Harlequin's Hurlbat


Open Call: Design a magic armor, weapon, ring, rod, or staff

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8 aka Cathara

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Harlequin’s Hurlbat
Aura Moderate Illusion and Transmutation; CL 7th
Slot None; Price 45,000; Weight 2 lb.

Description
A well balanced steel hurlbat bound in colorful ribbons that catch the eye, it creates a distinctive whistle as it spins through the air.

This +1 returning hurlbat feels most at home in the hands of a performer. The wielder can attempt a DC 15 Perform (juggle) check as a standard action and can maintain it as a move action on subsequent rounds. Activation conjures three +1 hurlbats each with a range of 30 feet and affects the wielder with a mirror image spell creating 1d4+2 illusory doubles.

The wielder can throw a conjured hurlbat as a standard action. A struck opponent takes damage normally and must make a DC 15 Will Save or be dazed for one round as the bright ribbons disorientate them. When all three conjured hurlbats are thrown or the performance ends the mirror image doubles and conjured hurlbats disappear.

This effect may be activated 3 times per day.

A bard wielding this weapon gains the martial weapon proficiency: hurlbat; and increases the save DC for any bardic performance using this weapon by +2.

Construction Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, abundant ammunition, daze, mirror image, telekinesis; Cost 22,500 gp

Designer , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

Wording issues, Price/Cost don't match. First off, hurlbats are intentionally sharp on every edge and you can barely even use them in melee without cutting yourself. For a while, I had thought the mirror image was at-will, until I realized the hanging daily uses probably scoped over the whole ability, and not just the daze. Having the uses appear at the end like that is just begging for confusion, or a player trying to claim they can use the first power without limit, so it should have come sooner. I would have also preferred if it didn't grant proficiency and worked for all performances, as that would have opened the door to the item being awesome for skalds, who have performances but also have martial weapon proficiency, thus creating an expanded niche. Vote to Reject.

Webstore Gninja Minion , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Hi there! I'll be one of the judges for this round, and I'll be looking at a couple of key points for your item: flavor, usability, and how the item is presented. For some background, I helped found the Wayfinder fanzine before I started working for Paizo, and I oversee every third-party Pathfinder Roleplaying Game product that makes its way onto Paizo.com.
Flavor
Harlequin-themed items are always fun, but run the risk of being overly cliched. I like the illusory and daze effects—it works well with my expectations of the item's name.
Usability
Good for PCs and NPCs, potential use for non-combat situations.
Presentation
I would have increased the DC of the Perform check, given how hurlbats are constructed. Missing a line break between "Construction" and "Requirements." The class-specific mechanic bonus is an immediate turn-off; it unnecessarily restricts more flavorful options from being accessed by other classes.
Final Thoughts
Despite my reservations, I think that some of the errors in this item are fixable. I do recommend this item for advancement, with some reservations.

Designer , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

Kept.

Scarab Sages Modules Overlord

My approach to judging these items is "How would I approach this as a developer?" If I would be pleased by the turnover and not see any reason to give negative feedback to the writer, that's great! If I'd keep it but it would take a lot of work or I'd want to let the writer know what needed improvement, that's fine but not perfect. If I'd scrap the item because it would be faster to write new material myself, that's bad.

Mechanically, this is a mess. For example, the cost of a magic weapon or suit of armor is NOT half the price. It is instead the full nonmagic cost (including the item itself, it's masterwork value, and any special material cost), plus half the magic cost. If we assume this should be 45,000 gp worth of magic abilities, the price should be 45,302 gp (adding 302 gp for the cost of a masterwork dagger), and the cost 22,802 (adding the masterwork dagger cost to half the magic cost). The abilities need to be presented better, and I'm not a fan of how tight its niche is.
All that said, it's a fun concept, and one I'd be happy to see if I had to develop 32 magic items and was running low of neat ideas myself. If I didn't need it, I might not bother, but it would be worth rewriting this over coming up with something of my own. The spark of idea here is Superstar, the rules-fu isn't. That barely edges into my keep pile.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

Congrats Allana! Your item was a last minute addition to my keep pile. I liked the idea of how juggling creates more hurlbats and the mirror images. The mechanics needed some work, but it seems like a fun item.

Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

There were a couple of jester items in this year that I saw, and pretty much upvoted them all when I did because they were different and well done. This one in particular I recall enjoying quite a bit. Others with better mechanical knowledge than I have already weighed in their thoughts, and I don't have anything to add, but just wanted to note that I think you hit on something with this item, and I hope you stick with things!

Perhaps I'll get to see your map in the next round, depending on how things work out!

Great job, and congratulations!

Dedicated Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9

Rats are doing the Conga for you, all over Golarion. Good job.

Dedicated Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

I think my biggest concern is that only bards gain free proficiency, would probably be better to give it to anyone with ranks in perform or that have performance abilities.

Otherwise I like the way this item works, I does some cool and useful stuff but nothing crazy or overpowering.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

First of all, congratulations, Allana.

I have to admit, I had a bit of a visceral reaction to this, similar to the one I had for the fool's scepter. While I remember loving the 2nd edition jester, now it just takes me out of my suspension of disbelief.

That said, I actually really liked the powers, which I thought were a neat suite. It made sense with the juggling aspect and I felt like in the right context would make a neat weapon. It was impressive that you were able to overcome my aversion to the name and item description.

I'm sure it's frustrating being so close to the Top 32, but knowing you have to hope someone else messes up or doesn't submit. Buckle down and focus on making the best map you can, though, and best of luck!

Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9

Congrats! Your item was one of the two jester-themed items I consistently voted up. I think the rules description could use some reworking to improve clarity, but I really liked the abilities and the theme. And like others had mentioned, I'd wished you'd've granted the weapon proficiency based on ranks in a Perform skill or the Performance class ability.

Don't be discouraged by being "only" an Alternate... being in the Top 36 is something to wear proudly. So buckle down, get the sugar and caffeine on a drip feed, and do your best for Round 2! Good luck. :)

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka Morphemic

This was the best of a few items based on mirror image in this competition. The first few times I saw it, I didn't know what to think of it since a juggling theme is quite unusual. But after I found myself voting for it nearly every time, I started to really like it. The rules language needs to be cleaned up a little, but the overall collection of powers is well-balanced and interesting.

Congratulations!

Marathon Voter Season 8

Congratulations on making it to the Top 36!

This was the only item in the Top 32 and alternatives that I didn't encounter during my voting, though it did see it when trading keep lists. And unfortunately I have to admit that it didn't do anything for me. It took me three or four reads to even get what the item does and I'm not a huge fan of the jester/harlequin theme.

I do like the idea of a throwing weapon that creates copies of itself, but the whole juggling and mirroring thing dilutes it needlessly. That being said, I could see many bards wanting to use this, once it has been polished up a bit more. So kudos for you for the idea, if nothing else. Keep up the good work and the best of luck for the future!

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 8

Congratulations, Allana! I really liked this item, it made me think of the weapon throwing contests at Renn Faires. I want this item in real life, never mind just Pathfinder play. Great job!

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8 aka Cathara

Thanks everyone! I must admit as soon as I posted it I began thinking I should have nixed the Bard aspect and given the free proficiency to anyone with the Perform ranks.

Glad people liked it and I'll work on my wording next time!

Star Voter Season 6

Fun item!
Interesting use of performance in combat.
English teacher nitpick:
the use of the British "disorientate" rather than the American "disorient."

Congrats on Top 36! :)

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8 aka Cathara

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lady Firedove wrote:

Fun item!

Interesting use of performance in combat.
English teacher nitpick:
the use of the British "disorientate" rather than the American "disorient."

