To Dip or Not To Dip, That is the Question (Character Build Advice)


Advice


So, I'm starting up a bard in an Iron Gods game (NO SPOILERS PLEASE) and I'm focusing exclusivly on buffing. I'd like a little bit of advice. This is my first time playing a bard and my first time playing a character that's focusing entirely on buffing to the exclusion of direct combat.

The rest of the party: Barbarian TWF; Gunslinger (Pistolero); Cleric of Bragh (expect to focus on battle-cleric type stuff); Sorcerer (likely going to end up being a blaster)

Questions:
1) Is it worthwhile to dip a level into either sorcerer or oracle to get some additional buffing options? If so, what mystery/bloodline/curse would help the build?
2) What feats should I aim for? Discordant Voice and Improved Initiative are obvious. I'm considering Spellsong and Harmonic Sage but any other good ones?

Thank you!

My 1st level character:

Ycrn Avga Davgrim
Gnome Bard 1
NG Small Humanoid (Gnome)
Init +4 Senses Darkvision 60' Perception +4

AC 16 Touch 13 Flat-footed 14
hp 10
Fort +2 Ref +4 Will +2

Speed 20'
Melee: None
Ranged: None

Str 6 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 18
BAB +0 CMB -3 CMD 9
Feat: Flagbearer
Spells:
0 Daze
0 Prestidigation
0 Flare
0 Resistance
1 Silent Image
1 Grease

Tactics:
Use Inspire Courage in round 1 then use daze, flare, grease as combat goes on to debuff the enemy.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

I wouldn't dip. There's nothing you can gain from Sorcerer or Oracle that's worth giving up the level of spellcasting (not to mention bardic performance/knowledge progression). If you want non-bard spells, just get UMD.

For feats, I'd take Lingering Performance first, to get the most out of your few rounds of performance at low levels. At higher levels, you can retrain it, or keep it around for when you use spells that require you to end your performance. With 14 Int and bardic knowledge, Breadth of Experience would be a good option too. It looks like you'll have to be the Knowledge guy for this team. Once you get to level 5 or 7 (depending on whether you invest in Perform (oratory)), Battle Cry is a must)

Scarab Sages

The reason to dip sorcerer in a caster class is to exploit bloodline arcana. A blaster can get a bonus on damage, or an enchanter can affect a type of creature they normally would not be able to. For a buffer, there is nothing you would gain that would be worth the loss of class abilities and caster level.

If I were dip anything on your build, it would be swashbuckler or gunslinger to make myself at least somewhat decent in combat.

Grand Lodge

Don't dip.

May want to look at being a anvil with all those hammers.

But if you wish to be a buffer bard look at the masterpieces triple time and pageant of the peacock. The peacock will make itso you make every INT skill. Info helps the team on top of buffs.

Sovereign Court

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:


But if you wish to be a buffer bard look at the masterpieces triple time and pageant of the peacock. The peacock will make itso you make every INT skill. Info helps the team on top of buffs.

Ugh Pageant. There's a reason PFS banned it. :P

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

No one is going to complain about getting those buffs. Constant Morale bonus, occasional competence bonus can be a huge force multiplier.

Lingering Song is very nice, another option is to grab a whip and get combat reflexes/bodyguard/adopted helpful halfling.


it would be worth taking a dip into sorc for the infernal blood line to get the +2 DC to charm/dominate person if you were going to be using those spells at all. things like heroism, haste and good word are great spells to have but you might get a little tired of buffing after a few sessions spent standing in the back twiddling your thumbs. I'm not sure if there is an arcana where you can increase the DC of illusion spells but if your going to be doing illusion/enchantments at all then its worth looking into.

plus with the one level dip into sorcerer you can have a lot of fun by getting 4-5 extra charm persons per day. it really does make the out of combat stuff a lot of fun.

disclaimer, I dont know anything about iron gods or pathfinder technology books. you might need to take some sort of archtype like the technology version of the dirge bard to make mind effecting spells work on robots, I'm not sure.0


I might change up your spells a bit. Check with your other casters as there's a lot of utility 0 level spells the party should have.

If you're going to be the party IDer of magic (items) you'll need Detect Magic.

1st level Bard spell - Big fan of Saving Finale (in APG).
Immediate Action to end your performance to grant a re-roll to a failed save to a ally under the effect of your bardic songs.


I say take a look at the evangelist cleric archetype and the heroism domain. You get full inspire courage and other nice buff spells. It's like a Divine bard


Matt2VK wrote:

I might change up your spells a bit. Check with your other casters as there's a lot of utility 0 level spells the party should have.

If you're going to be the party IDer of magic (items) you'll need Detect Magic.

1st level Bard spell - Big fan of Saving Finale (in APG).
Immediate Action to end your performance to grant a re-roll to a failed save to a ally under the effect of your bardic songs.

Any particular 0th level spells you're concerned about?

I do really enjoy Saving Finale. I'll certainly pick that one up.


RainyDayNinja wrote:

I wouldn't dip. There's nothing you can gain from Sorcerer or Oracle that's worth giving up the level of spellcasting (not to mention bardic performance/knowledge progression). If you want non-bard spells, just get UMD.

For feats, I'd take Lingering Performance first, to get the most out of your few rounds of performance at low levels. At higher levels, you can retrain it, or keep it around for when you use spells that require you to end your performance. With 14 Int and bardic knowledge, Breadth of Experience would be a good option too. It looks like you'll have to be the Knowledge guy for this team. Once you get to level 5 or 7 (depending on whether you invest in Perform (oratory)), Battle Cry is a must)

Lingering Performance seems like a great one (saw that from a couple people) so I'll definitely take it. Battle Cry is a morale bonus and that overlaps with my Flagbearer feat.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

MeanMutton wrote:
RainyDayNinja wrote:

I wouldn't dip. There's nothing you can gain from Sorcerer or Oracle that's worth giving up the level of spellcasting (not to mention bardic performance/knowledge progression). If you want non-bard spells, just get UMD.

For feats, I'd take Lingering Performance first, to get the most out of your few rounds of performance at low levels. At higher levels, you can retrain it, or keep it around for when you use spells that require you to end your performance. With 14 Int and bardic knowledge, Breadth of Experience would be a good option too. It looks like you'll have to be the Knowledge guy for this team. Once you get to level 5 or 7 (depending on whether you invest in Perform (oratory)), Battle Cry is a must)

Lingering Performance seems like a great one (saw that from a couple people) so I'll definitely take it. Battle Cry is a morale bonus and that overlaps with my Flagbearer feat.

Well, I'd take Battle Cry before I took Flagbearer. As for morale bonuses, you'll probably be casting heroism a lot in a few levels, so it won't stack anyway. The real benefit of Battle Cry is the reroll effect.


Great utility 0 level spells -

Any Light spells
mage hand
mending
Message
Open/Close (great for opening those chests at range 'after the rogue says it's not trapped')
Prestidigitation
Read Magic
Resistance (cleric's Guidance is better in my opinion.) - Like casting it before opening up any door on a dungeon crawl.
Spark

All of these can be used in creative ways to help your party spoil the evil GMs plans. Most of them only need one person in the party to have. Having multiple casters in the party, you should see about splitting some of these up.

Grand Lodge

Message is a bard must. You ca n deliver competence through it.

Im a fan of sift as a 0 level spell.

I start with daze but turn it into flare after level 4.


Thank you everyone for the great advice!

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