I jumped into the world of Inquisitor last night and had a blast. I am still fairly new to Pathfinder (and tabletop in general) but think I may have found a class/playstyle that fits me.
That being said I have started out with a Half-Orc Inquisitor (of Gorum but that is open to change). Society Play also.
My build at current looks like this:
Str: 18 (+2)
Dex: 11
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 16
Cha: 7
I am wanting to have him be primarily melee focused but will most likely stick with light armor. I know there are some extremely helpful abilities that work on Intimidate. But being new it's still a bit cryptic to me. I am curious if my Dex is way too low at current. As well as possibly getting some suggestions on possible traits. Dipping into Gendarme Cavalier for some bonuses. When it would be a good time to do this if it is a good idea.
I want to inspire fear on the battlefield. I want to crush the heretics of my given god, assist my party, and I want to be flashy while doing it.
Any information and help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!
Well, if you are dipping Cavalier, check out the order of the Cockatrice. Nets you a better version of Dazzling Display (takes only a standard vs. a full-round action) if you take two levels, in addition to the extra Gendarme bonus feats. Due to the higher hit dice, it might even be more beneficial to take the Cavalier levels first, before continuing down the Inquisitor path. As for feat choices, if you nab Power Attack as a bonus feat off Gendarme, Hurtful becomes an attractive option with Dazzling Display, as you get to debuff everything w/in 30 ft and still get an attack in as a swift action.
A different, if a bit more egoistical option, might be to just grab the Enforcer feat and the Blade of Mercy trait. (requires Sarenrae worship), and not bother about dipping two levels of Cavalier. Still lets you demoralise one target for free, and has the added benefit of letting you get in a second attack, even on a charge.
If you choose to go the Hurtful route (and if you are focusing on intimidate, I'd rather recommend doing so) I'd also consider choosing an archetype that switches out judgement, for the purposes of clearing the swift-action gate. Sanctified Slayer nets you Studied Target that is applicable as a move action (and becomes a swift later), or Sacred Huntsmaster lets you progress your mount that you got off Cavalier, and lets it share your TW feats. Do note that the Cavalier challenge does not necessarily synergize well with the mount itself, though.
I guess a sample build - if not necessarily heavily optimised by any means - of what I'm talking about would be something along the lines of;
Gendarme Cavalier 2 / Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor X
Half-Orc Cavalier 2 / Inquisitor 1, Level 3, Init +0, HP 17+1d8 + 1d10, Speed 15
AC 20, Touch 10, Flat-footed 20,
Fort +9, Ref +2, Will +7, Base Attack Bonus 2
MW Falchion +6 (2d4+9), 18-20/x2)
MW Falchion + Divine Favor + Studied Target +9/+4 (2d4+13), 18-20/x2)
Full Attack w/ Hurtful & above buffs +9/+9 (2d4+13/2d4+13, 18-20/x2 /18-20/x2)
Abilities Str 18, Dex 11, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 7
Half-Orc alternate racial traits:
Sacred Tattoo: (+1 luck bonus to all Saving Throws)
Traits:
Blade of Mercy: (No penalty for doing non-lethal with slashing weapons, +1 to damage when doing non-lethal)
Fate's Favored: (+1 to all Luck bonuses - as a Half-Orc, this effectively gives you +2 to all your ST's, as well as enhancing one of your best low-level self-buff spells, Divine Favour)
Feats:
L1: Power Attack (Gendarme) (Trade -1 to hit for +2 damage / 4 BAB, +50% damage when 2handing a weapon)
L1: Hurtful: (Attack someone you demoralised as a swift action)
L2: Dazzling Display (Order) (Demoralise everyone within 30' feet, standard action)
L3: Enforcer (Free action to demoralize when doing non-lethal, and remain shaken for x rounds (x = damage dealt) - if scoring a critical hit, frightened instead)
> Reformation Inquisition (mainly lets you use Wis > Cha on certain social skills, including Intimidate)
If you are worried about the Dex mod - keep in mind that you can pretty much just don Heavy Armor thanks to the Cavalier level, and if you ride your mount the movement penalty should hopefully not matter too much. Also, remember that your mount can move without you spending your move actions!
This character would ultimately have a resource-free "debuffing/buffing sequence" that goes like this
> Standard (Dazzling Display) - Intimidate check vs all foes, whoever fails the check become shaken
> Move (Studied Target) - Gain different bonuses vs 1 foe, including + to attack & damage rolls
> Swift (Hurtful) - Attack 1 demoralised foe within range.
