PFS Kraken Throttle


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

When using Kraken Throttle and suffocate someone, which part of the suffocate rules do you use for PFS?

1- Do they get a "hold breath" step?
2- Do they go straight to the "unconscious, dying, dead" step?
3- Something else?

How I read RAW, you skip straight to the unconscious, dying, dead" step, since that is the actual suffocation as the feat says. Whereas the previous step not yet suffocating, not said by the feat.

Chokehold specifically says that they hold their breath, wouldn't you say the same thing in this feat?

Yes, this is the more powerful interpretation, but seems like how RAW reads to me. RAI would probably be otherwise

Suffocation wrote:


Suffocation

A character who has no air to breathe can hold her breath for 2 rounds per point of Constitution. If a character takes a standard or full-round action, the remaining duration that the character can hold her breath is reduced by 1 round. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check in order to continue holding her breath. The check must be repeated each round, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous success.

When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates.

Grand Lodge

Well, this would be a general rules question, and not a PFS exclusive question.


Kraken Throttle wrote:
While using this style, you can choke your opponent when you successfully maintain a grapple instead of choosing to damage, move, pin, or tie up your opponent. This suffocates your opponent. The grappled opponent can take a breath during any round in which you do not maintain the grapple.

It seems fairly clear that they can hold their breath, especially based on the bolded text.


Makes sense.... thanks!

Lantern Lodge

Byakko wrote:
It seems fairly clear that they can hold their breath, especially based on the bolded text.

This will most likely be official in a FAQ, but here a little under half way down is Owen K. C. Stephen's response.

Currently it's worded that you instantly die because Kraken Throttle states "This suffocates your opponent" not "this begins suffocation". Certainly not the writer's intent but even if it said begins suffocation there's debate whether you hold you breath or begin saving throws.

Owen K. C. Stephens said it starts with holding their breath which players argue against because it renders the feat worthless.

I would stay away from it it's a trap!

Scarab Sages

It provides extra damage equal to weapon specialization, and it allows you to start cutting off air. Note that being grappled while holding your breath means that any attempt to take an action will be reducing the number of rounds of air they have, will make verbal spells impossible, and will require ever-escalating con checks.

It's not a instant death, but it's a hell of a lot worse than simply being grappled.


once its errata'd, its roughly a style version Chokehold, but a little better since it has no size limits and you don't lose your Dex to AC.

Lantern Lodge

Imbicatus wrote:
It's not a instant death, but it's a hell of a lot worse than simply being grappled.

Read the rest of the above thread after Owens K. C. Stephens ruling. There are other posters more experienced at grapplers than me who provide valid reasons why it's worthless / not worth the investment.


Yeah, looking at the last sentence of Suffocation rules, it uses the same wording as the feat, 'suffocate'. It's pretty clear comparing that.

The author def didn't know what they needed to write make sure their intent was stated clearly in the feat.


Note that statements of developer intent are not PFS binding and you can expect table variation on whatever you think the rules mean. Until there is a blog post, FAQ, or errata (only the first of which is likely given the source book being a Player Companion), the text is the text and GMs will rule on it individually.

GSP explains the developer intent version of Kraken Throttle.


True, but if you look at the text of both, you'll see that instant death is what happens RAW, and RAW is what PFS cares about.

"This suffocates your opponent." -Kraken Throttle
"In the third round, she suffocates." -Suffocation Rules

That's about as cut and dry as it gets. This leaves not wiggle room.

"The grappled opponent can take a breath during any round in which you do not maintain the grapple." -Kraken Throttle

This blurb shows that the author intended for it to begin strangulation like Chokehold. But the rest is written so that this doesn't do anything.

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