Round 4 monster predictions


RPG Superstar™ General Discussion

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Clouds Without Water

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm excited about round 4! This year was a golden playground of opportunity with the environment and the monsters available, and I can't wait to see what these guys did with them!

So now that all the entries are in, which of the top 16 monsters do you think was most used? Which would you have used?

I think Deeplit will be used more than once. There's just too much eerie atmosphere built into it to pass up, though I think it's also got some danger for the encounter designers. It would be easy to let the 'cool' of the encounter to come from the monster, so you have to work harder to make sure the encounter lives up to it.

I'd have used the Spiroskek. There's some ways to use it in a setting it prepared for itself that could be completely terrifying and memorable. You could showcase both monster and the unique environment of Nar-Voth. Plus you get to play with several senses at once. Total fun!

What does everyone else think?

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka mamaursula

R D Ramsey wrote:

I'm excited about round 4! This year was a golden playground of opportunity with the environment and the monsters available, and I can't wait to see what these guys did with them!

So now that all the entries are in, which of the top 16 monsters do you think was most used? Which would you have used?

I think Deeplit will be used more than once. There's just too much eerie atmosphere built into it to pass up, though I think it's also got some danger for the encounter designers. It would be easy to let the 'cool' of the encounter to come from the monster, so you have to work harder to make sure the encounter lives up to it.

I'd have used the Spiroskek. There's some ways to use it in a setting it prepared for itself that could be completely terrifying and memorable. You could showcase both monster and the unique environment of Nar-Voth. Plus you get to play with several senses at once. Total fun!

What does everyone else think?

I can safely confirm that I did not use the narrik. ;-)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka GM_Solspiral

1 person marked this as a favorite.

There is nothing in the rules that require it to be a combat encounter thus I'd be really tempted to use the Spiroskek in a modified chase scene where the first square is a disable device or perception check failure means a boulder enters the chase a couple rounds automatically moving one space a round.

Another fun non-combat encounter would be a Coryphae dance competition. "Winning" dance team goes up to claim a prom king/queen crown but there's a trap built into the podium that drenches someone in a low cr ooze of it gets triggered.

Just my first 2 ideas...

My prediction Gloomwasp will be the most popular.

Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
GM_Solspiral wrote:

There is nothing in the rules that require it to be a combat encounter thus I'd be really tempted to use the Spiroskek in a modified chase scene where the first square is a disable device or perception check failure means a boulder enters the chase a couple rounds automatically moving one space a round.

Another fun non-combat encounter would be a Coryphae dance competition. "Winning" dance team goes up to claim a prom king/queen crown but there's a trap built into the podium that drenches someone in a low cr ooze of it gets triggered.

Just my first 2 ideas...

My prediction Gloomwasp will be the most popular.

The second is only really good if the ooze is red in colour and the victim of the trap gains telekinesis as an at-will spell-like ability for the duration of the ooze attack...

>:D

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka GM_Solspiral

glad someone got it...

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Clouds Without Water

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You could call it The Carriephae Incident.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

At least one of the monsters named in this thread so far was not used at all.

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Clouds Without Water

If someone actually used the Coryphae I'll be impressed. I loved the monster, but it's a big risk for this round.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

It's not the monster but how you use it. ;-) I do think that a Superstar contestant can and should take calculated risks.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

If you do not take some risk and execute it well, you aren't a Superstar. Anyone can do a decent job with a tested idea. You have to deliver something unique, bring the fun, and deliver it with confidence.

Scarab Sages Modules Overlord

The 8 encounters use fewer than 8 of the round 3 monsters.

...

A LOT fewer...

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka GM_Solspiral

I hope no one did the super obvious Gloom wasp + break the hive trap + wasp swarm

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka GM_Solspiral

I revise my statement I bet the Labyrinth Weaver is going to be the favorite... I reread that and I can think of like 4 encounters... The way it is written begs for an encounter.

Star Voter Season 6

1 person marked this as a favorite.

So, it looks like 4 Geomaws, 2 Dread Gluttons, 1 Gloomwasp, and 1 Wymblewyrm.

Huzzah for the resurrection of the Wimblewyrm! :)

They all like like really neat encounters at a glance.
I look forward to having more time to fully read them!

Star Voter Season 6

Three entries won triple judge recommendations: Brian's Gloomsworn Path using the Gloomwasp, Monica's Hanging Gardens using the Dread Glutton, and Chris's Darkblight Fallow also using the Dread Glutton.

