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Hey, guys. I'm writing up a piece on how to write homebrew cards, which may live on the site if we like it enough. Here's a draft. Let me know what you think, and please suggest ways to improve and expand it. Thanks!
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You can make your own cards for the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game by downloading the templates. Here are some guidelines for making cards of similar power level and compatibility to the ones in the game.
Start with a concept, such as “an underwater fortress,” “a divine alchemist,” or “a vampire monk.” You can borrow from Paizo books, real-world concepts, or other universes.
Then, for most types of cards, think of what adventure deck number that concept matches. If you imagine your concept as something only really powerful characters can deal with, then maybe a 5 or 6 is appropriate. If it’s something that anyone can handle, use B or 1. This decision will affect several aspects of your cards.
Depending on what type of card you’re creating, some additional guidelines might be useful.
STORY CARDS AND LOCATIONS
Adventure Paths list a set of adventures, usually at least 3. They should specify what happens to cards as the adventure progresses. You can have other Adventure Path powers, typically referring to things that happen between games.
Adventures need a set of scenarios, usually at least 3. We recommend that you specify an order, or it can be hard to keep track of which ones have been completed. Pick a reward that is on the level of “a card feat” or “a skill feat.”
Scenarios generally need at least one villain and some henchmen that are appropriate for the power level of your characters. Powers can be simple or complex; think of something that sets your scenario apart from others and implement it. Your location list should have eight locations, unless you’re doing something wacky. Be careful when setting rewards; you don’t want to give out too much for success.
Locations should have fairly simple powers for all of the boxes. Watch the difficulty on noncombat checks to close locations, as these do not scale well. If you want a power that continues after closing, put it on the front as well.
CHARACTERS
Characters should be tightly balanced against the ones in the box. Each character should start with 15 cards on her Card List. Add up the dice in the character’s skills; if it’s more than 42, you’re probably aiming too high. The character should have no more than 1d12 in her skills. She should have 15 skill feat checkboxes, 10 card feat checkboxes, and 4 power feat checkboxes on her character card.
Roles should have 12 power feat checkboxes each, including those for the powers on the characters they advance. Save your craziest powers for the roles.
Tokens should have intriguing backstories that make you want to play the characters again and again.
BANES AND BOONS
Monsters and barriers should scale in difficulty against the ones in the box. For noncombat checks, a good baseline difficulty is 6 to 10 plus twice the adventure deck number. For combat checks, consider a difficulty of around 8 to 12 plus 3 times the adventure deck number. You can start adding monsters and barriers with two or three checks after adventure 3 or so. The powers should be reasonably simple through adventure 3, and then start getting more bizarre.
Henchmen should be around 3 to 5 points tougher than the average monster you can imagine in your scenario. They should say they give a chance to close the location, unless they don’t.
Villains can have difficulties of as much as 10 higher than your average monster. They should always have something special about encountering them.
Boons should have checks to acquire in the neighborhood of 4 to 8 plus twice the adventure deck number. Watch out for boons that can only be acquired by skills which not all characters have. If a boon has a recharge check, aim for about 2 more than the check to acquire.
Loot should be pretty darn awesome.
Awesome! I'm an avid homebrewer for any system or game I get my hands on, and PACG is no exception. The templates will definitely come in handy!
I am using the magic set editor linked to in this thread. Vic also gives the official fonts in that thread.
Mike, the guidelines seem great to me. I appreciate the additional insight offered.
Thanks! Definitely interested in any questions or insights from those of you who've made custom cards. Is this what you expected, or is there more this article can provide?
Thanks! Definitely interested in any questions or insights from those of you who've made custom cards. Is this what you expected, or is there more this article can provide?
It is difficult to make cards without art. Can you supply links to any available art assets we can use besides those we make ourselves?
