Roleplaying a Memorable Paladin, Not as a Restrictive / Troublesome Class but as a Great PC?


Advice

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Silver Crusade

Asha Ghadvhi wrote:

Hi! I'm Asha! Monk 4/paladin of Shelyn 7 (hit 8 midway through the adventure) built for and played through a PbP version of The Ruby Phoenix Tournament.

First of all, I need to admit that I both lectured the PCs once and blackmailed them into doing the right thing once during the course of the adventure. (The Eternal Rose and I are both pretty firmly against cutting the throats of unconscious opponents, especially when there are non-murder options available.) That said, while "I'm a paladin" and "I'm a monk" are both large and visible parts of who I am, that's not really where I stop as a character. I'm a dancer, in point of fact, and that's probably more central to my identity than either of the other two. (Also note: while I may have danced on a pole once or twice in my life, "pole dancer" and "polearm dancer" do mean different things.)

I like helping people. I like people in general, in fact - I like finding the parts of them that make them beautiful, and sometimes helping them find those parts too. I like it when they surprise me and challenge my own assumptions. The soul of every being appreciates beauty, although many have been twisted too far up into themselves to really make contact with that part of themselves. But a skilled gardener can, with patience and time, straighten out the branches of a gnarled rosebush so that the blooms can blossom.

People are no different.

There is nothing in all creation more beautiful than the moment when someone's soul blossoms that way.

Wow, you're really smart! All that gardener stuff makes a lot of sense, I'll try to remember it the next time I'm trying to tell people about Shelyn. :) Some people think weeds are bad, but the weeds are just trying to get by, too! And some weeds are really pretty, like dandelions! Uh, I'm not really sure what dandelions would be like as people, though. Am I doing this right? Maybe I should just stick to dancing--have you seen Sarenrae's dervishes? I learned to use a scimitar like they do, and I'm preeeeetty sure they've got a little bit of Shelyn worship potential. :)


Mephron wrote:
If you want to play a paladin, absolutely required reading is Elizabeth Moon's The Deed of Paksenarrion. (which also brings the female part in.)

I'm still astonished she didn't get sued.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Do not Paladin interpretations, heavily influence how one effectively roleplays a Paladin?

Go ahead and discuss the CG/NG paladins you've played if you like. :)

Grand Lodge

I did play a Paladin of Freedom in 3.5, and had a lot of fun.

Dark Archive

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Hmm, I will argue that this is the paladin as the rules allow, which is lawful good, and having it work without being restrictive or troublesome. Also with some discussion of a paladin's fall into an antipaladin if the roleplay leads to it, as a paladin's fall could be a potential moment of memorable roleplaying.

I don't really feel that this is the right thread for discussing paladins of alternate alignments or arguing against them have a set alignement... but playing a lawful good paladin. Would it be too much to ask for discussion of alternate alignment paladins or that of them not being lawful good be discussed elsewhere in another thread?

A request from the OP.


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I second Jonathon's request.

Grand Lodge

Lawful Good itself, is not really the problem.

Misunderstanding the Code of Conduct, is a problem. This is exacerbated by a misunderstanding of alignment in general.

This is why I like the Redeemer, and Iroran Paladin.

It forces many to rethink the Paladin Code.

I find many don't even remember the Code, and even if they do, they have their own interpretation, that, even if proven wrong, are unwilling to change.

So, Paladins work best, when everyone is on board, with a similar interpretation, of both the Code, and alignment.

By the way, seeing as alignment(and the Code) plays a big part of the class, it's hard to avoid the subject.


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blackbloodtroll wrote:
By the way, seeing as alignment(and the Code) plays a big part of the class, it's hard to avoid the subject.

And yet we went three pages without it until one guy brought it up as a non sequitur "Anyone remember...". Even then, it didn't start an argument until you and Krunchyfrogg initiated a back-and-forth.

We don't have to debate this. This is a discussion on well-played paladins. Debates don't to be here. Can we for once have a non-contentious paladin thread?

Grand Lodge

An understanding, of alignment, and the Code, creates well played Paladins.

I am not debating anything, and have dropped the discussion on alternate alignment Paladins.

Is there nothing I discuss, that you will not see as combative?

Again, why is it all about you?

Dark Archive

@Blackbloodtroll
If you have ideas for talking about the paladins lawful good alignment and their code, I am fine with hearing them. This is a thread for offering advice, stories, and suggestions for playing a memorable paladin. If you can offer such, do so.

Grand Lodge

As I said, understanding Alignment, the Paladin Code, and having a generally consistent interpretation of both amongst the group, is key to having a successful Paladin PC.

I feel that is sound advice.

I am not sure how this is irrelevant, or combative.

Dark Archive

Okay then, leave that advice as is.

