In reference to the following alternate racial trait for the Samsaran race:
Mystic Past Life (Su) You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class. You add a number of spells equal to 1 + your spellcasting class's key ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, and so on). The spells must be the same type (arcane or divine) as the spellcasting class you're adding them to. For example, you could add divine power to your druid class spell list, but not to your wizard class spell list because divine power is a divine spell. These spells do not have to be spells you can cast as a 1st-level character. The number of spells granted by this ability is set at 1st level. Changes to your ability score do not change the number of spells gained. This racial trait replaces shards of the past.
1) At what spell level are the new spells acquired? My instinctual assumption is that the spells are gained at the same spell level as the class from which they are borrowed. If so, a wizard choosing Cure Moderate Wounds from the Witch's spell list would add that to her list as a 2nd level spell as it is normally a 2nd level spell for a witch, right?
2) Building on the assumption that #1 is correct, can you effectively use this trait to gain "early access" to spells you already have on your spell list? Can a wizard add Haste as a 2nd level spell and Greater Invisibility as a 3rd level spell (by selecting spells from the Summoner spell list) even though they are already on her spell list as 3rd and 4th level spells, respectively? In that specific example, a Summoner could not cast Haste until he reached at least 4th level and Greater Invisibility until he was 7th, but the Samsaran wizard could Haste at 3rd level and Greater Invisibility at 5th level.
3) The text of Mystic Past Life states that these new spells are added to "the spell list of your current spellcasting class", not to your spells known. Is it the intention then that these spells are not automatically added to a character's spellbook/spells known/familiar? In other words, would she still have to select these spells when she levels up and gains new spells (or adds to her spellbook via scrolls, recovered spellbooks, etc.)?
4) And finally, am I correct in assuming that a character can select only a single other spellcasting class from which to pilfer spells? The text of the trait reads "You can add spells from another spellcasting class", but then goes on to explain that you can only take spells that are Arcane if you are an Arcane caster, or Divine spells if you are a Divine caster. Does this indicate that a player could take any arcane spells and add them to her Samsaran wizard's spell list, or would she have to select the spellcasting list of a single other spellcasting class (such as Summoner)?
1-3: Yes.
Aside on 2: While correct by RAW, you should still check with your GM as a courtesy. Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. =P
4: Huh. When I made my own samsaran wizard a couple years ago I thought I had to pick a single class to get spells from . But now that I'm re-reading it, no, it doesn't actually lock in what class you take spells from; you're only restricted on what class you add the spells to (i.e., the class you actually have at 1st level).
So yeah, if you're making a samsaran wizard, you can cherry pick from the summoner, bard, and witch lists. (You probably don't want anything from the magus and bloodrager lists. I don't want to think about whether alchemist counts as a list you can poach from at this time. =P)
Many GMs are likely to say that gaining early access is too cheesy, even if the rules appear to allow it. There is some justification - adding a spell that is already on their list (eg haste) shouldn't be possible.
However, an arcane Samsaran should definitely see if alchemist 'spells' are allowed to gain access to eg Heal (at 6th) and Restoration.
However, an arcane Samsaran should definitely see if alchemist 'spells' are allowed to gain access to eg Heal (at 6th) and Restoration.
Since they aren't spells and aren't arcane in nature, this is solely in the GM's hands. However, Heal is on the Witch spell list, and so is Restoration via the Healing patron.
I don't think an arcane samsaran can tag patron spells, since those aren't actually on a class spell list.
(Similarly, I don't think you'd be able to tag bloodline spells, domains spells, spirit spells, etc. The actual class spell lists is what determines what you can take with this ability.)
I don't think an arcane samsaran can tag patron spells, since those aren't actually on a class spell list.
(Similarly, I don't think you'd be able to tag bloodline spells, domains spells, spirit spells, etc. The actual class spell lists is what determines what you can take with this ability.)
I'd personally let them take bolt of glory, as it's a devine spell on no spellcasting list anymore.
Yet it still exists?
