Pathfinder Forums Memes that Grind Your Gears

[BigNorseWolf]

Ok, now tell me how it's

TarkXT wrote:

why it's arguably more important to you [a caster] than it is for a melee character.

Brackets mine

That was the claim I had a problem with. Thats the metric I'm using for important. That's what you've been ignoring the entire time.

A caster can still hit half the party from the "wrong" spot. Melee can't hit anyone.

Half of the map is the "right" spot for a caster. A handful of squares are useful to melee, and even fewer are optimal. That gives those few squares more particular value" to melee than the half of the room the caster can occupy.

A caster can usually five foot step out of any square that they're in to avoid the concentration check, rendering all squares equal and thus no square "of any particular value"

A caster can make a concentration check from any square, and will probably still have a spell go off. What square he's in is thus a convenience to avoid a check. To melee its a hard requirement. Which square he does it from has no particular value.

A caster that has to move and cast a spell loses nothing. Melee that has to move and cast a spell loses their full attack.

A caster is in more or less the same amount of danger no matter what square they start the round in. Melee has to watch out for flank sandwiches.

And playing degrees of separation with synonyms just gets you to Kevin Bacon.

[TriOmegaZero]

Yesterday's game highlighted BNW's point perfectly.

The party was at the entrance to the final battle, with rope bridges snaking their way to the BBEG.

My oracle, the witch, and the sorcerer didn't need to move to engage the enemy or buff the party.

The party paladins never made it to the BBEG before our spells dealt with them.

[TarkXT]

I have a response but...did a bunch of posts just get deleted?

[Liz Courts]

TarkXT wrote:

I have a response but...did a bunch of posts just get deleted?

After reconsideration, they've been restored.

But as a reminder, calling another group's playstyle stupid, boring, ignorant, or [pick a negative adjective] is not called for. What works for one group may not work for you and yours. Please keep that in mind.

[Muad'Dib]

Rynjin wrote:

So your objection is that the analogy isn't perfect?

No analogy is perfect.

A good analogy is like a boxer with a hungry look, the kind you get from not eating for a while.

[Petty Alchemy]

Muad'Dib wrote:

Rynjin wrote:

So your objection is that the analogy isn't perfect?

No analogy is perfect.

A good analogy is like a boxer with a hungry look, the kind you get from not eating for a while.

A good analogy is like a metaphor, sometimes mistaken for a simile!

[Muad'Dib]

The analogy was as perfect as something that was really really good.

I better stop with the bad jokes before Liz bans me for thread derailment. Sorry I get bored and ruin threads, and I know that grinds some people gears.

[thegreenteagamer]

Muad'Dib wrote:

The analogy was as perfect as something that was really really good.

I better stop with the bad jokes before Liz bans me for thread derailment. Sorry I get bored and ruin threads, and I know that grinds some people gears.

Well done sir! Circling back to the original topic while slyly poking people for the derail by making it look like you yourself did such, and at the same time backhandedly questioning one set of deletions and not another...all in three sentences? My goodness!

Do you take students? I believe I have a lot to learn.

I think if you ever join the tea gamers, you've earned white tea, precursor to green and sign of Chinese royalty.

[Goth Guru]

wraithstrike wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

TarkXT wrote:

So really what you're saying is that positioning is easy for you.

But that's not the same as saying it's not the most important thing.

If you don't have a valid target, you don't have a valid target. That you can easily rectify that says nothing about the importance of getting to the point of having that valid target only the skill and capability of the player to ensure they do.

If its so easily rectified (as i think it is) why does the player need any skill or capability?It doesn't need to be exact, the player doesn't need to be good at it, and more importantly the character doesn't need to spend resources being good at it. Thats why I say its not important for a caster.

There have been many times someone has wanted to cast haste on the entire party, but had to move to get it done. Another issue is when two people that want haste are too far apart. Short range spells can also have a target that is too far away.

You may or may not have an easy fix, by moving into a better position, but that does not make it "not important".

If you really think this is true put your archers and casters up front, and never change position for a few combats.

All of the rooms in the prepackaged adventure paths I've found have no way to run unless the whole party enters the room en mass. If a fighter said "I charge 30 feet ahead of the rest of the party!" he or she would run smack into a wall a few times, when they weren't tripping over tables.

[TarkXT]

So I've considered an appropriate response and decided I need to be damn thorough since I have to explain the concept of positioning and how it relates to decision making.

