Bladed Scarf user - Build Advice


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I've been thinking about making a bladed scarf dancer for my next campaign. I really like the flavour of the weapon, I envision him darting around combat in a blur of movement and colour, seeming to disappear and reappear out of nowhere. Obviously it won't be the most optimised of builds but I'd appreciate some advice to make it not horrible.

Couple of things I want to do:
- Use bladed scarf. Seems like dipping first level into Bladed Scarf Dancer Magus is pretty much a necessity, giving you proficiency and weapon focus in the bladed scarf, as well as allowing you to use it as a one handed weapon, which opens up Slashing Grace for dex to damage.

- Work up to Whirlwind attack. This is mostly just for the flavor of the thing, though if there were another way to attack multiple mooks at once that'd be cool. I just imagine the scarf whirling around and striking a whole group of guys at once.

- Be at least decent from level 1. We'll be starting from level 1 in the campaign, and not really sure how far it'll go.

Build:
(20 points buy)

Human
STR 8
DEX 18 (+2 racial)
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 14

1. Magus 1. Bladed Scarf proficiency (Class), Weapon Focus [Bladed Scarf] (Class), Weapon Finesse (Level 1), Slashing Grace (Human)
2. Ninja 1.
3. Ninja 2. Dodge (Level 3), Ninja Trick (Vanishing Trick)
4. Ninja 3.
5. Ninja 4. Mobility (Level 5), Combat Reflexes(Combat Trick), Ninja Trick (Combat Trick)
6. Ninja 5.
7. Ninja 6. Spring Attack (Level 7), Ninja Trick (Rogue Talent[Offensive Defense])
8. Ninja 7.
9. Ninja 8. Lunge (Level 9), Ninja Trick (Shadow Clone)
10. Ninja 9.
11. Ninja 10. Whirlwind Attack (Level 11), Master Trick (Invisible Blade)

At level 1 he can add dex mod to attack rolls and damage, and Weapon Focus for free kinda makes up for 0 BAB until 3rd. I really like the vanishing trick/sneak attack for the flavour of this character. Dodge, and Mobility obviously as prereqs for Spring Attack. At level 11 he gets invisible blade, which allows him to make 5d6 sneak attacks against every enemy within 10 squares with a lunge whirlwind attack. Offensive Defense also grants him +5 AC against each target hit.

Thoughts? The Ability Scores may be kinda wack, I was originally going to go with 3 levels of Bladed Scarf Dancer to get the Elasticity Arcana, which would give me an extra 5 feet of reach, plus 3 spells/day rather than 1. But then I couldn't do the whirlwind sneak attack thing until level 13. The +2 int modifier was meant for Arcane Pool points, Canny Defense and Combat Expertise, so I guess it's kind of worthless here.

It kind of feels like I'm wasting the strengths of the weapon (lol) like this. I was also thinking of just sticking with straight Bladed Scarf Dancer and picking up the Maneuver Mastery Arcana to focus on tripping/disarming over DPR. I really like the vanishing trick, though the magus does of course get plenty of cool stuff of his own.


I kinda like this idea... :)

One note, if you are gunna dump to 9 in two stats... think about dumping to 8 in just one of them. Your penalty is -1 at 9 or 8, so why take two separate -1 penalties?


FireberdGNOME wrote:

I kinda like this idea... :)

One note, if you are gunna dump to 9 in two stats... think about dumping to 8 in just one of them. Your penalty is -1 at 9 or 8, so why take two separate -1 penalties?

Good point! Thanks.

Scarab Sages

I think a pure Kapenia Dancer magus will be much stronger than a ninja that just takes a magus dip.

I would take wand wielder arcana instead of maneuver mastery. +20 to a maneuver form a wand of trues strike will be more useful than the small boost from maneuver mastery. You can also take Flamboyant Arcana and Arcane Deed to gain precise strike with the scarf.

Another option that might work is to be a warpriest of Sivanah.


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You might have a problem with your Build -

Feat: Slashing Grace only works with a one handed Slashing Weapon.

Bladed Scarf is a Exotic 2-Handed Weapon.

While the magus archetype does allow the Bladed Scarf to be used one handed weapon, I don't think it changes the type of weapon it is.


Warpriest of Sivanah would cover the proficiency for the Bladed Scarf, and while you can't get Slashing Grace you could just wait until roughly 4th level to make it Agile. And then as you level Warpriest will increase its damage dice.