Grand Lodge

Okay.

What is the limits of what can be discussed, and what type of advice can be given?

Dark Archive

Well consider what was given in the first two pages of this thread.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Okay.

What is the limits of what can be discussed, and what type of advice can be given?

A memorable paladin played well within the alignment and the code of conduct....is how I am understanding the point of this thread/discussion......


Let's be real here, BBT. Asking you to refrain from posting arguments is a pretty clear-cut request. What you've said here is fine. Posting complaints about alignment requirements is off-topic, so we'd appreciate moving away from that subject.

Grand Lodge

Alignment, the Paladin Code, and how they effect the roleplay of a Paladin PC, seems so obviously relevant, that I am flabbergasted that such a thing would be rebuked, in a discussion of roleplaying a Paladin.

I also don't understand the accusation of creating an argument.

Noting "this is important", or "I advise a discussion of this" are not combative.

As it stands, the only thing I have argued against, is that I am attempting to argue something.

I feel as though I attempted to discuss a relevant part of the topic, and perhaps it was read wrong, and now it has become a race to create a reason to prove a combative, and argumentative approach, in a possible effort to express the opinion that "you are not welcome here".

Grand Lodge

@Kobold Cleaver:

You have mocked my sincerity, purposefully misinterpreted my comments, questioned my intentions, and degraded to personal attacks.

I have attempted to move on, to discuss the topic at hand, and have been met with unfounded contempt, and opposition.

Perhaps it is you, who should step back.

Grand Lodge

Another thing, is how different groups, have viewed alignment, the Paladin Code, and it's effect on roleplay.

A group that handle the two, may be found distasteful to the player of a Paladin PC, and effect their roleplay.

This is especially relevant, in games that have frequent changing groups, like PFS.

I, personally, have nothing against the LG alignment, or even the Paladin Code.

My statements, were a discussion based on how these different interpretations, can make it difficult, and had hoped there was more options, to fit different groups.

Also, what different DMs will allow, as the possibility of different alignment Paladins, will have an effect on how players will roleplay Paladin PCs.

I have been waiting to have the right chance to play a LG and/or Paladin PC, and am quite curious about many of these experiences, and thoughts on the matter.

As the only Paladin I played, was in fact a 3.5 Paladin of Freedom, I tried to call upon certain aspects of my own experiences, to contribute to the topic.

I am now a bit shocked, that my attempts to share, provide advice, receive advice, and learn, were somehow met with hostility, even though I believed I kept within the outlines, explicitly noted on this topic.

Dark Archive

Sighs, enough of this!

Blackbloodtroll could you please offer your experience as a Paladin of Freedom? I don't want any more arguments from anyone, as I feel all this is derailing the thread.


BBT.

Please tell us about the paladin you want to play.

I also like the redeemer archetype.

What social, historical and personality lens are you viewing her through?

Grand Lodge

I love the idea of the fiercely devout, but still humble, redeemed monster.

A terrifying beast, who literally weeps in battle, for those who may have been redeemed, but the greater good demanded he slay them.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

@Kobold Cleaver:

You have mocked my sincerity, purposefully misinterpreted my comments, questioned my intentions, and degraded to personal attacks.

Well, okay. I'm completely taken aback by this, but if that's how I've come across, I apologize. Just doing my part to keep a thread on-topic, but I'll let other people tackle this.

Grand Lodge

I also love the idea of handsome/beautiful nude Paladin, who seeks to protect the beauty in the world, and fights, not for the violence, but the beauty of martial prowess.

Grand Lodge

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

@Kobold Cleaver:

You have mocked my sincerity, purposefully misinterpreted my comments, questioned my intentions, and degraded to personal attacks.

Well, okay. I'm completely taken aback by this, but if that's how I've come across, I apologize. Just doing my part to keep a thread on-topic, but I'll let other people tackle this.

Well, it seems we both got heated in our misunderstandings.

Seems all good now, yes?

Dark Archive

blackbloodtroll wrote:

I love the idea of the fiercely devout, but still humble, redeemed monster.

A terrifying beast, who literally weeps in battle, for those who may have been redeemed, but the greater good demanded he slay them.

In personal games I DM, the Redeemer archetype would be opened up to other usually evil or violent races, monstrous or otherwise. Whether it be a goblin or a drow, as I feel the fluff could be fluid enough to justify such. Any character from a monstrous or normally evil race could taken up the path of good by becoming a paladin could also believe in redeeming others of their kin.

Grand Lodge

JonathonWilder wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

I love the idea of the fiercely devout, but still humble, redeemed monster.

A terrifying beast, who literally weeps in battle, for those who may have been redeemed, but the greater good demanded he slay them.

