Why do you need intimidate to be a free action at first level? It's already viable: do your intimidate check and then get your single attack.
Go barbarian and get intimidating glare at second level; that lets you intimidate as a move action, then get your free attack. Then use your standard action to attack again.
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It requires a stun baton to be active at one, but it does not need to be active or even charged. A non-active stun baton functions as a sap, but it's a one-handed weapon instead of light. That means you can two-hand it.
Human fighter using a depleted stun baton two-handed with Power Attack, Hurtful, and Enforcer works at level 1.
Nice find, Imbicatus!
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Worship Sarenrae my friend, for the excellent Blade of Mercy trait.
Since you ignore the penalty for attacking for nonlethal damage with any slashing weapon, you can use a variety of powerful weapons and be a Human Fighter to have enough feats.
If you want to squeeze as much as possible out of level 1, you could even be a Gendarme Cavalier to grab your Power Attack, and get a free mount, Challenge, and whatever wacky Order ability you want.
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A stun baton is 5,000g There is no option is buy it depleted that i know of.
What you can is to use the "Blade of Mercy" trait. Allows nonlethal damage with slashing weapons and gives an additional +1 damage. Will need to be a human fighter i believe to get the three feats needed, also worship the goddess Sarenrae. But is 'online' at level 1. While you are likely not going to get any divine powers from the goddess you can determine your own level of devotion to said deity. To further help with your intimidates and if you prefer being more intelligent than charismatic the "Bruising Intellect" trait may be of value.
Requirements:
Human Race
Fighter
13+ str
Feats-
Power attack
Hurtful
Enforcer
Traits:
Blade of Mercy
???
edit:
I was Ninjaed while writing this
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The other trait should be Bully for a +1 to intimidate.
Cause there's just something funny about a hurtful bully who worships Sarenrae.
^+1 on that. Although Sarenrae seems to have an unusually high fraction of sketchy worshippers for a Good deity, so it sort of fits.
This thread has content that is handy to know even for non-PFS -- marking for interest.
If the goal is to be as good at using Hurtful as possible at level 1, the other trait should be Dominator for a +2 bonus instead of +1 (as Intimidate is already a class skill for Fighters/Cavaliers). Despite being a Belkzen region feat there's no requirement to be an Orc or Half-Orc.
If the goal is to be as good at using Hurtful as possible at level 1, the other trait should be Dominator for a +2 bonus instead of +1 (as Intimidate is already a class skill for Fighters/Cavaliers). Despite being a Belkzen region feat there's no requirement to be an Orc or Half-Orc.
That's better. I didn't see that one in the Guide to the Traits document.
Niche traits that give a larger-than-average bonus in a specific circumstance are my favorite.
It should be difficult to fail an Intimidate check at level 1 with these options. Assuming a 14 CHA, you can gain bonuses as follows:
+2 (CHA)
+1 (Ranks)
+3 (Class Skill)
+2 (Dominator Trait)
+2 (Masterwork Tool, Intimidate)
That's +10 base, versus a DC of 10 + HD + WIS modifier. If you become Enlarged via a potion or friendly wizard, you receive a +4 bonus vs. smaller creatures, essentially making it impossible to fail.
The larger concern is finding an opponent with enough HP to survive a Power Attack from a two-handed fighter at level 1 (and 2), to even need the extra Hurtful attack...
Please, clearly the best trait is Omen
What kind of tool gives a MW bonus to intimidate?
Omen wouldn't work with Hurtful because both use your swift action.
Ah, but imagine the synergy.
Intimidate them, then get your swift action attack.
Next round intimidate them as a swift action and attack normally.
At that point I'd be too confused and scared to continue fighting.
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Additional Resources says this:
Hobgoblins: chain challenge, motivated march, and spirit of the corps are legal feats for play. All equipment on page 117 is legal for play. The yzobu is added as a legal animal companion.
So if it's in the Hobgoblin section, it appears not to be legal. The Bugbear section does say "all feats on pages 20-21 are legal," so I'm hoping that's where it is. All the other sections call things out be name, and I don't see it listed anywhere else.
What kind of tool gives a MW bonus to intimidate?
PFS leadership has stated that it's totally cool to use the "generic" masterwork tools, as long as people don't abuse it (by covering themselves in masterwork tools for every skill under the sun).
A GM might require you to actually, yanno, describe your masterwork tool and why it should provide a circumstance bonus on the associated skill. So yes, a scary mask would be apropos for a +2 circumstance bonus to demoralizing creatures.
There is the battle mask which gives a untyped +1 to intimidate. So it would stack if your mw tool was something other than a mask.
Not sure if its legal.
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You can pick up a mask from the Mask of the Living God module that gives a +5 to intimidate. So there's that.
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Additional Resources says this:
Hobgoblins: chain challenge, motivated march, and spirit of the corps are legal feats for play. All equipment on page 117 is legal for play. The yzobu is added as a legal animal companion.So if it's in the Hobgoblin section, it appears not to be legal. The Bugbear section does say "all feats on pages 20-21 are legal," so I'm hoping that's where it is. All the other sections call things out be name, and I don't see it listed anywhere else.
