Hexcrafter lev 8, planning ahead level 9

[Blackstorm]

So, as for title, I'm planning ahead for the things to take when I'll hit 9. My actual setup:
Elf Hexcrafter 8 (favored class bonus +1/6 arcana every level)
Str 20 - Dex 15 - Con 14 - Int 20 - Wis 11 - Cha 9
Arcana/Hex: Prehensile Hairs, Evil Eye, Flight, Slumber, Arcane Accuracy
Feats: Extra Arcana, Thoughness, Extra Arcane Pool, Rime Spells, Intensify Spells (5th level bonus), Overflanking (DM bonus).

I'm not taking, as now, the enforcer route. I'm still in doubt for that. I'd like some advice on the level 9 arcana and the feat. There are several arcana and hexes that tickle my mind, like cackle, misfortune, fortune, accurate strike, arcane edge, ghost blade.... seems all the good stuffs are really too much. I'm thinking to spend another feat on Extra Arcana. I really like the arcan/hexes admixture thing, but, gosh, too much choice. I'm a bit stuck for that. I'm in doubt even if I should take or not Extra Arcana... Basically, I don't have a clue... I'd like some advice, just to put something on the table to evaluate...

[Rerednaw]

You have many options. What kind of role do you want your character to fulfill?

Most magi I've seen are of the melee-channeling strike variety. Given you went Hexcrafter I'm assuming you want more of a debuffer/buffer role.

So on that note...Misfortune is one of the best debuffers in the game, if you cannot Slumber it.

Another option, if this isn't PFS is to consider the Ability Focus feat to pump up your Hex DC.

[Blackstorm]

Unfortunately, Ability Focus iwas banned from my DM, so it's a no-go. The role? It's a bit strange. Our main damage dealer seems to be the paladin, does a huge amount of damage (we're at the moment in the nine hells, a lot of devils - our DM has taken the FR cosmology for the planes),, and he has a really high to hit value. I can deal a lot of damage (intensify on shocking grasp is really nice, especialli on the critical :P), but lately it seems that rimed frostbite is a huge debuff, that really helps out the party. Sometimes I try to slumber, but our DM has a really unbelievable luck with the d20, so it's not always a reliable option. The thing I don't like of misfortune is the save or nothing, I never liked that. Slumber has it, too, but it's a plus to shot down one or two enemy (our DM rarely set encounters with a single enemy). It's almost forced that if I'll take misfortune, I'll take cackle as well. I could spend the entire combat cackling at the enemy. Maybe I could go with evil eye, cackle, misfortune, cackle, then combat with only the standard action. But really, I'm something like half and half: a bit debuffer, a bit destroyer of BBEG...

[Rerednaw]

Blackstorm wrote:

Unfortunately, Ability Focus iwas banned from my DM, so it's a no-go. The role? It's a bit strange. Our main damage dealer seems to be the paladin, does a huge amount of damage (we're at the moment in the nine hells, a lot of devils - our DM has taken the FR cosmology for the planes),, and he has a really high to hit value. I can deal a lot of damage (intensify on shocking grasp is really nice, especialli on the critical :P), but lately it seems that rimed frostbite is a huge debuff, that really helps out the party. Sometimes I try to slumber, but our DM has a really unbelievable luck with the d20, so it's not always a reliable option. The thing I don't like of misfortune is the save or nothing, I never liked that. Slumber has it, too, but it's a plus to shot down one or two enemy (our DM rarely set encounters with a single enemy). It's almost forced that if I'll take misfortune, I'll take cackle as well. I could spend the entire combat cackling at the enemy. Maybe I could go with evil eye, cackle, misfortune, cackle, then combat with only the standard action. But really, I'm something like half and half: a bit debuffer, a bit destroyer of BBEG...

Wait...Frostbite...against devils? Most devils have very high cold resistance...or outright immunity. Ditto for demons. Surprised it's working.

The argument for Hexes.
1-Neither demons nor devils have immunity to Slumber or Misfortune.
2-Hexes are Su...so you DON'T have to make SR checks...which I'm surprised you are not running into a lot with Shocking Grasp.
3-Su means you don't provoke even when the foe has teleported into your face. Something you do worry about with spell-slinging.

In any case you don't need Cackle with Misfortune.

PRD wrote:

Misfortune (Su): The witch can cause a creature within 30 feet to suffer grave misfortune for 1 round. Anytime the creature makes an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, it must roll twice and take the worse result. A Will save negates this hex. At 8th level and 16th level, the duration of this hex is extended by 1 round. This hex affects all rolls the target must make while it lasts. Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this hex again for 1 day.

So at 8th level you have a decent chance of making that foe roll twice on all his rolls for 2 rounds...saves, attacks...that's huge.

