Can't play pregen if you have a valid character?


Pathfinder Society

1/5

I was told that there was a rule in PFS that exists stating that if you have a character that is valid for a Scenario that you would like to play in you are not allowed to play a pregen. While I do not doubt that this rule exists as I am new to PFS I would prefer to know where it is written. I can definitely see people wishing to have a passably balanced party and wishing to play a pregen to fill in the gaps. As I plan on GMing from time to time I would rather have this rule on hand so I do not look like a jerkface when I am forced to enforce it.

Could anyone help point me to this rule, please?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The rules relevant to play are those published in the Campaign Guidelines and the Additional Resources section.

Keep also in mind that the ONLY legal pre-gens are the ones downloadable from the Player Resources section in the Pathfinder Society area of this messageboard. Pre-gens from the NPC Codex are NOT valid.

Also keep in mind that if you do play a pre-gen you've got to designate a character to take the hit if the pre-gen dies and that state is not recovered before the session closes.

Grand Lodge 3/5

LazarX wrote:
Keep also in mind that the ONLY legal pre-gens are the ones downloadable from the Player Resources section in the Pathfinder Society area of this messageboard. Pre-gens from the NPC Codex are NOT valid.

According to Additional Resources:

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: NPC Codex

The 1st and 7th level iconic characters found on pages 274-297 may be used in place of the downloadable pregenerated characters found on Paizo.com. The 12th level iconics are not permitted for PFS play. The text in the box on page 275 should be noted before using the iconic characters. The animal companions on pages 298-307 may be used as long as the character meets all the prerequisites to obtain an animal companion.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Here are the relevant bits from the guide, playing a real PC seems to be encouraged, but since that rule has so many loopholes (forgot my character at home, didn't level him up yet, dont have the sources with me - it is not enforceable) so just let people play what they want.

Guide to Organized play Page 6 wrote:

If you don’t have time to create a new character or simply
wish to try out a new character class, you may choose to use
one of several level-appropriate pregenerated characters
available at paizo.com/pathfindersociety or from your
local event coordinator. If you play a 1st-level pregenerated
character, you can apply the credit for her first adventure
to a newly created character of your very own. If you play
a non-1st-level pregenerated character, you apply the
credit to your character as soon as she reaches the level
of the pregenerated character played. You may not apply
a Chronicle sheet earned with a pregenerated character
to a character that was already at the
level of the pregenerated character or
higher, as you should have used this
character for the scenario instead.
The one exception is if you have
multiple Chronicle sheets from
pregenerated characters,
they are applied to your
character’s Chronicle sheet
stack all at once when your
character reaches the
appropriate level,
even if this would
advance your
character several
levels. You may
also opt instead
to apply the Chronicle sheets earned with a non-1st-
level pregenerated character to a 1st-level character with
the amount of gp gained reduced to 500 gp (or 250 gp for
characters using the slow advancement track). You do not
lose access to any of the Prestige Points, or items listed
on the Chronicle sheets that were earned during the
adventure. However, any boons must wait to be utilized
until the character is of the same level as the subtier on the
Chronicle sheet unless otherwise noted. Any equipment
that’s listed on the pregenerated character sheet may only
be sold to clear conditions such as death during the play of
a sanctioned event, and any remaining gold does not carry
over at the end of the adventure.

Page 29 has a slightly different language

Page 29 wrote:

Legal Pathfinder Society Characters
For modules and Adventure Path content below 9th level,
if you do not have a character in the correct level range,
you may use a Pathfinder Society pregenerated character,
available on paizo.com or the 1st- and 7th-level iconic
characters on pages 275–297 of the Pathfinder R PG N PC
Codex. You must apply the credit to your character
as soon as she reaches the level of the pregenerated

character played. If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated
character, you may apply credit from the pregenerated
character to one of your 1st-level characters, w ith
the gp gained reduced to 1,398 gp (or 699 gp for slow
advancement track characters). If you play a non-1st-
level pregenerated character, you may apply the credit
to your character as soon as she reaches the level of the
pregenerated character played. Equipment listed on the
pregenerated character sheet may only be sold to clear
conditions, such as death, during the play of the module
and any remaining gold does not carr y over at the end of
the module.
Alternatively, if you are participating in a Pathfinder
Adventure Path with an ongoing group undertaking the
entire, six-book campaign, you may receive credit for
playing the sanctioned portions of the adventure as if you
had played a pregenerated character. In this case, GMs
running the Adventure Path are not bound to the rules
of the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign (such
as 20 point buy, unavailability of hero points, etc...) when
running the campaign or the sanctioned portion of the
adventure. Pathfinder Society characters and characters
from an ongoing Adventure Path campaign may not play
in the same adventure.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Atticus Blackstone wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Keep also in mind that the ONLY legal pre-gens are the ones downloadable from the Player Resources section in the Pathfinder Society area of this messageboard. Pre-gens from the NPC Codex are NOT valid.