In personal games I DM, the Redeemer archetype would be opened up to other usually evil or violent races, monstrous or otherwise. Whether it be a goblin or a drow, as I feel the fluff could be fluid enough to justify such. Any character from a monstrous or normally evil race could taken up the path of good by becoming a paladin could also believe in redeeming others of their kin.

A Redeemer Hobgoblin Paladin sounds pretty cool.


I just found this thread. Wow that was a good opening post. I wish I had a good paladin story to add, but for now I'm dotting this tread so I can read the rest of it later.

Grand Lodge

Well, the "Redeemed Monster" idea, need not actually be a Redeemer Paladin, unless that's the only way to make it work.

I am actually considering making a thread, for that particular build.

Shadow Lodge

I am converted. Praise the lord! HAleluya brothers! Paladins are cool!


Black blood.

Both of your ideas share common themes, the idea of good, law, beauty and ugliness.

I think if you really explore those themes you just might get a full fledged character developed out of it!

Grand Lodge

I am still worried about PFS though.

As I mentioned, there are issues with table variation.


The Adventures of Odorian Lightbringer:

WARNING WALL OF TEXT

I'm going to take this opportunity to regale you all with tales of my first and most favorite paladin. Odorian Lightbringer has gone through numerous incarnations (AD&D 1E, 2E, 3.5, and even PF). He is currently an semi-retired NPC in my homebrew world (which my friends and I played in since I was 12).

Some of the most memorable moments in his career were during a very long and extended campaign, which is the basis of one of my current novels I'm writing. Essentially, the plot was that the races of the underdark (drow, duergar, derro) had teamed up with two other powerful forces-an evil ruler of an enemy nation named the Black Lord (who would turn out to be my long lost older brother) and a faction of Neogi who all combined to take over the world. (As neogis, umberhulks, and a few other races are nonOGL from WotC, I've had to change them in my novel, but I digress)

At the commencement of the campaign (2E), I was an 18th level paladin, joined by my adventuring companions - a 17th level human wu jen mage who could create and throw bombs; an elf ranger 12/cleric 13, and a 11th level kender thief (who rounded out our party quite nicely).

Anyways, on to the tale.

We had gone through numerous battles and intrigue uncovering the plot, lots of bleeding on our part, freeing slaves from the neogi slave masters, taking down their spelljammer ships, etc. In one section of the campaign, I had been promised that I would become a conduit for the power of my god in a time of great need. Well that time came after we infiltrated one of the enemy's strongholds. It turned out to be a keep that had been blessed by evil deities who were patrons of the bad guys. In the keep was a small army duergar, derro, and drow, led by powerful priestesses/priests and warriors.

Due to the immense evil power radiating in this place, it was uncomfortable for us to even just be in there, especially me and my fellow elf ranger/cleric.

At one point, we had battled our way up to the sanctuary/temple of the complex, where the BBEGs of this leg of the adventure was located, a drow high priestess, duergar high priest, and derro high savant and their guards (each were 20th level clerics with five 15th level guards each).

By this time, we were Pal 22, Rgr 15/Clr 17, Mage 21, and Thief 17. We were not at full health, due to the slog through the various levels, and were low on healing. Leading the way into the sanctuary, I stepped into the room. Upon taking 1 step, a jolt shot through me, dealing painful physical damage to me. The sanctuary had been empowered by the enemy's god's to the point, that anyone who worshipped a good deity would take damage, and as we soon found out, bestowed a -4 level penalty to all level our class level while within the room, which was why the BBEGs had made their stand in the room. We had tried numerous spells to counter act the effect, but to no avail, but we knew we had to get in there and stop these guys.

So, we were at an impasse. I had tried everything within MY power, and the power of of my companions, but to no avail. So, I did what every paladin should do when he's in this sort of situation.

I prayed.

I asked my god (who, BTW, was the god of Light) to grant me the power to overcome the power of my enemies and their gods. I then made an oath to forever serve him, and stand as a bastion against the darkness. Then, I faithfully stepped back into the room. As I did, I suddenly began to glow and felt a surge of overwhelming power flow through me. When my foot hit the floor, the square (5 ft. x 5 ft.) began to glow. The square had been blessed directly by the power of my god. I took no damage, and I was actually boosted in my equivalent paladin level (+2). I took another step forward into the next 5 ft square, and it became blessed. As I continued, I created a path of blessed squares, allowing my companions to enter the room without ill effect, and they no longer took the -4 level penalty either. I was able to create a safe zone with every step I took for myself and my companions allowing us to take the BBEGs to task. the battle was fierce, but we were victorious.

I later found out in later communion with my god, that what had happened, was that my god had accepted my oath and had chosen me as his right hand.