Imbicatus wrote:

I think a pure Kapenia Dancer magus will be much stronger than a ninja that just takes a magus dip.

I would take wand wielder arcana instead of maneuver mastery. +20 to a maneuver form a wand of trues strike will be more useful than the small boost from maneuver mastery. You can also take Flamboyant Arcana and Arcane Deed to gain precise strike with the scarf.

Another option that might work is to be a warpriest of Sivanah.

I'm not sure warpriest fits the concept I have in mind so well. Is there a way to make a dextrous, agile, rogue-ish warpriest? Not too familiar with the class.

I fear you may be right with the magus thing. I originally did want to make a pure ninja, the reason I dipped magus was to get all the stuff I mentioned. I could make a magus that fits concept - I just don't think I could make a warpriest work.

Thanks to others who also suggested it though.

Matt2VK wrote:
While the magus archetype does allow the Bladed Scarf to be used one handed weapon, I don't think it changes the type of weapon it is.

I was figuring this would come up. For me it seems like this covers it:

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9rb5

"An unusual case of the handedness rule is an ability that allows you to treat a two-handed weapon as a one-handed weapon. For example, the titan mauler's jotungrip (which allows you to wield a two-handed weapon with one hand) allows you to wield a bastard sword in one hand even without the Exotic Weapon Proficiency, and (as the ability states) treats it as a one-handed weapon, therefore it is treated as a one-handed weapon for other effects."

My GM has already approved it though, so I'd rather not get into too much of a discussion here.


A dex-based kapenia dancer magus can be pretty awesome. Like the Kensai, it gets weapon focus in a one-handed slashing weapon right away so you can make that dex-to-damage with Slashing Grace at first level.

Unlike the Kensai, it retains spell recall.

The scarf has the trip and disarm properties making it attractive to use to trip while delivering a spell such as frostbite. It doesn't have a large crit range, which makes it better to use for debuffing, which disarming and tripping go right along with.

If you get the trait that lets you use intelligence with UMD, you can pretty reliably use a wand of mage armor. If your GM lets you add the spell to your spell list, even better. Mage armor + shield + Int and Dex to AC means you'll be really hard to hit, and when you can use mirror image and blur and so forth it'll be even harder.

Scarab Sages

I second going full Kapenia Dancer, with the flamboyant arcana and arcane deeds you'll be able to pick up some pretty sweet deeds:
Precise Strike (available at level 3) add your level as precision damage to every hit.
Evasive (available at level 11) its very important for a dex based character that you never ever get caught flat-footed, and who doesn't like evasion.

I might also stack the Hexcrafter archetype. Curses! Including Brand for spell combat.


OK, thanks, I guess I'm going to go full magus then. Seems like some of the swashbuckler deeds will give the flavour I'm after. Any advice for what to change with feat progression and such?

Scarab Sages

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There is one caveat with the Kapenia Dancer, they were a little lazy when they wrote up the archetype, and didn't write what was replaced with what. A summary of the problem can be found here.

It has allegedly been corrected with errata but it doesn't seem anyone's actually seen this errata. So talk to your GM at the very least see if you can't get at something small, like the spell dancer archetypes insight bonus to replace the medium and heavy armor. Or maybe just the regular Magus Light Armor proficiency at level 7.

If he won't give it to you, you may consider just going Kensai and playing as a kapenia dancer, and picking the bladed scarf as your weapon. If you're not wedded to the bladed scarf as a weapon but like the rest of the aspects, you could still take Kensai pick up a high crit weapon from the exotic weapons list. And crit fish.

That being said, I'll pass along Zenith Games list of Class Guides for some pretty indepth analysis of the Magus Class.

I wouldn't worry about the whirlwind, you'll want to avoid being surrounded by mooks in general.

You'll be able to drop your CHA down as low as you feel comfortable, I'd probably bring strength back up to 10 at least you want to be able to carry your gear. At least 14 in CON as you'll be constantly wading into melee. May I also suggest you invest in a Haramaki. The guides should help more than I can. In the long run, Precise Strike will net you more damage than slashing grace or arcane strike. I'd focus on upping your to hit score.