According to Additional Resources:

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: NPC Codex

The 1st and 7th level iconic characters found on pages 274-297 may be used in place of the downloadable pregenerated characters found on Paizo.com. The 12th level iconics are not permitted for PFS play. The text in the box on page 275 should be noted before using the iconic characters. The animal companions on pages 298-307 may be used as long as the character meets all the prerequisites to obtain an animal companion.

The NPC Codex does not include valid 4th level examples. and the fact that you have to use the disclaimer, is why I generally direct people to the PFS official pregens which ....

1. Don't have an additional pargraph of offscreen text you need to worry about.

2. Do include valid 4th level pregens to play

3. Are better organised as one or two sheet broadsides for table play.

and bonus....

4. Include a lot more class choices.

1/5

Perhaps I am being dense here but have I missed where this ruling comes from? I read the links provided, I have read the guides listed and I think I must have still missed it.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Lune wrote:
Perhaps I am being dense here but have I missed where this ruling comes from? I read the links provided, I have read the guides listed and I think I must have still missed it.

Page 29 has a slightly different language

Page 29 wrote:

Legal Pathfinder Society Characters
For modules and Adventure Path content below 9th level,
if you do not have a character in the correct level range,
you may use a Pathfinder Society pregenerated character,
available on paizo.com or the 1st- and 7th-level iconic
characters on pages 275–297 of the Pathfinder R PG N PC
Codex.
You must apply the credit to your character
as soon as she reaches the level of the pregenerated

character played. If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated
character, you may apply credit from the pregenerated
character to one of your 1st-level characters, w ith
the gp gained reduced to 1,398 gp (or 699 gp for slow
advancement track characters). If you play a non-1st-
level pregenerated character, you may apply the credit
to your character as soon as she reaches the level of the
pregenerated character played. Equipment listed on the
pregenerated character sheet may only be sold to clear
conditions, such as death, during the play of the module
and any remaining gold does not carr y over at the end of
the module.
Alternatively, if you are participating in a Pathfinder
Adventure Path with an ongoing group undertaking the
entire, six-book campaign, you may receive credit for
playing the sanctioned portions of the adventure as if you
had played a pregenerated character. In this case, GMs
running the Adventure Path are not bound to the rules
of the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign (such
as 20 point buy, unavailability of hero points, etc...) when
running the campaign or the sanctioned portion of the
adventure. Pathfinder Society characters and characters
from an ongoing Adventure Path campaign may not play
in the same adventure.

It is the" if you do not have a character bit ", I would argue that the wording could be improved, but even if this was a clear cut rule, it is completely unenforceable, so you don't have to.

Players will want to play their own characters, and there is nothing wrong with a player trying a new class for a scenario.

I think the wording on page six "or if you just want to try out a new character class" seems to be rule as intended.

Silver Crusade 3/5

I think it's the wording "if you do not have a character in the correct level range, you may use a Pathfinder Society pregenerated character" on page 28 of Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play and "you may not apply a Chronicle sheet earned with a pregenerated character
to a character that was already at the level of the pregenerated character or higher, as you should have used this character for the scenario instead" from page 6 of the same Guide.

Especially that last part "you should have used that character instead". But as page 6 also points out, "If you don’t have time to create a new character or simply wish to try out a new character class, you may choose to use one of several level-appropriate pregenerated characters".
So it's less that you cannot play a pregen if you have a character at the level of the scenario, and more that you're not allowed to give a chronicle from pregen-played scenario to a character that could have played it themselves. You have to give the chronicle to a lower-level character.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

For scenarios as OP specifically asked about those wrote:
You may not apply a Chronicle sheet earned with a pregenerated character to a character that was already at the level of the pregenerated character or higher, as you should have used this character for the scenario instead.

edit: dang ninjas

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Oh and Lune you did the right thing, by asking about a rule. Some people just tend to state their particular understand as fact.

1/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

So the part about not being able to apply a chronicle sheet to a character whose level is appropriate doesn't really answer the question. There are a lot of situations that would prevent you from having a character to apply the sheet to. As an example, anyone could make a new first level character at any time and play in a 1-5 scenario. But what if you didn't want to make one right then and there but did make a character afterwords? Couldn't you just give the PFS # slot that such a character would take up and give that for which character to apply the chronicle to?

What if you DID have a 1st level character but didn't want to apply THAT particular scenario to that character? Lets say you wanted to make a new 1st level character but just hadn't got around to it yet.