I think maybe some advice are on some more advice on characters might be nice. They are definitely the hardest. You and Chad said no more than +3 in an skill bonus and generally not with a d12. That was helpful. And maybe some advice on how to weigh the "cost" of a power vs the "benefit" of a power (both for character powers and boon powers).
A story in character creation I'll share was when trying to make a Bard for Calthaer. I was trying to work on something for him to do with Human allies (or really non-Animal allies). At first I was thinking of having him be able to discard them instead of banish them, because that seemed like it would be a great way to make you want to keep some of the allies. But then when I realized that Vern Vinder and Mayor Kendra Devrin would be crazy powerful if you had a chance to use them more than once a scenario, I had to abandon the idea. That made me realize the cost/reward of items that are banished was generally must lower than the cost/reward of allies that were banished.
I'm not sure exactly how I'd word what I learned there, maybe something about thinking about the cards a character power would effect or even saying something about being careful about mitigating the cost when the cost is banish. Not totally sure. It is just a though I wanted to share.
Also, all other things being equal: Would something that helped a combat check be more or less powerful than something that helps a non-combat check?
Is there any kind of rule of thumb about how powerful character powers are? I sort of feel like each characters has powers of varying degrees of impact. Which is fine. I think the more powerful powers help define the character more. But I'm not sure if you guys quantify them, or maybe even if that is just my personal play style showing its bias in how I view the powers.
Thanks again.
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Thanks! Definitely interested in any questions or insights from those of you who've made custom cards. Is this what you expected, or is there more this article can provide?It is difficult to make cards without art. Can you supply links to any available art assets we can use besides those we make ourselves?
I get nearly all of my art from DeviantArt.com, and I always, always make sure to credit the artist whenever I use their work even for private projects with friends.
Chief Technical Officer
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Thanks! Definitely interested in any questions or insights from those of you who've made custom cards. Is this what you expected, or is there more this article can provide?It is difficult to make cards without art. Can you supply links to any available art assets we can use besides those we make ourselves?
If you use our Community Use Policy, you can use images from the Paizo blog (and some other stuff spelled out on that page). Otherwise, as the Morphling points out, there are many users on DeviantART who offer up stuff for people to use freely—but check each user's licensing terms, because it's not *all* free!
I agree that some additional guidelines on character creation would be helpful. From my perspective I can easily playtest a bane or boon homebrew card to see if its over/under powered. With a character, there are just so many variables and not all of them will see play in a given scenario so trial and error testing is much more difficult.
Some things feel like they should "cost" more, melee skill bonuses versus acrobatics or craft bonuses, for example, but how much more is a bit harder to determine.
A story in character creation I'll share was when trying to make a Bard for Calthaer. I was trying to work on something for him to do with Human allies (or really non-Animal allies). At first I was thinking of having him be able to discard them instead of banish them, because that seemed like it would be a great way to make you want to keep some of the allies. But then when I realized that Vern Vinder and Mayor Kendra Devrin would be crazy powerful if you had a chance to use them more than once a scenario, I had to abandon the idea. That made me realize the cost/reward of items that are banished was generally must lower than the cost/reward of allies that were banished.
I like the concept. Maybe allow him to bury allies instead of banish them?
Some questions regarding character design:
1)How many powers should a starting character be limited to (including/ not including hand size and proficiencies)?
2)How many (sub)skills should a starting character be limited to? What should the maximum bonus be? What should the total maximum bonuses be?
3)Are any skills valued more highly from a balance perspective?
4)Are there any powers/ skills that should be used sparingly to maintain balance in comparison to scenario difficult?
5)Are there any powers that should be avoided? Anything the team thought of and decided to never include that type of power?
4)Any tips for balancing between the various combinations of powers /skills? For example, if you have 3 skills, one at +1, and two at +2, should you limit the character to only two powers plus hand size and proficiencies?
Regarding advice on the other cards in general, I would like to see the article address any pitfalls to avoid. Especially things that look good on the surface, but may be too good, or too difficult, in actual play.
