Keeper's Pass - Bandits and Ne'er-do-Wells


Pathfinder Online

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Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

We just wanted to be a group of elves living off the land around our forest. Apparently, that kind of roleplaying is not possible in this game, nor encouraged.

Can you appreciate that? A group of players not with your ideals? Or are you just a bully?

Goblin Squad Member

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You can roleplay that. You just have to find an in character response to bandits plauging your land.

Will you fight, will you pay them off, or will you flee? The choice is yours. Consider it a plot hook, or the start of an adventure.

Goblin Squad Member

Gol Tabomo wrote:
Saiph wrote:

Just have some class, and perhaps people would respect you. That's the moral of the story right?

EDIT:

Maybe Guurzak should give all of Golgotha lessons on being an honorable bandit; he speaks eloquently and then one of your silly-willy, taunting members ruins the progress for everyone. Like sands though an hourglass, these are the days of our lives.

Phy explained that the only instance of taunting (him saying oooh I love murder, or something like that) took place after he had been whispered some pretty awful stuff.

We killed em' and took their stuff. No taunting, no spawn-camping. That's about as honorable as you can get as a bandit.

Sorry, but that's frankly false. Hopefully it will be that way going forward. I personally don't mind the taunting/name calling/terribad behavior as I enjoy PvP but there are players that don't enjoy it. Yet your organization seemingly tries to push players to play the way you all want.

Pick on someone your own size ;)

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Paying them off is never a choice. I am not doing that in real life so I am not doing that in a fantasy game either. Also, this game is limited to a small swath of Golarion. If my elf could move to Kyonin he would.

Goblin Squad Member

What Alexander said. You are absolutely free to roleplay whatever you want. You are not free to roleplay in a vacuum. Your roleplay needs to account for the roleplay of the other players in the game.

There are more options than the ones Alexander offered. You could request or negotiate for the military aid of a friendly nation. You could secretly offer an oath of service to dark powers in return for their forbearance. You could attempt to convince everyone around you that the beauty you bring to the world should be protected and nurtured. There are many, many ways to attack this problem.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Gol Guurzak wrote:

What Alexander said. You are absolutely free to roleplay whatever you want. You are not free to roleplay in a vacuum. Your roleplay needs to account for the roleplay of the other players in the game.

There are more options than the ones Alexander offered. You could request or negotiate for the military aid of a friendly nation. You could secretly offer an oath of service to dark powers in return for their forbearance. You could attempt to convince everyone around you that the beauty you bring to the world should be protected and nurtured. There are many, many ways to attack this problem.

I do not feel free to roleplay the way I want to in this game. I am feeling constricted/bound/cohersed by game mechanics. Unfortunately, I have purchased 19 months of this game. I will not be bullied by sadism of others... that is not a fun game or any game I want to be part of.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

This is just a tactical warzone game then... boring. No better than Nobunga's Ambition (horrible game).

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Oh and the great evil I want coming at me are not other stupid player characters. Where is the dragon that razes fire among all the lands, causing everyone to fight for a common goal, friend/foe alike? That is a MMO I would like to see. A sandbox with purpose/surprises/adventure, not just static PvP junk between waring neighbors. If I wanted that I would just watch the evening news.

Edit: I am not speaking of theme park elements either. I want to see devastation and the rise to peace that takes place in real-time affecting everyone.

Goblin Squad Member

The primary source of conflict and dramatic tension in PFO has always been intended to be other players. If the game you want to play is one of players struggling against NPC foes and environmental challenges, PFO is probably not going to be that game.

Goblin Squad Member

Saiph wrote:
Gol Tabomo wrote:
Saiph wrote:

Just have some class, and perhaps people would respect you. That's the moral of the story right?

EDIT:

Maybe Guurzak should give all of Golgotha lessons on being an honorable bandit; he speaks eloquently and then one of your silly-willy, taunting members ruins the progress for everyone. Like sands though an hourglass, these are the days of our lives.

Phy explained that the only instance of taunting (him saying oooh I love murder, or something like that) took place after he had been whispered some pretty awful stuff.

We killed em' and took their stuff. No taunting, no spawn-camping. That's about as honorable as you can get as a bandit.