...or what if you aren't even interested in applying the credit to a character? You might say that you have to but I would bring up the situation of evergreen scenarios like Confirmation.

Alright, let me give a specific example:

Lets say that I wanted to get credit in for playing a Kitsune character but didn't have a specific character concept in mind yet. I already have another character that is 1st level. My local PFS group is running a teir 1-5 scenario and they do not have a healer present.

Am I forced to play my 1st level character even though I do not want to? Or can I play a pregen cleric to make the group more legit and apply that chronicle to my yet uncreated Kitsune?

This seems like a very important rule to me because there are some scnarios that have unique boons to them that a player might want to apply to a specific character (like the one that allows Cavaliers to get an Axebeak).

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Lune wrote:

So the part about not being able to apply a chronicle sheet to a character whose level is appropriate doesn't really answer the question. There are a lot of situations that would prevent you from having a character to apply the sheet to. As an example, anyone could make a new first level character at any time and play in a 1-5 scenario. But what if you didn't want to make one right then and there but did make a character afterwords? Couldn't you just give the PFS # slot that such a character would take up and give that for which character to apply the chronicle to?

What if you DID have a 1st level character but didn't want to apply THAT particular scenario to that character? Lets say you wanted to make a new 1st level character but just hadn't got around to it yet.

...or what if you aren't even interested in applying the credit to a character? You might say that you have to but I would bring up the situation of evergreen scenarios like Confirmation.

Alright, let me give a specific example:

Lets say that I wanted to get credit in for playing a Kitsune character but didn't have a specific character concept in mind yet. I already have another character that is 1st level. My local PFS group is running a teir 1-5 scenario and they do not have a healer present.

Am I forced to play my 1st level character even though I do not want to? Or can I play a pregen cleric to make the group more legit and apply that chronicle to my yet uncreated Kitsune?

This seems like a very important rule to me because there are some scnarios that have unique boons to them that a player might want to apply to a specific character (like the one that allows Cavaliers to get an Axebeak).

Level one is a special case but to answer your questions:

Lune wrote:

So the part about not being able to apply a chronicle sheet to a character whose level is appropriate doesn't really answer the question. There are a lot of situations that would prevent you from having a character to apply the sheet to. As an example, anyone could make a new first level character at any time and play in a 1-5 scenario. But what if you didn't want to make one right then and there but did make a character afterwords? Couldn't you just give the PFS # slot that such a character would take up and give that for which character to apply the chronicle to?

You can play an scenario (any scenario really) with a pregen and apply that chronicle to a an unused PFS character number - just tell the GM to reduce the rewards to the level a level 1 character can gain (500 gold IIRC). You can create the character later, just make sure to use the right number (like 25478 - 5 )

Lune wrote:


What if you DID have a 1st level character but didn't want to apply THAT particular scenario to that character? Lets say you wanted to make a new 1st level character but just hadn't got around to it yet.

...or what if you aren't even interested in applying the credit to a character? You might say that you have to but I would bring up the situation of evergreen scenarios like Confirmation.

Alright, let me give a specific example:

Lets say that I wanted to get credit in for playing a Kitsune character but didn't have a specific character concept in mind yet. I already have another character that is 1st level. My local PFS group is running a teir 1-5 scenario and they do not have a healer present.

Am I forced to play my 1st level character even though I do not want to? Or can I play a pregen cleric to make the group more legit and apply that chronicle to my yet uncreated Kitsune?

This seems like a very important rule to me because there are some scnarios that have unique boons to them that a player might want to apply to a specific character (like the one that allows Cavaliers to get an Axebeak).

Your example should work, and not that prior to reaching level 2 that you can recreate any existing character as a kitsune (in the current season, this might very likely change, so playing that character might be a good idea).

Regarding the scenarios with unique boons, yeah if you play them with a pregen it works as you have described. Unfortunately you usually learn about this after you have played the adventure.

After recently playing a scenario with 3 Paladins and a Samurai.. (Overflow Archives) I can attest that it can be fun, but I think the ability to fill an unused niche is a good idea.
People who have played PFS for a number of years quite often have plenty of options for every scenario, but since new players lack them, I see no reason to punish the group for having a new player, and to punish the new player.

So yeah go for it, and if any GM gives you grief, just don't bring your usual characters with you.

However it is worth mentioning, that in the highest tier 7-11 using pregens can make you unpopular, since a level 7 character usually can't contribute their fair share to a group of level 10 and 11 characters.
This doesn't mean, that a new player without high level characters should avoid playing those scenarios, but once you have a valid character... well talk to your party.
I have played the level 7 pregen version of our iconic skald in several 7-11 scenarios, and I never felt like I could not contribute (in fact, both scenarios features a magical darkness, and his oil of daylight was quite useful).

