How to clarify if a grappled character must make a grapple check to use a wand


Rules Questions


I have a DM who reads the rules in the Combat section for Grapple, side by side with me.

He reads this part:

PRD,Combat wrote:
If You Are Grappled: If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent's CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler, grappling the other creature (meaning that the other creature cannot freely release the grapple without making a combat maneuver check, while you can). Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that doesn't require two hands to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack or full attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you. See the grappled condition for additional details. If you are pinned, your actions are very limited. See the pinned condition in Conditions for additional details

and thinks that the rules are saying that if my character is Grappled that I have to make a grapple check to attempt to:

Use a wand.
Make an attack with a light weapon.
Attempt to cast a spell, even spells w/o S,V,or M components.
Anything really

Are there any other official rules, rulings, or just a way of presenting this that I can show him to help him understand the meaning of the rules. He is friendly and willing to listen, just confused by another player.

Please help.


We can't make your GM better understand the English language. That requires effort on his part. Just accept his houserule and move on. He's the GM. If you can't get past this problem, find a new GM.


No.

If you are grappled you can:
1) Attempt a grappled check against your opponent to escape or reverse the grapple.
2) Make an escape artist check to escape the grapple.
3) Make a concentration check as detailed in the grappled condition to cast a spell (no grapple roll is needed here).
4) Attack with a one handed weapon at a -2 as detailed in the grappled condition (again no grapple roll is needed).
5) Use a wand, no concentration or grapple check needed, though the spell coming out of the wand might need an attack roll at the -2.
6) Other stuff that uses only 1 hand or less. No grapple check needed.

The only one of all of those that requires a grapple check is the break/reverse the grapple. Basically what it comes down to is that you can try to get out of the grapple, or you can ignore the fact you've been grappled and try to do something else with possible penalties applied.

As to specific rules that show this more plainly, none I'm aware of.


Back in 3.5 you needed a grapple check to do any of that. In Pathfinder you do not.

Perhaps breaking down your bolded sentence will help him:
Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple,
This part means that you can do the following instead of trying to get out of or take control of the grapple.

you can take any action that doesn't require two hands to perform,
This means you can perform ANY action that does not require two hands.

such as cast a spell or make an attack or full attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you.
Provides two examples of what you can do. Breaking down those examples we get:
Attack a creature with a light or one handed weapon.
Cast a spell (note, it will require a difficult concentration check).

Here is a non-comprehensive list of things a creature on the receiving end of a grapple can do:
1) Try to control the grapple (grapple check).
2) Try to break free of the grapple (grapple check or escape artist check)
3) Make a full attack with natural, light, and one-handed weapons. Note: there is a -2 attack penalty. Also note that both people in the grapple have a -4 dexterity penalty.
4) Cast a spell (regardless of components). This requires a potentially difficult concentration check (DC = 10+grappler's CMB+spell level).
5) Use a wand (there is no concentration check here).

The best way to think of Pathfinder grapple is "someone is grabbing my shirt". You can do most things while that is happening.

Now, if you are pinned (a much more severe version of grapple) then you are extremely limited in what you can do. At that point you have:
1) Escape using CMB or escape artist.
2) Perform a Verbal action
3) Perform a purely mental action (such as the Conjuration-Teleportation ability "Shift").
4) Cast a verbal only spell (concentration check DC = 10+grappler's CMB+spell level).

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / How to clarify if a grappled character must make a grapple check to use a wand All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.