So yeah kind of long. So it'll be a bit.

[Ninja-Assassin]

captain yesterday wrote:

It really grinds my gears this post wasn't favorite'd more :-)

Edit: It also grinds them that the one two posts below it wasn't favorite'd at all:-(

unless i'm really not funny, then i take all this back:-)

Edit (the sequel): also when people constantly edit and add on to a previous post after a bunch of people have responded to the first unedited and thus obsolete post:-)

Edit (With a vengeance!!): Also when people add edits just to put the word Smurf in it:-D

Edit (The Phantom Menace): or when they do it just because they can, or to add on crap that didn't need to be there, and probably shouldn't have.....

Edit: (Hayden Christenson half-assed smolder-thon) also when people go that far for a stupid f&$+ing Star Wars joke:-D

Hey! That's my JOB!

EDIT: You don't deprive a man person of his JOB!

EDIT 2: Arg! I've been Smurf'd!

EDIT 3: This is ruining my image!

EDIT 4:

TarkXT wrote:

So I've considered an appropriate response and decided I need to be damn thorough since I have to explain the concept of positioning and how it relates to decision making.

So yeah kind of long. So it'll be a bit.

... on that other thread you linked that one time?

[captain yesterday]

You're Hayden Christensen!!

smurf-tastic!!...... stay right here i know someone that wants to punch you in the face for ruining Darth Vader:-D

[The Green Tea Gamer]

Inspired by my "Real" alignment thread:

When someone reads only the introduction to a thread and then posts a complaint that is almost exactly the same complaint as has already been registered and responded to in the thread itself...which they would've known had they bothered to read more than the first post.

I realize I may be committing that exact offense right now, but, a) I've actually read all of this and participated in a good deal of it, and b) sometimes most of the time people are guilty of the things that annoy them most about others. It doesn't make those behaviors any less annoying, it just makes them slightly more justified.

Also I don't like people who have to turn everything into something serious, and can't just let loose and have fun once in a while...But that's not really a forum thing as it is a problem with tight @$$es in general.

[captain yesterday]

Chickens,

Ever since they found out they were genetically T-Rex's it's buk-buk-buk-Bwak! this and "go ahead eat my eggs a~@%#%$, your time is coming b$@%~es! No f~%%ing mercy!" that.

It's really my fault, I guess I should've been more suspicious when they arrived in the middle of the night... in the field behind the house .in a crashed saucer... Also don't remember ordering talking chickens... but hey, the craft said Amazon so....

[LazarX]

137ben wrote:

One that's been bugging me lately is when people write 'core' in all caps. I think the first time I saw it was in the title of a pbp more than a year ago, which was called something like

"Keep on the Borderlands in Greyhawk Pathfinder CORE"

Really, the fact that it is a well-known (ish) module in Greyhawk seems like a more important thing to emphasize than that it is CORE.

It's gotten worse more recently among PFS players, it seems, but all-caps-core was around long before that.

It's rather important in PFS. Table reporting can screw up if players don't realize that it's CORE play.

[Serghar Cromwell]

Lately I've started to find the phrase "baked in" really grating, since I must have read it about two dozen times in the Unchained monk thread.

[Goth Guru]

captain yesterday wrote:

Chickens,

Ever since they found out they were genetically T-Rex's it's buk-buk-buk-Bwak! this and "go ahead eat my eggs a~+*!!!, your time is coming b$#~@es! No f+*#ing mercy!" that.

It's really my fault, I guess I should've been more suspicious when they arrived in the middle of the night... in the field behind the house .in a crashed saucer... Also don't remember ordering talking chickens... but hey, the craft said Amazon so....

Well Colonel Sanders is back, so invite him over.

If chickens are so special, why aren't they allowed as familiars?

[captain yesterday]

DMGMOPcP threads, PC, NPC, GMPC, OPP... yeah you know me.

Doesn't matter how good the intentions (Lol! Good intentions...) They all devolve into heated arguments over who has the superior use or knowledge of three to four letter acronyms.

When really it doesn't matter, the only people that f++$ it up is someone else, and really aren't we all just Smurfs in the wind....

[captain yesterday]

Also stream of thoughts posts that don't make a lick of sense, much less on-topic, and then they just kind of end it with a "well, that's my two cents" like pennies have actual value....

.... And don't get me started on people that find any f@!&ing way to drop a smurf in there, f%~+ing a~#$*&# s@#!heads is what they are!

.... wait a minute.....