1/5

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
You can play an scenario (any scenario really) with a pregen and apply that chronicle to a an unused PFS character number - just tell the GM to reduce the rewards to the level a level 1 character can gain (500 gold IIRC). You can create the character later, just make sure to use the right number (like 25478 - 5 )

See, that is the exact situation that came up and I was told that I HAD to use the character that I had.

I mean, I could have lied and said that I forgot to bring the character but I don't really like doing that kinda thing.

What should I do?

edit: I should specify. I meant, "What should I do if/when this happens in the future?"

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Lune wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
You can play an scenario (any scenario really) with a pregen and apply that chronicle to a an unused PFS character number - just tell the GM to reduce the rewards to the level a level 1 character can gain (500 gold IIRC). You can create the character later, just make sure to use the right number (like 25478 - 5 )

See, that is the exact situation that came up and I was told that I HAD to use the character that I had.

I mean, I could have lied and said that I forgot to bring the character but I don't really like doing that kinda thing.

What should I do?

edit: I should specify. I meant, "What should I do if/when this happens in the future?"

Some GMs don't like it when players use pregens in scenarios, that have the reputation to be a bit of a meat grinder. Still personally I think the rule is pretty clear.

Ideally talk to your GM, show him that the guide says "should have played that character", and should is most definitely not "must".
And the text on page 29 actually covers playing modules so, it is questionable if it even applies to scenarios.

Talking to the other players could work too, they might/will have an oppinion on the issue, and if you and the other players can decide who plays a pregen ahead of time... you don't have to bring your material.

I appreciate the fact, that this tactic is a bit dishonest, and I think that Paizo would prefer people to play "real" characters (thus boosting book sales), but I see very little chance for abuse here.

Of course your GM is always free not to GM for you, if he feels that what you are doing is cheating, but the same is true for people who play horribly powerful characters.

EDIT: Communication really is key here, it might be entirely possible, that the GM thinks that he has to enforce this rule as (not ) written.

If talking to him (and the other players) about this matter does not work, maybe talk to his VO or VL how he feels about this issue, and how other GMs in your area deal with it (this should not go into the area of GM shaming, but sending a polite question to your VO should always be an option - when in doubt, just don't mention the identity of that GM yet... of course your VO can actually get that information with very little difficulty).

1/5

The person to whom I am referring IS an VL. I could bring it to the VO, but I'd rather it not come across as a complaint. I otherwise really like our VL.

Sovereign Court 5/5

Generally the rule exists to prevent abuse.

If the rule didn't exist, you could just always play pregens and never expend your own expendibles or expose your own PCs to any risk.*

"If you have an eligible character, then you have to play it instead of a pregen" is a fairly simple and common sense rule.

*=having to buy off conditions isn't being "exposed to risk". I mean stuff that can't be fixed by gold and PA, like destroyed/lost equipment.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Legal Pathfinder Society Characters
For modules and Adventure Path content below 9th level,
if you do not have a character in the correct level range,
you may use a Pathfinder Society pregenerated character,
.....

It is this section that I have had quoted most often as the reason why some GMs say that if you have a character in the correct level range you cannot play a pregen instead.

It doesn't say the reverse is also true, but several assume it - and it does say for adventure path and module, which is often also missed.

1/5

So I'm confused. Is that passage not meant to include Scenarios?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

This has been brought up before, as written you can play a pregen in a scenario even if you have a PC that you can play. The only restriction is what you can put the credit on.

This is the rule in question

PFS Guide pg 6 wrote:
If you play a 1st-level pregenerated character, you can apply the credit for her first adventure to a newly created character of your very own. If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated character, you apply the credit to your character as soon as she reaches the level of the pregenerated character played. You may not apply a Chronicle sheet earned with a pregenerated character to a character that was already at the level of the pregenerated character or higher, as you should have used this character for the scenario instead.

No where does it say you can't play a pregen if you have a PC of that level of the scenario, though at the end it kind of criticizes you if you didn't use that PC.

1/5

Well, the only reason I could see doing it is to make a group legitimate by providing a healer or something of the kin.

Is there any way to get an "official" ruling on this?

I mean, the problem is this. I see me bringing this up to my VL going something like this, "Hey, can you take a look at this thread where these people say you are ruling on this wrong? Oh, by the way... that is totally not my board handle. Yeah, I know you can look it up but I would rather that you just take my word on it. I don't want you to think I am some kind of jerkface just coming in and telling you how to run your region even though that is exactly what I am doing."

