Melodies of Inner Beauty, Shelyn Holy Text


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


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Why is it that Paizo hasn't expanded upon this either in Jade Regent book #2 in the Shelyn article or in Inner Sea Gods? There is only one line:

"Fill your heart, eyes, and mind with the beauty of the world. Without beauty and love, we are nothing."

Yet there is a long Paladin Code. I currently have one Shelynite Cleric and I'm making a Tiefling Gunslinger Shlynite for Adventure Path Jade Regent and I wish to quote more from The Melodies of Inner Beauty.

I'm not even sure if I'm posting in the right forum either. I did a search and couldn't find the topic of Inner Sea Gods or Melodies of Inner Beauty, but that could be User problems on my end.

Silver Crusade Contributor

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I'm with you. :)

Sczarni

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Seamstress_Druid wrote:

Why is it that Paizo hasn't expanded upon this either in Jade Regent book #2 in the Shelyn article or in Inner Sea Gods? There is only one line:

I'm pretty sure none of the holy texts have been expanded upon.


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Fill your heart, eyes, and mind
with the beauty of the world
Without beauty and love
we are nothing

Live your life as art
And see the beauty in others
For the temple of the golden rose
Can only be entered by loving

Let her divine expression guide
and fill the joy inside you
Lovely as her blue and silver eyes
Pretty as the songbird sings

So lead by example
Not by blade
for the love of the eternal rose
is the greatest of all things

No, I think I liked next posters poem better ;)


Tcho Tcho wrote:

Fill your heart, eyes, and mind

with the beauty of the world
Without beauty and love
we are nothing

Live your life as art
And see the beauty in others
For the temple of the golden rose
Can only be entered by loving

Let her divine expression guide
and fill the joy inside you
Lovely as her blue and silver eyes
Pretty as the songbird sings

So lead by example
Not by blade
for the love of the eternal rose
is the greatest of all things

No, I think I liked next posters poem better ;)

Thank you so much! From what source does this hail?


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Ehh. Its just random words about shelyn from the Inner Sea Gods.
With a couple rhyme words added.
It isn't official or paizo made.

Probably other forum member will be able to make one a lot better. I'm a newby from a non english country.
Anyone in to help making Shelyn holy texts for the OP?

Silver Crusade Contributor

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If I could devote the time and mental energy, I totally would. Maybe inspiration will strike. :)

Either way, I'm interested to see where this thread goes.


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I think you did an amazing job Tcho Tcho.

Since her family is very important to her and suffered tragedy, surely it should also be mentioned but not without hope at the end of the dark tunnel. It's at least mentioned that she still loves her brother and hopes he can be restored. In other words as long as one has hope in their heart there is always love and light at the end of the tunnel. But how to write it? In fact from Night of Frozen Shadows we get this:

"Holy Text

Melodies of Inner Beauty is the holy text of the church of Shelyn. It contains the history of the goddess, including her family, though drawing a veil over the nastier elements about Zon-Kuthon. It tells stories about Shelyn and discusses her church's dogma. Music is used throughout as many of the tales are set as songs and hymns. Other artistic ways of interpreting the words are also utilized, such as dance and poetry. Other divinely inspired works also exist, some going into more detail about Dou-Bral and Zon-Kuthon. "

And her Dogma:

"Dogma

Beauty

Before she became the goddess of love, Shelyn was flighty and shallow. Since discovering the capacity intelligent beings have for loving people and things that lack beauty, she tends to look for beauty in everyone and everything. “Beauty comes from within” is a relatively recent saying she introduced to Golarion, and it’s a philosophy she not only practices herself, but she requires from her clerics. In this way, it’s quite possible for a physically unattractive person to become a cleric of the goddess of beauty.

Shelyn’s is a unique beauty unparalleled in the multiverse. She is (now) beautiful both without and within; all who see her see what they envision as the most perfect beauty (meaning she appears different to everyone). Depictions of Shelyn, regardless of race or ethnicity, show her as a young woman barely out of her youth, with eyes of blue or silver. Shelyn's ankle-length chestnut hair bears several strands colored bright red, green, and gold. She always wears tasteful clothing and jewelry that accentuates her beauty without revealing too much of it. [from Erik Mona & Jason Bulmahn. (2008). Gazetteer, Paizo Publishing, LLC. ISBN 978-1-60125-077-3]

Shelyn focuses just as much attention on internal beauty as external, and she is considered also to have the most beautiful personality (which changed greatly when she became goddess of love, such to the point that some wonder if a little of her mother’s personality didn’t meld with hers). Thus, while lesser beauties might inspire jealousy in those who see them, she does not. Nor does she herself feel jealousy when a lesser beauty (i.e., any other) receives attention. She encourages the growth and appreciation of beauty, regardless of its source or admirers, and thus she is never jealous. She surrounds herself with flowers, colorful birds, artworks, and other things of beauty.