He was wrong, Hurtful is a Bugbear feat.
Also, look into Cornugon Smash at higher levels.
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He was wrong, Hurtful is a Bugbear feat.
Also, look into Cornugon Smash at higher levels.
Great! I could start using Hurtful at 2nd level thanks to Martial Flexibility. My level 1 feat is Enforcer. Bonus feat at 2 will be Power Attack. Level 3 may now be Hurtful. Somewhere I want to work in Intimidating Prowess.
Cornugon Smash, unfortunately, does not line up with the 2nd bonus feat at 5th, but I could always either retrain into it at 6th or take it at 7th. It would be useful against things that I don't want to non-lethal. Most if those, though, will likely be mindless anyway, and I could always use Martial Flexibility to grab it temporarily in those cases.
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It doesn't start at first level, but a DEX-based Swashbuckler would come online at level three with nice attack/damage, lots of opp attacks and a solid CHA:
Menacing Swordplay (Ex)
At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, when a swashbuckler hits an opponent with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon, she can choose to use Intimidate to demoralize that opponent as a swift action instead of a standard action.
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I figured I'd go ahead and post my build for advice. It's for PFS, like the OP. The character only has 2XP (I haven't played him since the playtest) so anything can be rebuilt.
Name: Stelio
Race: Half-Orc
Class/Level: Brawler 1
STR: 19
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 10
HP: 13
AC: 15 Touch AC: 11 Flat AC: 14
Fort: +4 Ref: +3 Will: +0
Init +1 BAB: +1 CMB: +5 CMD: 16
Attacks:
Unarmed Strike: +5 (1d6+4)
(At 2nd) Brawler's Flurry: +4/+4 (1d6+4)
(At 2nd w/Power Attack) Brawler's Flurry: +3/+3 (1d6+6)
Whip: +5 (1d3+4)
Javelin +2 (1d6+4)
Traits:
Friend in Every Town +1 Know: Local (class skill), +1 Diplomacy (I can replace this trait, since Know: Local is now a class skill for Brawlers. I don't think that was the case in the playtest).
Bad Reputation +2 Intimidate (From the Szcarni, which he can technically keep, since he was started before season 6. Or I could swap to Dominator, but I'd have to buy a book. Bad Reputation is also a blanket +2 on Intimidate. Not just for Demoralize).
Racial Traits:
City-Raised: +2 Know: Local, Proficient with Whip and Longsword
Orc Ferocity
Darkvision: 60'
Intimidating: +2 on Intimidate
Feats:
1: Enforcer
B: Improved Unarmed Strike
Planned:
B2: Power Attack
3: Hurtful
5: Intimidating Prowess
B5: Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
7: Weapon Specialization: Unarmed Strike
Class Abilities:
Unarmed Damage: 1d6
Martial Flexibility: 4/day
Brawler's Cunning: Count as 13 Int for prereqs
Martial Training: Count Brawler Level as Fighter/Monk level for prereqs
Skills: Acrobatics +5, Intimidate: +8, Know: Local +7, Perception +4
Equipment: Chain Shirt (Eventually with Brawling), Whip, Javelins (2), MWK Backpack, 50' Silk Rope, Grappling Hook, Rations 7 days, Traveler's Outfit, Potion of Enlarge Person, Oil of Magic Weapon, Alchemist's Fire, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, wayfinder
748 gp
At first level, I use Martial Flexibility either to pick up Weapon Focus or Power Attack, depending. I was originally Combat Expertise at 3rd, to open up more feats for Martial Flexibility, but I think the only one use really use is Improved Trip, which isn't that important.
Any advice? Especially on a second trait and feat progression. I though about Quain Martial Artist for the +1 to Unarmed damage, but it really doesn't fit hit background. Maybe something to help with Will saves?
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Menacing Swordplay doesn't stack with Hurtful because they both are swift actions. You need to intimidate as a free action for it to work with a full attack.
Yep, I just realized that, too. I was having problems trying to figure out how to take Power Attack with my Swashbuckler anyway.
I am curious to see what other build ideas people come up with to help leverage Hurtful.
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Fate's Favored/Sacred Tattoo is a good combination. I'll probably have a hard time finding something mechanically better than that.
I'm torn on the stats. Brawlers, like Monks, seem like they'll have trouble hitting, especially once flurry and power attack get factored in. +3 to hit at 2nd level is not great. They get a few things to help that Monks don't (like Brawling Armor), but without any way to self buff or weapon training, he'll still be lagging behind most martials for the majority of his PFS career. So that was the thought behind the 19 STR. It gets him to 20 at level 4, which should jump to 22 from a belt right around there or soon after, which will help offset the additional power attack penalty.
I do get what you're saying about the armor, especially since he'll have to use his neck slot on an amulet of mighty fists and doesn't get Wis to AC like a Monk (not that it matters with a 10 Wis).
Can Brawling be put on Mithral medium armor? If so, I'd probably go for a Mithral Agile Breastplate. Otherwise, yeah, his AC will be limited.
EDIT: Brawling in mithral medium armor seems dubious. Mark Seifert weighed in with a tentative probably not. Plus, I'd have to work Medium Armor Proficiency in somewhere. Maybe the higher Dex is the way to go.
