Templates rarely add HD. The Skeletal Champion is rather rare in what it does.
The other two templates you listed do not add HD, so you're correct thus far.
GMs do have the ability to say "no".
I presume you're talking about "doubling HD" for purposes of Animate Dead?
In that case, I wouldn't count it as just double, either. Probably triple, as otherwise you're getting the second template basically "for free".
Creating a Bloody Skeleton shouldn't cost the same as creating a Bloody Burning Skeleton.
Numerous variant skeletons exist, such as those whose bones burn with an unending fire and those who drip with gore and reassemble themselves over time. Both of these variant skeletons can be created using animate dead, but they count as twice their normal number of Hit Dice per casting.
Yeah, I am generally really lenient as a GM, but I, too, would have a Burning, Bloody Skeleton with 3HD count as 9, since you're using two templates that each double the HD for the purposes of control costs.
However, the more important problem is that Animate Dead doesn't allow you to make Skeletal Champions at all. You can only make specifically:
Skeletons (as well as bloody and/or burning versions) and Zombies (plus fast and plague versions). No other template is allowed.
You can't make Skeletal Champions any more than you could make Wights or Ghosts. Hint: Actually following the necromancy rules means you have really crappy minions. NPC Necromancers invariably break the rules to have threatening minions without being overwhelmingly powerful when the PCs face them.
Numerous variant skeletons exist, such as those whose bones burn with an unending fire and those who drip with gore and reassemble themselves over time. Both of these variant skeletons can be created using animate dead, but they count as twice their normal number of Hit Dice per casting.quite correct.
1 HD converted to a variant skeleton should cost double.
but the various templates are free.
so in the example given a bloody burning skeleton champion is a 6HD creature /9based upon adding the templates to you 1 hd fighter) it has only 3hd...1 attack and is not effective in combat against an 6hd fighter class.
No, a 1 HD Burning skeleton has 1 HD, but it counts as having 2HD for the purpose of animating/controlling it.
And yes, the minions are ineffective. Animate dead minions are generally very ineffective--expect them to die in waves. I wouldn't bother. If you do, you probably want them all to be Bloody Skeletons, just so you eventually get them back later and they can die every fight without costing you spells/onyx.
Oh! I see the problem now.
Going back to my original post, templates rarely add HD.
And none that I know of double the base creature's HD.
That mention of doubling is for purposes of calculating Animate Dead.
Not actual Hit Die.
For ease of reference going forward:
Level cleric 3, sorcerer/wizard 4
Components V, S, M (an onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead)
Targets one or more corpses touchedThis spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies that obey your spoken commands.
Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can't create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. The desecrate spell doubles this limit.
No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Undead you control through the Command Undead feat do not count toward this limit.
Edit: edited out some of the non HD-related content to make it more readable.
So, a 1 HD Skelton would cost 25gp to create.
A 1 HD Burning Skeleton would cost 50gp to create.
And a 1 HD Burning Bloody Skeleton would cost 75gp to create.
Then there'd never be a reason to create "just" a Bloody Skeleton.
Hence why I said earlier, "otherwise you're getting the second template basically "for free"."
It makes much more sense to add the multipliers together.
you just agreed with what I said.
1hd burning skeleton = 2HD for animating controlling
1hd burning bloody skeleton = 2HD
1hd skeleton champion = 6HD
1hd burning skeleton champ = 6HD
1hd bloody Skeleton champ = 6HD
1hd bloody burning skeleton champ = 6 HD
2hd bloody burning Skeleton champ = 8HD
etc etc
No:
1hd burning skeleton = 2HD for animating controlling
1hd burning bloody skeleton = 3HD (because doubling twice is x3 in Pathfinder)
1hd skeleton champion = DOES NOT WORK WITH ANIMATE DEAD AT ALL
1hd burning skeleton champ = DOES NOT WORK WITH ANIMATE DEAD AT ALL
1hd bloody Skeleton champ = DOES NOT WORK WITH ANIMATE DEAD AT ALL
1hd bloody burning skeleton champ = DOES NOT WORK WITH ANIMATE DEAD AT ALL
2hd bloody burning Skeleton champ = DOES NOT WORK WITH ANIMATE DEAD AT ALL
etc etc
Say a 5th level Cleric casts this spell.
They can create 10 "HD worth" of Undead with one casting.
They could create any of the following:
10 Skeletons
5 Bloody Skeletons
5 Burning Skeletons
3 Bloody Burning Skeletons + 1 Skeleton
And other combinations that add up to 10.
but them's the rules ;)
Them is not.
I've provided the relevant quotes.
Each of those variants, independently, cost double.
Mathematically, applying both would mean tripling.
Or even quadrupling, but it's such a sub par tactic already I wouldn't want to suffer that logic upon anyone.
Plus, you still have to get this passed by your GM.
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1hd bloody burning skeleton is 3hd?? can you please provide the link explaining this please
multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
I actually am no longer sure you even can make a burning bloody skeleton. The way the templates read, you pick one of them to alter the skeleton template. Frankly, I don't know how you would combine them anyway because both set Charisma to a specific value. How would you determine which value wins? There's no order of operations here--you don't make the skeleton burning and then bloody, you'd have to make both at the same time. The ambiguity here combined with the RAI of the main template write ups and animate dead suggests to me it's not even possible to do both on one skeleton.
But if you could do both, the relevant text has already been quoted. If one of these templates doubles effective HD, then two would triple, as per the standard doubles stacking.
Frankly, I don't know how you would combine them anyway
Thank you for that. Never noticed myself.
I guess a Bloody Burning Skeleton is a houserule of its own.