Sorry, but that's frankly false. Hopefully it will be that way going forward. I personally don't mind the taunting/name calling/terribad behavior as I enjoy PvP but there are players that don't enjoy it. Yet your organization seemingly tries to push players to play the way you all want.

Pick on someone your own size ;)

Do you have screenshots of taunting? I ask that seriously. Because I personally did not engage in any of it, and didn't see it happen. I have never been a trash talker (in anything) and I don't plan on it. It's pointless. I will say I did log off earlier than the rest of my group, so I admit I may have missed some of it.

We aren't trying to push people to play how we want. As Alex and Guurzak said, they could RP it into their story. It's a pretty common trope. People want to live peacefully off the land and are beset by baddies. They could have called for help from their alliance if they felt outmatched. If we are heavily outnumbered, we are much more likely to flee. Especially if we are already carrying a lot of ill-gotten gains.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Gol Guurzak wrote:
The primary source of conflict and dramatic tension in PFO has always been intended to be other players. If the game you want to play is one of players struggling against NPC foes and environmental challenges, PFO is probably not going to be that game.

Which saddens me for the Pathfinder brand. This is just Kingmaker AP, the worst AP imo.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

I'm done too... is selling accounts a thing?

Goblin Squad Member

Cronge wrote:
I'm done too... is selling accounts a thing?

Yeah, Goblinworks has thus far had a hands off view of account selling. They won't be held responsible for player to player sales, but they don't stop it either.

Goblin Squad Member

Cronge wrote:

We just wanted to be a group of elves living off the land around our forest. Apparently, that kind of roleplaying is not possible in this game, nor encouraged.

Can you appreciate that? A group of players not with your ideals? Or are you just a bully?

I'm still trying to figure out, what is stopping you from doing that?

I agree there are not enough social mechanics and role playing mechanics (animated emotes) to promote this.

But if you want to do this in a completely safe environment, then I'd suggest Lord of the Rings Online.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

This is the second MMO I have ever wanted to play. The first was WoW. Did that for a couple of years and quit. I did beta Elder Scrolls Online... not my game either. I guess I am just a Tabletop kind of guy.

Goblin Squad Member

It does seem there's a fundamental gap in game expectations, then. For me, Kingmaker was easily one of my favorite APs, and it's exactly what I'm looking for in PFO.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Gol Elsworth Sugarfoot wrote:

Erian: I would have liked to continue that chase off the mountain, but didn't want to lose the rep at the time. Next time I know it's you it'll be worth the hit :)

Decius: I would have stuck around a bit longer, but a few people in our party weren't keen on trying to fight so outnumbered after we had died a few times. It seemed a waste of durability. Plus, we'd been chased to a non PvP hex, so we couldn't fight you there. Also, I had been down south for 3 hours trying to start PvP. I mistakenly assumed you would be in coms with your allies and was wondering why no one was coming to the assistance of BWG so I came up to Keeper's to taunt you once your PvP windows opened.

"Outnumbered". I do not think that means what you think that means.

And I, personally, was known to be streaming the PFU lecture during that time.

Goblin Squad Member

KotC - Erian El'ranelen wrote:

I personally think what the game needs on the PvP front is a group that can teach people how to do it well--not from a mechanical advantage perspective but from a good player perspective. This is important long-term as it can seed behavior patterns and acceptance throughout the server, establishing a solid base for moving forward. And I really think Golgotha can be that group.

At times that means looking outside the game to the players, figuring out why they don't seem to be getting some aspect of how the game works, and helping them to see that. I do of course understand some of those players will not accept the help, nor ever be satisfied with anything other than 100% PvP-free options. Folks like that, or those saying Golgotha shouldn't exist, don't get the core game concept, and I'll continue to tell them they are wrong.

Telling PvPers that they need to play a certain way, while at the same time not addressing the issue of certain PvE'rs playing in a way that is not recommended is not a solution.

When gatherers stop gathering solo, and stop making their over encumbrance obvious, they will not be targeted as often (which is already uncommon anyway).

It has already been alluded to here, there is another game about to enter into alpha and it will suck the PvP oriented companies out of this game.