Congrats on Top 36! :)

Australian English teacher apology! :) That one slipped through, I didn't realise the US had a different spelling.

Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Congratulations on making Alternate! Well done!

I liked this weapon a lot and up-voted it far more than down. But the image of juggling pins and throwing them in battle is limited in appropriateness for action-adventure stories. Really only good when you are dealing with a performance of some sort that turns into a fight. Still, very well made.


Allana Sliwinski wrote:

Harlequin’s Hurlbat

Aura Moderate Illusion and Transmutation; CL 7th
Slot None; Price 45,000; Weight 2 lb.

Description
A well balanced steel hurlbat bound in colorful ribbons that catch the eye, it creates a distinctive whistle as it spins through the air.

This +1 returning hurlbat feels most at home in the hands of a performer. The wielder can attempt a DC 15 Perform (juggle) check as a standard action and can maintain it as a move action on subsequent rounds. Activation conjures three +1 hurlbats each with a range of 30 feet and affects the wielder with a mirror image spell creating 1d4+2 illusory doubles.

The wielder can throw a conjured hurlbat as a standard action. A struck opponent takes damage normally and must make a DC 15 Will Save or be dazed for one round as the bright ribbons disorientate them. When all three conjured hurlbats are thrown or the performance ends the mirror image doubles and conjured hurlbats disappear.

This effect may be activated 3 times per day.

A bard wielding this weapon gains the martial weapon proficiency: hurlbat; and increases the save DC for any bardic performance using this weapon by +2.

Construction Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, abundant ammunition, daze, mirror image, telekinesis; Cost 22,500 gp

Disclaimer:

This post constitutes the views of a CE inclined Very Advanced succubus. For those uncertain what that should imply, congratulations, you're at least thinking along the right track, but probably not worried enough. No: almost certainly, not nearly worried enough. Unless you happen to be that glovier from Magnimar that I had for tea last weekend, in which case it's a bit too late now anyway, but my apologies to your next-of-kin for the scorch marks on your hall carpet (but I *DID* put the tablecloth in to soak in good time, so the wine stains *should* come out).

Is the Item Decorative?
It's a lump of steel. The person presenting the item seems more interested in describing how it can be used to attempt to crudely brutalize targets with, rather than indicating it to be in anyway attractive to look at. The best which might be said about it is that there is a vague mention of 'colorful ribbons', although the presence of colour in and of itself is no indication of a successful decorative feature. There are, after all, some truly garish colour combinations that certain self-proclaimed 'artists' (whose artistic abilities it would be doing most dretches a disservice to make a comparison to) slap onto pieces of 'work' in the erroneous belief that that will somehow render said works more enticing (whilst instead of course producing a rather nauseating effect).
Anyway, any mark awarded for decorative value of this item must - in the absence of specific data - be kept to a minimum.
Decorative score? 1 out of 7.

Does the Item have Any Obvious non-Decorative Use Around the Home?
Well, some rather gauche dinner parties sometimes feature 'entertainment' where a good deal of ichor, blood, or other fluids normally present within a body are splattered liberally all over the place (including sometimes over guests). 'Entertainers' who self-mutilate themselves attempting to juggle an item such as this would have a certain rather crude appeal at such functions. Such things aren't to my own tastes, however, and I hesitate over giving this item a negative score in this category, in consequence, only because I know Tanar'ri who actually do appreciate 'that sort of thing'.
non-Decorative Domestic Use score? 0 out of 7.

Does the Item seem Likely to be Helpful in the Fantasy Setting of an Imaginary World where 'Operation Sealion' is taking Place?
So the (for simplicity's sake) Nasties are lining up with all their little boats to launch an invasion-attempt across a strait upon a nation of perfectly (socially) harmless tea-drinkers. And then there's this item.
So what impact is this item likely to have on proceedings?
Well the tea-drinkers would of course recognise at once how utterly useless the item is in such an operation, and would thus launch a deception operation to convince the leader of the 'Nasties' to commit vast time and resources to the manufacture and outfitting of his troops with these 'wonder-weapons'. By the time that the 'Nasty' leader had finished placing orders and buying up the available ribbon supplies, there'd be a lot less material and money left to go around for useful things like aerial war-machines. Or armoured boats. Or ammunition for 'real' [by the imaginary world's standards] ranged-weapons.
'Sealion' score? 6 out of 7.

