Kopru Ruins opinions?


Shackled City Adventure Path


I just ran my second session in the Kopru Ruins. Intro to the situation is below.

Question:
(1) What do the Alleybasher do? Steal and run away, because the Kopru Ruins are so dangerous? Or stay for some reason?
(2) What does Skaven do?

First session, the players killed the skulvyn, got into the main dungeon, were scared off by Triel's traps (found them, afraid to disarm) and fought a bunch of Hill Folk. (In my campaign Greyhawk flavored campaign, Hill Folk are Maroons -- escaped plantation slaves -- from the Amedio and Olman people, working for the Ebon Triad to get weapons to fight Cauldron).

The best part was when the fighter fell in the water trap, the paladin tried to pull him out with a rope, and a Maroon Bull Rushed the paladin in, so both were drowning and being zapped by Blood Bloaters.

Second session, after 2 days recovery in town, the Maroons had gotten two ballistae and alchemist fire. The PC's defeated the ballistae crews and got in. They got into Triel's room, and with an amazing success on Intimidate, got her to agree to hand over her Wands of Control Water in exchange for letting her go.

She told them (vaguely) about undead Tarkilar and wizard Skaven and his spider friends.

One of the PC's (dominated by the kopru to want to clear the dungeon) then started a fight, and the PC's defeated her with Hold Person and some crits on Sneak Attacks.

They then killed more Maroons (Hill Folk) and blasted Alleybashers lying in wait at an entrance with a Fireball and other spells and arrows.

So Triel, 8 Maroons, and 4 Alleybashers dead on this second session, PC's beat up and low on spells. They returned to town to buy and sell gear, and told the Cauldron Guard where the lava tube entrance is.

I've decide what the Maroons and Alleybashers do. The Maroons get an Alleybasher to pick the lock to the armory and steal all the weapons they were promised, and escape through the lava tubes before the Cauldron Guard shows up.

So back to the question at the top: What do Skaven and the Alleybashers do? I'm thinking in terms of running them for their own interest, not "what is a good game". To me, a good game is when the monsters are thoughtful.


I would think that Triel is the most charismatic of the three leaders and with her gone the alley bashers and hill folk would pull out. Really once their hidden lair has been found they best leg it.

Iirc the reason for stealing the wands was to ransom them back for money. Once they are found they should go and hide again. This probably means the party will fail to recover enough wands.

This is a disappointing way for the adventure to end so perhaps Tarkilar could stay in the ruins and some of the dead could be brought back to assist him? Skaven can live to fight another day.

I read a more interesting reason for the bad guys wanting the wands which was along the lines that they were using them to drain the water from the ruins to discover something within the lake. I can't recall exactly what it was down there. But if you follow that motivation they might have a reason to stay.


Very cool, Werecorpse.

My take is:
-- Hillfolk (Maroons in my campaign, being paid in weapons) steal the weapons and escape the Kopru Ruins and the city, planning a slave revolt.

-- Alleybashers see the handwriting on the wall and leave.

-- Tarkilar is too crazy to know or care, so he stays.

-- Skaven hides out with the Harpoon Spider hoping things blow over. He might even leave his wands "in plain sight" in the hopes the party takes it and goes. Yes, perhaps with a passive aggressive note saying to take them back if they want them so bad?


My information is from Dungeon #98, not the hardcover, so forgive me if some things are different. There are eight wands of control water located as follows:

Skaven: has three (one on his person, one in his bedchamber, one in the harpoon spider lair).
Bloodbath: Room K41 at the bottom of the bloodbloater swarm. It sounds like the fighter and the paladin already hazarded that room, but perhaps they didn't acquire this wand.
Gutterrut: From the adventure, "Gutterrut recently stole the eighth wand of control water from Triel, who has yet to notice the theft. Gutterrut isn't quite sure what to do with the wand, but he knows Triel wants it. Eventually, he plans to use it as a bargaining chip with the beautiful cleric to gain her as an ally."
Triel: had three on her person.

". . . the night drains a total of 80 charges from the wands (split evenly among all the wands recovered).

Even if the only ones the party recover are from Triel's body, they should be fully charged (or near enough) to be able to handle the 80 charges required to save Cauldron. So they don't really need to return.