[Admiral Day-Before-Yesterday]

Anything Captain Yesterday says.

Meta jokes that are so meta they reference their own meta-ness.

One-use parody aliases. Come on people, stretch those jokes out! There's got to be at least four or five ways you can drop that joke for the betterment of forum-kind. I think I've exercised the Admiral here at least half a dozen times, and he was funny at most twice, but dangit if I'm not trying.

[Jaelithe]

You could try Fleet Admiral Two Days Ago.

[Admiral Day-Before-Yesterday]

I had considered Joint Chief of Staff About-a-Week-Back.

Someone also made Lieutenant Today and referenced Sergant Tomorrow (I think in this thread, actually) but now I'm wondering if we're crossing the line from Naval to Army ranks. I kind of set precident with Admiral instead of General.

Please note, the captain is actually a cool guy, this is just a thing we do, teasing one another with awful parody aliases. Although almost everything he says as RedBullAndCokeGamer makes me laugh, because I've met those guys, and it's legit.

[captain yesterday]

Would it help to know its a super hero name :-)

[Captain Yesterday's Phone]

Admiral Day-Before-Yesterday wrote:

Anything Captain Yesterday says.

yeah don't get me started on that a@+$@#@, he just better hope I don't decide to write a book...

[thegreenteagamer]

captain yesterday wrote:

Would it help to know its a super hero name :-)

Yes, yes, we've gone over that before, but for the purpose of establishing hierarchy we need to know from where it was originated. Fry's alter-ego is probably based on Captain America, who was army based, but when I think Captains in Pathfinder, I think pirates, so we're talking navy most likely.

Amazing the hair splitting pedantry that goes into proper satire.

[Goth Guru]

Monty Python raised self satire to a fine art. Some sketches are just them satirizing each other. But some people don't get Monty Python and thus should not attempt satire.

When a white guy fails at rap, someone should say to them, "You probably don't understand Monty Python either."

[wraithstrike]

The reversal

This is when someone is passive aggressive or uses a veiled insult. When called out on the issue they try to play the victim acting as if they have no idea what you are talking about.

[BigDTBone]

wraithstrike wrote:

The reversal

This is when someone is passive aggressive or uses a veiled insult. When called out on the issue they try to play the victim acting as if they have no idea what you are talking about.

PA Guy - "Ugh, it smells like surrendering fois-gras in here."

R Dude - "What do you have against the French?!"

PA Guy - "What are you talking about? I didn't say anything about the French. If you read what I wrote and thought French then YOU are the racist! RACIST!!"

Classic Tolkien Defense.

[thejeff]

Random attacks on Tolkien grind my gears.

[Kirth Gersen]

BigDTBone wrote:

Classic Tolkien Defense.

I tried to Google this and failed to find anything resembling a logical fallacy definition.

[thejeff]

Kirth Gersen wrote:

BigDTBone wrote:

Classic Tolkien Defense.

I tried to Google this and failed to find anything resembling a logical fallacy definition.

I've got no idea what he meant by it.

Reminded me of the random attacks on Tolkien, but no idea if it was supposed to be or not.

[captain yesterday]

That's because he made it up :-)

Which grinds my gears >:[>

[Zhangar]

I think it's referencing Tolkien's denial that Saruman, Sauron, etc. were stand-ins for anything in the modern world.

Edit: Or go with BigTDBone's clarification.

[BigDTBone]

Kirth Gersen wrote:

BigDTBone wrote:

Classic Tolkien Defense.

I tried to Google this and failed to find anything resembling a logical fallacy definition.

In the face of people suggesting that Tolkien was a racist due to his depiction of Orcs in his novels Tolkien responded, [paraphrase] "I wrote actual honest-to-goodness monsters in my novels, not humans who look different, not humans with black skin, but actual monsters. If you read my books and see black people then maybe I'm not the racist here."

[Kalindlara]

Yeah, the professor had a pretty deep hate-on for allegory. ^_^

[Kirth Gersen]

Doesn't increase my liking for him any.
Sorry, thejeff and 6 others (at least it wasn't totally random!)

[TarkXT]

Kalindlara wrote:

Yeah, the professor had a pretty deep hate-on for allegory. ^_^

People look for allegory in everything.

Sir Pratchett found it puzzling people found discworld dwarves to be an allegory for Jewish people. Up to and including Jewish people.

[Jaelithe]

And, of course, if you deny it, you're either a liar or did it unconsciously.

