Goblin Squad Member
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I can send out the accounts for the Guild ones. Aka 5 of 5 invitations sent and accepted. But I have yet to be able to assign the add-on accounts that I purchased to the individuals I would like them assigned too.
This is so weird. I pledged the same thing and don't remember the +35 add on account thing being an option. Wonder how I could of missed it. All I remember was 6 accounts for $500 pledge + add on extras like twice marked etc, but I don't remember a special +$35 add on for another account to the guild.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Might want to read it again. It clearly states that they will get access during the last month of EE.
There was an add-on once the pledge manager went live for 35$ for a pioneer level account that gets EE access. I have quite a few of these accounts purchased for my guildmembers and friends and I cannot understand why I have not yet been able to assign them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Direct Quote this time:
"$35
Adventurer Reward Tier
You have selected this "Cut for my privacy"
You can purchase additional Adventurer Reward Tier packages as Add-Ons. Each package of the Adventurer Reward Tier provides one Pathfinder Online account with all the bonuses and rewards described in the Adventurer Reward Tier. This is the perfect way to give a friend the gift of a Pathfinder Online subscription, along with all the special promotional bonuses and benefits of the Adventurer Reward Tier! Pathfinder Online accounts created with Adventurer Reward Tier add-ons will be invited to play during the last period of Early Enrollment, and will be eligible for Daily Deal items as of the date you increased your pledge by one or more $35 increments, not the date of your first eligibility. "
Keep in mind, this was an Add-On just like Twice touched of Pharasma. These accounts were in addition to my Guild Level package.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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No. The Land Rush is for folks who are Crowdforger Pioneers or equivalent. The Adventurers are getting a month's head start on OE as a perk, not being upgraded to Pioneer status.
If I understand correctly, there will be the Alpha soon for a very few selected players with high pledge, and then the first phase of EE approximately this summer if everything goes according to plan, and then the EE phase two, in August ?
I took this add-on : http://paizo.com/products/btpy94kb?Goblin-Squad-Pioneer-Month-Two, it means that I'm supposed to start paying around August 2014, if everything goes according to plan ?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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So instead of paying 35$ back in February, I need to have my members pay 100$ now in order to vote for our settlement.
If I understand the published order of forces properly, your members should not be voting for a settlement at all.
It is possible that I grossly misunderstand what the guild affiliation of "your members" is.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So instead of paying 35$ back in February, I need to have my members pay 100$ now in order to vote for our settlement.If I understand the published order of forces properly, your members should not be voting for a settlement at all.
It is possible that I grossly misunderstand what the guild affiliation of "your members" is.
You might. I made our intent post on another thread. Here is what Golgotha is as well as how we are moving forward.
Pax has made our statements to the respective Golgotha-Aeternum membership on how we wish to move forward.
In an effort for full disclosure, those statements are HERE as well as reiterated HERE and are readable at the visitor level.
Golgotha will be voting in the new land rush, but will do so via their own membership. What votes were lost via confused cross voting before this statement was issued is to be considered a permanent "loss".
Golgotha was it's own separate entity of merged CC's before we began alliance talks. They still exist as that separate entity as Pax Gaming members, they just have the ability to join us in our other games while this one is still prelaunch.
Pax Gaming takes developer EULA's and requests very seriously. I, Deacon Wulf, or Rawn (the lead chair of the Pax Community) as always available for developer discussions of violations of rules or the spirit of rules / requests.
The above is also pre Lee's clarification on entities bargaining for votes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for the clarification. I though that Golgatha and Aeternum were in the same chain of decision-making and shared the same community and overall leadership.
No problem
Aeternum and Golgotha have separate leadership councils which only join together on nation level matters where each settlement retains one vote. That is the same deal we offer for non Pax entities that want a seat on the council as well.
TLDR: We vote independently on matters of our own future settlements.
Deacon is the lead of Golgotha, his voting council consists of Morbis, Cyneric, and Phyllian.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Now I'm slightly more confused than before that clarification, but I trust all y'alls to make and enforce your own interpretation of the intent of developer requests as regards your own guilds' members.
I've been rather confused myself at times with the number of organizations using the Latin word for 'peace' in their name, not to mention conventions related to a certain webcomic.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A follow on question to that regards federations of guilds where several independent groups pledge to work together in-game. This is a bit of a corner-case but we would rather err on the side of engagement than in disengagement. So we are ok with federated guilds participating in Phase II, with the proviso that anyone who voted for a winning guild in Phase I is still ineligible to participate in Phase II. A "federated guild" is a separate organization of people organized primarily independently of a guild that won Phase I, not just a subset of a winning Phase I guild's members who want to have their own identity and take part in Phase II.
This seems to very directly address the situation Golgotha is in. I don't see any reason they shouldn't pursue their own Settlement in the next phase of the Land Rush.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A follow on question to that regards federations of guilds where several independent groups pledge to work together in-game. This is a bit of a corner-case but we would rather err on the side of engagement than in disengagement. So we are ok with federated guilds participating in Phase II, with the proviso that anyone who voted for a winning guild in Phase I is still ineligible to participate in Phase II. A "federated guild" is a separate organization of people organized primarily independently of a guild that won Phase I, not just a subset of a winning Phase I guild's members who want to have their own identity and take part in Phase II.This seems to very directly address the situation Golgotha is in. I don't see any reason they shouldn't pursue their own Settlement in the next phase of the Land Rush.