Human
STR 12
DEX 17 (+2 racial)
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 10
CHA 7

1. Magus 1. Bladed Scarf Proficiency [Class], Weapon Focus (Bladed Scarf) [Class], Weapon Finesse [Lvl 1], Slashing Grace [Human]
2. Magus 2.
3. Magus 3. Extra Arcana (Precise Strike) [Level 3], Flamboyant Arcana [Arcana]
4. Magus 4.
5. Magus 5. ? [Level 5], ? [Bonus Feat], ?Wand Wielder? [arcana]
6. Magus 6.
7. Magus 7. ? [Level 7], ? [arcana]
8. Magus 8.
9. Magus 9. ? [Level 9], ? [arcana]
10. Magus 10.
11. Magus 11. ? [Level 11], ? [Bonus Feat], Arcane Deed (Evasive) [Arcana]


Based on that logic a bladed scarf / bladebound / hex crafter. Would be a possible build combo and still retain spell recall at 11. What a beast that would be Go elf for extra arcana or take human with racial. OMG hexes, AC, and OMG its just a scarf eat your face yum yum yum.


So I can't add much, but look into Trailwalker. Lets you hit reach and adjacent while full-attackking.


Thanks for the advice everyone, didn't realise there were more replies here. Campaign has started and can't really change my Ability Scores at this point. So stuck with this:

Build:
(20 points buy)

Human
STR 8
DEX 18 (+2 racial)
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 14

stealthymonkeyman wrote:
Based on that logic a bladed scarf / bladebound / hex crafter. Would be a possible build combo and still retain spell recall at 11. What a beast that would be Go elf for extra arcana or take human with racial. OMG hexes, AC, and OMG its just a scarf eat your face yum yum yum.

I like the idea of Bladebound, since I doubt there'll be a ton of magic bladed scarfs hanging around and I don't really want to mess around with crafting feats. How does this look:

1. Magus 1. Bladed Scarf Proficiency [Class], Weapon Focus (Bladed Scarf) [Class], Weapon Finesse [Lvl 1], Slashing Grace [Human]
2. Magus 2.
3. Magus 3. Bladebound, Amateur Swashbuckler [Level 3] (Since I can't take Extra Arcana at this level with Bladebound, this would give me panache points to spend on Precise Strike, which have the benefit of being replenishable, and Arcane Points are already low, lower with Bladebound)
4. Magus 4.
5. Magus 5. Extra Arcana (Flamboyant) [Level 5], Extra Arcana (Precise Strike) [Extra Feat]
6. Magus 6. Elasticity/Wand Wielder/Arcane Accuracy [arcana]
7. Magus 7. Extra Arcane Pool [Level 7],
8. Magus 8.
9. Magus 9. Intensify Spell [Level 9], Elasticity/Wand Wielder/Arcane Accuracy [arcana]
10. Magus 10.
11. Magus 11. Combat Reflexes [Level 11], ? [Bonus Feat], Arcane Deed (Evasive) [Arcana]

Scarab Sages

Why is your CHA so high?
Instead of amateur swashbuckler, why don't you take extra arcane pool?
I wouldn't spend panache On the precise strike
If you think you'll have the swift actions, arcane strike is free damage


We have a Hexcrafter/Bladed-scarf Dancer in a game I'm in and he's pretty scary! This was on a 25-pt buy, so his INT and DEX are both high. At lvl 4 his AC was insane already.

I'm curious about the Stats spread, too. Why only a 14 INT if you're going to stay Magus class? I get the feeling you're looking for a non-magus/non-spellcaster character but with all the perks of the Bladed-scarf Dancer. (I can relate. I wanted to build a Kensai-type monk/swordmaster with the INT to AC and iaijutsu perks, but had no interest in all the arcane aspects.)

I'd dump the CHA and bump INT, and maybe STR a bit (just for carrying capacity, not damage as your Dex to Damage stuff kicks in).


Imbicatus wrote:

I think a pure Kapenia Dancer magus will be much stronger than a ninja that just takes a magus dip.

I would take wand wielder arcana instead of maneuver mastery. +20 to a maneuver form a wand of trues strike will be more useful than the small boost from maneuver mastery. You can also take Flamboyant Arcana and Arcane Deed to gain precise strike with the scarf.

Another option that might work is to be a warpriest of Sivanah.