At that point, the word "whatever" becomes a legitimate response.

[Kobold Catgirl]

BigDTBone wrote:

Kirth Gersen wrote:

BigDTBone wrote:

Classic Tolkien Defense.

I tried to Google this and failed to find anything resembling a logical fallacy definition.

In the face of people suggesting that Tolkien was a racist due to his depiction of Orcs in his novels Tolkien responded, [paraphrase] "I wrote actual honest-to-goodness monsters in my novels, not humans who look different, not humans with black skin, but actual monsters. If you read my books and see black people then maybe I'm not the racist here."

He also deliberately chose Turkey as the culture to model the orcish language/naming style after. And made all the black humans evil.

*cough*

[thejeff]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

BigDTBone wrote:

Kirth Gersen wrote:

BigDTBone wrote:

Classic Tolkien Defense.

I tried to Google this and failed to find anything resembling a logical fallacy definition.

In the face of people suggesting that Tolkien was a racist due to his depiction of Orcs in his novels Tolkien responded, [paraphrase] "I wrote actual honest-to-goodness monsters in my novels, not humans who look different, not humans with black skin, but actual monsters. If you read my books and see black people then maybe I'm not the racist here."

He also deliberately chose Turkey as the culture to model the orcish language/naming style after. And made all the black humans evil.

*cough*

That, I think is a better argument for Tolkien's racism than Orcs are.

And really, if Tolkien didn't have some racism in him it'd be a miracle. He was born in 1892 in what became South Africa. I'd say he turned out pretty well.

[Jaelithe]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

BigDTBone wrote:

Kirth Gersen wrote:

BigDTBone wrote:

Classic Tolkien Defense.

I tried to Google this and failed to find anything resembling a logical fallacy definition.

In the face of people suggesting that Tolkien was a racist due to his depiction of Orcs in his novels Tolkien responded, [paraphrase] "I wrote actual honest-to-goodness monsters in my novels, not humans who look different, not humans with black skin, but actual monsters. If you read my books and see black people then maybe I'm not the racist here."

He also deliberately chose Turkey as the culture to model the orcish language/naming style after. And made all the black humans evil.

*cough*

He also choose to make the Dwarvish language sound like Hebrew, and depicted them as both noble and base, depending on the situation and individuals. Interesting to note that the Dwarves are the only Free People of Middle Earth not created directly by Illuvatar, but the Vala Aule, and adopted into existence—the chosen people of God, as it were. They tend to be greedy and excellent craftsmen. The comparison isn't lost on many. Tolkien, I believe, openly admits to it.

A heroic adventure novel doesn't spend a lot of time portraying how noble and courageous the enemy is. They're demonized ... and when, like the orcs, they're arguably demon-touched (as orcs are perversions of elves), it makes a certain amount of sense.

I hardly think falling under the sway of a supernatural evil like Sauron, demonstrably the greatest power in Middle-Earth in that period and one of the top three for two ages previous, means either that the Haradrim are irrevocably evil or that Tolkien considered them such. He also wrote the Corsairs of Umbar, who were, if I'm not mistaken, evil white guys—evil white guys called, ironically enough, Black Numenoreans.

Sam (whom he has stated is the book's true hero) sees a dead Haradrim and wonders whether he was truly evil, or simply deceived and coerced by Sauron into making war on Gondor ... and is clearly inclined to think the latter. To be honest, considering that Tolkien makes clear the Haradrim are subject peoples of the Numenoreans during their descent into darkness, they probably have quite a few (in their minds) just casi belli. Gondor wins most of the wars, and we know by whom history is written.

Tolkien never describes the people of Harad as having any physical feature that might be stereotypically associated with sub-Saharan Africa. The closest he comes is to say their hair is plait, their faces painted and their ornaments of gold.

One wonders if Lewis intentionally chose to employ the word Aslan (closely related to the Turkish for "lion," arslan) as a commentary on what you pointed out, Kobold Cleaver. TLtWatW was completed and published before TLotR, but the latter must have been begun long before, and Lewis was privy to its development due to his membership in The Inklings.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Tolkien displayed a lot of "anti-anti-Semetism" during the rise of the Nazi Party in Germany, and his attitude towards dwarves really improved a lot between "dwarves are sometimes nice and sometimes greedy bastards, but never heroes" The Hobbit and "Forty-three!" Lord of the Rings.