Later in the campaign, I was able to be used as a conduit again, allowing my companions, if they cast the same spell, to channel it through me, resulting in the spell having a caster level equal to our combined caster levels. Yes, it was a very high level campaign and sounds crazy, but, we needed to be able to do a very high level dispel magic later on to access a long sunken vault we found that had a magical barrier around it that we couldn't break. It required a 50th level dispel magic to do so. When we finally did it, we found the vault held a number of ancient holy artifacts that some evil guys must have hidden away so they wouldn't fall into the wrong hands (a.k.a. us).

When all was said and done, the wu jen mage walked away with a holy +5 scourge with a high chance of succeeding on critical hits, and +10 holy bracers. The Rgr/Clr got an awesome +6 sword and +6 longbow that had been used a few millennia ago during the kinslayer wars (drow vs surface elves), and a rod of resurrection. The kender thief acquired a nice +5 holy shortsword or something and some other things, and I ended up with a +7 holy avenger vorpal longsword and suit of adamantine full plate. The sword ended up being the sword of an ancient paladin king who had founded the nation that all our character's hailed from. It had a few other powers (like being able to use the shatter spell with the flat of the sword's blade, grow into a greatsword for two handed use, and some other things I can't remember. But the cool thing was that the blade was the abode of a powerful LG spirit of a female Paladin who had been "magic jarred" into the sword by the evil guys who locked the items away centuries ago. She served as a great advisor as we continued on the campaign. The armor turned out to be akin to the Valheru Armor from Raymond E. Feists Rift War Saga. I gained an adamantine dragon mount sometime later (who came looking for me) and gained new powers to help out with the campaign.

Later in the campaign, we found a way to release the female spirit and restore her to her body (via resurrection). She just happened to be the daughter of the original owner of the sword (so she was a paladin princess) and would eventually become my character's wife. Together they would found a city of their own.

Fun times in 2E! We had to come up with some many of our own adaptations to rules. Was great forum to exercise out creativity.

Grand Lodge

Actually, I am already putting together a Nagaji Divine Hunter Paladin, for a "Redeemed Monster" build.

Shadow Lodge

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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
The paladin is my favorite class I've never played.

I know that feel.

My current character was intentionally written as a barbarian with a paladin style code - I wrote it out in full and it's a page and a half long (I retrained to bloodrager after ACG came out so now it's even a legal alignment).

My last character with that GM was a LG inquisitor who I originally wrote as a paladin. He had been sidelined after a disastrous first mission had left him with a number of issues including serious survivor's guilt and fear of the dark. After years working as a clerk within his order had been called back to active duty. I turned him into an inquisitor partly because I ran out of skill points and partly because I realized that while the character had the religious faith of the paladin, he didn't have the self-confidence to inspire others - he no longer thought of himself as a radiant champion. His character arc was partly about reclaiming that feeling, and he'd just had a breakthrough when the campaign stopped thanks to life getting in the way.

Despite being mechanically an inquisitor (and calling himself a "knight") I tried to play him as I would a paladin of the chivalric tradition. He always tried to do the right thing the right way, kept his promises, showed respect to everyone (especially ladies), and filed all the correct paperwork. Actually, he often invented the correct paperwork, such as the "notice of resurrection." This was after divine intervention brought him back to life when, at level 2, he died getting between a vengeful NPC and an orcish infant. That didn't help his survivor's guilt any - why did he deserve a second chance?

One of these days I will play an actual paladin.


Currently I am playing a Kasatha Paladin.
I am have a load of fun and anytime I go all Paladin(Being vocal about doing the right thing.) on something, the party assumes I am just being an alien about things (All of them are either neutral or chaotic)

Silver Crusade

I enjoy playing paladins. Maybe its because I have such an interest in the philosophical principles of justice.

Anyway, I thought I'd share the story of Xan, The Mountain Dragon.

Xan was my first PFS character. I started playing in PFS during season 5, the Year of the Demon, and one of my first scenarios (played with a pre-gen) was Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment. That gave me the inspiration to play a demon-hunter of some kind, and I settled on a Paladin follower of Irori, building towards the Champion of Irori prestige class (which I think is cool). So he also had Cleric and Monk levels.

Xan quested against evil, following the teachings of Irori and the aims of the Silver Crusade. He never preached, but strived to set a good example for the pathfinders to follow. He would try to use non-violent methods to succeed in his goals wherever possible.

In an epic battle in a sky fortress Xan eventually fell to a Schir Demon's axe: downed by a crit, then killed outright by a follow-up gore attack. (To be absolutely fair to the GM there were no other adjacent targets, and what else is s a demon supposed to do?) It was a fitting end for a Paladin demon-hunter, given that the party was victorious overall.

BUT: Xan was restored to life to fight again!