Playing Devil's Advocate, I'm not sure I see it that way. Golgotha is now a part of Pax, and its members are a subset of a winning Phase I Guild. Golgotha is no longer primarily independent of Pax or a separate organization.
(Please note, I'm merely trying to understand a grey area of the rules. I believe Pax is entirely acting in good faith in a rules area that is not quite clear)
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Goblin Squad Member
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It sounds to me as if Pax is an out-of-game umbrella of sorts, as if TEO and T7V were both parts of "A Bunch of Nerds LLC" out-of-game. We've got two cities, both belonging to Nerds, they want two cities, both belonging to Pax.
They happen to use the word "Pax" in front of both of their in-game names, while we don't use "Nerds" in front of ours. [Yes, I'm one of those people who feels great that "nerd" is no longer an epithet, and I appreciate that it's highly complimentary in the right circles :-).]
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, with the small detail that Pax and Golgotha are actually all members of the same RL guild where TEO and TSV are not.
I don't care what Pax/Golgotha do...and I'm fine with Golgotha going after their own settlement, but let's be clear that there is a big distinction between the two situations.
GW doesn't have any issues with it and I use that as evidence that it is within the spirit of the law.
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Goblin Squad Member
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and I'm fine with Golgotha going after their own settlement, but let's be clear that there is a big distinction between the two situations.
GW doesn't have any issues with it and I use that as evidence that it is within the spirit of the law.
Why should GW have any issues? Any member of Pax has every right to support any guild/settlement they choose if they didn't support Pax Aeternum before in Guild Rush 1.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Umm...I didn't say that GW did or should have any issues with it.
As I said, Pax has been upfront about it, GW has been good with it, so it it's clearly okay to create multiple LR Settlements from the same RL guild.
Kind of tough on the smaller guilds trying to form, but them's the breaks.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Golgotha didn't start out as a Pax entity, it is instead a culmination of three guilds coming together under one banner. It was the combination of Maelstrom, The Bloody hand, and House Karnath. We brought our own members, and had our own leadership structure before we had even joined the meta organization of Pax. Yes we do also have some members from Pax, but a large majority thus far of our actual membership comes mostly from the above three groups, or applications we have since received from people in the community wishing to join us.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I read it that Golgotha is allied with Pax Aeternum the same way TSV and TEO are allied.If that is the case, then I totally agree that Golgotha is in the free and clear. But I thought that Golgotha was mainly Pax members who want a LE settlement?
Nihimon has the right of it.
GW has contacted us about this issue. I promise everyone we are moving truthfully in our answers and will abide by any solution they wish.
What that solution is I can not say until that discussion is done.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Agree Cyneric. You were a group of people interested in playing PfO together who knew each other before you joined Pax. Then you joined Pax and recruited other members to join you in Pax. Pax then got a settlement and now you guys are going to participate in LR2.
GW has said that is okay and it's good by me. I don't understand the slight tone of defensiveness. I'm just stating the facts in the situation clearly, and confirming that I'm good with it (I'm assuming, of course, that those rules are consistent for the smaller organizations too.)
I hoping to see you guys have an intra-guild war!
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I'd like to apologize for the miscommunication whereby reasonable people inferred that I was accused Pax of breaking the spirit of the rules.
I believe that Pax is, and has been, acting in accordance with the expressed wishes of Goblinworks and following their rules regarding good sportsmanship.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Nihimon, Alexander, and Decius - I'd like to personally thank you gentlemen for the tact in which you've engaged this matter.
Nihimon nailed it. Golgotha and Aeternum allied the same way TEO and TSV did. The only difference is there is no meta-organization to support TEO and TSV, well, there is but I don't know if TSV was planning on joining CotP.
Golgotha's structure and protocol was so similar to Aeternum's it simply didn't make sense for them not to join Pax.
And for the record, not ALL of Golgotha are members of Pax. Some members of the Bloody Hand elected NOT to join Pax, but ARE part of Golgotha. They will be represented as a sponsored charter company within our Empire.
As Charlie pointed out, members of Aeternum have NO say in what goes on in Golgotha.
Just as Nihimon and the Stewards of T7V have no say so in TEO.
They have different chains of command and different leaders.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why should GW have any issues? Any member of Pax has every right to support any guild/settlement they choose if they didn't support Pax Aeternum before in Guild Rush 1.and I'm fine with Golgotha going after their own settlement, but let's be clear that there is a big distinction between the two situations.
GW doesn't have any issues with it and I use that as evidence that it is within the spirit of the law.