Steven also recommended Scott's Barca's Haven using the Wimblewyrm, and Owen also recommended Kalervo's Fellforge Chapel using the Geomaw. I don't think John recommended a fourth encounter for advancement.

It's interesting that the three encounters that did not win any judge recommendations all used the Geomaw.

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Clouds Without Water

I haven't read any entries yet, just look at Lady Firedove's summary of creature types.

If I had made an ordered list of expected choices, the Geomaw would have been 15th (Deep Desire at 16). I get the desire to both go with a challenging choice and to 'redeem' the monster by featuring the patterns, which everyone liked about it. But I thought the creature provided limited opportunity for contestants to show off as encounter designers, as opposed to monster redeemers, if that makes sense. Other creatures provided a lot more opportunity with their risks.

Well, time to read the entries. Maybe I'll disagree with the judges, won't be the first time!

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Clouds Without Water

Whoops, I see I was confusing the Geomaw and the Blightburn, with the patterns thing. I was thinking the appeal of using something like the Blightburn would be to use the encounter to add to what people liked about it- the patterns. With the setting and story of an encounter, you could certainly do that, and maybe do it well. The risk would be letting the desire to do that take the focus away from the encounter itself.

What I did remember correctly is that the Geomaw is a relatively static creature, which limits the encounter design opportunities. The big risk with a Geomaw encounter is that the players might miss it altogether, or that it might not be much of a threat when it is revealed. Of the couple Geomaw entries I've read so far, those are indeed risks.

I think there's some of that same "pick it for the challenge" element at work there too...

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka Darkjoy

The geomaw was misused in a lot of the encounters, kudos to the designer ofcourse, if you can entice 4 contestants in using your monste you are doing something right!

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Clouds Without Water

Maurice de Mare wrote:
The geomaw was misused in a lot of the encounters, kudos to the designer ofcourse, if you can entice 4 contestants in using your monste you are doing something right!

The irony is he couldn't use his own monster, but maybe ended up making the strongest encounter.

Scarab Sages Star Voter Season 8

Ramsey, your profile pic is geeking me out. I keep getting a Mystery of Druids vibe from it.

The geomaw seems like a great "wandering monster" but not the best thing to craft an encounter around. Sure, there are a few reasons you could encounter one, but ultimately it would make a much better "oh crap oh crap oh crap" pants-sullying random encounter than a set piece monster. However, I can see the appeal of wanting to write around it.


@ Khaos LOL, having clicked your link, I can never look at R D the same again.

The Exchange

I'm actually disappointed so many contestants used the geomaw. It wasn't one of my favorites from the monster round, to be honest. However, it was well-designed, and certainly better than anything I could have come up with given the parameters of the contest!

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

I think there's a lot to like about the geomaw, but part of the challenge in Round Four is to insert the monster from the previous round seamlessly and organically. I don't feel the geomaw received that treatment from the entries, even though I think it's a pretty cool monster.

Star Voter Season 6

I also think it's interesting that two of the three best (according to the judges ... I haven't read them all yet) encounters this round used Kalervo's dread glutton.

Seeing the dread glutton in action, and seeing the ways Christopher and Monica pulled creative gems from the dread glutton's abilities and background and really made them shine, has made me appreciate that monster more and hope that Kalervo's creativity in designing it will be rewarded with a spot in the final four.

Of course, I seriously believe that more than half of the top 8 should be rewarded with a spot in the final four, so, mathematically, I don't think that's gonna work out for me...

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka GM_Solspiral

I feel like there were a bunch of cool encounters that didn't get made because everyone picked the same few monsters...

The Spiroskek demands a trap riddled race track maybe led by an advanced one with an ill-fitted quickrunner's shirt.

An evil Aetherling leads a gang of evil fey with a quickling being his right hand enforcer.

A cult occupying an ancient cyclops temple is led by a formerly blind oracle with a secret... visitors get a new "insight" via Occularictus swarm just like the Oracle.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

It's definitely interesting seeing how monsters get picked. Last year I think had a wider array -- even though oddly one of the best monsters (the chimney troll) didn't get used at all.

I wonder if there's a way to ensure a wider spread in the future years, though I'm not sure it's worth it. There are enough restriction already that I don't really have a problem with contestants picking whichever one they want and it just so happened this year lots of people liked the geomaw.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka GM_Solspiral

Maybe next year the contestants can discuss what monster they are using in advance or something...