She doesn't use her beauty as a weapon (and she punishes that sort of behavior from her followers) and gently and kindly rejects all potential suitors. Some call her an eternal maiden (or sometimes, The Eternal Maiden), while others claim she is the lover of several gods, goddesses, and lesser beings. The truth, of course, is unknown. (Darker rumors put her in the bed of her half brother, but such whispered rumors never persist for very long, as Zon-Kuthon does not tolerate such things.)

Art and Music

As aspects of her role as goddess of beauty, Shelyn also promotes the creation of art and the composing and performance of music. The art or music need not be particularly well done, just so long as the creator puts in effort. A naturally-talented person who doesn’t try but still makes beautiful art is appreciated, just not as much as an ungifted artist who struggles for days but still creates something only mediocre. A naturally-talented person who doesn’t try and creates something mediocre is shunned by Shelyn (and by extension, her clergy). Clerics of Shelyn frequently are artists themselves, although those without any talent more often become art critics or collectors.
Shelyn herself has an extensive collection of artwork (mostly gifts from potential suitors or worshipers, and most of which portray her). She also has a massive collection of violins (she is likely the greatest violinist in the multiverse) and a secret one of glaives (given to her by Zon-Kuthon or his followers as a sort of dark joke).

Love

As the goddess of love, Shelyn encourages the proliferation of the feeling in all its forms. She is not the goddess of sexuality, lust, or fertility, and makes a very clear distinction between love and sexuality (although she does not in any way discourage erotic love). The few paladins who worship her practice courtly love, with female paladins attempting to win the attentions of attractive young noblemen (or sometimes, attractive young noblewomen). Shelyn and her clerics treat homosexual love as equal to heterosexual love."

[Note: All information in quotation marks " " come directly from http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Shelyn#cite_note-CMR-p18-5 ]

______________________
Now for adding some lines for the Melodies (though they could be edited):

Let not the pain of lost love
Consume you with grief and tragedy
Believe with hope in your heart
That you will be reunited once more

In my halls you shall walk
With your true love embraced
Keep true to your love
And in your dreams hold them again

Beauty comes from Within
From thy heart and soul
Judge not by the thorns of the bush
But from the rose found within

Souls that are lost
Are souls to be found
What can be corrupted
Can be made pure

Believe in your hearts
That evil can be redeemed
Accept them for their flaws
And they'll learn to smile and sing

For one month love a ZonZon doll
And gift this to your "sibling"
In light of Crystalhue
Their dark soul be redeemed

[Note: ZonZon Doll of Forgiveness is from Inner Sea Gods.]
_______________

This is what I have so far could use editing I think.


Like !


Thank you Tcho Tcho.

What about you Kalindlara? I'm eager to see what you'll add to here.

Also my Jade Regent GM has allowed me to quote these because Paizo didn't write the Melodies to it's full extent so as long as it sounds like something that would be in the Melodies then yay!


Dot!

Silver Crusade Contributor

Still thinking, sorry. :(

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Finally came up with something, even if it is a little silly. :)

(From other thread) Don't disregard a color on your palette - you need every hue to paint the world.

Hopefully the inspiration will start flowing now...


Seamstress_Druid wrote:

{. . .}

Shelyn’s is a unique beauty unparalleled in the multiverse. She is (now) beautiful both without and within; all who see her see what they envision as the most perfect beauty (meaning she appears different to everyone). {. . .}

So now this brings up a question: What does she look like to someone whose concept of beauty has been completely wrecked by disillusionment (or worse), or to someone who has no concept of beauty at all?

An artificial intelligence might well fall into the latter category, and those who have been shown that there is no truth in beauty could fall into the former category, while those that have suffered the depredations of fiends (including some fiends themselves) might fall into either category.

Silver Crusade Contributor

An AI might see her as "the optimal form" - or even be awakened to the concept of beauty by her divine presence. (Now I want to play a Shelynite in Iron Gods!)

As for fiends and the fiend-scarred, it reminds me of the scene in Return of the King where, on the slopes of Mount Doom, the hobbits see a patch of starry sky through the smoke...

Just my thoughts. :)


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To build on this a little: "artificial intelligence" is a very, very broad term. Siri, for example, though extremely useful, and technically an "artificial intelligence", is not within the same category as an in-game AI, as, at best, Siri has a WIS score or and INT score, but not both (and either way, it's not very big). Siri is less similar to a "creature" than "she" is a "magic-like set of contingency effects", I'd say. Siri, OkGoogle, ASIMO, and Deep Blue all represent some of the pinnacles (in various ways and various times) of our AI technology - but none of them are independent or truly self-aware.