Further adventures followed. Xan's last quest took him to Nidal.

cairn of shadows spoiler:
I thought this might prove difficult because in Nidal the lawful authorities are Kuthites, however our quest involved aiding Desnan political dissidents. This could have been a conflict that a paladin could not resolve, but ultimately the knowledge that the dissidents would be tortured and killed by evil Kuthites was more than sufficient to persuade Xan to help them. I have never thought that a paladin should be above subterfuge if he is doing good an avoiding unnecessary harm by choosing a non-violent option, and that is how I played Xan. So when we determined that our Desnan contact was in the custody of a mercenary bounty hunter, Xan seduced the bounty hunter rather than have the party begin a lethal battle with her and the Kuthite authorities. By taking the bounty hunter to bed and "occupying" her whilst my comrades freed the prisoner Xan saved many lives.

This was Xan's last quest because later on he fell to his doom, which was somewhat ignominious given the number of ways to avoid such a fate, but the dice were most unkind.

Silver Crusade

I've always thought one of the principle flaws that results in paladins getting a bad wrap is people look at people with a code or a restrictive code of ethics and view it as 'harshing their vibe.'

People don't like it when someone's around as a paragon and by his living emphasizes their own moral shortcomings. This goes for DMs too.

That being said, I've been blessed as a DM, to get some fun paladins in my parties, and even some good LG folk.

One game had a Paladin named Lukri, she came from a barbarian style society and in addition to worshipping the god of honorable combat she also had a primitive god of a cave lined with crystals living in her head. She was kind, direct and resolute, always the first at the front of the line and always the last to leave. She didn't need to tithe but still gave away her excess to the poor and fought evil with a zeal bordering on kittenlike glee.

At one point, Lukri found herself facing down an entity of eldritch evil, and strode forward unsheathing her greatsword Demonbreaker and rebuking the entity for being just as petty, useless and banal as the lowest lemure.

A current game has Vitor, a disillusioned prince who turned to the forces of light when they called to him. Despite his low wisdom, he's patient, intelligent and tactical, at home as much in the political arena as the battlefield. He tempers the righteous anger of others with the restrictions of true justice, but also is one of the first to strike down evil when it arises. He's not preachy, but the party knows when Vitor tells them to not do something, he has everyone (including their) best interests at heart.

I actually like the fact that both of them are different, from Lukri's wild eyed righteousness to Vitor's almost urbane behavior. Urbane or no, Vitor's responsible for more decapitations thanks to the Critical Hit deck. He's taken the heads of countless evil creatures.

Neither was a scold, but both at times had to keep their party on the straight and narrow, and neither has fallen prey to the misinformed belief that sometimes you need to 'break the rules' or 'be realistic.'

I've seen haunted dedicated paladins, I've seen philosopher paladins, political paladins, lawyer paladins.

As I said, the fault in my opinion is not in the class, its in the fact that a lot of people conflate law-abiding and honorable with stodgy instead of badass.

Some fun paladin quotes:

"The wicked are always surprised to find that the good can be clever." —Luc de Vauvenargues

"The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice.” - G. K. Chesterton

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.” - G.K. again.

‘By G’Quan, I can’t recall the last time I was in a fight like that. No moral ambiguity, no… hopeless battle against ancient and overwhelming forces. They were the bad guys, as you say, we were the good guys. And they made a very satisfying thump when they hit the floor’ - G'kar, Babylon 5

From Perelandra:
The UN-MAN: DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!
Dr. Ransom: I know what you are. Which one doesn't matter.

From the Man for all Seasons:

Sir Thomas More:
This country is planted thick with laws from coast to coast. Man's laws, not God's. And if you cut them down - and you're just the man to do it - do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?

William Roper:
So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

Sir Thomas More:
Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

William Roper:
Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

Sir Thomas More:
Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

"I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It's when you know you're licked before you begin, but you begin anyway and see it through no matter what. You rarely win, but sometimes you do" - Atticus Finch, To Kill A Mockingbird , Harper Lee.


Y'know, Maddie may be a comic relief "Int dump stat" character, but I think she's actually a really good paladin. She gets some pretty badass moments, too.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I play "Lyric, the Singing Paladin" in PFS. She's a paladin of Shelyn, and loves arts and other cultures, and she has a great sense of humor. I played her in one scenario where the other players were 1 wizard, 1 rogue, and 3 barbarians. Our mission? To escort and bring back to the society unharmed 6 goblin prisoners.

The goblins were trouble incarnate, and when we were handed them, we were told that none of them spoke anything but Goblin.

I told the GM, "Lyric starts to sing a raunchy song in common about a drunken fighter who can't figure out what room is his, and so keeps tumbling into bed with the wrong people and getting beat up by his lovers spouses." I pause. "Do any of the goblins react?" I roll sense motive, and discover that all the goblins are trying hard not to laugh, because they ALL understand common.