Hurtful also allows you to get two attacks off a charge, should you feel the need to run something down.
With that being said, I always found the aspect of dipping as an Inquisitor potentially very frustrating in comparison with what you give up, in particular with abilities such as Bane and caster levels. A dip-free option that comes online about at the same time with no loss of caster levels, if a bit more limited, would be:
Inquisitor 3 (Sanctified Slayer)
Half-Orc Inquisitor 3, Level 3, Init +3, HP 17+2d8, Speed 20
AC 17, Touch 10, Flat-footed 17,
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +8, Base Attack Bonus 2
MW Falchion +6 (2d4+9), 18-20/x2)
MW Falchion + Divine Favor + Studied Target + Bite +9/+4 (2d4+12/1d4+5), 18-20/x2 /20/x2)
Full Attack w/ Hurtful & above buffs & Painful Smite +9/+9/+4 (2d4+15/2d4+12/1d4+5, 18-20/x2 /18-20/x2 /20x2)
Abilities Str 18, Dex 11, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 7
Traits:
Fate's Favored
Tusked / Finish the Fight / Hermean Paragon (Tusked gives a bite natural attack at a -5 in your normal attack routine, Finish the Fight gives a +1 to attack rolls vs foes you have already hit the last 24 hours, and Hermean Paragon gives +2 to initiative - I used Tusked)
Feats:
L1: w/e (retrain this at L2 to Power Attack)
L3: Hurtful
> Torture Subdomain:
- Painful Smite (Wis+3/day) - lets you convert damage done on an attack to non-lethal damage, adding your wisdom modifier to the damage done - and in addition, gives you a free intimidate check with the damage done as an additional bonus to the check.
This way you still get to do your double attack when you feel it is needed - though with a finite resource. You could still just grab Cornugon Smash as your L7 feat though, and intimidate for free all day long afterwards (and it is not as if you aren't a scary mofo before that..) This way you get the Inquisitor goodies a lot quicker, your saving throws will progress quicker, but it is also simpler in regards of character creation. Might be a bit difficult to find a god with the torture subdomain though, I have no idea who it belongs to.
This is already painfully long. err. Hope I helped somewhat!
|
1. Don't stick with light armor. Your AC will suffer too much with your dex that low. Make sure to wield a shield - doing damage isn't your main job.
2. Consider taking both the Blade of Mercy trait & the Enforcer feat and wielding a scimitar. It makes it so that you get an intimidate check every time you hit someone who can take nonlethal damage - they're shaken for a # of rounds equal to the damage (nearly always the whole fight) - and on a crit they're frightened (hence scimitar).
3. Take Antagonize.
If you want to stick to melee and wear light armor, your DEX doesn't cut it.
First thing I'd recommend, with that Dex, is to get Heavy Armor Proficiency. For ease of reference: Dex 10 = heavy armor area, Dex 14 = medium armor area, Dex 16+ = light armor area.
So if you are not playing to go for Heavy Armor Proficiency, see about at least boost Dex to 13 with your +2 and get that medium armor.
Not to mention Gorum would spit on your light armor, wear plate like a true warrior!
An alternative would be sticking with Medium Armor and taking a shield... lowers your damage output but makes up for your low, low, AC.
On another topic, I don't like dipping as an Inquisitor since the spell list is rather weak as it is.
I like the idea of going Sanctified Slayer, mostly because Studied Target increases the DC of your spells against a single target, which should make you quite good at landing Cause Fear and similar targeted disables. If you use Heavy Armor, you don't get access to the Ranger Combat Style talents, but that's not that much of a problem, since you get too few Slayer Talents to start with... you are better off using those to get Intimidating Prowess (through Strong Impression), Weapon Focus, a bonus combat feat, etc.
I have to recommend the Heresy/Conversion/Reformation inquisition so you get Wisdom-to-Intimidate rather than CHA, which is terrible for you. Flavor it as you will -- they all work well enough, though I guess Conversion is the one that looks best.
Rather than the Blade of Mercy combo, I recommend going with Power Attack and Cornugon Smash to honor your deity.
The Shaman's Apprentice alternate racial for Half-Orcs allows you easy access later in the game to Diehard, which might be thematic.
|
|
Rather than the Blade of Mercy combo, I recommend going with Power Attack and Cornugon Smash to honor your deity.
That's a good combo too - and the advantage it works on slightly more creatures. (only slightly as there aren't many things immune to nonlethal who aren't immune to morale effects) It also doesn't cost a trait for someone who is taking PA anyway.