In that sense, an A.I. in the PF universe - one that we would recognize there, with three mental ability scores - would have the capacity by definition to expand their list of preconceived definitions. In other words, they can learn and reason. If they could not, they would not be an (in-game) "AI". It is by way of this that Beauty would become a Thing to them, even if it were lacking previously. Hence, to them, Shelyn would be a revelation - something beyond their ability to comprehend.

Fiends, on the other hand, no matter what they are, definitely have a sense of Beauty. This is innate - either it is because they like that thing innately, or they cannot help but recognize something beyond themselves and their limits. Shelyn would likely represent something so far to the latter, that they are entirely incapable of hating it. It confounds and confuses them - literally so much Other that, instead of having a "proper" reaction, they just... stop hating her for some reason.

Fiend- (or other-)scarred are often used as "ur-examples" of those too "broken" to view beauty. But, in truth, this is false. You'd have to presume a falsehood - to presume that there is no Beauty. Shelyn is, by definition, proof that the assertion is false. In that sense, her presence would, by default, be a Revelation throwing light onto the lie of "There is no beauty." Thus, their supposed "truth" learned in such things is given away as an illusion caused by evil and suffering - an illusion to be dispensed with, because Shelyn has displayed the Truth to them. In this Scenario she represents the ultimate Hope because, in the end there is Beauty, no matter how far away from such you are. One example of why and how this might work, is Nethys. Nethys sees everything. EVERYTHING. Think about that some more. Everything. That... that's horrifying. It's no wonder he's a nutcase. The weird part? He doesn't actually want everything to be destroyed. The fact that Nethys actively opposes the release of Rovagug is proof that he doesn't want The End to come. He has his destructive side, yes, that kind of does, but also his healing and creative side that wishes to heal, protect, and guard everything. But how? The latter wouldn't make sense if he had no compassion (thus allowing him to ignore the brutality he'd witness), or if wickedness was too overwhelming and there was nothing Worthwhile.

And that, in the end, reveals the trick. Shelyn reveals Beauty... but not the vain, shallow, empty Beauty (or at least not exclusively that kind of Beauty), but also Beauty that is, at it's core, the thing that is defined as That Which Is Worthwhile. What is Beauty? In this case, not just That Which is Pleasant (visually or otherwise, although it includes this), but also That Which is Worthwhile and That Which Inspires Beauty. This is the trick, the core, the essence of Shelyn's Beauty.

(Alternatively, she has something like the mythic abilities Divine Countenance, and Persuasive Countenance with the Beyond Morality ability to ensure that Everyone is Two Steps more Friendly towards her...)


Tacticslion wrote:

{. . .}

In that sense, an A.I. in the PF universe - one that we would recognize there, with three mental ability scores - would have the capacity by definition to expand their list of preconceived definitions. In other words, they can learn and reason. {. . .}

Even for an AI that can expand its list of preconceived definitions, what would it see of Shelyn before it had a chance to do this?

Tacticslion wrote:
Fiends, on the other hand, no matter what they are, definitely have a sense of Beauty. This is innate - either it is because they like that thing innately, or they cannot help but recognize something beyond themselves and their limits. Shelyn would likely represent something so far to the latter, that they are entirely incapable of hating it.

You might be right for Devils, Demons, Asuras, and Rakshasas, and maybe even for Demodands, Divs, and Kytons, but what about the really ultimate malignant and alien fiends, the Daemons and Qlippoths (and for that matter, Great Old Ones and the like? Whether whatever turned Doubral into Zon-Kuthon could do the same to Shelyn is an open question, but even if not (after all, she did resist corruption by Whisperer of Souls), I doubt that they would be impressed.


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For those that are 'too broken' to see beauty, I see it more as their sense of beauty being deadened. Similar to how someone who has trained extensively to not feel pain isn't immune to pain, it just takes more of it to have an effect on them.

For such people, it may take something truly powerful, in their eyes, to open them up to beauty again. What this may be is subjective to any one person. It could be a rose in a glass, or a panoramic view from a mountain top. It could be a painting, or song, or even just a drawing or jingle.

Grand Lodge

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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:

{. . .}

In that sense, an A.I. in the PF universe - one that we would recognize there, with three mental ability scores - would have the capacity by definition to expand their list of preconceived definitions. In other words, they can learn and reason. {. . .}

Even for an AI that can expand its list of preconceived definitions, what would it see of Shelyn before it had a chance to do this?