Total: 7 out of 21.

Further Disclaimer:
Sighting of a post by 'Ask A RPGSupersuccubus' is by no means a guarantee that any further posts will be forthcoming anywhere, in this contest. Voters should obviously vote for whomever (if anyone) they feel like voting for.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Congratulations on making alternate Allana!

I really like the direction you took this item. My 2013 entry to RPG Superstar was an item with bard synergy, so I can appreciate your effort here.

With that said, it sounds like you already know the better route would have been to make the proficiency usable with skill use instead of class-specific. That you thematically linked the weapon's use with a skill is an interesting use of the design space and one I'd like to see developed further.

You made some great thematic choices, and I'd love to see where you would go with revisions of this item. Well done!

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka JoelF847

Congrats on making the alternates.

Overall, this is a flavorful item, but mechanically it's not terribly innovative. It's essentially combining two different spells in a can, mirror image and abundant ammunition, and while a great idea for a jester style thrown weapon user, this feel more like an item that could be in a book of items, but not quite crossing the threshold of superstar for me.

A few specific things: I'd change the requirement from daze to daze monster, since the hurlbat can affect any creature it hits, not just humanoids (also, a cantrip as a requirement is almost like not having a requirement).

Also, what's the stop a user from simply not throwing the third conjured hurlbat, and having the mirror image effect last indefinitely until the images themselves are popped. I'd include a hard duration for the effect if they're not all used.

Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

You can see my full commentary on your item on my dedicated critique thread here.

To understand my method of commenting, you'll likely need to read the first entry.

Marathon Voter Season 8

Disclaimer:
So, I am making a point to comment on every item in the competition now, and I it is no longer kosher to start a thread just for your own comments. So, here we are.

Why am I critiquing every item? Well, frankly, I love this sort of thing. I sincerely enjoy editing and the art of the critique. I have long considered starting a blog to that end, and maybe this will be the kickstart I need. Speaking of which, if you want to hire an editor, I'd be happy to help ;)

Regardless, the point of my criticism is always to help. Nothing is perfect, so everything can potentially be made better. My comments will often be less than flattering, but they will never come from a place of malice. The point here is to make your item better, not to make you feel bad.

So, what am I looking for, here, when I judge these items? My primary focus is on rules knowledge, clarity/simplicity, and usability. You can come up with the most creative item on the planet, but if nobody is going to actually use it in a real game, who cares? And it doesn't matter if nobody uses it because it's obviously too strong, too weak for its price, too confusing/complicated to actually adjudicate at the table, or just too niche to have an actual target audience. What I am generally not looking at is flavor text. Descriptions of your item will only hurt if the item evokes imagery I dislike. I care about theme, of course, but a crow item with blind and pilfering hand in it is thematic enough--I don't need to read about different kinds of dark wood were used and how many crow parts are sticking out of it.

Finally, know that I did not read any critiques of your item yet. These are all my first thoughts based only on the item itself, so, I apologize if I repeat things others have said already.

Now, let's get to the critique!

I didn't love this item for a few reasons. For one, the juggling thing is just...too silly for my tastes For another, it's just too limited. It's a throwing weapon designed to let you make full throwing attacks, but you can only turn it on 3 times per day, and it'll only last 1-3 rounds at a time. For 45k, why would I bother? It can't be my main weapon, it has to be a "sometimes" weapon, which means that's just WAY too much money. By the time my backup weapon can be 45k, a +1 weapon isn't going to be especially relevant anymore.

