There are about 780,000 police officers in the US, there are about 44,000 loggers. So for every logger that dies on the job, you would need about 18 cops to die to have similar numbers. In 2012 64 loggers died, that would be 1150 cops. In 2012 295 soldiers died in Afghanistan, and there were between 68,000 and 100,000 stationed there. That is significantly higher rate of a death rate than in logging.
Logging deaths
Deaths in Afghanistan
Number of soldiers in AfghanistanThe numbers are in various places in those articles.
That seems reasonable. It means being a cop is safer than being a logger. It means being a soldier is safer than being a logger, but being a soldier stationed in Afghanistan is more dangerous than being a logger.
Stats also get warped, because an aircraft carrier would be in combat operations, but less than 10% of the crew is actually in danger, flight crews and deck crews, and all their escort ships aren't in any more danger than normal.
In the US, police forces have been known to reject applicants who score too highly on social service exams for being too smart. They argue smart people are more likely to leave the field. My guess is that smarter people are less likely to put up with the corruption.
I suspect it's the high standards and excellent training that keeps the police, soldiers and firefighters off the list, not the nature of the job.Yeah, that's not happening in Aus. Our police force requires tertiary education to enter now days, and generally they won't recruit you unless you have some experience behind you as well. Very few people get recruited fresh out of school and uni.
We still have corruption though, sigh.
The more I read in this thread and the more you guys tell me how things are done in America, the less it seems to gel with the image of American forces we get presented with in Australia.
Kinda glad I live here now, even if the entire continent is trying to kill us.
A few years back I was talking to a Victorian police officer over some brawling I may have been involved in. We were about the same age. I was amused to find out, we both had arts degrees.
Pretty big reason I don't deal with the cops. Sure, most of them actually aren't corrupt or overzealous, but a fair number are, and they can cause a lot of harm.
Any cop that doesn't arrest their corrupt coworkers are themselves corrupt, arbitrarily applying the law as it fits them.
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As for the other professions I mentioned. All of them have operational procedures in place to prevent injury and death. Nearly all the incidents that occur in them that I've had experience with happened because those procedures weren't being followed..
That does not mean the workers where at fault. In several different fields I've worked (nature conservation, bartending/serving, even newspaper delivery, there's been safety regulations that have often been ignored/not followed. In none of the fields have this predominantly been due to ignorance or laziness - rather the workers are forced to work at such a tempo they don't have time to follow the regulations.
As a concrete example, a coworker of mine got quite a scalding at the restaurant's dishwasher due to removing plates immediately when the machine stopped running (and water was still running down the sides). There was a safety regulation to wait 3 minutes after the machine has stopped running, and so the company blamed her. However, our tempo was extremely high and stressed out (our bosses had enacted a "never stand, never empty hands" rule for example - you were supposed to never for a second stop your movement, and always carry something) and there was no way in hell to wait those three minutes before getting the plates out for the kitchen to use. No-one was able to follow that regulatin, and she was just the unlucky one to be the first to scald herself enough to need medical attention (not very severe, but had to get treatment).
So it's not nearly so simple as "were regulations followed". It's got a lot more to do with "are the workers given the tools and time necessary to safely do their work", which more often than not is answered by a big fat "NO!".
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Well, in regards to the Utah thing, some of you may love this article...or hate it.
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I hereby invite all such folk who wish to make armchair judgements to either watch the move or read the book entititled "Serpico".Pretty big reason I don't deal with the cops. Sure, most of them actually aren't corrupt or overzealous, but a fair number are, and they can cause a lot of harm.Any cop that doesn't arrest their corrupt coworkers are themselves corrupt, arbitrarily applying the law as it fits them.
Sure, if you're a decent cop living under the threat of murder from the police institution I'd agree that they're not necessarily corrupt for not reporting it - being actively threatened by a militant mob that will get away with anything clearly changes things - but one can't at the same time claim it's a few rotten apples and that "decent cops" are under a huge systemic threat by the police institution.
