Need a god-


Advice


Primarily, I need a god akin to the Christian, Old Testament, smite the corrupt god- I need a god that would say "Prove your faith by slaying your child," while being good. Basically, I need a god to re-fluff this

Sovereign Court

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Vagabond? wrote:
I need a god that would say "Prove your faith by slaying your child," while being good.

I'm assuming "and then I won't have you follow through - I just needed to make sure that you were that commited to me".

Torag might work. He's all about smiting his enemies and showing no mercy to them. (Like how in the OT the Israelites often were told not to.)


Iomadae might fit


I'll second Torag. He's more "hardcore".

Sovereign Court

You can make up a god if you are the dm, it's frankly not that hard but beside that...take your pick.

Gods from various pantheons, including fictional ones (Greyhawk, Forgotten realms, golarion, etc...)

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Ragathiel.


Hell, Asmodeus in the right frame. Especially if he's still in the "corrupting people to evil and convincing them evil doesn't actually exist," phase of conversion and capture. In fiction, Pelor was often portrayed as holding that particular "idiot ball" of Caligulan faith-testing.

At it's heart this is an alignment question (alarms blare, hatches batten down) since the whole "cleanse the wicked, test your faith" idiom is an instance of good being, well, not so good. In that light *any* god can be the god that has a mother killing her own child. The only question is whether it's a pitiless and brutal form of "good," a lying and manipulative brand of "evil," or something in between that demands obedience (probably lawful, probably) for any number of reasons.

Edit: Personally, I would go with Aroden.

You might think that Aroden is dead, and therefore can't do things like this. But as a god he may not be bound by such petty concerns as 4th-dimensional temporal mechanics. Nothing says he couldn't have sent a bunch of messages forward in time at the moment of his necropotheosis, a last gasp of a dying god laying groundwork for something, perhaps even his rebirth.

Or, more simply, it's someone claiming all that while actually being something else.


Vagabond? wrote:
Primarily, I need a god akin to the Christian, Old Testament, smite the corrupt god- I need a god that would say "Prove your faith by slaying your child," while being good. Basically, I need a god to re-fluff this

Well, sidestepping the idea that the OT God most likely would not fall under the Good alignment to start with, there's nothing to say that you can't follow a Neutral or even Evil god and simply play down the evil side and play up the good side.

An example I've played before, in the Eberron setting there is an Evil god called The Keeper. Basically played up as being not unlike the devil, he's a dark god that steals souls before they reach the other side and jealously keeps them for himself.

The character I played worshiped the Keeper as a force of Good, believing that at the end of time there would be a great battle between Good and Evil, and that the Keeper was snatching up souls of the worthy to avoid their destruction (Eberron isn't very black and white when it comes to what happens to a soul after death) so that they can fight for the side of Good at the end of time. His driving goal as a person was to prove himself worthy enough to be taken by the Keeper so that he could be a hero of the light in the final battle at the end of time.

Just because the books say a god is one way doesn't mean thats how everyone that follows them sees them. Even if the god is irrevocably evil, there will be those that still see them as a force of good and are concerned about how the other "false" followers are giving their god a bad name.


Torag is pretty hardcore for LG.


If you want to interpret the Old Testament God as LG rather than LN/LE, Torag is your best bet. New Testament is more Sarenrae.


Hm, alright- If the old testament god was NEUTRAL, then what god would he be?


Frankly Sarenrae would fit more that one would think at first. She's all about "everyone deserves a chance at redemption" but then it's smite those who do not use the chance. My memory does leak at times, but I seem to recall she wasn't even exactly lawful. NG wasn't there? Just enough to pull out the Isaac trick.

Then again Ragathiel does seem more wild for the job.
As for the evil parts of God in the OT - most of those were more about his "chosen people" using him as a tool to commit their atrocities. Similarly to how some "muslim" do today. On his own he was shown more as harsh, but benevolent. At least thats how I saw it.
Yep, have a read at Ragathiel allright.


Well the God/Yehovah of the Old Testament was a god of laws and tests more so then the New Testament version God who changed his/her/its ways from hardcore tests to more understanding with the New Covenant with man and Christ, but that's beside the point. Abadar immediately comes to mind, especially given the fact that he is the god of judges, law, and civilization. He may be LN, but his priests can be LG as well. I can see him giving this type of command as a test of whether his priests/worshippers can interpret a just command or law. The test is a matter of reason, faith and emotion, just like it was for Isaac.

Also, for another example of this play in motion, read the analysis of Sol Weintraub the Wandering Jew from the Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons. It's the exact same test you are looking for basing a story on.
http://www.shmoop.com/hyperion/sol-weintraub.html


In a more exotic way Calistria fits slightly, with the taking revenge part. Justice can be a sort of revenge.