See, I'm not trying to be a martyr or anything but I strongly reside in the side of the camp that allowing people to play pregens even though they have a character that is valid for the scenario would lead to a MORE enriching game. It is hard to imagine a scenario where this would lead to abuse, actually. It would be really convenient if there was an official ruling and I could just have it mysteriously dropped off to my VL rather than having to shove it in their face. :/

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Lune wrote:

Well, the only reason I could see doing it is to make a group legitimate by providing a healer or something of the kin.

Is there any way to get an "official" ruling on this?

Offical ruling is the Guide, point out the guide to the VL to show his mistake. VOs make mistakes as well, and the majority are willing to realize that and correct it

5/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
You may not apply a Chronicle sheet earned with a pregenerated character to a character that was already at the level of the pregenerated character or higher, as you should have used this character for the scenario instead.

This simply means, if you played a level 4 pregen, you can only apply the chronicle to a character level 3 or lower, and if you play a level 7 pregen, you can only apply the chronicle to a character level 6 or lower. In any of those cases, the character you apply the chronicle to will have to wait until he/she reaches the level of the pregen you played before the chronicle takes effect. So you can't apply pregen credit to a character that will benefit immediately, because if you want the character to gain XP, prestige, and gold immediately, you should have actually played that character.

Quote:
For modules and Adventure Path content below 9th level, if you do not have a character in the correct level range, you may use a Pathfinder Society pregenerated character

The important part is not "if you do not have a character in the correct level range", but "content below 9th level". A 9th level module is tier 8-10, and for that tier and above, there are no PFS legal pregens.

This part simply means that there are no special pregens higher than level 7 for use in modules. Everything that requires a character of level 8 or above has to be played with non-pregen characters.

So, there is no rule against playing a pregen when you have characters in the scenario's level range.
You could even have a huge binder full of level 4 PFS characters lying right next to you and you would still be allowed to play a level 4 pregen. (You just wouldn't be allowed to apply the chronicle to any of those level 4 characters.)

Silver Crusade 3/5

Andreas Forster wrote:


So, there is no rule against playing a pregen when you have characters in the scenario's level range.

You could even have a huge binder full of level 4 PFS characters lying right next to you and you would still be allowed to play a level 4 pregen. (You just wouldn't be allowed to apply the chronicle to any of those level 4 characters.)

Quoted for truth. This is the rule. The guide isn't crystal clear but this is what it says when properly parsed.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Steven Lau wrote:
VOs make mistakes as well...

BLASPHEMER! ;) j/k

All of the VOs I know are good about listening to other points of view with an open mind.

1/5

So, you couldn't, for instance, play the barbarian pregen until you collect enough XP and then apply that to Gunslinger to get 2nd level and spend all of the money you have made along the way on your brand spankin new Gunslinger?

... cause that stuff happens all the time. I went to a con and talked to 3 different players who did that very thing.

Is that against rules?

Scarab Sages 4/5

Lune wrote:

So, you couldn't, for instance, play the barbarian pregen until you collect enough XP and then apply that to Gunslinger to get 2nd level and spend all of the money you have made along the way on your brand spankin new Gunslinger?

... cause that stuff happens all the time. I went to a con and talked to 3 different players who did that very thing.

Is that against rules?

That would be fine. 1st level is special, because of the rebuild rules.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Lune wrote:

So, you couldn't, for instance, play the barbarian pregen until you collect enough XP and then apply that to Gunslinger to get 2nd level and spend all of the money you have made along the way on your brand spankin new Gunslinger?

... cause that stuff happens all the time. I went to a con and talked to 3 different players who did that very thing.

Is that against rules?

You could play the barbarian pregen 3 times and always apply the chronicles to your new characer. After that one has enough XP for level two you can stat him and go shopping.

An alternative solution would be to actually build a barbarian, play him for 3 sessions and then retrain into gunslinger - this has the advantage, that you can already spend your prestige and buy a wand of cure light woulds (so other players won't have to cover your healing expenses).

But ideas are entirely legal, as is the option to GM and apply the GM chronicle to a new/uncreated character. If you GM often enough, essentially you never have to play at level one again.

Silver Crusade 3/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Lune wrote:

So, you couldn't, for instance, play the barbarian pregen until you collect enough XP and then apply that to Gunslinger to get 2nd level and spend all of the money you have made along the way on your brand spankin new Gunslinger?

... cause that stuff happens all the time. I went to a con and talked to 3 different players who did that very thing.

Is that against rules?

For the purpose of illustration, let's assume you have three character concepts, named Alex the Alchemist, Bob the Barbarian, Carl the Cleric. All are level one with zero XP. Let's look at some things you can do, then we will look at some things you cannot do.