So, yes, if one agrees that the police institution is a violent and dangerous group that is rotten to the core and who's main goal is to perpetuate their own power to the point where they can maim their own members to do so, individual policemen might be exempt from being considered corrupt; you're basically in the same situation as a hitman in the mafia that can't quit due to the threat of harm to you or your family. But if one agrees with that, it seems like our attitude towards the police should reflect that - they should be treated like the mafia; we should give help to those that seek to quit, but as long as you remain a hitman for the mafia, you're for all practical purposes my enemy, no matter what your philosophical stance is or why you joined in the first place or why you can't leave now.
We don't try to argue that well there's plenty of good guys in the mafia too. There might be individual exceptions, but if they were many enough, the system wouldn't remain. Likewise with the police.
Over the weekend a dispatcher received a call of a 12 y/o pulling a gun from his waistband and pointing it at people... also that the gun was probably fake.
Just to be safe, the police shot him.
I hereby invite all such folk who wish to make armchair judgements to either watch the move or read the book entititled "Serpico".Pretty big reason I don't deal with the cops. Sure, most of them actually aren't corrupt or overzealous, but a fair number are, and they can cause a lot of harm.Any cop that doesn't arrest their corrupt coworkers are themselves corrupt, arbitrarily applying the law as it fits them.
Let me see if I can understand your implication...
First the givens:
1) people are judging cops
2) some cops are not turning in corrupt cops
3) cops who do whistleblow are sometimes targeted for retaliation by corrupt cops
Your conclusion: We shouldn't be hard on the good cops, because if they try to turn in the bad cops they could get killed.
Does that sum it up?
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Frank Serpico is still living with the effects of the bullet wounds he suffered as an NYPD whistleblower. What I'm saying is that one can't blithely assume that to blow the whistle is a simple decision to be judged simply.I hereby invite all such folk who wish to make armchair judgements to either watch the move or read the book entititled "Serpico".Pretty big reason I don't deal with the cops. Sure, most of them actually aren't corrupt or overzealous, but a fair number are, and they can cause a lot of harm.Any cop that doesn't arrest their corrupt coworkers are themselves corrupt, arbitrarily applying the law as it fits them.Let me see if I can understand your implication...
First the givens:
1) people are judging cops
2) some cops are not turning in corrupt cops
3) cops who do whistleblow are sometimes targeted for retaliation by corrupt copsYour conclusion: We shouldn't be hard on the good cops, because if they try to turn in the bad cops they could get killed.
Does that sum it up?
I understand that it's not easy and can be dangerous. That simple fact is itself part of the problem.
Police officers are supposed to protect our communities. That includes protecting them from fellow officers who behave badly. It is literally part of their job to stop their fellow officers from breaking the law, because those officers are not exempt from the law.
I said it earlier in the thread, I could really care less about any reason cops give for why they don't turn in or investigate their fellow officers. There is no excuse. They have a sworn duty to uphold the law. If they aren't comfortable holding themselves to that standard, I'm not sure that we as the public should be supporting them and giving them their authority.
They are public servants. They are responsible for keeping their house clean. When they don't, the public has a right to point it out.
The problem with being a whisteblower cop is that being a police oficer isn't about just fulfilling the requirements of the job. It's being immersed in a culture in which you are supposed to be sticking up with your fellow officers.
Part of this is certainly justified, it can be a dangerous job at times and you are expected to cover each other's back.
The problem is that it gets extended to the point where you're supposed to overlook what are considered "lesser evils" or more insidiously, collecting due. It starts with small things such as policemen expecting free meals at diners, and esclates to payoffs. Becoming a whistelblower frequently leaves you in a very alone place, with frequently no real support.
This argument is 100% exclusionary of #notallcops. If this is the argument that they want to make, then it should come as no surprise that the entire civilian population thinks they are a bunch of self-serving murder conspirators and accessories.
It happened in Canada, but...
Officer hits a family in vehicle collision.
Officer was traveling at 122 km/h in a 50km/h zone. (75mph in a 30mph)
Officer was in an unmarked vehicle, with no flashing lights.
Officer was not responding to an emergency or chasing a suspect.
A 5 year old in the car was killed. The father and sister were both badly injured.
Prosecutor's office has decided not to press charges on the officer. No explanation has been given (nor is one required by law).
I see law enforcement speeding all the time. I see them run red lights too. I've seen it in virtually every city I've lived in, which includes 4 different states, as well as many cities I've only visited. And by speeding, I mean travelling excessively fast (50% or more over the speed limit) without their lights on.