the pet, Primal is amazing. Feral will be better once the errata is official, but the blog post made it clear that everything was tentative.Mind pointing to the blog post? I am most curious.
Bah, turns out it was just a regular post and not a blog post. That's probably why it took me so long to find it. :-p
Contributor
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Bah, turns out it was just a regular post and not a blog post. That's probably why it took me so long to find it. :-pDivine Verminous Hunter with a dead pet is one of the most versatile PCs on the planet. If you actually want to use the pet, Primal is amazing. Feral will be better once the errata is official, but the blog post made it clear that everything was tentative.Mind pointing to the blog post? I am most curious.
I saw Blessing of the Faithful in HeroLab... I was wondering where it came from. Now I know. :)
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Bah, turns out it was just a regular post and not a blog post. That's probably why it took me so long to find it. :-pDivine Verminous Hunter with a dead pet is one of the most versatile PCs on the planet. If you actually want to use the pet, Primal is amazing. Feral will be better once the errata is official, but the blog post made it clear that everything was tentative.Mind pointing to the blog post? I am most curious.
Oh that post, I had forgotten about it. I am most excited to see the feral hunter get some nice goodies.
On a general note,
I played a Primal Companion Hunter once, I never got past level one because they GM had real life come up, but it was a lot of fun.
I deeply enjoyed making Digimon jokes about my Velociraptor. I think it would have been a fairly strong melee combatant in a few levels.
There was a post a while back about making a primal Hunter (I think, the one with evolutions on the ac) to create a winged Tyrannocerberus. That made me want to play one.
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Verminous archetype.Fast heal for life , woot.
Fast healing is cool and all but the real prize is fortication on you permanently. Was that a crit from a great axe wielding giant? Nope