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka mamaursula

GM_Solspiral wrote:
Maybe next year the contestants can discuss what monster they are using in advance or something...

That would be unfair to the contestants and voters, who's to say that Joe Bob's utilization of Monster A is better than Peggy Sue's? Only the voters can make that decision and that happens during the voting portion of the contest.

Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9

They added the pitch to the final round a couple years ago. Does that still happen? By pitch I mean they run the short version through the design team to keep contestants from duplicating something Paizo has planned sometime down the road.

Something like that could happen, where each of the top 16 tell our host what there first and second choice critters are. After the 8 get announced, Paizo can look at the numbers and say go with plan A Peggy Sue; Joe Bob, use plan B.

I don't think its necessary though. Standing out of the crowd where the crowd is 8 shouldn't rely on the critters. It's almost nice to compare apples to apples too. Maybe there could be two votes, one vote for favorite '[geomaw]' encounter one for 'other'. :)

Don't look at me like that, complexity is a common symptom of gamers :)

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think there's nothing preventing contestants from discussing with each other what monsters they want to use. (Actually, from my understanding, there's nothing preventing them from announcing to everyone what monster they'll use, though they should refrain from discussing why even ahead of time.) That said, as a two-time contestant, I wouldn't do any of that. There may be great collaborating and camaraderie between everyone, but it's still a contest. Part of the challenge is standing out, and part of that can be in what monster you pick.

The pitch process for R5 is different, as they're pitching an actual product and Paizo doesn't want it to be too similar to something already on the books, as happened to Tom Phillips.

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka mamaursula

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Curaigh wrote:

They added the pitch to the final round a couple years ago. Does that still happen? By pitch I mean they run the short version through the design team to keep contestants from duplicating something Paizo has planned sometime down the road.

Something like that could happen, where each of the top 16 tell our host what there first and second choice critters are. After the 8 get announced, Paizo can look at the numbers and say go with plan A Peggy Sue; Joe Bob, use plan B.

I don't think its necessary though. Standing out of the crowd where the crowd is 8 shouldn't rely on the critters. It's almost nice to compare apples to apples too. Maybe there could be two votes, one vote for favorite '[geomaw]' encounter one for 'other'. :)

Don't look at me like that, complexity is a common symptom of gamers :)

Yes, we have received notification that we need to have a brief elevator pitch that will need approval before we can move forward with our final submission.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8 aka DeathQuaker

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I had some thoughts on the monster repetition issue... but wanted to wait until the round was over so I could talk about it a little more freely.

So, my name is Rep and I used the geomaw.

(Hi Rep.)

So -- one thing to note is I at least devised a location first, then picked the monster that I felt suited it best. So that was the geomaw. I expect at least some of my fellow geomaw users may have thought along similar lines. There's some assumption here that creature is always picked first so just thought I'd point that out.

And the thing is--while yes, it was fairly easy to predict that the encounters would include R3 monsters and take place in Nar-Voth, we couldn't be sure of it until the rules were announced. To get a 1400 word item and map anywhere close to perfected, I at least felt I had to start drafting encounters well before the rules reveal. That meant drafting a number of encounters that didn't RELY on use of a given location or creature, or could at least be modular enough we could take out or insert whatever the eventually announced twist would throw at us. And I think that's why so few monsters got picked from, because it was tempting to pick a monster that would be reasonably easy to insert or replace in a given encounter as needed. I could be wrong, but that's my theory.

At any rate--yeah, it's odd, a weird fluke, even, that only a quarter of the available monsters were used. But maybe there were other contest specifics that contributed to that, however subtly. Also, the monsters chosen were cool monsters. :)

And I don't think, even having gone through this, it would be a good idea for the top 8 to confer on what they're picking for the reasons stated--sometimes seeing how two different people use the same monster can be as enlightening, if not more, than see people use a different one. It would also be a shame if someone avoided using a monster that really would be PERFECT for their encounter because they felt they couldn't because someone else was using it.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Amanuensis

In my opinon, the list of monster options is a lot shorter than one might think. Using a monster that did not make the cut seems like a huge risk (after all, the voters want to see the creatures they voted for in action) and I would assume that using an underdog did not pay off in previous years (haven't checked though). Considering my own personal preferences and the requirements of the encounter round, there were only two monsters that made my shortlist for encounters.
I chose the geomaw because it was my favourite monster, despite its limited tactical options. I think Brian did a great job describing the creature's relations to other darkland inhabitants and thereby hinting at possible encounters.

