I Am Serious about Fixing Pathfinder

[ren]

Some of you from Seattle and on other forums know me as Ren, a little crazy, always wanting to play-test and improve existing RPGs.

I worked on 4th Edition and on the 5th Edition of that other system. And while I believe that 5th Edition system is good, it can be even better.

Here are ideas I have play-tested and collected from various comments over the years that have really worked well -- so well that I want to join the Paizo team as an amateur designer. ..just as a hobby. I'm not looking to get paid.

I have a JavaScript game manager that works on browsers for Linux, Mac and Windows. It even works on mobile tablets and phones. Obviously it does not work on I.E. as I.E. has just been discontinued. This is based on Asmor's Combat Tracker. I originally used it for 5th Edition but the lawyers with that company are a bit too strict and unreasonable.

Furthermore, some of those people don't even play the game. It is just a job to them. Some of them have admitted to me that they don't even play-test what they write. Not so with Paizo writers who actually play the game.

What I would like to do is keep this thread open and updated with a revised rule system until we get one that everybody can live with.

The game is here featuring material from the latest Pathfinder Origins comic. I have always been a fan of the publishing and the art of Paizo.

http://d20game.weebly.com

So here is the basic RPG Core System.

1. Instead of Feet, we will use live-action role-playing arbitrary steps and combat map grid squares. 5 English feet equals 1 Square and 1 Step. This is similar to 4th edition. For example WALK 6 means (the character walks 30 feet per turn, up to 6 squares on a map, or up to 6 steps when live-role-playing).

2. Instead of proficiencies, expertise, feat bonuses, and a host of other small modifiers. We will break up all modifiers into these categories.

If an ability score is above 20 for a mortal humanoid, the score becomes 20.

If an armor class is above 30, the armor class becomes 30.

If the level is above 30, the level becomes 30.

If an ability score is above 30 for an immortal or a beast, that score becomes 30.

1d20
-10 to +10 bonus for weapon size, magic item, spell, etc.
-5 to +10 modifier from the relevant ability score
+1 to +10 level bonus calculated LEVEL/3 round up.

Situation Modifiers(this is where feat modifiers would be added)
-10 to +10

versus

Armor Class 10
+1 to +9 Armor Bonus
+1 Shield or Reach weapon Bonus
-5 to +10 Dexterity Modifier
+1 to +10 Level Modifier

3.) No more Spell Slots. Your Spell/Feat Points are equal to your highest ability modifier + your level.

Spells and Feats cost 1 spell point.

To add a target or an ally, you spend another spell/feat point(max 5 targets per turn).

To increase the damage +1d, spend 1 spell point(max 5d per turn)

For dedicated casting classes, your spell area radius is 2x2 (10 feet by 10 feet). Increase the radius by 1 by spending a spell point. Max 5x5.

4.) Skills are grouped in Packages
Athletics(balance, intimidate, ride, swim)
Performance Acting(bluff, deception, disguise)
..for example

5.) Spells are grouped in Packages
The Fire Package(Light, Faerie Fire, Burning Hands, Fireball)
Spell touch or range 3
damage 1d6 for casters(spell radius 2x2+1 per spell point)
1d8 single target damage for fighter-casters+1 target per spell point
1d20+relevant ability modifier+level bonus versus target's dex save

6.)
There are 4 basic classes,

Fighter 1d12 - exclusive use of certain feats

Skilled 1d10 - exclusive use of survival skill package, performance actor and magician package

Fighter-Caster 1d8 - exclusive use of life/necromancy spells

Caster 1d6 - exclusive use of area spells

7.) Feats(mostly situation modifiers toHit and toDamage)
Thrust
Slash
Riposte
Lunge
Bungle
for example

8.) Damage conditions, the same as the current Pathfinder game.

Suggestions?

[wraithstrike]

What exactly are you trying to fix, and how do you think your fixes will change them. More in depth information is needed. What is your end goal? What some people see as bugs other people see as features so being more detailed is going to be a requirement before you can get proper feedback.

[ObsessiveCompulsiveWolf]

Flagged for being in wrong forum. I'm seeing homebrew, not a product.

[Interjection Games]

Pare it down a bit more and make a board game out of it.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Aside from the "spell points" bit, this does not look like an improvement to me at all...and that's really just in the passing reference to an alternative to Vancian magic. Upon closer examination, I don't really see much to say for the particulars you have there.

[Lemmy]

I dislike literally all of those changes. IMHO they cause more harm than good.

[Vorduvai]

@ren Wow...that's certainly filled up the arrogant presumption bucket for the day...

[wraithstrike]

Now that I have taken the time to read over this in detail I am not liking any of these changes. I fail to see the benefit of why I should use them.

[cartmanbeck]

To add to what everyone else is saying... I think it's incredibly presumptuous to say "I want to fix your game for you, how about you just take all my ideas and make them real?"

Also, I don't understand why people want to "fix" Pathfinder. It is Pathfinder, and if you don't like it, use a different system. I personally love it.

[LazarX]

ren wrote:

What I would like to do is keep this thread open and updated with a revised rule system until we get one that everybody can live with.

Ain't going to happen. If there is one thing that Gamers are fundamentally incapable of doing is agreeing on anything as a group. The only thing that will keep this thread going is the ongoing pointless demonstration of this fact.

Your talents in writing Java don't neccesarily translate into great inspiration for roleplaying game that's not being run by a computer.

In stead of stumping on an empty presumption, why don't prove me wrong and WRITE this great game of yours. Because you're certainly not doing it in the leadership department.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

LazarX wrote:

Your talents in writing Java don't neccesarily translate into great inspiration for roleplaying game that's not being run by a computer.

As a matter of fact, they may even be a handicap, at least if relied on to the exclusion of any other faculty. The ability to operate in ways completely beyond the scope of anything computers can possibly do is exactly what's going to keep pen-and-paper RPGs relevant in the age of ubiquitous computers.

[Melkiador]

I actually do like the 5th edition stat capping. But simply tacking that on to PF won't work as the game assumes your stats are higher past a certain level.

The main issue is that the proposed changes are so extreme as to not even bother calling it Pathfinder anymore.

[ladydragona]

Why don't you use the OGL just like Paizo did create your game publish it and see if anyone is interested if it really is the best out their when your done people will find it and buy it. Otherwise we are happy with our game the way it is.

[John Kretzer]

What needs to be 'fixed' is very much subjective matter. Looking at your 'fixes' two thoughts crossed my mind.

1) They seem to work great for you.

2) I don't consider the things they would 'fix' to be 'broken' in the first place. Some them like class option I consider to be the exact opposite as a matter of fact to what you like it seems.

What you are talking about is subjective. Your changes are great to you...others may not like them so much. It is impossible to reach a consensus with this because 'What makes a good RPG' will change from person to person.

[Cap. Darling]

Hey Ren and welcome to the forums. Why would we mix in Live-action-role-play stuff in PF? I am sure your ideas are great but i dont undestand them. I suggest you split them up and present them in individual threads. The Spell point thing May get a lot of positive feedback but i doubt the 1 step is better then 5 feet will get the same attention. Also things like AC max 30 is not gonna work with out changed that you dont suggest.

[Little Red Goblin Games]

ren wrote:

I worked on 4th Edition and on the 5th Edition of that other system. And while I believe that 5th Edition system is good, it can be even better.

As a designer? Like credit on the books?

ren wrote:

Here are ideas I have play-tested and collected from various comments over the years that have really worked well -- so well that I want to join the Paizo team as an amateur designer. ..just as a hobby. I'm not looking to get paid.

A) Wrong place to post this message. You should look at their Jobs section for openings.

B) Probably not going to happen. They have a very tight and professional team that works full time. 3rd party publishing is a more viable route to get into the industry.

[LazarX]

Little Red Goblin Games wrote:

ren wrote:

I worked on 4th Edition and on the 5th Edition of that other system. And while I believe that 5th Edition system is good, it can be even better.

As a designer? Like credit on the books?

ren wrote:

Here are ideas I have play-tested and collected from various comments over the years that have really worked well -- so well that I want to join the Paizo team as an amateur designer. ..just as a hobby. I'm not looking to get paid.

A) Wrong place to post this message. You should look at their Jobs section for openings.

B) Probably not going to happen. They have a very tight and professional team that works full time. 3rd party publishing is a more viable route to get into the industry.

The RPG market is a very small market. It's the smallest of all gaming markets, dwarfed by card games, board games, all forms of gaming.

There aren't that many jobs out there, and professionals don't have time for amateurs. Paizo does have internships that are done through college programs for people going into appropriate creative majors. That's the only opportunity for for the sort of thing you're looking for.

The only other option is to get yourself published. Put in material in RPG Superstar, submit to Wayfinder, and other publications. Do the work, get yourself noticed, and demonstrate the exceptional talent that's the minimum requirement to break into this small and very crowded field.

[Interjection Games]

Aye, there's only $15,000,000 a year to go around. If you play your cards right, you'll be making more money than a job in the industry would offer by the time the big guys take enough notice to hand you the job. It makes jockeying for one of those jobs a losing proposition to begin with.