Tacticslion wrote:
Fiends, on the other hand, no matter what they are, definitely have a sense of Beauty. This is innate - either it is because they like that thing innately, or they cannot help but recognize something beyond themselves and their limits. Shelyn would likely represent something so far to the latter, that they are entirely incapable of hating it.

You might be right for Devils, Demons, Asuras, and Rakshasas, and maybe even for Demodands, Divs, and Kytons, but what about the really ultimate malignant and alien fiends, the Daemons and Qlippoths (and for that matter, Great Old Ones and the like? Whether whatever turned Doubral into Zon-Kuthon could do the same to Shelyn is an open question, but even if not (after all, she did resist corruption by Whisperer of Souls), I doubt that they would be impressed.

"Does it surprise you to know that the Qlippoths have a concept of beauty?"


^Does this mean that:
Shelyn is the Qlippoth's Predator?

Now I've got this vision of Shelyn as a Time Lord . . . .


Tels wrote:

For those that are 'too broken' to see beauty, I see it more as their sense of beauty being deadened. Similar to how someone who has trained extensively to not feel pain isn't immune to pain, it just takes more of it to have an effect on them.

For such people, it may take something truly powerful, in their eyes, to open them up to beauty again. What this may be is subjective to any one person. It could be a rose in a glass, or a panoramic view from a mountain top. It could be a painting, or song, or even just a drawing or jingle.

This is pretty much what I meant. They think they "know" there is no such thing as beauty anymore - they are simply wrong. Deadened and unfeeling, until Shelyn comes.

Tacticslion wrote:
In that sense, an A.I. in the PF universe - one that we would recognize there, with three mental ability scores - would have the capacity by definition to expand their list of preconceived definitions. In other words, they can learn and reason.
Tacticslion wrote:
Fiends, on the other hand, no matter what they are, definitely have a sense of Beauty. This is innate - either it is because they like that thing innately, or they cannot help but recognize something beyond themselves and their limits. Shelyn would likely represent something so far to the latter, that they are entirely incapable of hating it.
UnArcaneElection wrote:
Even for an AI that can expand its list of preconceived definitions, what would it see of Shelyn before it had a chance to do this?
UnArcaneElection wrote:
You might be right for Devils, Demons, Asuras, and Rakshasas, and maybe even for Demodands, Divs, and Kytons, but what about the really ultimate malignant and alien fiends, the Daemons and Qlippoths (and for that matter, Great Old Ones and the like? Whether whatever turned Doubral into Zon-Kuthon could do the same to Shelyn is an open question, but even if not (after all, she did resist corruption by Whisperer of Souls), I doubt that they would be impressed.

No, you're just not understanding what I'm saying, because you're asking the wrong question. You're asking "What do they see, relative to our understanding?" and I'm explaining, "It's irrelevant, and doesn't apply anyway."

Either they see it and it applies to their sensibilities, or it doesn't apply to their sensibilities and they're affected anyway, because Shelyn is beauty by definition.

In the case of an A.I. they are suddenly expanded to have a definition of beauty, and Shelyn is that. There is no "before and after" within the revelation process - only before the Revelation of Shelyn and during-and-after (simultaneously). Shelyn is, by default, a revelation. Suddenly, even where there was nothing before, there is something, it is immediate and thorough, and it applies without any lag in cognitive process.

In the case of other creatures, it still functions. The implications, however, are more disturbing. If you read the rest of Shelyn's (and Zon-Kuthon's) entries, you'd see that he responded to her with violence. Further, the only deity that directly opposes Shelyn is Rovagug.

The implication, however, is that her essence still functions as it was meant to... except they respond to that sort of thing directly with violence (excepting for when she took Zon-Kuthon's glaive). Even daemons do not do this.

One idea is even that Zon wasn't able to see when he first returned - his symbol is a skull with a spiked chain through the eyes, after all - and only upon the claiming of his Glaive was his sight restored, and thus enacting the tenuous peace they both now have.

Additionally, it could well be that even qlippoth would be affected and behave "properly" except for Rovagug, due to the fact that Rovagug is a figurative and literal "beast" - a creature too terrible to respond to anything with anything but violence and opposition, plus, being a god, might be uniquely immune to that sort of thing.

Ultimately, the only examples we have of "exceptions" are strictly insane (in terms of how they view everything), perverse-evil (to a profound degree beyond 'typical' evil), and gods, simultaneously. And one of those ended up in a non-violent arrangement with her anyway, and the other was sealed away in an ancient time that is seemingly before she existed.