A good example of this for me would be the temple and apothecary locations. They both have very good benefits for the characters, but they each have their drawbacks to keep them from being too good. Seeing the thought process behind the design of these cards, and the analysis of the drawbacks versus the benefits that were part of their design, could be very helpful for those of us looking to design our own.
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See this thread for a bit of guidance given before.
What about the skill limit guidelines for Characters that was mentioned in another thread?
I believe it was mentioned that characters should have no more than 5 skills and no more than total skill bonuses of +9. Is that still the recommended guideline?
What about the skill limit guidelines for Characters that was mentioned in another thread?
I believe it was mentioned that characters should have no more than 5 skills and no more than total skill bonuses of +9. Is that still the recommended guideline?
Thanks! Good information at that link as well. It certainly should be included in the upcoming article.
Question on the relative strength of Monsters/Henchman. According tou your guideline for monsters (3*adventure + 8-12), adventure 6 monsters should be 26-30. Further, Henchman are generally 3-5 over (29-35). However, Warden of Runes is only a 23 Combat check. I'm having trouble reconciling that big of a gap. Is it just because his powers are too strong? Do those numbers break down at higher adventures? Or is this a newer guideline because the first adventure came in with numbers that were too low?
Hi there. I'm just curious as to what template you found for MSE. I really haven't found all that much to use just yet so any help would be great.I actually just came back to post that I'd found a great template to make cards using MSE, which I'm super familiar with after making more than 2,000 magic cards for home games and custom draft sets.
This. Is. My. Lucky. Day. :D
I'm using the one linked to in this post. And I really hope WoodManZX is still around and will update it if/when new templates are added, because it is awesome and super helpful and he doesn't get enough credit for it.
There is also this one on BGG, but I haven't tried it.
Question on the relative strength of Monsters/Henchman. According tou your guideline for monsters (3*adventure + 8-12), adventure 6 monsters should be 26-30. Further, Henchman are generally 3-5 over (29-35). However, Warden of Runes is only a 23 Combat check. I'm having trouble reconciling that big of a gap. Is it just because his powers are too strong? Do those numbers break down at higher adventures? Or is this a newer guideline because the first adventure came in with numbers that were too low?Been a while since I've looked at that card, but I suspect that a low Combat Check could equate to a strong power(s). The weirder the power, the lower the Check should be to make up the difference of an annoying power.
A guideline for power in relation to traits and common powers might be useful too, like
Undead (cost 2): Monsters with this are immune to Mental and Poison
Veteran (cost Adventure Deck Number it starts in): Difficulty increased by Adventure Deck numberetc.
Maybe even a point cost from the base Combat Check to account for the powers, like (just hypothetical):
Basic +2 Combat Check
Expert + 1 Combat Check; to make up for their chance of being removed from play and suchPurely guestimates; but using the Combat range as a point pool to help build monster powers may be useful. Or maybe just any encounterable card for that matter.
At the very least a list of trait and their related powers would be helpful.
And therein lies the issue. That very well could be why the numbers would be what they are. That would make perfect sense, and was the assumption I was under. On the other hand, they could just be old numbers that have since been corrected in S&S (some of the large numbers we're already seeing in S&S make me worried that is the case). The fact that I'm not sure is why I'm stuck here. I could potentially make a case for any range of numbers between 24 and 34 being the standard baseline for monsters in a hypothetical set 7, and that's too wide of a range for me to be comfortable with.
(For reference, I've settled on around 26 for the baseline difficulty, since most have something very tricky, like Warden of Runes, and the ones that don't are closer to the 30/32 range).
Hey Mike,
I made a home-brew character, and I felt like she might be overpowered. However, after looking at the numbers you provided, I feel like she might actually be a little weak.