Goblin Squad Member

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Cronge wrote:
This is the second MMO I have ever wanted to play. The first was WoW. Did that for a couple of years and quit. I did beta Elder Scrolls Online... not my game either. I guess I am just a Tabletop kind of guy.

Seriously, try LotRO, it is by far the most RP friendly MMO out there and it is free to play. You can play Elves and pretend it is Pathfinder world. It is not like PFO screams Pathfinder anyway.

Goblin Squad Member

If you are truly upset with the current state of PVP and reputation:

*take a week or two off*

The time before Holdings is the ideal time to take a 'vacation' from PFO. Let yourself decompress; maybe check out some free MMO action or maybe just unplug completely. Then when there is more to the game, log in and re-evaluate.


Cronge wrote:

Oh and the great evil I want coming at me are not other stupid player characters. Where is the dragon that razes fire among all the lands, causing everyone to fight for a common goal, friend/foe alike? That is a MMO I would like to see. A sandbox with purpose/surprises/adventure, not just static PvP junk between waring neighbors. If I wanted that I would just watch the evening news.

Edit: I am not speaking of theme park elements either. I want to see devastation and the rise to peace that takes place in real-time affecting everyone.

Why? What's the difference between being invaded by a barbarian horde, and being invaded by PCs? You want a GM controlled dragon that is a guaranteed victory. Players are not stupid (most of us). We're much better at the game than the AI.

You don't wander out at LvL 1 into the 9th layer of hell and expect to defeat Asmodeus. Treat PvP like an extremely difficult endgame boss that must be trained/planned for and lost to many times before you actually have the satisfaction of beating the game.

Goblin Squad Member

Gol Elsworth Sugarfoot wrote:
What's the difference between being invaded by a barbarian horde, and being invaded by PCs?

What's the difference between a rainstorm soaking the interior of your car when you leave the sunroof open, and another person pissing into your car through the open sunroof?

Yes, getting killed in a PvP game is a lot like sliding down a chute in Chutes and Ladders. Yes, folks should really try to embrace that. But there's a hurdle they have to get over first - that their downfall is at the hands of other human beings. They'll get over that hurdle faster, and hopefully (God, I really hope) stick around and pay Goblinworks to keep making this game, if the folks who kill them make some effort to soften the blow instead of doing things that are known to drive folks away from PvP games.

Goblin Squad Member

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Bluddwolf wrote:

Telling PvPers that they need to play a certain way, while at the same time not addressing the issue of certain PvE'rs playing in a way that is not recommended is not a solution.

When gatherers stop gathering solo, and stop making their over encumbrance obvious, they will not be targeted as often (which is already uncommon anyway).

It has already been alluded to here, there is another game about to enter into alpha and it will suck the PvP oriented companies out of this game.

I absolutely agree--the PvE folks need to be trained that this is how this game works. I believe the PvP folks have the best ability to do that in a meaningful way that really drives the lesson home. I'm not asking the PvP folks to train others in combat/tactics--they can go to PFU for that. I'm asking PvP folks to consider the human factor of this game, the players themselves, and then adopt communication and styles that foster good relationships even when you are looting my husk. I've offered up examples of folks that do that, and I add to that an echo of Guurzak--his RP is certainly something folks can get into and his communication is clear (well, when you can translate the Orcish accent). I see you/Aragon as certainly in the same group as Golgotha--a powerful force that has the potential to drive how the culture of PvP develops

I am working from the premise that PFO aims to be a fundamentally different game from those that have come before. I very seriously doubt it will appeal to hardcore PvP folks or hardcore PvE folks. It's aiming for a middle ground, which could be the perfect blend Savage Grace noted, or it could be a boring mish-mash mediocrity. I firmly believe that we, all the players on the entire spectrum that care at all for the success of the game, are the ones that will make it the former rather than the latter. I think of it this way--we are all in a social contract together, with the agreed upon end goal of enjoying the time we spend together. Every major player, whether on the PvP, PvE, RP, or whatever favored flavor of game, can take up the responsibility to think outside just their own role to the larger vision of PFO. Yes, I certainly support that meaning the PvE people need to consider and support what is required for the PvP folks to enjoy their time.