Heh. Makes enoguh sense for the "legacy" nature a samsuran, I guess.
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1, 2, and 3: Yes
4. Nothing states it has to be from a single class, therefore you can.
I personally don't find anything cheesy about getting early access to arcane spells. The only case it seems to imbalance things is in the case of summoning spells. All of the other early access spells tend to be party buffs, and I think every party likes getting good buffs.
4. Nothing states it has to be from a single class, therefore you can.
Does the following not indicate that it has to be from a single class?
"You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class."
I'm not sure if I'm just being unnecessarily nitpicky about it, but that seems to suggest a single class, not multiple classes. I'm not entirely convinced one way or the other, and I can't find any official statement on this.
As I said, I'd originally read it as only a single class as well.
But re-reading, there's no language about choosing a single class to take spells from. The only restriction is that spells must be taken from arcane or divine classes as appropriate to your own class.
@ Frodo - the early access spells that are problematic can be pretty spectacular though. I know I've seen Overwhelming Presence (wizard or cleric 9, bard or inquisitor 6) called out as an example.
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4. Nothing states it has to be from a single class, therefore you can.Does the following not indicate that it has to be from a single class?
"You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class."
I'm not sure if I'm just being unnecessarily nitpicky about it, but that seems to suggest a single class, not multiple classes. I'm not entirely convinced one way or the other, and I can't find any official statement on this.
I can attack an enemy.
Does that mean I can only attack one enemy? The English language is a bit unfortunate in some ways, especially when looking at rules from a lawyers perspective.
I can attack an enemy.
Does that mean I can only attack one enemy?
Well, if I gained an ability from my race that says I can use it to attack an enemy, I might make the assumption that it can only be used on a single target. I would hope the text would be clearer and would indicate otherwise. Now we cannot assume that they will include text for every obscure scenario, but I don't think that is the case in this instance. Almost every character who has this trait would like to make use of multiple classes to draw from if that is indeed the case, justifying a need for more clarification.
I guess my point is that the RAW are not clear on whether or not you can take spells from multiple casting classes, and I am trying to be careful in assuming the intent here. Based on what I see in the text, it seems to indicate only a single class in its example. Also, the ability is named Mystic Past Life, not Mystic Past Lives (that's hardly definitive but it seems to indicate the intent of a single class).
Frodo, I would completely agree with you if the text simply said, "You can add spells from other spellcasting classes to the spell list of your current spellcasting class."
I don't think an arcane samsaran can tag patron spells, since those aren't actually on a class spell list.
(Similarly, I don't think you'd be able to tag bloodline spells, domains spells, spirit spells, etc. The actual class spell lists is what determines what you can take with this ability.)
Ah, but Mystic Other Life technically never says it has to be on the spell list. It just says that you can take "add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class" and that they "must be the same type (arcane or divine) as the spellcasting class you're adding them to".
Restoration as cast by a witch with the healing patron is an arcane spell, and the spell does come from the witch class, even if it's not on the spell list, which isn't mentioned as a requirement anyway...
Adding the spell to your spell list is still a pretty big deal for classes like bloodragers and magi who have class features restricted to only spells in their class's spell list.
Overall, it's one of those abilities where your GM has to make the final calls:
1) whether you can take spells from more than one class;
2) whether you can get alchemist 'spells' at all;
3) whether you can take advantage of early access/lower level spells;
4) whether spells from domains/patrons/bloodlines/etc/etc can be accessed.
Any more that I've missed?
For the record, my current GM said yes to 1 & 2, and no to 3 & 4.
Part of the reason for him saying yes to alchemist 'spells' was because I was trying to make a wizard for a group that had no divine casting at all and getting Lesser Restoration/Restoration/Heal would have benefited us all. In the end, I decided to make a cleric.
PS Witches get Heal, but at L7 (and Harm). Alchemists get Heal at L6.
Depending on the campaign power level I would recommended throwing out the summoners list as an option, giving access to dominate monster, maze, greater planar binding to level 11 wizards is disruptive and tends to overshadow the other level 11 characters.