The last question we got involves members of a winning Phase I guild who did not vote in the Phase I poll. Technically, these people are free to participate in the Phase II promotion by affiliating themselves with another guild. The temptation to use this exception as a way to create a shadow guild to snag two (or more) spots in the Land Rush will be high, and we strongly urge you not to do so. If you don't plan to play as a member of another guild, we'd ask that you just not participate in Phase II of the land rush. There are so many potential special cases and exceptions within this aspect of the promotion that we can't write a hard & fast rule to cover them all. So we're asking for you to each use your individual discretion and best judgement: If it feels like what you're doing goes against the spirit of the promotion - getting new people interested and excited about Pathfinder Online - we suggest that you opt out of taking part in Phase II.
The Seventh Veil has made it very clear to our members and allies that we intend to fully abide by the spirit of this request. We're still recruiting, and we're making sure our new recruits know that we don't want them to vote for another guild just to help our allies secure a Settlement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The issue is Pax is getting looked at as the guild when its not.
Aeternum is the "Guild" that won Callambea.
If Pax would have been the "Guild" we would have gotten the first pick, we have well over 150 members that have bought into EE. But Pax isn't the Guild. Aeternum is. Golgotha is a different guild. It wasn't conceived in the shadows, we were very public and up front about it being a separate entity from Aeternum.
Golgotha has been getting applications almost daily. How that is NOT bringing new people to Pathfinder Online, I do not know.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The issue is Pax is getting looked at as the guild when its not.
Going by what GW define a "guild" as for their Land Rush promotion, not the commonly understood term. That is, a guild in this case is an independent group or body of groups which is seeking to establish a settlement together.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The issue is Pax is getting looked at as the guild when its not.
I believe part of the issue with third parties watching this play out is that many are unfamiliar with Gaming Communities. If Aeternum and Golgotha are viewed as the same entity simply because their players belong to the same greater gaming community, then as members of Pax, one could misconstrue that our PFO Pax numbers exceed 2,000 members (the total of Pax gaming). However, not only is that not the case, but the majority of Pax Gaming members have no interest in PFO at all. Even in some of the existing games Pax members play (such as SWTOR) we have separate Divisions (our name for "Guild) with totally separate rosters, forums, leadership, etc.
In the very same way as mentioned above, Aeternum and Golgotha are separate in every way within Pax, from membership rosters, Divisional structure, voting, recruitment, forums, forum permissions, and even post tag alerts on the Pax forums to keep discussions about specific divisions and those alerted to them separate - as separate as our other game divisions that play totally different games, yet still reside in Pax Gaming. When the question of a settlement site for Golgotha began, Aeternum's leadership was very clear to its membership that as much as we might give suggestions (just as TEO and T7V closely discussed their settlement location choices with one another), the final decisions about Golgotha were totally Golgotha's choice because they are a separate entity.
I believe the other clouding factor here is that we at Pax have begun nation building at a time when some CCs and proposed settlements are still just forming and announcing their presence. Whereas most players of themepark games tend to think of guilds as separate themed entities where alliances may or may not ever be a factor or even needed, the three current PFO divisions within Pax have been working collaboratively for many months to create a nation level empire. However, as I posted in (this) thread, the empire is not a Pax only entity. We welcome the inclusion of non-Pax CCs and settlements which will each receive equal voting rights, just as each of the three current Pax PFO divisions maintain separate voting rights. We are currently in talks with many non-Pax guilds and other gaming communities...if they join the Empire prior to the Second Landrush, will their votes also be equally denied by association...and moving into the future, will they need to fear similar penalties leveled by the GW management simply because they have chosen to join a larger organization than the typical guild? Having taken to heart Ryan Dancey's advice that the only way to stop large parties bent on "breaking" the game is to create another "Big Town" to counter their efforts, are we who have begun that very process by founding the Xeilian Empire, now to be penalized for fear that we will be "too big"?
Being a community minded player, my greatest concern with this current issue is one of fairness to the paying customer. Golgotha, as it exists today, was not part of Pax during the first Land Rush. As a result, most of the current members did not vote for Aeternum. Some did vote for other now defunct guilds, some of which have been absorbed into Golgotha. All three Division leaders in Pax have made it very clear that if a vote was already cast for Aeternum, regardless of whether that member is no longer in Aeternum, they may not cast a vote for Golgotha in the Second Landrush. However, as customers who have paid for EE acounts, if those who did not vote for Aeternum are now being lumped together with a settlement they are not truly a part of, did not vote for, and did not plan to reside in once settlements are possible, is their legitimate vote not now being denied them - a vote they believed they had paid for by backing the second Kickstarter or purchasing equivalent accounts in the GW Store? As it has been stated, those not voting for the winning three "guilds" are now free to vote for whomever they wish in the Second Landrush. Again, as paying customers who did not vote for the winning three, how can these players' right to vote now be denied in good faith by the company whose game they backed?
Respectfully,
Hobs
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Goblin Squad Member
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As both my DT and my main are in Pax Aeternum I have no say or really any interest in what happens in Golgotha or Fidelis. I did consider having my DT join Golgotha, but I decided being in two guilds was a bit too much for me. I could see me having an alt in Fidelis or Golgotha far into the future if I get bored with Aeternum.