EDIT: quote box fixed

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Shelyn and Dou-Bral must have existed during the sealing of the Rough Beast for the Star Towers to exist. :)

Then again, continuity is all over the place with that - I seem to recall early sources placing Nethys and/or Gorum there...


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Kalindlara wrote:

Shelyn and Dou-Bral must have existed during the sealing of the Rough Beast for the Star Towers to exist. :)

Then again, continuity is all over the place with that - I seem to recall early sources placing Nethys and/or Gorum there...

Dou-Bral was changed into Zon-Kuthon before the sealing of Rovagug as Zon-Kuthon holds sway over a certain Star Tower in an AP.

Curse of the Crimson Throne:
In fact, the Star Tower is the primary reason why Kazavon built Castle Scarwall in that location. It wasn't a Star Tower that Zon-Kuthon recovered after changing, it was a Star Tower that Zon-Kuthon created to help seal Rovagug away.


Yeah, okay, that's weird. Continuity snarl, or was Rovagug's seal more recent than it seems? Hm...

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Tels wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

Shelyn and Dou-Bral must have existed during the sealing of the Rough Beast for the Star Towers to exist. :)

Then again, continuity is all over the place with that - I seem to recall early sources placing Nethys and/or Gorum there...

Dou-Bral was changed into Zon-Kuthon before the sealing of Rovagug as Zon-Kuthon holds sway over a certain Star Tower in an AP.

** spoiler omitted **

I'm aware of that. :)

I'm also aware that in Mythic Realms, it's very clear about Dou-Bral creating the Star Towers through song to heal the wounded world. Only when he returned as Zon-Kuthon were they twisted into places of darkness.

Like I said... continuity contradictions. :)

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Epic derail on Dou-Bral, Shelyn, and the imprisonment of Rovagug!

Spoiler:
From the Zon-Kuthon article in Pathfinder Adventure Path #11: Skeletons of Scarwall, page 68:

Although he aided in the imprisonment of Rovagug in youth as Dou-Bral, this was his last cooperation with his peers.

From the Rovagug article in Pathfinder Adventure Path #23: The Impossible Eye, page 60:

...in the heart of Golarion Torag and Gorum forged an unbreakable prison. Asmodeus, Nethys, and Pharasma laid great spells over the creation...

From the adventure Pathfinder Adventure Path #39: City of Seven Spears, page 35:

...although in the ancient days of Azlant before Earthfall, she was represented as a beautiful Azlanti woman, not a Taldan woman, and she did not yet possess her brother’s glaive. Instead, she is represented as wielding only a harp, a paintbrush, or a chisel-like knife.

Reviewing Gods and Magic, I believe this is when the backstories of other gods were developed. Nethys and Gorum are no longer included in the sealing of Rovagug, for example.

From Mythic Realms, page 14:

...it fell to Dou-Bral to seal the wound that the Dawnf lower’s blade had rent in Golarion’s surface. Dou-Bral’s matchless voice rose,
singing back the lava that welled up from Golarion’s mortal wound. As his song reached its crescendo, it called great star-shaped structures into being. Anchored deep in the Darklands, the Star Towers held Golarion’s surface together and formed the final seal of Rovagug’s prison.

It's at least a little relevant to the Melodies of Inner Beauty, I suppose. :)


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Yeah, the Star Towers were made by Dou Bral, and they changed when he returned as Zon-Kuthon.

And they changed further when Starfall hit, and the seals started faltering.

SHelyn's utter optimism is one of the things that struck me about her - in a more extreme example, Shelyn's maintaining an entire second divine realm that's currently empty.

It's her brother's, in the expectation that one day Dou Bral will come home.


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Time to Raise Dead on this thread!

So what do you get if a completely inanimate and unaware automated device takes a picture of Shelyn, and the first time that anybody looks at the image is after she has gone somewhere else?

I'm tempted to make a Mystery Men reference, but maybe I shouldn't . . . .


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What Shelyn wants them to see =P

Which could range from anything to one of those birds she's so fond of, to a woman of the camera's maker's ethnicity, to a starry sky.


^So the picture (or something that stays in range of it) has to become magical -- otherwise you get problems when multiple people view it.


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I was thinking more that the result would probably be set at the time the photo was taken, because Shelyn's an artist, not an anarchist.


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Or, rather, the picture is irrelevant. Shelyn is divine. The image, nonmagical as it is, displays what Shelyn does. Beauty. It's left to mortal minds to comprehend it, and they do as they do, regardless of the nature of the image.


Zhangar wrote:
I was thinking more that the result would probably be set at the time the photo was taken, because Shelyn's an artist, not an anarchist.

Supposedly, she used to be an anarchist.

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