Lyric turns to the goblin group, claps and says, "Great acting job guys! You had me totally fooled. Now, I'm collecting rude songs. Do you have any for me?" Lyric nails the diplomacy roll, and soon all the goblins are teaching her their music.

One of the barbarians blinks. "What kind of a paladin are you?"

"The kind that didn't get my sense of humor surgically removed."

Lyric worked full-time, conscientiously, as a goblin babysitter. When they got into fights with each other, she said, "Guys, we can't do the fight now... Where's your audience? Where are the people to lay bets on which one of you is the most awesome? These things need planning! Hey, lets plan for your awesome fight!" This got all the goblins so excited about planning for this mythical battle that they were going to have that we never actually got back to the fight... Though Lyric would have let them have it if she could have assured that it would be non-lethal.

When one of the goblins put poop in the pocket of one of the barbarians, Lyric kept the barbarian from killing the goblin. "It was a funny joke. Go ahead, throw the poop back at him. I believe their culture allows it." Yes, I refereed a poop-flinging fight. It was non-lethal, and it saved face for the barbarian.

When we got interviewed by a storm giant demanding what we were doing with the goblins, I explained that I was escorting them and the goblins backed me up, talking about what a great time they had been having.

At several points in the adventure, Lyric interposed herself bodily between her captives and harm, willingly taking damage that had been meant for them. Long story made short: Lyric entertained, cajoled and diplomacized her six goblin captives and brought them all back alive despite the best efforts of both the goblins and her party.

I think that a lot of people think that lawful good means stiff or prissy, but there's nothing in the rules that says that being a paladin means that you cannot enjoy lowbrow humor, an occasional off-duty drink with friends, or that you cannot have fun while saving the world.


What a paladin with a sense of humor who defused a potentially violent situation....I guess wisdom is not a dump stat for paladins after all!

Silver Crusade

JonathonWilder wrote:
In personal games I DM, the Redeemer archetype would be opened up to other usually evil or violent races, monstrous or otherwise. Whether it be a goblin or a drow, as I feel the fluff could be fluid enough to justify such. Any character from a monstrous or normally evil race could taken up the path of good by becoming a paladin could also believe in redeeming others of their kin.

We pretty much keep it open for everyone since the only real requirement is a deep well of empathy and compassion.

Currently playing a tiefling Redeemer in WotR and it has been fantastic. It's honestly the most heartbreaking and heartwarming campaign I've ever played in.

Wrath of the Righteous:
Standing between a frightened forlarren child and a faction of inquisitor agitators that already have a hate on for you because you're a tiefling and managing to shame the mob and win it over was deeply gratifying.

Even if we know we're going to have to watch out for those inquisitors even more now. Saving a bunch of tieflings from the rope didn't endear us to those jerks anyway. At least we've managed to sway some of them to our side on the matter.


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I'm trying something different-y with my Paladin in Wrath of the Righteous: "Paladin as Punishment".

Background:
“Ain’t you cold?” one of the mercenaries called back.

“Freezing,” Rakeesh stated flatly. “I feel like there is ice pumping through my veins.”

“Then bring yerself over to the fire, ya fool!”

“It is of no help.” Rakeesh looked wistfully off towards the south. “I was once one of the Lords of Osirion… a descendent of Ragathiel himself… a being of glorious golden fire… a child of the princes of Heaven, Hell, and Golarion all in one…” his voice dropped nearly to a whisper. “The retribution of the Empyreal Lord is terrifying, my friends. Do not neglect your duty. Do not squander the gifts of fire and blood.”

“Oh, yeah?” the corner of the mercenary’s mouth turned up in skeptical amusement. “And what brings ya on this trek to the most godsforsaken corner of the world, yer highness?”

“The General of Vengeance has taken the fire from my heart, but has replaced it with purpose. I go now to seek that purpose, to honor the nobility of my heritage. To be worthy of my heritage.”

“Ya thinkin’ to earn yer wings, yer majesty?” the bruiser laughed.

Rakeesh shook his head. “Ragathiel does not forgive. That I live is more than a miracle. Once he turns his eyes upon you in anger…” Rakeesh shivered. “No. I seek vengeance. Demonkind are foul, unholy creatures, unwelcome upon this plane. But, it is not for them that I hold this righteous retribution. I seek vengeance upon myself. It was the gift of my blood that I squandered, and by my blood shall it be paid.”

The mercenary nudged his companion, “Suicide by demon.”

Rakeesh glanced over to where his sword lay propped against a nearby tree. “I am not without some skill in the arts of war. Nor am I a fool, to be easily undone by the guile and deceit of demons and their ilk. A man must be a fool to believe he is invulnerable anywhere, much less on the very doorstep of the Abyss. Crusaders should not expect to live to a ripe old age. But, I do not plan to surrender my life cheaply.”