However - it has some issues with this build.
1. As a mid BAB character - PA will make him miss often.
2. He can't take the combo until level 7 due to the skill requirement.
3. It won't last as long as Enforcer, and it won't occasionally frighten.
1. As a mid BAB character - PA will make him miss often.
Calling Inquisitor a mid-BAB class is like calling a Summoner a 6-level caster.
You have access to a huge accuracy boost through Judgement (or in this case, Studied Target), which puts them on-par with full-BAB classes... he has spells to boost it further up... access to Outflank with solo-tactics for easy hitting... not to mention Furious Focus being a thing, particularly for a class that doesn't care so much about iteratives.
I'll give you the rest of your points though, it's a trade though.
Awesome insight everyone. I am seeing a lot of talk of Sanctified Slayer and I am thinking of going this route. I really don't want to lose my spells later on and would feel that the bonus as SS is on par with Judgements. I am curious though with the SS seemingly being more geared towards a stealthy character if it would be a hindrance to a high strength build.
I guess the other main problem I am having is order of feats taken. I am liking the idea of Power Attack > Cornugon Smash. But I would also like to take Heavy Armor Prof.
I am assuming that getting my AC up at level one will be more important than taking Power Attack right away.
Thanks again to everyone for responding and I am going to continue fiddling with this character. Any more suggestions would be absolutely amazing.
|
|
Yes - if you're going that route take Heavy Armor before PA. PA isn't all that great for an Inquisitor - and you can't take Cornugon Smash until level 7 anyway. (One reason I suggested the Enforcer combo - you can pick that up at level 1.)
At level 1 you'll want to get Four Mirror Armor (the best you can afford) - but you'll want to get Fullplate ASAP. You should be able to afford it by level 2 or 3. (So if you don't take Heavy Armor Proficiency until 3 - it isn't a big deal.)
Also - I might suggest dropping Wisdom to 15 to get your dex to 12 & Int to 10. As an inquisitor your DCs aren't that important - and frankly - you won't have much trouble intimidating things.
Finally - (I can't believe I forgot to mention before) - you'll want to be using the spell Blistering Invective. It removes the need to take Dazzling Display as it's a level 2 spell which basically gives you Dazzling Display as a standard action... and if they're intimidated - they catch on fire! (You wouldn't use Dazzling Display more than once a fight anyway. Don't waste the feat.)
Awesome insight everyone. I am seeing a lot of talk of Sanctified Slayer and I am thinking of going this route. I really don't want to lose my spells later on and would feel that the bonus as SS is on par with Judgements. I am curious though with the SS seemingly being more geared towards a stealthy character if it would be a hindrance to a high strength build.
I am assuming that getting my AC up at level one will be more important than taking Power Attack right away. .
You don't qualify for Power Attack at level 1. It requires BAB +1.
And SS is not geared for Dex or Stealthy characters. I'm running a STR SS and it works well. I like it better than the limited use judgement.
What domain or inquisition did you take? That makes a big difference.
Conversion Inquisition.
Awesome insight everyone. I am seeing a lot of talk of Sanctified Slayer and I am thinking of going this route. I really don't want to lose my spells later on and would feel that the bonus as SS is on par with Judgements. I am curious though with the SS seemingly being more geared towards a stealthy character if it would be a hindrance to a high strength build.
I am assuming that getting my AC up at level one will be more important than taking Power Attack right away. .
You don't qualify for Power Attack at level 1. It requires BAB +1.
And SS is not geared for Dex or Stealthy characters. I'm running a STR SS and it works well. I like it better than the limited use judgement.
The Heavy Armor is something I was curious about. How does Stalwart interact with Heavy Armor? Is it completely negated?
Well, my only other recommendation here is Intimidating Bane for a feat and possibly Killing Flourish.
Spell Focus (Necromancy) to boost the DC of your fear spells should come in handy.
Power Attack -> Cornugon Smash -> Hurtful! Deal damage, Intimidate and hen deal more damage every round! It's a nice boost to mobility for melee combatants.
(Add Intimidating Prowess if ou really want to never fail an Intimidate check).
Hurtful is really, really good, though Inquisitors - and particularly Sanctified Slayers - get kind of hurdled on the swift actions.
If you're willing to dip a level, why not a level of Barbarian (Urban? Armored Hulk?) and some Extra Rage? The +4STR is hard to beat as a combat buff, and once you can start playing with a Furious Courageous weapon and Greater Magic Weapon it gets monstrously powerful. Losing one level of Inquisitor is annoying (and you'll probably want the Magical Knack trait), but for sheer melee power it's a very good trade-off.
