How similar to spells are scrolls?


Rules Questions


I have a couple questions about using scrolls in combat:

1) If I cast a touch spell from a scroll, can my familiar deliver it?

2) Can I activate a scroll while grappled, assuming it is in hand?
2a) If yes, do I need to make a concentration check? If so, do I use my caster level or the scroll's caster level?
2b) If yes, what happens if I fail the concentration check? Is the scroll destroyed, or can I try again?


1) I can't find the specific rule right now, but I'd say yes.
2) This is a tricky one. By RAW, all you have to do is read the spell off the scroll, so you shouldn't need to perform somatic elements of the spell-casting. However, the scrolls section only says that casting from a scroll requires no material focus or materials, so some GMs might rule that you would have to provide anything that isn't a material focus or material. The image in my head of casting from a scroll certainly had some hand-waving, but I'm not actually sure it's required. If the somatic elements ARE required, then no, you cannot activate them while grappled, as the grappled condition states that you cannot perform actions that require 2 hands (assuming one hand is holding the scroll while the other gestures).
2a) IF you can cast from a scroll while grappled, the concentration check would be 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level. All of the rules regarding scrolls and CL use the creator's CL (they're the one who cast it after all, not you; you're just 'pulling the trigger'), so I see no reason why it would be different here.
2b) The 'Activate the Spell' sections says, "Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be." The 'Determine Effect' section says, "The writing for an activated spell disappears from the scroll as the spell is cast." The Concentration section (in the glossary, not specific to scrolls) says, "If you fail the check, you lose the spell just as if you had cast it to no effect." All of these combined lead me to say that yes, the scroll is rendered useless if you fail the concentration check. As you read it, the words disappear, and if you are interrupted before you finish, you are left holding a partial scroll that doesn't do anything anymore.


1. Yes, your familiar can deliver the touch spell.

2. If it has Somatic components, no. (You'd have to hold the scroll in one hand and do the somatic components with the other, and "being grappled" occupies one of your hands.)
Note: Material components aren't a problem, because the scroll-maker took care of those.

Source: PRD (CRB) on magic items.
"This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that's left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on)."
Also, scrolls take ASF, the same as casting spells; ASF is associated with Somatic components.

2a. Assuming it's verbal only, or the Still metamagic is added: You do make a concentration check.

It's not based on caster level, however. Source: PRD (CRB) on magic.
"Casting a spell while you have the grappled or pinned condition is difficult and it requires a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting). Pinned creatures can only cast spells that do not have somatic components."
(And note that, having both hands occupied, pinned creatures can't use scrolls at all.)

2b. The scroll is burned, just as a normal cast's preparation / slot is burned. Don't be that guy.

Shadow Lodge

1. I don't believe so. See this FAQ:

FAQ wrote:

Items as Spells: Does using a potion, scroll, staff, or wand count as "casting a spell" for purposes of feats and special abilities like Augment Summoning, Spell Focus, an evoker's ability to do extra damage with evocation spells, bloodline abilities, and so on?

No. Unless they specifically state otherwise, feats and abilities that modify spells you cast only affect actual spellcasting, not using magic items that emulate spellcasting or work like spellcasting.

I believe that a familiar's ability to deliver touch spells counts as an ability that modifies a spell, so it wouldn't work with scrolls.


I stand corrected on that point, then. :)

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / How similar to spells are scrolls? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.