“I hear’d tell the spawn of angels glow like the sun, and heal folks with their tears. You don’t look much like any angel to me.”

“If you had seen me before, you would not speak such words,” Rakeesh smiled sadly. “My eyes glowed like molten gold, and my hair was a wreath of flame. Now…” he looked upon the man with dull grey eyes and ran his hand through his limp flaxen hair. He stood and stretched himself to his full, considerable height, turning his strong, slender frame to ease the tension in his back.

“Well, at least it makes for an int’restin’ story, yer lordship!” the man guffawed. “Beggin’ yer pardon o’ course!” A few of the other mercenaries that Rakeesh was traveling with chuckled at the joke. “Still, ya can’t kill no demons if ya catch yer death afore ya get there. Come and warm yerself.”

“The fire holds no appeal for me. It is a pale candle to the inferno I hold within…”

.............

Twenty years ago... Tarna Sah Anun spun to avoid the barbed stinger that lashed down. With a leap and another twist he avoided the massive pincer that grabbed at his ankles. He brought his sword in a raking strike across the creature’s foreleg. It barely scratched the surface of his carapace. “I cannot damage it!” he cried.

Nefut Ira Tarna weaved her hands and chanted a litany of power to Ragathiel, bringing holy fire down on the back of the fiendish scorpion. Tarna dashed around the creature as it writhed in agony from the blast. With a massive swing of his sword, he sheared the end of the creature’s barbed tail. A spray of caustic black poison erupted from the wound, covering Tarna’s face. He fell to the ground retching, as the poison seeped into his wounds.

Nefut screamed in horror as the back of the scorpion’s massive claw swept Tarna away, leaving him lying broken dozens of feet from the battle. The Abyssal creature advanced on her, gouts of acidic bile still spilling from its wounded tail. Nefut drew upon her most powerful spell, channeling the divine power of the General of Vengeance directly into her frail body. Instantly her speed and power increased, rivaling that of her warrior husband’s. She charged, scooping up his sword as she attacked.

The raw divine power flowed unchecked through muscle and bone and vein. She swung the sword over and over, chipping away at the demon’s carapace. The fiend lunged at her with claw and mandible. She deflected the great pincer over her head, and drove towards the creature’s maw. As it bit down, she struck up. The sword drove through the creatures open mouth and deep into its brain, bursting forth through the iron-hard shell that had so far remained impenetrable.

Nefut crawled across the sand towards her husband. There was no bringing him back from the brink. All of the gifts of power Ragathiel had bestowed upon her were spent in the battle. The crucible of her final calling still burned white hot within her, divine energy permeating every pore… and deeper places she had not yet spoken of to her husband. “Do not despair, my love,” she whispered. She cradled his shattered head within her lap, and held it close to her stomach, close to her womb. “We are to be blessed.”

………………

One year ago... Rakeesh Sah Tarna reclined on the silken divan. The dancer was lithe and graceful, her movement pleasing, and showing the promise of greater pleasures to come. A scantily clad servant tried to fill his glass as he swayed to the fantasia being played by harp and cymbal. With a squeak she spilled the contents of the decanter across his hand, and on the sleeve of his robe. His eyes, normally the color of molten gold, turned fiery red in an instant. “Worthless, craven insect!” he shouted. “What use have I for a servant such as you?” The flaming mane of crimson that wreathed his head whipped itself into a full conflagration, and the heat pouring off of him forced the terrified girl back.

His mood soured, he stumbled drunkenly to his pagoda. Once he had cooled the inferno within, he would send for the dancer and some more wine. However, within the palatial tent he found an unexpected guest. Nefut did not frequently travel. Injuries from battle and complications in birth had left her corporeal self broken and weak, though she still carried powerful divine magic. “Mother?”

“My son. I have come to beg you once again, turn aside from this life of petty idolatries and vice. You have such gifts within you. Do not treat them with such disdain.” She stood and steadied her son, holding his face in her hands, forcing him to look her in the eye. “I granted you your youthful indiscretions. I stood aside as you pursued this life of ease and purposelessness. I stayed silent while you became a wastrel and a bully. But, I cannot stand silent any longer.”

Rakeesh shook himself free of her grasp, nearly falling in the process. “What would you have of me, mother?” he scoffed. “I’ll not throw my life away on some foolish crusade.”

“WORTHLESS, CRAVEN INSECT!” the words exploded from his mother’s throat, but they were not hers. The power behind them was so immense, Rakeesh was thrown to the floor by the very sound. “WHAT USE HAVE I FOR A SERVANT SUCH AS YOU?”