I agree. A bladed scarf is a disarm and a trip weapon. With levels in Kapenia Dancer, you can also Steal With it. You might consider some combination of Bladed Scarf Dancer Magus with Monk Maneuver Master.

They also have a special ability that activates on Crits, so even though Bladed Scarves are not especially Crit weapons, it might be a good idea to take Improved Crit, Crit Focus, and maybe some other Crit Feats.


B. A. Robards-Debardot wrote:

Why is your CHA so high?

Instead of amateur swashbuckler, why don't you take extra arcane pool?
I wouldn't spend panache On the precise strike
If you think you'll have the swift actions, arcane strike is free damage

I understand the charisma is not optimal, but it's done now. I made the character when I was planning to multiclass ninja.

Extra Arcane Pool would give me two points, Amateur Swashbuckler would give me 3 that I could replenish. The arcane pool gives more versatility, but if I use precise strike more than twice in a day then Amateur Swashbuckler seems better. Is there something I'm missing there?

Arcane Strike seems pretty good.

Otherwhere wrote:
I'm curious about the Stats spread, too. Why only a 14 INT if you're going to stay Magus class?

I did say in my post, the campaign has already started with the ability scores I listed. I would love to change them, but at this point it's not possible. If you want to theorycraft a character then assume a different stat spread.

Scarab Sages

precise strike wrote:
Precise Strike (Ex) : At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can even use this ability with thrown light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn't multiplied on a critical hit. As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to double her precise strike's damage bonus on the next attack. This benefit must be used before the end of her turn, or it is lost. This deed's cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the amount of panache points a deed costs (such as the Signature Deed feat).

Well, you only need spend panache if you want to double the damage on your next attack (only one attack), from the magus's limited pool it might not make sense. Even if were to take amatuer swashbuckler you'll need to be landing the final blow (which may happen a lot in your game or may not depending on party make up it varies) or scoring crits (the scarf isn't great for critical hits).

You'll also get the following deeds from Flamboyant Arcana.
Derring-Do (Ex) - not that great
Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex) - may be hard to pull of with a 3/4 BAB class, panache intensive.

If you take amatuer swashbuckler you'd want to grab:
Dodging Panache (Ex) - Which may not be that great for us with an unbuffed charisma modifier and can be pretty situational (possibly avoid an attack, but trigger an AoO)

You're also unlikely to want to get CHA increasing items as you'll already be buffing your three main scores (DEX, CON, INT).

Moving the Extra Arcane Pool from 7th to 3rd then allows you to pick up Extra Arcana (or a witch hex using Extra Arcana) at Level 7. And it will give you a larger arcane pool to use at earlier levels which is nice.


B. A. Robards-Debardot wrote:
precise strike wrote:
Precise Strike (Ex) : At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can even use this ability with thrown light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn't multiplied on a critical hit. As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to double her precise strike's damage bonus on the next attack. This benefit must be used before the end of her turn, or it is lost. This deed's cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the amount of panache points a deed costs (such as the Signature Deed feat).
Well, you only need spend panache if you want to double the damage on your next attack (only one attack), from the magus's limited pool it might not make sense. Even if were to take amatuer swashbuckler you'll need to be landing the final blow (which may happen a lot in your game or may not depending on party make up it varies) or scoring crits (the scarf isn't great for critical hits).

OH! I totally misread the precise strike deed. So you get your level added to all damage and you can double that damage if you spend a panache point (or arcane point)?

And I suppose replenishing panache would be pretty tricky. Though I anticipate being one of the higher "DPR" characters in the party.

Quote:

You'll also get the following deeds from Flamboyant Arcana.

Derring-Do (Ex) - not that great
Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex) - may be hard to pull of with a 3/4 BAB class, panache intensive.

If you take amatuer swashbuckler you'd want to grab:
Dodging Panache (Ex) - Which may not be that great for us with an unbuffed charisma modifier and can be pretty situational (possibly avoid an attack, but trigger an AoO)...

Yeah I suppose I was just trying to use my "wasted" charisma score for something, but I think you may be right. 3 feats just for precise strike isn't wise. And I'm going to be wanting to use my items for boosting the lackluster int score if anything.

Thanks again! You've been a great help, and I really love the flavour of this guy already.

Scarab Sages

Yep Precise Strike is Spiffy. Do note it has the same limitations as sneak attack damage, some of which can be overcome with Ghost Touch.

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