Serrica Undermoon
Female
Elf
GeomancerSTR D4 (+1) (+2)
DEX D4 (+1)
CON D10 (+1) (+2) (+3) (+4)
INT D4 (+1) (+2)
WIS D12 (+1) (+2) (+3) (+4)
CHA D8 (+1) (+2)Powers
Hand Size - 5 (6)For your combat check, you may discard (recharge) a card to roll your CON die + 1d4 with the attack and magic traits. This counts as playing a spell.
During any other player's turn, you may recharge a random card from your hand (discard pile) to move to another location with a character at it.
Proficient with: X Light Armors
CARDS LIST
Weapon --
Spell 5 (6) (7) (8)
Armour 1 (2) (3)
Item 1 (2)
Ally 4 (5) (6)
Blessing 4 (5)I also made her Roles and her token with storyline, but they're lengthy. Interested in any thoughts or help balancing her or making her more "geomancer-like".
I see right off the bat that she has no secondary skills what so ever (such as Fortitude, Arcane, etc..). Is this intentional?
You could try some kind of power or powers tied to locations, to get more of the geomancer feel. Like maybe a bonus for closIng locations? Or maybe at the start of your turn you display a blessing and add 1 or 2 to all checks at that location. Then you could keep stacking blessings the longer you stay there, recharging them when you move or close the location.
Play around with it and add power feats too.
I would think her first power would be better as:
For your combat check, you may discard (recharge) a card to roll your Fortitude Skill + 1d6 with the attack and magic traits. This counts as playing a spell.
This all sounds really interesting. I'd suggest you start a new thread for your character to keep everything in one place.
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Yeah, best to start a new thread, but I think maybe a +1 for just your checks to close seems a bit weak. Try a scenario with some other characters and see how it works out.
I've started working on adapting Carrion Crown for the PACG. It was the first Adventure Path I've ever GM'd from start to finish, so it holds a special place in my heart. Plus, the somewhat narrow focus of "gothic horror" makes for a fun challenge to adapt to the card game format.
Not sure if it's okay to share that stuff re: Paizo Community Use Policy, but I'd love to see what you've done anyway.
Adventures need a set of scenarios, usually at least 3. We recommend that you specify an order, or it can be hard to keep track of which ones have been completed. Pick a reward that is on the level of “a card feat” or “a skill feat.”
I kind of want to make adventures for my group's established characters, but obviously I can't award a card or skill feat without the characters becoming too powerful. So I'm thinking of something along the lines of "name a boon other than loot, then draw 3 random non-basic cards of that type from the box and pick one to keep, banish the others."
Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?
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Adventures need a set of scenarios, usually at least 3. We recommend that you specify an order, or it can be hard to keep track of which ones have been completed. Pick a reward that is on the level of “a card feat” or “a skill feat.”I kind of want to make adventures for my group's established characters, but obviously I can't award a card or skill feat without the characters becoming too powerful. So I'm thinking of something along the lines of "name a boon other than loot, then draw 3 random non-basic cards of that type from the box and pick one to keep, banish the others."
Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?
Well, are you planning on mixing your adventure with established characters and then allowing them to play in the Adventure Path again? The other question is if you are making this for the group's established characters (obviously of a certain advancement), are you designing the adventure for that level or for base characters?
Well, are you planning on mixing your adventure with established characters and then allowing them to play in the Adventure Path again? The other question is if you are making this for the group's established characters (obviously of a certain advancement), are you designing the adventure for that level or for base characters?
Yes, they would be adventures that established characters already on an Adventure Path would be able to participate in. I'd be designing the adventure for the level appropriate to the characters' advancement.
Thought of another possible reward - a card/skill/power feat respec.