CAN DO:

  • Play the pregen barbarian three times in a scenario that includes level 1 in its tier. and apply those chronicles to Bob the Barbarian.
  • Play the pregen cleric once, the pregen fighter once, and the pregen ninja once (just to try some other classes) and apply all that credit to Alex the Alchemist.
  • Play the 4th-level pregen sorcerer in a higher level game (say a 3-7) and take a reduced chronicle to apply to Carl the Cleric.
  • GM two 1st-level scenarios to apply to Carl the Cleric also.
  • GM 6 scenarios and apply those to Bob the Barbarian (who now has a total of 9 XP). Then build a 4th-level version of Bob the Barbarian and spend all of the gold you gained by GMing and running pregens and start playing him.
  • Play the 7th-level pregen gunslinger in a high-tier game, assign that chronicle to Bob the Barbarian, and apply it to Bob as soon as Bob reaches 7th-level.
  • Play the 4th-level pregen rogue in a mid-tier game and hold the chronicle for Alex the Alchemist in the same way as above.

Now your characters have the following XP:
Alex has 3 XP and is 2nd level. Alex also has 1 XP waiting for him when he reaches 4th level.
Bob has 9 XP and is 4th level. Similarly, Bob has 1 XP waiting for him when he reaches 7th level.
Carl has 3 XP and is 2nd level.

At this point, none of your characters have played a game above 1st level, so...
CAN DO:

  • Rebuild Bob the Barbarian into Bob the Bard.
  • Rebuild Alex the Alchemist into Gus the Gunslinger.
  • Rebuild Carl the Cleric into Doris the Druid.

Now some things you cannot do with Bob, Gus, or Doris at this point.
CANNOT DO:

  • Play a 4th-level pregen and apply credit to Bob. If you wanted credit for Bob from that scenario, you should have played Bob in that scenario because he is 4th-level and can play in that scenario.
  • Play Gus the Gunslinger in a scenario, then rebuild Gus back into Alex the Alchemist. If you play that character as Gus, he forever remains as Gus.

I hope these examples are useful.

Edit: more things you can do.
CAN DO:

  • Rebuild Doris the Druid into Alex the Alchemist (because Doris still has not played above level 1).
  • Build a 1st-level clone of the pregen barbarian, name him Bob II and start playing him as a fourth character (your "dash four").

Scarab Sages

Maybe I am missing something but one point I would like to note in this.. If I have a level appropriate character that has already played the particular scenario but the numbers at the event need one more person to make a legal table then it seems to me under the GM ruling that you cant play a pregen how could you fill the required table spot?

Sovereign Court 5/5

Yuri Sarreth wrote:
Maybe I am missing something but one point I would like to note in this.. If I have a level appropriate character that has already played the particular scenario but the numbers at the event need one more person to make a legal table then it seems to me under the GM ruling that you cant play a pregen how could you fill the required table spot?

If your PC(s) that are in-level for a given scenario already have a chronicle for that scenario, none are eligible. Because no PFS rule allows putting duplicate chronicles on the same PC.

Therefore the 'no pregens if you have an eligible PC' rule doesn't kick in.

5/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

Yuri Sarreth wrote:
Maybe I am missing something but one point I would like to note in this.. If I have a level appropriate character that has already played the particular scenario but the numbers at the event need one more person to make a legal table then it seems to me under the GM ruling that you cant play a pregen how could you fill the required table spot?

- If you have a character that already has a chronicle for a given scenario, that character may not play the scenario again, whether he's level-appropriate or not. That much is right.

- You can only replay that scenario for no credit to make the table size legal, unless you either use a GM-star-replay or the scenario is tier 1 only or tier 1-2 only (aka evergreens).
- As mentioned above, you always have the option of playing a level-appropriate pregen, whether or not any of your own characters are level-appropriate or not.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

A lot of the time, a veteren player will be asked to play for one reason or another and he may not have his characters on him, either he expected to play another tier or he was a GM for a table that fell through.

He can play a pregen instead in that case. The chronicle will most likely go toward a first level (500 gold for those above tier 1-2) or be a lower level character that will apply the chronicle once the character hits the level of the tier.

PFS allows for that.

1/5

Well, I know at least one VL that disagrees, thaX.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Lune wrote:
Well, I know at least one VL that disagrees, thaX.

That VL is mistaken. It happens. Talk to him/her as politely as possible, and ask that they follow up with other VOs for confirmation.

If that fails...

Send a PM to Michael Brock and ask (again, politely) that he clarify this rule for you and/or your VOs.


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LazarX wrote:
Also keep in mind that if you do play a pre-gen you've got to designate a character to take the hit if the pre-gen dies and that state is not recovered before the session closes.

I just wanted to touch base on this. It is correct, but doesn't tell the whole story and I would hate for someone to get the wrong idea.