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You could use a Mithral Kikko without proficiency with no penaly, and Armor Expert Trait will let you use a mithral breastplate without penalty.
You only need proficiency to avoid an attack penalty equal to your ACP, and both armors have an ACP of 0 when mithral.
You still couldn't use brawling armor though.
And you'll probably want Boar Style. It's great for unarmed intimidate builds.
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I spotted THIS THREAD on the rules forum that is discussing some interesting combinations with Hurtful. I thought it might be of interest.
I'll have to think about the armor. Being able to get Brawling is a big boost to his offensive output.
Boar Style looks interesting. I was originally thinking maybe Dragon Style. At 6th level I'd be able to pick up the first two feats in the Boar Style chain with Martial Flexibility, since I plan to max Intimidate. Dragon Ferocity poses a problem, as I'd have to either take Stunning Fist at some point or actually take Dragon Style as one of my permanent feats (so I could then Martial Flexibility for Stunning Fist and Dragon Ferocity). I'm planning to max Acrobatics, so that part won't be an issue. Then, there's always Pummeling Style/Charge to think about. Earliest he could use that combo would be 8th as a pure Brawler.
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Giving up Brawling for Medium Armor is trading +2 each to hit and damage for a max +2 AC (I guess +3 at some GP amounts). That's worse than Combat Expertise, and a bad trade.
And it's not like I'm suggesting not putting your level up points into Str or something. Starting with 18 and going up from there is very reasonable.
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Updated build
Name: Stelio
Race: Half-Orc
Class/Level: Brawler 1
STR: 18
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 10
HP: 13
AC: 16 Touch AC: 12 Flat AC: 14
Fort: +6 Ref: +6 Will: +2
Init +2 BAB: +1 CMB: +5 CMD: 17
Attacks:
Unarmed Strike: +5 (1d6+4)
Whip: +5 (1d3+4)
Javelin +3 (1d6+4)
Traits:
Fates Favored: +1 to any Luck bonus
Bad Reputation +2 Intimidate
Racial Traits:
City-Raised: +2 Know: Local, Proficient with Whip and Longsword
Sacred Tattoo: +1 luck bonus to all saves
Darkvision: 60'
Intimidating: +2 on Intimidate
Feats:
1: Enforcer
B: Improved Unarmed Strike
Planned:
B2: Power Attack
3: Hurtful
5: Intimidating Prowess
B5: Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
7: Weapon Specialization: Unarmed Strike
Class Abilities:
Unarmed Damage: 1d6
Martial Flexibility: 4/day
Brawler's Cunning: Count as 13 Int for prereqs
Martial Training: Count Brawler Level as Fighter/Monk level for prereqs
Skills: Acrobatics +5, Intimidate: +8, Know: Local +6, Perception +4
Equipment: Chain Shirt, Whip, Javelins (2), MWK Backpack, 50' Silk Rope, Grappling Hook, Rations 7 days, Traveler's Outfit, Potion of Enlarge Person, Oil of Magic Weapon, Alchemist's Fire, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, wayfinder
748 gp
By 7th level, I'd plan to have: Brawling Chain Shirt +1 (4,250gp), Cruel Amulet of Mighty Fists (4,000gp), Belt of Giant Strength +2 (4,000gp), Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone (4,000gp), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (5,000gp) or Ring of Protection +1 (2,000) giving him something like:
Unarmed Strike Flurry w/Power Attack: +8/+8/+3/+8(Hurtful attack) (1d8+13) plus free Demoralize, plus Sickened on 2nd hit.
Intimidate: +19 (possibly a little higher pending equipment like a masterwork tool or cracked ioun stone for a competence bonus)
AC: 20 (or 19 if Jingasa is replace with Ring of Protection for cost)
Not great to-hit or damage numbers, but things like potions/oils or scrolls of Heroism and Magic Weapon/Fang could be in the mix. Not great AC either. A Monk's Robe could eventually be purchased, though it's unclear if it works for a Brawler). I could forgo actually using Power Attack when I have trouble hitting, but then the damage is even worse.
Man, I'm starting to think the Brawler, even with full BAB, isn't an improvement on the Monk in melee. Monks at least get Wis to AC, Ki to AC or for an extra attack, and Barkskin by way of Qinggong.
The Intimidating part of the build at least seems to work, with being able to likely get to at least a +23 using cheap mundane and magic items. With Enforcer, he just needs to succeed on the Demoralize. It doesn't really matter by how much, since the duration is based on damage, and with a +13, one hit will likely make an opponent Shaken for the rest of the combat.
^Kudos for a build that doesn't dump something.
^Kudos for a build that doesn't dump something.
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You know, I was just about to suggest lowering some stats to squeeze out a bit more Con. In reading your comment I remembered how much I used to hate that when other people would do it. Can't recall what changed for me.
It's a good build and looks fun to play. I have a player that made an order of the blue rose cavalier/inquisitor who focuses on non-lethal damage and intimidation. I actually have the shaken condition penalties in parentheses on each monster I build now because of how much easier it is to have those numbers on hand.