[thejeff]

Because it's a great response

Quote:

“If I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people,” wrote Tolkien in an oft-quoted draft. He went on to call Nazi race doctrine “wholly pernicious and unscientific.”

[Kobold Catgirl]

Jaelithe wrote:

I hardly think falling under the sway of a supernatural evil like Sauron, demonstrably the greatest power in Middle-Earth in that period and one of the top three for two ages previous, means either that the Haradrim are irrevocably evil or that Tolkien considered them such.

...

Sam (whom he has stated is the book's true hero) sees a dead Haradrim and wonders whether he was truly evil, or simply deceived and coerced by Sauron into making war on Gondor ... and is clearly inclined to think the latter.

Then the Haradrim are, at best, tools of greater, more civilized powers. What matters is not in the footnotes, but how the characters are actually portrayed. I think I read a pulp magazine story from the 60s with a similar presence. Hint: it was about the blood diamond business.

:P

[Kthulhu]

thejeff wrote:

He was born in ... what became South Africa.

I was completely unaware of this. o.O

[Jaelithe]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Jaelithe wrote:

I hardly think falling under the sway of a supernatural evil like Sauron, demonstrably the greatest power in Middle-Earth in that period and one of the top three for two ages previous, means either that the Haradrim are irrevocably evil or that Tolkien considered them such.

...

Sam (whom he has stated is the book's true hero) sees a dead Haradrim and wonders whether he was truly evil, or simply deceived and coerced by Sauron into making war on Gondor ... and is clearly inclined to think the latter.

Then the Haradrim are, at best, tools of greater, more civilized powers. What matters is not in the footnotes, but how the characters are actually portrayed. I think I read a pulp magazine story from the 60s with a similar presence. Hint: it was about the blood diamond business.

:P

And what of the swarthy—the only word ever used to describe the Haradrim, if I'm not mistaken—men of the coastlands, who, despite knowing the odds, march to the defense of Minas Tirith and Gondor? They could easily have not shown up or instead waited and joined with the Haradrim. Instead they did their duty. But of course, even though they display courage and honor, it's only as "tools of greater, more civilized powers," right?

The Haradrim are not portrayed much if at all, Kobold Cleaver. They're enemies on the battlefield, not caricatures of evil. About the only thing we hear about them in description of character is below:

"But the men of Rhun and Harad, Easterling and Southron, saw the ruin of their war and the great majesty and glory of the Captains of the West. And those that were deepest and longest in evil servitude [note servants of evil, not inherently evil], hating the West, and yet were men proud and bold, in their turn now gathered themselves for a last stand of desperate battle."

Hardly a description of a people held in contempt.

What of the Dunlendings, also darker-skinned, and allies to Gondor?

There are evil white-skinned and evil dark-skinned characters, good white-skinned and good dark-skinned characters, in Tolkien's writing.

[137ben]

thejeff wrote:

That, I think is a better argument for Tolkien's racism than Orcs are.

And really, if Tolkien didn't have some racism in him it'd be a miracle. He was born in 1892 in what became South Africa. I'd say he turned out pretty well.

Yes, this one. While not exactly a forum meme, it does Grind my Gears when people insist that non-allegorical things are somehow allegorical...

At the same time, it Grinds my Gears when people insist on rewriting history just to appreciate old works of art.
Tolkien lived in a different time. He had views on race, gender, and sexual orientation closer to the norm of his time than to ours.

That doesn't mean his stories can't be appreciated. You can enjoy a work of fiction without agreeing with the beliefs of the author. I like The Odyssey. I'm not going to pretend that the author (well, authors, since it was likely written by multiple authors) were not horrifically sexist. That's not some sub-textual interpretation: the plain text of the Odyssey makes it VERY clear what the authors thought of women. It's still a good story (IMO).

The supposed racism in Tolkien works, even if it's there, is very mild compared to ancient works of fiction. I happen not to be a Tolkien fan, but that has nothing to do with whether or not orcs correspond to a real group of people

[Durngrun Stonebreaker]

It really grinds my gears that the Stupid, Stupid Threads thread didn't take off.

[thegreenteagamer]

Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:

It really grinds my gears that the Stupid, Stupid Threads thread didn't take off.

Meh, if you really cared you would've linked it, so those of us mildly curious but not interested enough to search it out might have glanced at it. As it is...Meh.

[HyperMissingno]

Speaking of links it grinds my gears when I see people improperly link thins on this site. There's a formatting option in the freaking textbox people, click on the show button!