The PFS FAQ says

PFS FAQ wrote:
Player characters and pregenerated characters who do not return to the realm of the living receive 0 XP, 0 PP, 0 gold, and no items or boons. This is marked on their Chronicle sheet along with a note that the character is permanently dead. If a player was planning to hold the Chronicle from a pregenerated character and apply it to a lower level PC once the PC reached the level of the pregenerated character, they must either apply the Chronicle sheet immediately and report the PC as dead or assign the Chronicle sheet to a new level 1 PC (ie a new PC number) and report that character as dead.

So if your pregen dies you do have to apply it to a character, but it doesn't have to be the one you planned on at the beginning of the session, and doesn't even have to be one you had built/statted up. You can create a new PC number and assign the chronicle and death to that number.

Grand Lodge 5/5

The Fox wrote:
Lune wrote:
Well, I know at least one VL that disagrees, thaX.

That VL is mistaken. It happens. Talk to him/her as politely as possible, and ask that they follow up with other VOs for confirmation.

If that fails...

Send a PM to Michael Brock and ask (again, politely) that he clarify this rule for you and/or your VOs.

1. The examples the Fox lists in its (his? her?) previous post are very good.

2. Yes, the VL is mistaken. Do not report the incorrect handling directly to Mike. If the VL isnt willing to admit that they are wrong, it should be escelated to their VC, not to Mike.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane

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Seth Gipson wrote:
The Fox wrote:
Lune wrote:
Well, I know at least one VL that disagrees, thaX.

That VL is mistaken. It happens. Talk to him/her as politely as possible, and ask that they follow up with other VOs for confirmation.

If that fails...

Send a PM to Michael Brock and ask (again, politely) that he clarify this rule for you and/or your VOs.

1. The examples the Fox lists in its (his? her?) previous post are very good.

2. Yes, the VL is mistaken. Do not report the incorrect handling directly to Mike. If the VL isnt willing to admit that they are wrong, it should be escelated to their VC, not to Mike.

As a VL who was originally confused by this rule, I am thankful for this thread and others like it as they are great tools to both provide clarifications on rules as well as assisting in maintaining consistency in our community. I did inform someone at our last gaming session that they could not play a pregen if they had a character in level. I have found, after reading this thread that I was mistaken and will be ruling this situation correctly in the future.

Thank you for the clarification and my thanks to The Fox for his great examples.

Grand Lodge 2/5

The Fox, one thing your examples didn't cover, which is what this topic was based around. Under "Cannot do" you've got "Play a 4th-level pregen and apply credit to Bob". Sure, you can't apply it to Bob, but your post doesn't explain if you can simply play a 4th level pregen when you've already got a 4th level character.

Grand Lodge 5/5

claudekennilol wrote:
The Fox, one thing your examples didn't cover, which is what this topic was based around. Under "Cannot do" you've got "Play a 4th-level pregen and apply credit to Bob". Sure, you can't apply it to Bob, but your post doesn't explain if you can simply play a 4th level pregen when you've already got a 4th level character.

To answer the question...yes, you can play a pregen, but Bob couldnt get the credit since Bob is already level 4.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Seth Gipson wrote:
... but Bob couldnt get the credit since Bob is already level 4.

Yes, he covered that quite well. But thank you for answering.

Silver Crusade 3/5

claudekennilol wrote:
The Fox, one thing your examples didn't cover, which is what this topic was based around. Under "Cannot do" you've got "Play a 4th-level pregen and apply credit to Bob". Sure, you can't apply it to Bob, but your post doesn't explain if you can simply play a 4th level pregen when you've already got a 4th level character.

My post does cover that, it just doesn't do a very good job of calling it out. Thanks for pointing that out.

The Fox wrote:
CAN DO:
  • Play the pregen barbarian three times in a scenario that includes level 1 in its tier. and apply those chronicles to Bob the Barbarian.
  • Play the pregen cleric once, the pregen fighter once, and the pregen ninja once (just to try some other classes) and apply all that credit to Alex the Alchemist.

  • GM 6 scenarios and apply those to Bob the Barbarian (who now has a total of 9 XP). Then build a 4th-level version of Bob the Barbarian and spend all of the gold you gained by GMing and running pregens and start playing him.
  • Play the 7th-level pregen gunslinger in a high-tier game, assign that chronicle to Bob the Barbarian, and apply it to Bob as soon as Bob reaches 7th-level.
  • Play the 4th-level pregen rogue in a mid-tier game and hold the chronicle for Alex the Alchemist in the same way as above.

Here I’ve highlighted it for you. It is the last bullet point. At the time, Bob has 9 XP (so is level 4) and one chronicle waiting in the wind. Alex has 3 XP. So we can play the 4th-level pregen rogue (even if we have Bob with us in our backpack) in a Tier 3-7 game and assign that chronicle to Alex (who must wait until he is 4th-level to receive the chronicle), but we cannot assign that credit to Bob.