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There is no hard and fast list, but these are the typical combinations:
Everyone has the following on their card:
Strength
Dexterity
Constitution
Intelligence
Wisdom
Charisma
The following are typical combinations:
Acrobatics: Dexterity
Arcane: Charisma (For Bards and Sorcerers)
Arcane: Intelligence (For Wizards and Witches)
Craft: Intelligence
Diplomacy: Charisma
Disable: Dexterity
Divine: Wisdom (For Druids, Paladins, and Warpriests)
Divine: Charisma (For Bards and Oracles)
Fortitude: Constitution
Knowledge: Intelligence
Melee: Strength
Perception: Wisdom
Ranged:Dexterity
Survival: Wisdom
Stealth: Dexterity
There are also a few examples of exceptions to those patterns, which make "thematic" sense. Vika, a fighter, is a Blacksmith and so she has Craft: Strength. Alahazra, an oracle, can gain Perception and Survival bases on her Charisma (she uses divine insight). Jirelle, a swashbuckler, can gain Craft based on Charisma (she intimidates her crew into doing it). Seltyiel, a magus, can gain Ranged based on Intelligence. RotR Valoers, a fighter, can gain Ranged based on Strength. CD Seoni can gain Craft based on Charisma. CD Qualzar can gain Stealth based on Charisma.
If you can come up with a thematic connection, then go with it.
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In case anyone isn't aware, I updated this post here.
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It does align with the RPG somewhat.
Note that all the "thematic connections" are power feats, except for Vika's Craft (and since Vika's Intelligence is a d4, it makes sense too). There are feats you can take in the RPG that allow you to substitute skills with different stats.
And the RPG skill alignment looks like this. Note the similarity with hawkmoon's table. "Disable" is "Disable Device".
Fortitude is an exception; in the RPG, it's not a skill, it's one of the 3 basic saves. But it's used in a similar way; PACG wise, there are checks you have to pass related to holding your breath or poison that require you to make a Constitution/Fortitude check or you have to bury cards. The reflex save is abstracted into the Acrobatics skill (some dragons have a Acrobatics check to prevent more damage with their breath weapon) and the willpower save is abstracted into Wisdom (some monsters have a Wisdom check).
The class skills in the RPG _don't_ always align with the class skills characters get, but that makes sense too. eg Jirelle is a Swashbuckler, but Survival is not a class skill for Swashbucklers. But she gets it because she needs to be able to fight ships well, and Survival is used for that.
Rogues tend to get at least 2 of the three Dex-based skills (Acrobatics, Disable, Stealth), Druids and Rangers tend to get either Perception or Survival or both, Bards and Wizards tend to get Knowledge (but not always), Bards and Sorcerers tend to get Diplomacy, etc. but there are always exceptions.
It does align with the RPG somewhat.
The class skills in the RPG _don't_ always align with the class skills characters get, but that makes sense too. eg Jirelle is a Swashbuckler, but Survival is not a class skill for Swashbucklers. But she gets it because she needs to be able to fight ships well, and Survival is used for that.
Rogues tend to get at least 2 of the three Dex-based skills (Acrobatics, Disable, Stealth), Druids and Rangers tend to get either Perception or Survival or both, Bards and Wizards tend to get Knowledge (but not always), Bards and Sorcerers tend to get Diplomacy, etc. but there are always exceptions.
Also, I feel that PACG Diplomacy is an amalgam of the RPG Bluff and Diplomacy skills, sometimes maybe even Intimidate, too.
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Another note in converting from the RPG is that Acrobatics is generally used in place of Reflex, and Will saves are equated to standard Wisdom checks. (I do kind of wish there was a Will skill, or something equivalent, just because that makes it feel weird, but I think the game is way too far along to add something like that at this point).
You know, I'd be interested in knowing how many copies of (my, any) custom card have sold, or even just the number of people (if they buy two or three copies).
I don't care for it in a "what card has sold the most?" kind of search ranking, but in an academic "hey I made a card people like!" way.
Is there a defined rule on how may points can be dispersed among the 5 different skill bonuses?
Mike shared his advice of 5/9 here. Chad has a few guidelines a few posts below that. Other than that, there are no real rules. It is really up to you to decide what you think is balanced.
Many people have posted there creations in this section of the forums asking for feedback and advice. I'm sure you'd get lots if you did the same.