Then, you further limit it by requiring Perform (Juggling). That's not even a good Perform skill for a Bard, because it isn't used by Versatile Performance.

Finally, you have this confusing weird addition of adding +2 to the DC of bardic music that utilizes the weapon--the weapon has no indication whatsoever that it can be used with bardic performances. Most performances, in fact, have no such requirement. The only ones I can think of that actually interact with performance skills/items (like instruments) are Distraction and Countersong, which have no DC.

If my party found it, even if I am playing a Bard (and I love Bards), I would sell it because it's insanely too expensive and there's no way any of us would have Perform (Juggling) anyway. Some super niche characters might custom order it to fit their theme, but they'd be worse off doing so.

Sorry, I don't like it overall.

Edit: Wow, it's even worse than I thought it was. I totally missed the line about taking Standard action to throw a conjured hurlbat. That means it's not even good for full attacks, it's only good for wasting your turn each round on trying to make your enemy waste their turn with a much too easy will save. 45k to try and cancel out turns with a bad guy a few rounds per day is so much worse than just a creative way to get full throwing attacks.

Star Voter Season 8

mplindustries wrote:
I didn't love this item for a few reasons. For one, the juggling thing is just...too silly for my tastes For another, it's just too limited. It's a throwing weapon designed to let you make full throwing attacks, but you can only turn it on 3 times per day, and it'll only last 1-3 rounds at a time.

Just pointing out a mechanical error: returning does not let you make full attacks with a thrown weapon. It returns the weapon to you just before the start of your next turn.

There are two ways to make full attacks with a thrown weapon:

  • Have enough thrown weapons on hand and the Quick Draw feat.
  • Give up your belt slot (where your much desired physical stat boosts go) for a blinkback belt. And the Quick Draw feat.

The belt is very cheap (5000gp), but that's likely because giving up the belt slot really, really hurts when you're not a caster.

So either way; It's one attack per round with a returning weapon.

Marathon Voter Season 8

Raynulf wrote:
Just pointing out a mechanical error: returning does not let you make full attacks with a thrown weapon. It returns the weapon to you just before the start of your next turn.

Oh, I am well aware. I actually made an item specifically to address that.

No, that line of my critique came when I read too quickly and didn't realize it took a Standard action to throw a conjured hurlbat.

I was assuming you'd throw the main returning one, then a conjured non-returning one with your iteratives. So, if you had two attacks, it'd last 3 rounds, since you could throw the main one once and the three copies once each. If you had three attacks per round, it'd only last two rounds, so you could hit all three the first round and twice the second.

But obviously, I brainfarted and missed the standard action thing, which screws up even this minor full attack benefit.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8 aka Cathara

mplindustries wrote:
Raynulf wrote:
Just pointing out a mechanical error: returning does not let you make full attacks with a thrown weapon. It returns the weapon to you just before the start of your next turn.

Oh, I am well aware. I actually made an item specifically to address that.

No, that line of my critique came when I read too quickly and didn't realize it took a Standard action to throw a conjured hurlbat.

I was assuming you'd throw the main returning one, then a conjured non-returning one with your iteratives. So, if you had two attacks, it'd last 3 rounds, since you could throw the main one once and the three copies once each. If you had three attacks per round, it'd only last two rounds, so you could hit all three the first round and twice the second.

But obviously, I brainfarted and missed the standard action thing, which screws up even this minor full attack benefit.

As with anything it comes down to tactical usage :)

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Phloid

I completed the edit you asked me to do on Phloid's Unofficial "Edit My Item" Thread. You will find here.

Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9

Allana Sliwinski wrote:
Harlequin’s Hurlbat

Congratulations Allana,

I liked the imagery on this one and have often played with mirror images giving copies of oneself to mess with (not just to confuse attacks). Juggling hurlbats played nicely into this image. I was confused by much of the wording, but got through it with enough readings.

Good luck next year. :)

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