I hope that is more clear. :)

Grand Lodge 2/5

The Fox wrote:
I hope that is more clear. :)

You're right, thanks for point it out. I just missed that by the time I got to the end, apparently.

4/5

a lot of good advice... as you can see the rules are in 2 different places in the PFS Guide to Organized Play.

In practical PFS play you'll run into 3 situations more frequently.
1) someone with out of tier characters plays a pregen. Usually it's a newbie playing up with a pregen as that's his only option to play. It can be a veteran with GM babies that aren't fleshed out and to save time just whips out a pregen (see #3).
2) someone forgets their stuff.
3) someone plays Kyra as there is no cleric in the party (year 0, 1, 4).

sometimes a chronicle gets applied to character that could have played (mistakes happen). The player should contact the GM or local VO so the chronicle and reporting can be updated.

{Edit - the PFS FAQ 2012 post specifically allows changing the character number when saving the chronicle for a lower level character, so just ignore me here, thanks for the comments}
When you sign up at a table before the GM starts you give the GM your PFS#-character#. If your PC dies you should not change the character#. You knew the consequences and accepted them when you started. Changing the number, while not specifically prohibited, is clearly an attempt to dodge the consequences of your actions. It's not ethical or professional. Use a "new" or first level character number from the start if you are forced to play a generic. My example would be that the PFS Guide does not prohibit real life criminal behaviour but that does not mean you can do it anyway.

Grand Lodge 5/5

claudekennilol wrote:
Seth Gipson wrote:
... but Bob couldnt get the credit since Bob is already level 4.
Yes, he covered that quite well. But thank you for answering.

I was answering the question you were insisting he hadnt answered...and now you say he did answer it...

1/5

Stephen Ross: That seems how I interpreted it as well. Well... with the possible exception of the "criminal behavior" bit.

Sovereign Court 3/5 ****

Stephen Ross wrote:
When you sign up at a table before the GM starts you give the GM your PFS#-character#. If your PC dies you should not change the character#. You knew the consequences and accepted them when you started. Changing the number, while not specifically prohibited, is clearly an attempt to dodge the consequences of your actions. It's not ethical or professional.

Except that the PFS FAQ expressly permits this.

5/5

Talon Stormwarden wrote:
Stephen Ross wrote:
When you sign up at a table before the GM starts you give the GM your PFS#-character#. If your PC dies you should not change the character#. You knew the consequences and accepted them when you started. Changing the number, while not specifically prohibited, is clearly an attempt to dodge the consequences of your actions. It's not ethical or professional.

Except that the PFS FAQ expressly permits this.

This. It's not unethical nor is it against the rules/criminal. It is specifically called out as acceptable behavior by Campaign Staff in the form of a FAQ. Making someone feel as if they are dishonest or a cheat for using a specifically permitted option while playing a pregen is not really conducive to good gaming IMO.

4/5

Talon Stormwarden wrote:
Stephen Ross wrote:
When you sign up at a table before the GM starts you give the GM your PFS#-character#. If your PC dies you should not change the character#. You knew the consequences and accepted them when you started. Changing the number, while not specifically prohibited, is clearly an attempt to dodge the consequences of your actions. It's not ethical or professional.

Except that the PFS FAQ expressly permits this.

OOOPS... I stand corrected on that (thanks). This would seem to cover most of the Pregen use cases above first level. {good thing I haven't had this situation, so mistakes pre-avoided!}

PFS FAQ 2012 wrote:

If my PC or pregenerated character dies permanently, what happens?

Player characters and pregenerated characters who do not return to the realm of the living receive 0 XP, 0 PP, 0 gold, and no items or boons. This is marked on their Chronicle sheet along with a note that the character is permanently dead. If a player was planning to hold the Chronicle from a pregenerated character and apply it to a lower level PC once the PC reached the level of the pregenerated character, they must either apply the Chronicle sheet immediately and report the PC as dead or assign the Chronicle sheet to a new level 1 PC (ie a new PC number) and report that character as dead.

Grand Lodge 2/5

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Seth Gipson wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
Seth Gipson wrote:
... but Bob couldnt get the credit since Bob is already level 4.
Yes, he covered that quite well. But thank you for answering.
I was answering the question you were insisting he hadnt answered...and now you say he did answer it...

I meant that he covered that you cannot apply pregen credit to a character that is already the level of the pregen, but that he didn't cover* whether or not you could actually play a pregen if you had an appropriately leveled character.

*and he did cover this, I just missed that line within the rest of his post the first time I read it.

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