Goblin Squad Member

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I debated whether I should post this or not, but I’m posting it because I think it’s worth putting out there. It sort of echoes some of what is being said by many here here.

Warning: Beware of Wall of Text.

Cronge wrote:
I'm done too... not my game either. I guess I am just a Tabletop kind of guy.
Bluddwolf wrote:
…there is another game about to enter into alpha and it will suck the PvP oriented companies out of this game.

PFO right now is a square peg no matter who looks at it; TT RPGers or MMO PvPers. These are two totally different market segments with players that have totally different goals and objectives.

I am in the TT RPG group. I’ve been playing TT RPG games for almost 40 years. I had specific expectations of what PFO would be when I first heard about it, and I suspect other TT RPGers had/have similar expectations. And I think those of us who are specifically drawn to the Pathfinder RPG have a more entrenched vision of what an on-line version should be.

I would guess the PvPers who come from games like EVE have a similarly embedded, and intense, expectation of what an MMO should be.

When I first heard of PFO, leading up to the first Kickstarter, it was clear some of my impressions of what it would be were false. I saw a lot of references to EVE. I had never played an MMO before, had never heard of EVE. But, I wanted to know a little more about what PFO might be, so I bought an account for EVE and played for about 6 months. I did this specifically to learn what PFO may be like, since it was clear it would not be what I had originally envisioned. I personally didn’t like EVE. However, I also wasn’t in with a group, so I know I missed out on some aspects of it. But, I learned enough to have a better understanding about what PFO may be, and from what GW had said how it would differ (for the better, in my opinion) from a game like EVE ,so I stayed interested. I can tell you if I hadn’t done that I may be very disheartened about PFO right now like others that have posted to this thread. But, I see it for what it is, I am in PFO with a great group of folks, and I think the game has a lot of potential, so I’ll be sticking with it.

In any case this game is supposed to be something different, and being a part of making it what it will be is interesting to me. Building something form nothing (whether it be an elf haven in the wilderness or a bandit stronghold or a fortress city-state or whatever) also sounds like fun to me.

I think it’s good to have these debates, I think for the most part we all want the game to succeed and want it to get better and better to support our own play styles. I do think the TT RPGers need to come to terms with the fact that PFO won’t be what they expected, and I think the EVE-ish PvPers need to come the terms with the fact that PFO won’t be what they expected, either. I would encourage any TT RPGers who are interested in PFO and who have no MMO experience to go try a fully developed MMO so you can get a better idea of where the PvPers are coming from and where this game may be going (maybe that’s EVE, maybe others have better suggestions). I would also encourage some of those EVE-ish PvPers to perhaps find a good group of folks to go play a couple of sessions of TT Pathfinder (thought that is a more difficult endeavor), because if you do you just might get a better understanding of where those TT RPG folks are coming from.

Either way, the square peg that is PFO needs to draw players from two completely different markets, with different ideals and goals, and I think it’s going to be challenging. Some folks from both camps just aren’t going to like it, so they will leave. Of course my hope is that, in the long run, more stay with it and/or are drawn to it to make it successful.

Goblin Squad Member

KotC - Erian El'ranelen wrote:


I absolutely agree--the PvE folks need to be trained that this is how this game works. I believe the PvP folks have the best ability to do that in a meaningful way that really drives the lesson home.

I am sure that lots of gamers are waiting to be "trained" in their next choice of game.

We should advertize PFO as some sort of "PvP Bootcamp" for PvE folk. That'll get them coming. We can have Ryan shouting "Hard is fun" a couple of times too.

Sorry, I do not have a solution, that sentence just rubbed me the wrong way. :)


No, what's the difference between having your character killed by a robot that was programmed by a human, or your character being killed by a robot directly controlled by a human?

You think of PvP as some miscreant activity that should be outlawed like vandalism.

Goblin Squad Member

I have no stake in this game, but have those in EBA that feel Golgotha is a net negative considered merely marching to their door and showing them the error of their ways by the point of their swords?

Result: More pvp between "non sheep". Less pvp against "Sheeple"

Goblin Squad Member

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Tyncale wrote:
KotC - Erian El'ranelen wrote:


I absolutely agree--the PvE folks need to be trained that this is how this game works. I believe the PvP folks have the best ability to do that in a meaningful way that really drives the lesson home.

I am sure that lots of gamers are waiting to be "trained" in their next choice of game.

We should advertize PFO as some sort of "PvP Bootcamp" for PvE folk. That'll get them coming. We can have Ryan shouting "Hard is fun" a couple of times too.

Sorry, I do not have a solution, that sentence just rubbed me the wrong way. :)

And I'm sure it will rub many the wrong way. But it is the truth of PFO. The risk factor of the game is driven by humans, not AI. No amount of training, reading, planning, or anything else will drive this lesson home more than being out in the wilds and caught by bandits. This is absolutely, fundamentally, a part of this game. And once enough of these folks understand some of these fundamental differences from other games, they'll be better prepared to play in PFO.

Or not. They may take that as their final message that this is not the game for them. I'm never going to spout out, "well fine, we're better off without you!" because in truth I believe everyone can contribute in some way to make the game better. However, I'm also very certain that this game will not appeal to everyone, and that's okay. Indeed, I would hope folks learn this early rather than late so they don't go away with the feeling of wasted time.

What does not have to be part of the game is negative communication that doesn't acknowledge the desire of both players to enjoy their time. And that is what I am advocating. For the "bad guys" in particular, but I do not except other folks from this same responsibility. Trash talking and denigrating PvP folks is no more acceptable than them taunting players.

Charlie George wrote:

I have no stake in this game, but have those in EBA that feel Golgotha is a net negative considered merely marching to their door and showing them the error of their ways by the point of their swords?

Result: More pvp between "non sheep". Less pvp against "Sheeple"

That is certainly a possibility, although I will note that from an in-game perspective the Keepers, in particular, are far more interested in non-aggressive resolutions to disagreements. My advocacy, as a player, that PvP is a necessary part of PFO will not in the least curb my advocacy, as a character, to find solutions to problems without conflict. That is, in fact, how I enjoy the game. It's my PvP and PvE all combined into one.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Charlie George wrote:

I have no stake in this game, but have those in EBA that feel Golgotha is a net negative considered merely marching to their door and showing them the error of their ways by the point of their swords?

Result: More pvp between "non sheep". Less pvp against "Sheeple"

Your stake remains unchanged.

And the gauntlet was thrown quietly, so you might not have noticed. Golgotha will continue to lose one tower per day until/unless their PvP-thirsty players overcome their aversion to fighting and defend their towers during their short window.

I encourage others who believe that Golgotha's PvP players have written checks that their swords can't cash to arrange independent blows at Golgothan holdings to provide them all the consequence-free PvP they can handle, so that they will have no need, reason, or justification to spend hours each day looking for a target that they can handle.


Charlie George wrote:

I have no stake in this game, but have those in EBA that feel Golgotha is a net negative considered merely marching to their door and showing them the error of their ways by the point of their swords?

Result: More pvp between "non sheep". Less pvp against "Sheeple"

I have described Golgotha and EBA as the two kids who are just happy to have found someone they can punch in class that doesn't tattle to the teacher.

There's not nearly as much animosity as other power blocs might hope.

Also, I'm not sure what EBA can do to teach us the error of our ways, if they wanted to. We're to the point where people can go days or a week before having to train, so a siege on Golgotha would be a monumental waste of time.

Towers are irrelevant except to those on the extreme elite edge of specialized training.

We can bank anywhere, so we can hunt and gather anywhere.

And as with all things PvP, everything that limits the EBA also limits our ability to similarly inflict our will on anyone.

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Charlie George wrote:

I have no stake in this game, but have those in EBA that feel Golgotha is a net negative considered merely marching to their door and showing them the error of their ways by the point of their swords?

Result: More pvp between "non sheep". Less pvp against "Sheeple"

Your stake remains unchanged.

And the gauntlet was thrown quietly, so you might not have noticed. Golgotha will continue to lose one tower per day until/unless their PvP-thirsty players overcome their aversion to fighting and defend their towers during their short window.

I encourage others who believe that Golgotha's PvP players have written checks that their swords can't cash to arrange independent blows at Golgothan holdings to provide them all the consequence-free PvP they can handle, so that they will have no need, reason, or justification to spend hours each day looking for a target that they can handle.

That's good to hear. At least i can get back some interesting stories. It might even convince me to start using up my "free" months :)

Edit* Bonus points if you conduct corrective murder while you are there. I am not sure taking towers that are unattended will make a compelling story.

Goblin Squad Member

Gol Elsworth Sugarfoot wrote:
You think of PvP as some miscreant activity that should be outlawed like vandalism.

And this is why we can't have nice things...


DeciusBrutus wrote:
Charlie George wrote:

I have no stake in this game, but have those in EBA that feel Golgotha is a net negative considered merely marching to their door and showing them the error of their ways by the point of their swords?

Result: More pvp between "non sheep". Less pvp against "Sheeple"

Your stake remains unchanged.

And the gauntlet was thrown quietly, so you might not have noticed. Golgotha will continue to lose one tower per day until/unless their PvP-thirsty players overcome their aversion to fighting and defend their towers during their short window.

I encourage others who believe that Golgotha's PvP players have written checks that their swords can't cash to arrange independent blows at Golgothan holdings to provide them all the consequence-free PvP they can handle, so that they will have no need, reason, or justification to spend hours each day looking for a target that they can handle.

We have towers?

Goblin Squad Member

It's much easier for us to just go take someone else's towers than to try to defend ours.

Goblin Squad Member

One of the worse things to happen was to call it Pathfinder Online.

The design docs have little or no relationship to the Table Top Game.

Thus many are confused, when the buy in.

GW on the boards and Blogs said PVE would be low, as that takes lots of money, which they do not have.

The Players are the Content, I wish it was otherwise but that is what we have.

Without a 180 facing and 50 million cash I do not see it happening.

Goblin Squad Member

Hey, I've been following this entertaining thread for the past couple days because I had nothing better to do. I wanted to post this earlier to quell some misconceptions voiced by others in this forum about why I'm leaving the game, but I was barred from posting for 24 hours for being bad. Most of the following, I already posted over at Goblinworks.

I knew coming into this game that PvP was going to be a big part of it; Ryan was totally up front about that when I was looking for a new game. Second, I'm not leaving because of the PvP; that's part of the game. I'm leaving because I came to realize I'm not any good at PvP so have very little chance to prevail in a PvP fight and I don't find it fun to be cannon fodder for PvPers. It may be because I just don't understand the game mechanics and how to make them work for me in PvP; it may be because I'm not a young man anymore and so my reflexes aren't what they used to be; it may be a combination of things. But it is not because of the PvP in the game.

Ryan suggested, among other things, talking to the bandits and making a deal. But in all of the few encounters I've had with bandits, they didn't stand around talking to me before they killed me. Further, how much fun do you think it would be to be that person who has to make a deal with the bandits and beg for his life? Sorry, folks, but that role is not one that I would find entertaining in real life so I definitely won't find it entertaining in a game. Maybe there are some submissive types out there who are entertained by playing the role of the subjected victim; that ain't me.

I apologize to all of you Golgotha folks for the insults I lobbed at you out of anger in game. I understand now that I was misinformed about any non-aggression pact and, quite frankly, what you were doing in game is not only part of the game, but was somewhat clever. And, finally, you guys actually seem to be pretty good guys in real life.

So I'm leaving the game; no big deal, folks. I wish you all well. I just hope you can understand that I'm not leaving because of the PvP.

Goblin Squad Member

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Sounds like an opportunity for an even more entertaining story:

"In response to Golgotha's rampant murder, thievery, and thuggish behavior it has been decided by a portion of the River Kingdoms to take up arms, and fight the infection at the source"

"From this day forth, we will form regular strike teams with the purpose of finding you, whatever hovel you decide to hide in. We will collect names, and we will hunt you with extreme prejudice"

"You don't take value in your towers? Fine, we take retribution in blood just as easily. You will hold nothing, and your battle weary heads will never find comfort. Never again will you rest yourselves atop your ill gotten gains"

"Today we take a stance for retribution, for justice, and for a better River Kingdoms....."