Hurtful is really, really good, though Inquisitors - and particularly Sanctified Slayers - get kind of hurdled on the swift actions.
If you're willing to dip a level, why not a level of Barbarian (Urban? Armored Hulk?) and some Extra Rage? The +4STR is hard to beat as a combat buff, and once you can start playing with a Furious Courageous weapon and Greater Magic Weapon it gets monstrously powerful. Losing one level of Inquisitor is annoying (and you'll probably want the Magical Knack trait), but for sheer melee power it's a very good trade-off.
Regarding this losing a level on Inquisitor. Being very new I am completely in the dark why it would be so detrimental to lose a level or two on Inquisitor? I am assuming it would have to do with Spells per day and caster level. But why does it hurt an Inquisitor so much more than other classes?
You lose:
- Spell progression
- Judgement progression
- Bane progression
- Stern Gaze/Track/etc. etc. etc. progression
You lose progression on everything if you take another class level. You don't get another round of Bane etc.
Plus, while Raging, you cannot cast and you cannot make INT checks, so there goes your knowledge utility and your combat casting.
Plus, while Raging, you cannot cast and you cannot make INT checks, so there goes your knowledge utility and your combat casting.
Fair points in general, though I'm not sure how many Inquisitors are using knowledge utility and spellcasting while standing on the front lines. Rage goes on only when the obvious action is to utterly murder something standing in front of you. By the time you can use Greater Magic Weapon to make a Furious, Courageous two-hander into a +4 weapon that makes your rage add +6STR, the trade-offs may well be worth it...
Regarding this losing a level on Inquisitor. Being very new I am completely in the dark why it would be so detrimental to lose a level or two on Inquisitor? I am assuming it would have to do with Spells per day and caster level. But why does it hurt an Inquisitor so much more than other classes?
Having everything that your main class does delayed by a level is a pretty significant penalty. Look at it in terms of what your character looks like on a specific level rather than in general to get an idea of how it goes. Everything from your Judgements to your Spells suffers. If you're going to take a level of something else there should be a really good reason. Gaining the ability to rage improves your melee significantly more than that one lost level of Inquisitor (except maybe for level 5 when you don't have Bane yet), but it's not without it's costs.
Having everything that your main class does delayed by a level is a pretty significant penalty. Look at it in terms of what your character looks like on a specific level rather than in general to get an idea of how it goes. Everything from your Judgements to your Spells suffers. If you're going to take a level of something else there should be a really good reason. Gaining the ability to rage improves your melee significantly more than that one lost level of Inquisitor (except maybe for level 5 when you don't have Bane yet), but it's not without it's costs.
Losing my Judgements really isn't a big problem because I am honestly think of doing what a lot of people have suggested and going with Sanctified Slayer.
So far I have narrowed it down to Sanc Slayer with a possible dip into Barbarian. I am not too worried about my caster levels as of now because I am planning on being a skirmisher and dealing a lot of damage while using my Intimidate stat to assist myself and (to a slightly lesser extent) my party members.
If I was going to dip Barb would you suggest it be at level 1 or would it be valuable to delay it? What would a starting build framework be that I could extrapolate on?
And lastly to break away from the mold...is there a way to play an intimidation role as a ranged Inquisitor?
I am sorry for all the newbie questions. Really daunting when starting and trying your hand at customizing your character to what you want to do.
If I was going to dip Barb would you suggest it be at level 1 or would it be valuable to delay it? What would a starting build framework be that I could extrapolate on?
Well first level Barbarian is the ideal since you get a full 12HP to start and you can take 1BAB feats if that ends up mattering. The big question if you go Barbarian 1 is whether you're going to go Urban Barbarian, which is kind of 'Barbarian light' because you're just getting the bonus strength and you suffer no AC penalty, or a 'proper Barbarian' where you're taking the AC penalty but using all the extra HP and taking the Raging Vitality feat (requires 15CON) so that you aren't at risk of instant death because you got knocked out. If I was going to go intimidating Barbarian 1/ Sanctified Slayer it would probably be something like:
Dual Talent Human: 16/18, 12, 14/16, 8, 14, 10
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack
1(Armored Hulk Barbarian - gains Heavy Armor). Raging Vitality
3. Extra Rage
5. Power Attack
7. Cornugon Smash
9. Intimidating Prowess
But there are lots of ways to go about it.