Blackness descended over him as if he had been suddenly submerged in the deepest ice-cold depths of the ocean. The last words he heard as unconsciousness took him was his mother pleading for his life…

He's not a bad person. He just really doesn't want to be in Mendev. He doesn't want to fight the demons. But, he hasn't been given a choice. We'll see how it goes...


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Mikaze wrote:
JonathonWilder wrote:
In personal games I DM, the Redeemer archetype would be opened up to other usually evil or violent races, monstrous or otherwise. Whether it be a goblin or a drow, as I feel the fluff could be fluid enough to justify such. Any character from a monstrous or normally evil race could taken up the path of good by becoming a paladin could also believe in redeeming others of their kin.

We pretty much keep it open for everyone since the only real requirement is a deep well of empathy and compassion.

Currently playing a tiefling Redeemer in WotR and it has been fantastic. It's honestly the most heartbreaking and heartwarming campaign I've ever played in.

** spoiler omitted **

Although I didn't play a tiefling paladin, I may as well have. I played a tiefling cleric of sarenrae, with a home brew archetype that was the good version of Feindish Vessel (a celestial vessel). Role played like a paladin, but was NG and had the abilities of a cleric - and a strong emphasis on the redemption qualities of sarenrae.

Only made it through book 1, but I had a blast reigning in my co-players' violent tendencies, keeping bad guys alive and taking them to local authorities, making deals with NPCs that we would help in return for them becoming better people, etc...

The Exchange

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I like your story Hmm. What gods (besides Shelyn), are good for paladins who have a sense of humor? I mean Shelyn's code on redemption goes a little too far for me, I'm not dragging a demon halfway across the country to redeem him. Humans/ half orcs/ half elves are still fine but, you have to draw a line someplace...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hey, Mort!

You're right, we're a bit redemptive.... Not as bad as Sarenrae, but still.

Shelyn Paladin Code wrote:

The paladins of Shelyn are peaceable promoters of art and beauty. They see the ugliness in evil, even when cloaked in the form of beauty, and their mission is to defend those who devote their lives to the creation of beauty, bring it forth themselves, and prevent the weak and foolish from being seduced by false promises. Their tenets include the following adages.

I see beauty in others. As a rough stone hides a diamond, a drab face may hide the heart of a saint.

I am peaceful. I come first with a rose rather than a weapon, and act to prevent conflict before it blossoms. I never strike first, unless it is the only way to protect the innocent.

I accept surrender if my opponent can be redeemed—and I never assume that they cannot be. All things that live love beauty, and I will show beauty’s answer to them.

I live my life as art. I will choose an art and perfect it. When I have mastered it, I will choose another. The works I leave behind make life richer for those who follow.

I will never destroy a work of art, nor allow one to come to harm, unless greater art arises from its loss. I will only sacrifice art if doing so allows me to save a life, for untold beauty can arise from an awakened soul.

I lead by example, not with my blade. Where my blade passes, a life is cut short, and the world’s potential for beauty is lessened.

Of course, that's assuming the demon surrenders... I'm trying to think about this one. Torag's code is awesome, but doesn't allow for idle chatter. You may have to go obscure and pick one of the other LG, NG or LN gods that does not have a written code from one of the Tien, Osyiian or Empyreal Lord Pantheons, and write your own.

::Hmm pages through the lesser-known deities::

Ooooh! How about Kurgess, the god of Sport? He looks like a good-humored guy...


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you keep your sense of humor very dry or folksy, Erastil can work. Should play it humble, but can still have a sense of humor.


Paladins hold to an ideal of what could be, which tends to make them unpopular because they won't accept the excuse of "That's too hard!"

They dedicate themselves toward the betterment of the world around them, and are willing to die to protect that endeavor or to see it advanced.

The best played paladins I know all live with pain and/or loss, and strive to rise above it and help others to do the same.

Those don't require a Lawful alignment, but they do require deep compassion and strength of heart.

The Exchange

Demons would do anything in the whim of the moment. They are chaotic afterall.And don't expect them to honour their promises after.

I CDG a lot. Dead enemies don't bother you. Maybe I'm not worthy to be a paladin.

And for all Dresden file fans out there..redemption isn't even just humans only. Even a demon can be redeemed (kinda) - lasciel, look at lash.

I think the hardest part is drawing the line between who can be redeemed and not. Torag would let you slaughter everyone offhand, but that goes too far for me.

My humour is more of a Lyric style humor, but not that far. I probably wouldn't refree a poo fight, but for epic brawls, id get the goblins to use a cooking pot for a helm, pot cover for a shield, and brooms to whack wach other with ^^

Kurgress is interesting, but I think he wouldn't be killing a downed demon, he'd probably go, "hey let him gain a few more levels and we can get another bar room brawl!" and just leave the demon there, even if it has fast healing.

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