/Cue trumpets
/War Drums

Much Warpaint
Such inspire

Goblin Squad Member

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Gol Tabomo wrote:
It's much easier for us to just go take someone else's towers than to try to defend ours.

If they changed the tower mechanics, where defenders actually count against the offending points, then it is prob worth it to defend them. We get the pvp we want, AND it's not a waste of time (defending may actually be possible)

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Charlie George wrote:

I have no stake in this game, but have those in EBA that feel Golgotha is a net negative considered merely marching to their door and showing them the error of their ways by the point of their swords?

Result: More pvp between "non sheep". Less pvp against "Sheeple"

Your stake remains unchanged.

And the gauntlet was thrown quietly, so you might not have noticed. Golgotha will continue to lose one tower per day until/unless their PvP-thirsty players overcome their aversion to fighting and defend their towers during their short window.

I encourage others who believe that Golgotha's PvP players have written checks that their swords can't cash to arrange independent blows at Golgothan holdings to provide them all the consequence-free PvP they can handle, so that they will have no need, reason, or justification to spend hours each day looking for a target that they can handle.

For me personally, I love this. "Good" doesn't have to mean weak. Don't like what we are doing? Come and make us pay for our actions.

This is exactly the type of "good guy" RP stuff that can make RP-ers / PVP-ers alike have a good time.


Charlie George wrote:

Sounds like an opportunity for an even more entertaining story:

"In response to Golgotha's rampant murder, thievery, and thuggish behavior it has been decided by a portion of the River Kingdoms to take up arms, and fight the infection at the source"

"From this day forth, we will form regular strike teams with the purpose of finding you, whatever hovel you decide to hide in. We will collect names, and we will hunt you with extreme prejudice"

"You don't take value in your towers? Fine, we take retribution in blood just as easily. You will hold nothing, and your battle weary heads will never find comfort. Never again will you rest yourselves atop your ill gotten gains"

"Today we take a stance for retribution, for justice, and for a better River Kingdoms....."

/Cue trumpets
/War Drums

Much Warpaint
Such inspire

They would have to develop a level of cohesion and coordination heretofore unseen.

I've stopped loitering and waiting over an hour for the zerg to finally form up.

I do my thing, and move along.

Some of my mates seem to enjoy being farmed when the zerg finally shows up. 8 vs. 17 sounds fun to them and admittedly my mates *do* punch above their weight class.

But me? I'm over waiting for and fighting the zerg.

There may be cases where battling the zerg is unavoidable due to some particular goal, but USUALLY if anyone's quarrel is with *me* they're going to have to learn to be fast and fluid, they're going to need intel, and they won't be able to rely on me waiting one, two, or even three hours for the zerg to form up.

I may be the worst PvPer in the land, and they do have some capable individuals, but their Standard Operating Procedure isn't going to get it done.

Goblin Squad Member

Savage Grace wrote:


I may be the worst PvPer in the land, and they do have some capable individuals, but their Standard Operating Procedure isn't going to get it done.

If that is true, it isn't something unavoidable. Tactics don't exist in a vacuum. If they need to up their response times then the best way to practice that is by hunting down what they consider to be a huge game detriment.

Win/Win

Would read again.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.
DeciusBrutus wrote:
Charlie George wrote:

I have no stake in this game, but have those in EBA that feel Golgotha is a net negative considered merely marching to their door and showing them the error of their ways by the point of their swords?

Result: More pvp between "non sheep". Less pvp against "Sheeple"

Your stake remains unchanged.

And the gauntlet was thrown quietly, so you might not have noticed. Golgotha will continue to lose one tower per day until/unless their PvP-thirsty players overcome their aversion to fighting and defend their towers during their short window.

I encourage others who believe that Golgotha's PvP players have written checks that their swords can't cash to arrange independent blows at Golgothan holdings to provide them all the consequence-free PvP they can handle, so that they will have no need, reason, or justification to spend hours each day looking for a target that they can handle.

Oh no, our towers. I take it that our deal with TSV is off then?


Charlie George wrote:
Savage Grace wrote:


I may be the worst PvPer in the land, and they do have some capable individuals, but their Standard Operating Procedure isn't going to get it done.