Now, if it falls in your lap, go for it. Building market share in RPGs is a nightmare.

[Ivan Rûski]

ren wrote:

1. Instead of Feet, we will use live-action role-playing arbitrary steps and combat map grid squares. 5 English feet equals 1 Square and 1 Step. This is similar to 4th edition. For example WALK 6 means (the character walks 30 feet per turn, up to 6 squares on a map, or up to 6 steps when live-role-playing).

This may be the only proposed change I agree with. Makes it more universal since most of the world uses meters instead of feet.

Quote:

2. Instead of proficiencies, expertise, feat bonuses, and a host of other small modifiers. We will break up all modifiers into these categories.

If an ability score is above 20 for a mortal humanoid, the score becomes 20.

If an armor class is above 30, the armor class becomes 30.

If the level is above 30, the level becomes 30.

If an ability score is above 30 for an immortal or a beast, that score becomes 30.

1d20
-10 to +10 bonus for weapon size, magic item, spell, etc.
-5 to +10 modifier from the relevant ability score
+1 to +10 level bonus calculated LEVEL/3 round up.

Situation Modifiers(this is where feat modifiers would be added)
-10 to +10

versus

Armor Class 10
+1 to +9 Armor Bonus
+1 Shield or Reach weapon Bonus
-5 to +10 Dexterity Modifier
+1 to +10 Level Modifier

3.) No more Spell Slots. Your Spell/Feat Points are equal to your highest ability modifier + your level.

Spells and Feats cost 1 spell point.

To add a target or an ally, you spend another spell/feat point(max 5 targets per turn).

To increase the damage +1d, spend 1 spell point(max 5d per turn)

For dedicated casting classes, your spell area radius is 2x2 (10 feet by 10 feet). Increase the radius by 1 by spending a spell point. Max 5x5.

Why all the caps on abilities/armor class/levels/etc.? Why change how spells work completely? This isn't "fixing" anything, it's making a whole new game!

Quote:

4.) Skills are grouped in Packages

Athletics(balance, intimidate, ride, swim)
Performance Acting(bluff, deception, disguise)
..for example

This already happened some in the change from 3.5. Some could probably be combined more, but others could probably stand to go back to what they were.

Quote:

5.) Spells are grouped in Packages

The Fire Package(Light, Faerie Fire, Burning Hands, Fireball)
Spell touch or range 3
damage 1d6 for casters(spell radius 2x2+1 per spell point)
1d8 single target damage for fighter-casters+1 target per spell point
1d20+relevant ability modifier+level bonus versus target's dex save

Not sure on this one.

Quote:

6.)

There are 4 basic classes,

Fighter 1d12 - exclusive use of certain feats

Skilled 1d10 - exclusive use of survival skill package, performance actor and magician package

Fighter-Caster 1d8 - exclusive use of life/necromancy spells

Caster 1d6 - exclusive use of area spells

No. If you don't want the variety of classes, don't play with them. I like having a large variety of classes to choose from.

Quote:

7.) Feats(mostly situation modifiers toHit and toDamage)

Thrust
Slash
Riposte
Lunge
Bungle
for example

Feats already do these things, so this isn't really a change.

Quote:

8.) Damage conditions, the same as the current Pathfinder game.

Again, not a change.

[RDM42]

To me this feels more like 'fixed' as in 'what happens to a pet'

[wraithstrike]

I don't know you from any other forums that talk about Pathfinder such as Enworld or RPG.net, so I really dont know how familiar you are with the system. I also noticed this is the only post you have here. You might want to do some research by reading various topics, and if you are sure that you still want to do this then you will need tough skin. The Paizo devs do a good job with the game now, they still have a tough time keeping us happy. Collectively I think we are a good forum, but many of us are also highly opinionated so be ready for whatever comes your way when you post here.

This is my last post unless you make another comment or someone directly responds to this.

[Chemlak]

Pretty much what everyone else has said: yes, there are "problems" with PF, but the whole game doesn't need a redesign.

[WideAndNerdy]

Paizo has made a substantial investment of time, energy, talent, and resources into creating a product.

You have made a post in a forum.

And you expect them to radically change everything they worked so hard to create when you can't be bothered to put in even a fraction of their effort?

The whole point of the Pathfinder rule system is to be a revision of DnD 3.5 and to keep that rule set viable for those of us who don't care for the direction later editions took and you would seek to take that from us when what you propose is a lot closer to later editions.

You're really naive about where you're posting. Or you're just trying to mess with us.