Advice on new spell please


Advice


I'm DMing a campaign and one of the players has come up with an idea for new spell that he wants his sorcerer character to create. The spell is a 4th-level version of limited wish which would allow the character to duplicate the effects of a 1st-3rd Sorcerer/Wizard spell or a 1st-2nd non-Sorcerer/Wizard spell. He's suggested calling the spell Greater Prestidigitation on the contention that the cantrip Prestidigitation is in effect a 0-level version of Wish.

I'm in two minds about whether to accept or reject the spell. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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I'd reject it. Limited Wish is a 7th level spell and thus players don't get many of them. Spell duplication is rare and powerful, the ability to ignore preparation and planning because you can just pop out any effect you want whenever you want. It will remove the player from having to buy new spells and plan what to pick up since he can just pop out any spell he wants.

From a thematic approach, limited wish is also a very powerful magic that edits reality to fit in line with the caster's will. It isn't for the weak or untrained, but for powerful casters that have great skill and talent.


Plus prestidigitation is just some minor tricks like laundry not reshaping reality to your whim. If you do go through with it remember that Wish and Limited Wish do have costly material components (unlike prestidigitation.) Though he could get rid of that with Blood Money which would make the Even-More-Limited Limited Wish spell go right back to being broken. So yeah don't allow it.


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I don't like just saying no, and I think the concept has merit, but it would be a bit broken. I would do one of the following:

Make it 1st-2nd Sorc/Wizard & 1st Level Cleric/Oracle

OR

Give it a 250 gp material component cost (plus any material component of the spell being duplicated).


DM Brew wrote:

I'm DMing a campaign and one of the players has come up with an idea for new spell that he wants his sorcerer character to create. The spell is a 4th-level version of limited wish which would allow the character to duplicate the effects of a 1st-3rd Sorcerer/Wizard spell or a 1st-2nd non-Sorcerer/Wizard spell. He's suggested calling the spell Greater Prestidigitation on the contention that the cantrip Prestidigitation is in effect a 0-level version of Wish.

I'm in two minds about whether to accept or reject the spell. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Unacceptable. This spell is strictly better than Shadow Conjuration, another 4th level spell. Nope, nope, nope. Nupe. Nuh uh.

Tell your player he can learn Shadow Conjuration instead, or seriously gimp his version... maybe this:

Limited Limited Wish
4th Level
Duplicate any 1st level Sorceror/Wizard spell, cantrip or orison. A spell duplicated by Limited Limited Wish functions exactly as the intended spell. Saving throws and SR are as the original spell at your current caster level.

-or-

Limited Limited Wish
4th Level
Duplicate any Sorceror/Wizard spell of 2nd level or lower (including cantrips) or any Cleric spell of 1st level or lower (including orisons). Spells so duplicated are 20% as effective as the original version (see Shadow Conjuration for specifics on what that means). Saving throws and SR are as the original spell at your current caster level.

EDIT: Then again, Wish is strictly better than Shades... maybe you could allow it, as long as you make it sufficiently costly. Shadow-type spells have some unique benefits that might justify using them instead of the similar Wish versions in some instances.

If you consider that Limited Wish is a 7th level spell and costs 1,500 to cast, it's a little over 1% of the WBL at the earliest level you can cast it as a Wizard. The same percentage of a 7th level Wizards WBL would be about 250 GP, suggesting that the material component cost could be that. Compared to Shadow Conjuration, which is free, this might be enough to make it acceptable.


Thanks for the advice guys.

I am leaning towards rejecting it, but quoting Dave "I don't like just saying no". I'll speak to the player and see if he can come up with some changes to make it less likely to be easily abused. I certainly think adding a 250 gp cost for components would be a step in the right direction.

Maybe trying to alter reality with such a low level spell could leave the sorcerer fatigued afterwards.


I agree with the don't say no and find a solution mantra also but as a DM sometimes you simply have to say no. Wish is already a crap gimmick carried over from previous versions and I hope it dies in d&d soon.

I didn't see it mentioned so look at Mneomnic Enhancer. Why would you allow something that does the same thing but way better? They've set the bar for power already for that type of thing at 4th level. Also consider this: if you allow him these custom munchkin spells are you going to allow the martials their own custom feats? You're probably going to be opening the door to this if you allow his request.


Is he set on it being a 4th level spell?

Making it a 5th level spell with a costly material component might put the spell back on the map of feasible.

Otherwise this spell is a more broken and abusable version of Paragon Surge shenanigans.


Definitely don't allow. He's doing what players do: Trying to minimize his weaknesses (in this case, a very limited spell list.)

You should do what GMs do: Retain the balance of the game.


UPDATE
Thanks for all the input and advice. I did reject the spell and the player is now considering other ideas for a spell to research.

Liberty's Edge

This should be in homebrew, not advice.

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