I don't think there should be any collusion between the contestants - that would be against the spirit of this competition. And I would argue that, though four of us ended up using the same monster, the encounters where all different enough.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

Gabriel Almer wrote:
Using a monster that did not make the cut seems like a huge risk (after all, the voters want to see the creatures they voted for in action) and I would assume that using an underdog did not pay off in previous years (haven't checked though).

Ahem.

I think I did just that last year, I picked a monster that no judge recommended for advancement. My reasons for doing that, in the order of importance:

1) The monster was perfect for what I had in mind for my encounter.
2) While it had some problems, the monster was solid enough not to cause mechanical problems in my encounter.
3) I like taking calculated risks. A Superstar shouldn't play safe. One of the payoffs was that no other finalist used the same monster. It's also a good way to show off your design chops.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's not the monster, it's how you use it.

Also: In the monster round, the monsters exist in a vacuum (=they have to manage on their own), while in the encounter round they have a context (=they're part of a whole). It's very, very useful to understand that. Judging by the monster choices made in the encounter round, a lot of people didn't understand that.

That's not to say that the encounters weren't good -- they were good. I'm only saying that there are more choices to be made than you may be aware of.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Amanuensis

Mikko Kallio wrote:
Gabriel Almer wrote:
Using a monster that did not make the cut seems like a huge risk (after all, the voters want to see the creatures they voted for in action) and I would assume that using an underdog did not pay off in previous years (haven't checked though).

Ahem.

I think I did just that last year, I picked a monster that no judge recommended for advancement. My reasons for doing that, in the order of importance:

1) The monster was perfect for what I had in mind for my encounter.
2) While it had some problems, the monster was solid enough not to cause mechanical problems in my encounter.
3) I like taking calculated risks. A Superstar shouldn't play safe. One of the payoffs was that no other finalist used the same monster. It's also a good way to show off your design chops.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's not the monster, it's how you use it.

Also: In the monster round, the monsters exist in a vacuum (=they have to manage on their own), while in the encounter round they have a context (=they're part of a whole). It's very, very useful to understand that. Judging by the monster choices made in the encounter round, a lot of people didn't understand that.

That's not to say that the encounters weren't good -- they were good. I'm only saying that there are more choices to be made than you may be aware of.

Alright, I stand corrected. I did some research and there are several examples in the history of this contest where that choice did pay off. And I think I get what you are saying.

Scarab Sages Modules Overlord

4 people marked this as a favorite.

There is power to taking something unpopular, and making it cool.

I never liked modrons until the Great Modron March. Indeed, the idea of taking a subpar monster and turning int into something cool is so powerful we did an entire book on that premise.

If someone had taken the Deep Desire, and built an awesome encounter that made it and it's powers an interesting and integral part of what the adventurers experienced, it would very much get my attention, and I bet voters as well.

The trick there, of course, is that doing that is hard. This starts to be like the "hard mode" discussions of round one. Making a magic staff that doesn't come across as a spell-in-a-can or swiss-army-knife is difficult. Lots of people who tried to do so failed, and many failed badly. But a few folks who took that challenge did very well as a result.

I think to win, Superstar contestants must push themselves, and take some risks. But they must know WHEN to do that, which is more art and instinct than clear best practices.

Picking something odd or unpopular or hard gets attention. If you don't reward that extra attention with something amazing, it works against you. If everyone is impressed, they'll be extra impressed.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
But they must know WHEN to do that, which is more art and instinct than clear best practices.

Very much agreed!

That's exactly why "taking calculated risks" was 3) on my list above, not 1) or even 2). It has to fit. It has to make sense. Then and only then the risk is worth taking.

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka mamaursula

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

...

I think to win, Superstar contestants must push themselves, and take some risks. But they must know WHEN to do that, which is more art and instinct than clear best practices...

Which by definition most of us do not possess. That's what makes RPG SS so much fun - seeing how each new hopeful designer's gut instinct works.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Doing something weird or unpopular is like going for the high crit multiplier weapon.

Community / Forums / Archive / Paizo / RPG Superstar™ / General Discussion / Round 4 monster predictions All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion