I actually have two questsions:
#1 - Do I have to Draw a Metamagic Rod to use it, or can I just hold/touch it?
#2 - How can I use a metamagic rod if I'm fighting with a 2h weapon or TWF some other 2 weapons, not the rods?
You need to be holding it. Touching it is insufficient.
To cast spells with it you need one hand free for the spell (or a spell without somatic components). And you need one hand to hold the rod. That means sheathing/dropping anything else you have in your hands before you can do so.
Metamagic rods can be quite inconvenient for folks who rely on weapons and shields. If you're really determined to use a rod without dropping your weapon you could try the widely despised and previously nerfed weapon cord. That way you can hold the rod in one hand while the weapon dangles from the other. At least per PFS you should be able to cast spells with the hand the weapon dangles from.
You could also try holding the rod in the hand the weapon dangles from, but that might lead to questions about whether the rod in question is a weapon since some rods are. Making sure your rod is a weapon would probably let you benefit from Quick Draw even if the phrase "your rod is a weapon" makes me think of Hanzo the Razor.
But if we have a free hand, can we just hold the rod by the "handle" to use it's metamagic power, as if holding a weapon but not drawing it yet, or do we Really Have to draw it and wave it around like a big wand?
The rules seem to say we only need to hold it, and if we're not going to use it like a weapon, maybe there's no need to draw it if there's also no need to swing it.
I don't think there's a rule for holding sheathed items. The rules don't say no, but they also don't say yes. I'd expect most DMs to say no though.
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I don't see how you would interpret holding to mean anything other than drawn within the context of the game rules. Drawing items is a major part of pathfinder's action economy and "holding" items like rods, wands or staves without drawing them would be a significant and completely unnecessary boost to casters.
Yes, it sucks for battle-casters who use weapons (I play them frequently) but the alternative is having wizards running their hands along a bandoleer of magic sticks switching from item to item as a free action.
Madness I tell you!
Metamagic rods can be quite inconvenient for folks who rely on weapons and shields. If you're really determined to use a rod without dropping your weapon you could try the widely despised and previously nerfed weapon cord. That way you can hold the rod in one hand while the weapon dangles from the other. At least per PFS you should be able to cast spells with the hand the weapon dangles from.
You could also try holding the rod in the hand the weapon dangles from, but that might lead to questions about whether the rod in question is a weapon since some rods are. Making sure your rod is a weapon would probably let you benefit from Quick Draw even if the phrase "your rod is a weapon" makes me think of Hanzo the Razor.
A glove of storing works well to offset this issue rather nicely. Gloves of storing are almost mandatory for any build that wants to make use of drawn items such as rods, wands etc.
But if we have a free hand, can we just hold the rod by the "handle" to use it's metamagic power, as if holding a weapon but not drawing it yet, or do we Really Have to draw it and wave it around like a big wand?
The rules seem to say we only need to hold it, and if we're not going to use it like a weapon, maybe there's no need to draw it if there's also no need to swing it.
They mean hold it out of its storing area, not just wrap your fingers around it, while it is still being stored.
Yeah, I know they probably meant to hold it "like THIS". I'm just tring to find a way to use them while TWF. I mean, it doesn't hurt to ask, right? Who knows, maybe somebody knew something I didn't.
I don't really like the idea of making my weapons as also the Rods, but that seems to be the easiest way to go. Either that or geting a tail to hold the rod, or something like a Hand of the Mage amulet. I really wanted to be able to hold a few things around me psychokinetically, or to have a couple of mage/spectral hands to do so.
How much would it cost to add the metamagic property of a rod to any weapon? Nothing, since Rods are already weapons? Can I enchant a Rod to +10 like any other metal pipe?
Not all rods are weapons. They are by default not weapons, but the ones that are called out as being sturdy enough can be used as weapons, and since they are not actually weapons they can not be enchanted as such.
In addition the game intends to force you to choose what to have in your hand. Of course nothing wrong with trying to get around it, but it will cost you in feats or gold. I prefer the gloves of storing personally.
I guess if you cast mage hand it could hold the wand, but mage hand is not a permanent spell, and casting it in every combat will actually hurt more than help.
As for adding the metamagic to an actual weapon that is up to the GM since that is a custom item. There is no metamagic enhancement. I would expect to be charged 150% of the rod price since it is an added ability outside of the scope of normal weapon.
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My trick is to use a rod as the actual handle of a weapon. Build it right in. Some weapons it isn't feasible, but for most it works just fine.
You could take the haft for any hammer, axe, flail or morningstar, cast Masterwork Transformation on it, then put the weapon part back on.
You could use a Rod as the handle of a shield.
You could attach two rods by a chain and make Nunchaku.
How about a Rod worked into the stock or grip of a musket, bow, or crossbow?
With Sovereign Glue you could attach rods end to end and make a staff or spear. Based on the description of the glue, they basically become one solid thing at that point but would still count as separate objects. Just grab the appropriate part of your new "staff-rod" when you want to use a particular rod. Stick a pointy end on it and it's a spear or polearm.
Another good trick is to hand rods by short chains from your belt. Then just reach down and grab the one you want (treat as drawing a weapon, or as a weapon cord move action, or whatever) then just drop it when you're done.
I don't see how you would interpret holding to mean anything other than drawn within the context of the game rules. Drawing items is a major part of pathfinder's action economy and "holding" items like rods, wands or staves without drawing them would be a significant and completely unnecessary boost to casters.
Yes, it sucks for battle-casters who use weapons (I play them frequently) but the alternative is having wizards running their hands along a bandoleer of magic sticks switching from item to item as a free action.
Madness I tell you!
This.
I once made a spell that allowed a hand to function as up to 7 virtual hands that could hold on to stuff in the possesion of the caster. Level 6 one hand pr 3 caster levels. V,S,F(a platinum ring Shapeshifter like seven tentacles with snake heads worth 5000 gp) 10 minutter/level.
Somthing like that.
Edit: it looks a little on the powerfull side when i look at it today pehaps change it to 1 round/ level duration.
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I don't see how you would interpret holding to mean anything other than drawn within the context of the game rules. Drawing items is a major part of pathfinder's action economy and "holding" items like rods, wands or staves without drawing them would be a significant and completely unnecessary boost to casters.
Yes, it sucks for battle-casters who use weapons (I play them frequently) but the alternative is having wizards running their hands along a bandoleer of magic sticks switching from item to item as a free action.
Madness I tell you!
I'd have to say it would work quite well, they've got clear (or at least more clear) definitions for wielding and manipulating. If they meant drawn they would have used one of those two words.
Ha! Ironically, your natural rod is something you (or she) can just hold and not draw to use. ^^
It just says hold, not wield or brandish or the like that would require more effort. All my casters end up designing rod harnesses so they can free action shift a free hand to one while casting with the other. Still might need a storing glove to to free up the weapon hand unless the spell has no somatics..
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Keeping in mind that Paizo is not known for its studiously precise language and Paizo employees have encouraged use of common sense when reading rules:
Wielding generally refers to weapons, which rods are not by default. It is therefore understandable that this term was not used when describing rods.
"Manipulate an item" is its own move action; saying that the rod needed to be manipulated to be used might imply an additional move action cost at the time it was activated. In contrast, holding a (drawn) rod allows you to take the action to prepare the rod well before use, even before combat. Therefore if the designers intend the item to simply be in hand (drawn) "manipulate" is not an improvement in the wording.
I'm not aware of nor can I find a consistent usage for "brandish." It seems to be used exclusively for holy symbols.
Use of "holding" for magic casty sticks:
To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area.
To activate a staff, a character must hold it forth in at least one hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures).
Unless noted otherwise, you must be holding a rod to use its abilities .
The rod description is the weakest of the three but I don't see how you can hold a wand and point it, or hold forth a staff, without taking it out of its bandoleer. Therefore it seems the most reasonable interpretation that holding any of the three magic sticks requires taking them out of the bandoleer.
As for adding the metamagic to an actual weapon that is up to the GM since that is a custom item. There is no metamagic enhancement. I would expect to be charged 150% of the rod price since it is an added ability outside of the scope of normal weapon.
Sounds appropriate.
A custom weaponwand spell to work with rods would also be an option.
I would expect to be charged 150% of the rod price since it is an added ability outside of the scope of normal weapon.
Thx, m8.
I think the best solution is to get a Greater Monkey Belt for 18k, it comes with a few other perks.
Btw. Shouldn't Metamagic Rods be spell completition items, and shouldn't using spell completition items be considered to be doing the somantic component of the spells?
I mean, if you are already holding a staff, rods and wands, mabe by brandishing them around should be enough to cast the spell, and you should not need an extra free hand just for the somantics.
Doesn't the price hike only really apply to slotted items? Neither weapons or rods are slotted items.
One solution might be to make your weapons for TWF ones which don't need to be held in your hands. You could wear armor spikes or spiked gauntlets. You could even fight with unarmed strikes. Also note that you can carry a rod in the same hand as a light shield (which can itself be used as a weapon)
Also note that you can carry a rod in the same hand as a light shield (which can itself be used as a weapon)
Good idea, and for more munchkiness strap a Effortless Lace on a Large Spiked Light Shield, it will still be a light weapon with a better damage and you'll still have your hand free.
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Doesn't the price hike only really apply to slotted items? Neither weapons or rods are slotted items.
Held items are treated as slotted for pricing purposes because the number of held items you can use at one time is limited. It's more advantageous to have a weapon that also acts as a metamagic rod than to have a weapon and a separate metamagic rod, so a price increase is appropriate. True slotless items do not force these tradeoffs. There is no benefit to having an ioun stone with +2 Con and +2 Str compared to two ioun stones each with one of the two benefits.
Doesn't the price hike only really apply to slotted items? Neither weapons or rods are slotted items.Held items are treated as slotted for pricing purposes because the number of held items you can use at one time is limited. It's more advantageous to have a weapon that also acts as a metamagic rod than to have a weapon and a separate metamagic rod, so a price increase is appropriate. True slotless items do not force these tradeoffs. There is no benefit to having an ioun stone with +2 Con and +2 Str compared to two ioun stones each with one of the two benefits.
That makes since I suppose, but where's the rule that actually says that?
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Keeping in mind that Paizo is not known for its studiously precise language and Paizo employees have encouraged use of common sense when reading rules:
Wielding generally refers to weapons, which rods are not by default. It is therefore understandable that this term was not used when describing rods.
"Manipulate an item" is its own move action; saying that the rod needed to be manipulated to be used might imply an additional move action cost at the time it was activated. In contrast, holding a (drawn) rod allows you to take the action to prepare the rod well before use, even before combat. Therefore if the designers intend the item to simply be in hand (drawn) "manipulate" is not an improvement in the wording.
I'm not aware of nor can I find a consistent usage for "brandish." It seems to be used exclusively for holy symbols.
Use of "holding" for magic casty sticks:
To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area.To activate a staff, a character must hold it forth in at least one hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures).Unless noted otherwise, you must be holding a rod to use its abilities .The rod description is the weakest of the three but I don't see how you can hold a wand and point it, or hold forth a staff, without taking it out of its bandoleer. Therefore it seems the most reasonable interpretation that holding any of the three magic sticks requires taking them out of the bandoleer.
As for adding the metamagic to an actual weapon that is up to the GM since that is a custom item. There is no metamagic enhancement. I would expect to be charged 150% of the rod price since it is an added ability outside of the scope of normal weapon.Sounds appropriate.
A custom weaponwand spell to work with rods would also be an option.
My take is that the spell is directed through the rod, in order to enhance it with the silent, empower, piercing feat, etc.
So it is sufficient for somatic purposes to take the rod out and point it where you want the spell to go.
In the case of a caster grappled in the area of effect of a silence spell, the silent rod would have to be in hand, which presumes it had already been taken out before the Grapple. Otherwise it woudl require a move action (opposed grapple) to get it in hand.
Otherwise it woudl require a move action (opposed grapple) to get it in hand.
Nothing in the grapple rules says you cannot take move actions while grappled. You cannot perform movement (as in move from one square to another), but you can still take any move action that does not involve action movement (the game defined movement of changing spaces on the map).
Just use a buckler or light shield. Both allow you to hold things in your hand. And all you give up for this extra flexibility is 1 point of AC.
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Nothing in the grapple rules says you cannot take move actions while grappled. You cannot perform movement (as in move from one square to another), but you can still take any move action that does not involve action movement (the game defined movement of changing spaces on the map).
Otherwise it woudl require a move action (opposed grapple) to get it in hand.
Pathfinder has changed the Grapple Rules so I was still thinking 3.5
So I suppose a grappled character could pull out a one handed (or light) weapon and attack the grappler with it. Hopefully it is a weapon that will stun or daze the grappler.
Doesn't the price hike only really apply to slotted items? Neither weapons or rods are slotted items.
When dealing with custom items such as this the GM has to determine the price. I think 150% is fair since it is outside of the normal usage.
edit: The magic item creation rules for making unique items are really guidelines, and it is more of an art than a science.
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Held items are treated as slotted for pricing purposes because the number of held items you can use at one time is limited. It's more advantageous to have a weapon that also acts as a metamagic rod than to have a weapon and a separate metamagic rod, so a price increase is appropriate. True slotless items do not force these tradeoffs. There is no benefit to having an ioun stone with +2 Con and +2 Str compared to two ioun stones each with one of the two benefits.That makes since I suppose, but where's the rule that actually says that?
It's not explicit, but you can see the principle in action in items like the Horn of Fog, which is priced the same as a slotted use-activated Obscuring Mist item, and the Pipes of Haunting, which are priced like a slotted use-activated Scare item. For me that makes the RAI pretty clear.
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Another good trick is to hand rods by short chains from your belt. Then just reach down and grab the one you want (treat as drawing a weapon, or as a weapon cord move action, or whatever) then just drop it when you're done.
I came here to say basically this. I generally describe my characters as having their metamagic rods attached to a belt via very short chains and when a character uses them, they still have to take a move action to select and grasp. Being on a chain, though, they can take a free action to "drop" them and have them end up in the exact same place as where they started.
Rules-wise, though, unless you have the rod in one of your hands at the start of your turn, you are still going to have to take move action of some sort to draw/manipulate/grasp it, even if it's in an incredibly convenient area. If a caster had quick-draw I might consider letting them draw it as a free action because of my views on weapons and weapon-like items ...
That being said, I'm also very liberal on the rules for drawing an item as part of a move if you have a BAB of 1 or higher. If you can draw a greataxe, or a heavy crossbow, or a scythe, you can draw a rod. If it's even remotely shaped like something that's a weapon, I allow it to be drawn as part of the move. This includes potions, scrolls, wands, and rods.
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Those rods are 5 pounds a piece! How many can you realistically hang from your belt before it pulls your pants down?
Those rods are 5 pounds a piece! How many can you realistically hang from your belt before it pulls your pants down?
Adamantine suspenders.
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Those rods are 5 pounds a piece! How many can you realistically hang from your belt before it pulls your pants down?
Q) How many weapons does one hang from a convenient spot?
A) As many as their encumbrance will allow, since there is no "neener, neener your pants fell down" rule in PFS, as much as I'd like there to be.
Those rods are 5 pounds a piece! How many can you realistically hang from your belt before it pulls your pants down?Q) How many weapons does one hang from a convenient spot?
A) As many as their encumbrance will allow, since there is no "neener, neener your pants fell down" rule in PFS, as much as I'd like there to be.
A) As many as your GM will allow you to have.