While there's any number of ways this can go, here's my suggestion:
( 1 ) Gutterrut gives Skaven his wand in exchange for becoming Skaven's new familiar. Skaven sacrifices Pywakit to 'trade up.'
( 2 ) Gutterrut tells Skaven of the wand in the bloodbath.
( 3 ) Armed with the remaining wands (four or five), Skaven gives them to Tarkilar to hold on to.
( 4 ) Skaven orders Gutterrut to go invisible and report when the party re-enters the Kopru Ruins.
( 5 ) Skaven gets his ally, Kaurophon, to come help him. KAUROPHON NEEDS TO BE INTRODUCED SOONER THAN "TotSE" OR THEY'LL NEVER TRUST HIM!
( 6 ) When the group returns, Skaven uses some marvelous pigments to make him and Kaurophon look injured. When the group gets to them Skaven gasps, "We're too weak to defeat that undead menace (most likely true), but he has all the wands (definitely true)."

If the group tries to heal them, Skaven urges them not to wait, "Our injuries don't need your healing (also true). But he's insane, he could do anything with those wands, even destroy them (true again)."

It is important to paint Skaven, the Vecna worshipper, and Kaurophon as a party that failed (this goes in line with Vhalantru pitting groups against odds they can't handle to keep the hero population down) and its up to the group to save the day. Keep Skaven's statements truthful and sense motive checks will show that he's being honest. Skaven might send in some "charmed" spiders to help the group when it's a mop-up anyway, or to really help out if they're truly struggling.

When all is said and done, Skaven might become an npc with the occasional useful bit of information for the group (he is a diviner after all) and Kaurophon is also set up for future use. When the paladin eventually detects Skaven's evil, he can say, "Yes, it's true, I was expecting some sort of reward for returning the wands, but it never got that far, and I think I've suffered enough for my folly."

Why bother with the subterfuge?
( 1 ) A diviner isn't the most challenging of foes.
( 2 ) As a Vecna worshipper, getting in with a hero group might lead to some good secrets.


Very interesting Mykull. Before the party killed Triel, they parlayed with her, by succeeding on Intimidate with a very high roll and because it was reasonable for her to try and talk her way out, since her minions had been bested twice before, at the Lucky Monkey and in their first foray into the Kopru Ruins, and she was caught unaware they'd defeated her guards.

She told them about her ally Skaven and former ally Tarkilar as part of the parlay. I missed that Triel didn't know she was missing a wand, and had her say that one was with Tarkilar.

The only reason the parlay turned violent is because one of the PC's is Dominated by the Kopru with the mission to kill every intruder into his realm . . . the other PC's haven't noticed this one has become extra bloodthirsty, starting that unnecessary fight for instance.

Still, Skaven has no idea there even was a parlay, so could try the innocent routine.

And Gutterrut and Skaven "trading up" and cooperating, with the quasit on guard duty, makes sense to me.

From a metagaming POV, I'm quite sure the PC's would attack Skaven and any ally (such as Kaurophon), because the dominated PC wants to kill everything. Since Kaurophon is necessary to the later plot, I'm not going that direction.

I think Gutterrut and Skaven are on their own. I can see 3 logical courses of action for Skaven:
1) Attempt to parlay and get the PC's to fight Tarkilar. Maybe he can learn from them, and maybe Tarkilar will kill them and he can loot everything. Or maybe Tarkilar will weaken them and he can finish them.

2) Run away. Leave Cauldron and don't look back. Live to fight another day.

3) Hide with the Harpoon Spider.

Random determination says "run away". Hmmm.


With your further input, I would absolutely say that Skaven, teamed with Gutterrut, takes the remaining wands and high-tails it to Sasserine where he can sell them for some coin to establish himself.

He might try to take the spiders with him, at least warn them that trouble is on the way.

Basically, I would just leave Tarkilar high and dry with no more wands to be found. Skaven should take his journal so the group can only suppose that Triel's missing partner (Skaven) has absconded with them.

Still, the group has enough wands to save Cauldron.


I like that a lot, Mykull. Thanks for your help.

I will have Skaven and Gutterrut flee to Sasserine (where my notes say Skaven is from, though I'm not sure if I made up his backstory).

Skaven will bring the wands, and his collection of books and scrolls.

He'll warn the Harpoon Spider, and leave the Air Elemental and Tarkilar behind unwarned.

He'll also leave a scroll on his desk, speculating that underground rivers connect Phantom Lake to the Underdark, and that the kopru came here that way, and may have left for the Underdark when the Kopru Ruins were abandoned. Towards the end of the scroll is a Sepia Snake Sigil, in the hopes of slowing the PC's down, even if they don't read the scroll on the wall.

As a post-script it says in Draconic: "Tarkilar, I have fled into the Underdark with the wands, through the chamber of spiders. They are trained to scare but not harm, so come join me if the Cauldron men cause you too much trouble."

Skaven knows Tarkilar can't read Draconic, but he suspects the PC's will either have someone who can read it, or will find an expert in Cauldron, to lead them on a red herring to delay and kill.


Twisted!

I like it!

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