As posted above Sarenrae is quite feasable..though the old testament god didn't have time for those sissy "second chances".

Also it's tough to be a god so don't expect perfection.


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To the OP: your best two bets are going to be Erastil (for the "everything in its place" concept) or Torag (for the "good is not nice" idea), though Iomedae (paladins, yo), Ragathiel can also work well (for the "smiteousness of evil) personality wise, and Andoletta (for a more protective, but not soft, mein). Angradd would be solid, except he's dwarf-exclusive.

If you're okay with more obscure Golarion elements that have a more similar portfolio (though I'm less certain of their personalities), Damerrich, Erlang Shen, Neshen, Shizuru (for some of the more esoteric elements of the OT divinity), Vildeis, Winlas, and Zohls would fit relatively well. Each of these have some element or elements of their portfolio which display aspects of what the OT was attempting to communicate about God.

You'll notice that every option I mention is lawful good. This is because the presentation of the Old Testament (the Hebrew Scriptures) is overwhelmingly lawful in nature, starting with the Law (the Torah, the first five books).

While other gods can certainly fit the bill, I didn't look too deeply at them because of that aspect.

Hope that helps!


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An alignment-religion thread, we're lucky this thing hasn't already exploded and taken out half the forum with it.

edit: I could add my opinions on religion and the descent/development of various modern-day religions and human ethics and the nature of religious thought in details that would set the boards aflame, but instead, I think we should just have some light music.

Love that song.

Anyways, the question really boils down to "what is your god supposed to be doing?" Even THEN it's an alignment question *sirens blare, hatches batten down* and risky territory, but at least you'd have a little more direction than one data point of a woman (who is portrayed as legitimately insane and probably *not* talking to the god she thinks she's talking to) trying to murder her kid.

God is good, god is brutal? Torag is simple and straightforward. But there's a LOT of possible permutations. Is it The Law or What's Right? Is it Punish the Guilty or Destroy the wicked (before they can do wickedness again)? Is it "Because I said so" or "Because it is self-evidently wrong"?

Paizo Glitterati Robot

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Removed a series of posts/replies to them. Unless you're providing the original poster with actual advice, don't post. Let's leave the pointed religious chatter out of the Advice forum. Thanks.

Dark Archive

Reaching back into antiquity that was Greyhawk I would Convert
St Cuthbert of the Cudgel

This was created by zergtitan

St Cuthbert of the Cudgel

Cuthbert spent his life as a saint on a distant world, but in death was sent by his god to act as a deity in another world. While at first serving as a minor deity under Aroden whom he felt had many similarities in beliefs to his own, he later became a more prominent after Arodens death, and felt many similarities between Imoedae and Jesus. Today he continues spreading the teachings of his god to others in hopes of saving the world from the darkness that is beginning to consume it.

Alignment: LN(LG)
Holy symbol: Ruby-studded starburst
Portfolio: Common Sense, Wisdom, Zeal, Honesty, Truth, Discipline

Domains: Glory, Good, Law, Nobility, Protection, Strength.
Sub-Domains: Archon, Defense, Heroism, Honor, Leadership, Martyr, Purity, Resolve.

Favored weapon: Heavy Mace (though many groups have used light maces, clubs, and quarterstaff.)

Note. While he gave away his original mace away long ago, his god gave him a copy to personally wield while the original continues to pass among those in need of it. Never to return to Cuthbert until their is no more evil in the world.

His faith can be in Varisia, Absolam, Andoran, Taldor, Lastwall, Mendev, and in secret in Cheliax.

Relation to other gods.

Imoedae: sees her as a parallel to Christ.
Aroden: a friend who has passed away but will never be forgotten.
Erastil: a god of similar mindset but feels that he neglects the people in the cities too often.
Abadar: a well disciplined deity, but forgets sometimes about the people in the countryside and that without virtue, law means nothing.
Torag: excellent fighting companion and friend.
Sarenae: a woman of good heart, though easily forgets to discipline her converts and followers so they don't fall back onto sin.
Shelyn: a kind girl, but thinks too much about love and not enough about fighting evil.
Cayden Cailien: an unruly boy who tries to do the right thing but always looks for trouble.
Desna: a tragic story behind that girl, but doesn't have the proper discipline to truly be able to make a difference with her fighting.
Iori: a well disciplined individual, but doesn't think enough about helping others, only his own personal enlightenment.
CN deities: cause nothing but trouble.
Pharasma: a grim woman who knows the need for proper judgment in the afterlife.
Nethys: an disaster waiting to happen.
Gozreh: disaster itself, untamed but tolerable.
Asmodeus: reminds him heavily of lucifer.
All other evil deities: abominations that should be slain on sight.

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