Take Rager of the Society or whatever that trait is called instead of Fate's Favored (which is a broken trait, honestly) so you get a few more rage rounds...
if your adventuring days are short, then the Barb dip is worth it... if they are realistically long, then I'm thinking 10 rage rounds may not be worth the dip.
You might as well get the Anger Inquisition or the Rage Subdomain if you want to rage so hard, but you lose Wis-to-intimidate.
Berserker of the Society is useful, though it's Extra Rage for 6 more rounds per feat that really improves resources. Anger Inquisition and Rage Subdomain are handy for having more rounds, though they only give around 1round/level where just taking the first level of Barbarian grants a half dozen. Anyhow since the Inquisitor isn't short on other combat assets, a moderate number of rounds of rage switched on when really needed might work out fairly well.
I don't see the Barbarian dip as worth it.
Well for low levels, Barbarian 1 and one Extra Rage isn't all that different from just having a Barbarian; rage is rage, and rounds/day is rather front-loaded to start. Later, by the time you can bring together Greater Magic Weapon, Heroism, and a Furious Courageous two-hander, switching on Rage means your weapon enhancement bumps up to +4 and gives all morale bonuses a +2, for a total of +7ab, +7/8damage, +2saves, and +4hp/level. So it's not without it's charm, at least.
Would rather just not tank CHA, take Rage Subdomain/Anger Inquisition.
Would rather just not tank CHA, take Rage Subdomain/Anger Inquisition.
Yeah those can work nicely instead, though either way you'll want at least one Extra Rage since they have dismal round/day progression. Charisma is actually kind of a non-issue since you'll need Intimidating Prowess if you're serious about intimidation and don't have wisdom-to-intimidate, and then with Intimidating Prowess you're pretty set whether you dropped charisma or not.
The main asset with a level of Barbarian is that you get an instant half-dozen or more rage rounds, some proficiencies (including Heavy Armor if you want to go that way), and you're free to take a different Inquisition.
I have a Southeast Asian Pharasma Cultist themed Witch-Hunter Inquisitor using Urban Barbarian 2 to pick up Controlled Rage and Greater Brawler while using the Repose:Ancestors Subdomain. It's annoying to have the Inquisitor stuff delayed so much, but the overall combo using Divine Favor, Judgements, Bane and the Gentle Rest power with Rage while wielding a 9-ring and heavy shield and making bonus Dragon Style unarmed strikes I call 'shield punches' is pretty great.
Would rather just not tank CHA, take Rage Subdomain/Anger Inquisition.Yeah those can work nicely instead, though either way you'll want at least one Extra Rage since they have dismal round/day progression. Charisma is actually kind of a non-issue since you'll need Intimidating Prowess if you're serious about intimidation and don't have wisdom-to-intimidate, and then with Intimidating Prowess you're pretty set whether you dropped charisma or not.
The main asset with a level of Barbarian is that you get an instant half-dozen or more rage rounds, some proficiencies (including Heavy Armor if you want to go that way), and you're free to take a different Inquisition.
I have a Southeast Asian Pharasma Cultist themed Witch-Hunter Inquisitor using Urban Barbarian 2 to pick up Controlled Rage and Greater Brawler while using the Repose:Ancestors Subdomain. It's annoying to have the Inquisitor stuff delayed so much, but the overall combo using Divine Favor, Judgements, Bane and the Gentle Rest power with Rage while wielding a 9-ring and heavy shield and making bonus Dragon Style unarmed strikes I call 'shield punches' is pretty great.
The real question comes into play when I have a Skald in the group for half our sessions. He will allow me to Rage-light for quite awhile. I do enjoy the theme and flavor of Armored Hulk 1, Sanc Slayer X. I am thinking I will do this and just play it because it sounds fun.
I decide against tanking my Charisma and will just use intimidating prowess. This frees me up to check out Domains/Inquisitions when I hit 3rd Level.
My build currently stands like this at level 1:
Half-Orc Armored Hulk Barbarian 1 (will eventually be AH Barb 1/Sanc Slayer X)
Str: 18 (+2)
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 10
17 AC | 2/0/2 Saves
Sitting at Intimidate 10 and Perception 6.
Traits: Unnatural Presence / Magical Knack
Feat: Intimidating Prowess
I feel like this is alright but some info would be greatly appreciated!
The two major problems I am having are the want to use Blistering Invective but lacking multiple languages to do so. Is there a way to pick up more without an Int increase?
And secondly, how does the Armored Hulk Barb bonuses work if you only take 1 level of Barb. Do you still gain Armored Swiftness if you only take one level?