If that is true, it isn't something unavoidable. Tactics don't exist in a vacuum. If they need to up their response times then the best way to practice that is by hunting down what they consider to be a huge game detriment.

Win/Win

Would read again.

People hate change, and I'm probably not worth it to them.

Goblin Squad Member

Savage Grace wrote:
Charlie George wrote:
Savage Grace wrote:


I may be the worst PvPer in the land, and they do have some capable individuals, but their Standard Operating Procedure isn't going to get it done.

If that is true, it isn't something unavoidable. Tactics don't exist in a vacuum. If they need to up their response times then the best way to practice that is by hunting down what they consider to be a huge game detriment.

Win/Win

Would read again.

People hate change, and I'm probably not worth it to them.

I sincerely hope they prove you wrong. If it honestly takes hours for a zerg response team then I really don't have to speculate why Golgotha has moved to mobile resource node hunt nights.

Honestly I am surprised it hasn't just become Murder Mondays.

Goblin Squad Member

Okay, so now I'm confused again (I know, not a hard thing perhaps). If the Golgothans are looking for meaningful PvP supported by the mechanics of the game, wouldn't this be exactly what is needed? I know the towers themselves are largely meaningless at present, but if this is about having a good fight then it's at least that. Right?


KotC - Erian El'ranelen wrote:
Okay, so now I'm confused again (I know, not a hard thing perhaps). If the Golgothans are looking for meaningful PvP supported by the mechanics of the game, wouldn't this be exactly what is needed? I know the towers themselves are largely meaningless at present, but if this is about having a good fight then it's at least that. Right?

and it just might happen.

But I don't feel bound to play anyone's reindeer games on their terms.

I may or may not show. Heck, I don't even know what our PvP window is anymore. Typically it was set for Eastern Time prime time while I'm still at work. If that's *still* the case *and* we have a short window, it could be over before I finish this post from my office.

There's nothing in my training plan on any of my characters that can't be achieved without towers.

But targets in open PvP hexes can be fun. I'm not totally against it.

Will any of them be carrying 8 spells? ;-)

I simply reserve the right to consider irrelevant towers... irrelevant.

But also remember you're getting one person's opinion before he gets on comms and his friends talk him into something stupid. :-)

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You guys get so off topic sometimes. Where did you get the idea that all "good" aligned players are scared of you silly evildoers? For example, I have died zero times to any evil player whilst slaying many; I'm not afraid.

The conversation is focused on you killing and farming people that have no interest and/or experience in PvP; these are the ones you seem actually able to kill. For example, my 60+ year old father that Golgotha killed, then killed again, and again... And again. In less than 8 minutes. Perhaps next time you will have the decency to, hmm, not do that? Not a good look.

Goblin Squad Member

KotC - Erian El'ranelen wrote:
Okay, so now I'm confused again (I know, not a hard thing perhaps). If the Golgothans are looking for meaningful PvP supported by the mechanics of the game, wouldn't this be exactly what is needed? I know the towers themselves are largely meaningless at present, but if this is about having a good fight then it's at least that. Right?

I don't know if you have to even bother trying to make sense of it. If taking undefended towers doesn't create the intended effect then find the outlet that you believe will create the intended result.

Forum appeals have certainly been shown to fail, if tower capping is also shown to fail then hit them where it hurts.

If they run, chase them. If they hide, find them.

Saiph wrote:

You guys get so off topic sometimes. Where did you get the idea that all "good" aligned players are scared of you silly evildoers? For example, I have died zero times to any evil player whilst slaying many; I'm not afraid.

The conversation is focused on you killing and farming people that have no interest and/or experience in PvP; these are the ones you seem actually able to kill. For example, my 60+ year old father that Golgotha killed, then killed again, and again... And again. In less than 8 minutes. Perhaps next time you will have the decency to, hmm, not do that? Not a good look.

If this is true I certainly wouldn't stand for it. I would be calling for people to form up and take Golgotha out wherever they are at.

Then I would post videos and propaganda memes. I would make sure they were removed, demoralized, and crushed. I would certainly have good reason, and I would rest easy knowing that the task is essentially trivial.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Christ, you people are good at stiring up drama.

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