And for the most part, Will is the weakest save.

But enough about that.

One alternative. You are a strength build. If you don't mind swinging (use your sword in both hands) you could go with Power Attack for a feat...and Accurate Strike as an Arcana. 2H Power Attack vs. Touch AC is a nice combo if a bit hard on the pool points.

But you would rather stay back...(though with teleport at-will foes that's relative) and face SR foes then Hexes are the way to go.

Or you could try a polymorph build.
Ingredients
===========
Magus 8th.
Item: Amulet of Mighty Fists+1 (4,000gp)
Arcana:Accurate Strike
Buff Spell: Monstrous Physique form (Gargoyle now, Four-Armed Gargoyle at 10th level)
Combat Spell: Frostbite (Rime Spell if you have Frostbite traited down).
Obviously this would required 1 round to prep (Monstrous Physique). Spell Combat for Frostbite, then on round 2.
Go entirely unarmed.
Swift Action: Accurate Strike
atk: +6(st)+6(bab)+1(amulet)=+13 vs. Touch AC, 4 attacks.
hit: 1d6+6(clawx2)+1(amulet)+1d6+8(frostbite) and 1d4+6(gore/bite)+1(amulet)+1d6+8(frostbite).
Or
2 claws +13 vs. Touch AC. 2d6+15 damage each claw
1 gore +13 vs. Touch AC. 1d4+1d6+15
1 bite +13 vs. Touch AC 1d4+1d6+15.
+fatigue+entangle(Rime Spell)
=2d4+6d6+60 if everything hits. Decent for 1 round full-attack.
Keeps pace with a smiting paladin.
Issues:
4d6+32 of the above damage is cold and non-lethal.
Frostbite needs SR checks.
I don't know if you have or can get an amulet of mighty fists.
DR will severely impact this build.
You are front-lining for a round.

Just throwing it out there.

Other things. You don't have Improved Init or Iron Will yet. They are usually good feats to think about.

Good luck sir!

[Blackstorm]

First of all, I really wish to thank you for advices, all useful.

Rerednaw wrote:

Wait...Frostbite...against devils? Most devils have very high cold resistance...or outright immunity. Ditto for demons. Surprised it's working.

To be precise, for now we're still in carceri, and we face Devils, demons, and daemons, along with a really varies type of monsters, not all so bad. For now I did the work. We faced some devil with cold resistance 10, so I had the ability to deal the damage (I need even 1 single cold damage to fatigue and entangle), so for now we're ok. However I'm thinking even of other strategies.

Quote:

The argument for Hexes.

1-Neither demons nor devils have immunity to Slumber or Misfortune.
2-Hexes are Su...so you DON'T have to make SR checks...which I'm surprised you are not running into a lot with Shocking Grasp.
3-Su means you don't provoke even when the foe has teleported into your face. Something you do worry about with spell-slinging.

Totally agree with you. I ran into SR, but I got enough luck to overcome it most of the time. But I don't know, I feel like that if misfortune fail I'm really got pissed. Slumber doesn't make me this effect. .. Don't ask why, I totally don't know :) maybe I'm a bit biased.

Quote:

In any case you don't need Cackle with Misfortune.

Truth. Didn't think of that. Anyway, I'm feeling that cackle could be useful, specifically if I take fortune hex. That could be a good thing.

I'll think of it. For sure I'd like to take both ghost blade and accurate strike as arcana, but I feel that at least one hex will be useful.

As for the rest of advice, I don't have the amulet of mighty fists, so for now it's not viable. I'm not a really big fan of polymorph (my dm force me to make a knowledge nature check to see if I know a specific monster when I cast for it the first time), but still I'll take care the advice. Unfortunately I have magical lineage on sg, I was really a noob with the hexcrafter when I created it. I have warrior of old that grant me a +2 initiative, so I'm at +4 for now. I tried to ask the dm if I can take wayang spell Hunter, he says me I don't have nothing to share with wayang region... so it's a no go. For the monstrous physique build, it's really good, but for reason I don't know, the dm seems afraid of my build in terms of damage. I'm even in doubt for accurate strike. Our dm tend to give us multiple encounters per day, and I find myself running almost out of arcane pool points in some cases. .. so 2 points per round seems really a big cost.

Just to be clear, I really appreciate your help, but I'm really in confusion, so I think I tend to overthinking the whole thing. .. The fact is that there are really nice arcana and hexes, and I'll never afford them all. ..

[Rerednaw]

Blackstorm wrote:

First of all, I really wish to thank you for advices, all useful.

Rerednaw wrote:

Wait...Frostbite...against devils? Most devils have very high cold resistance...or outright immunity. Ditto for demons. Surprised it's working.

To be precise, for now we're still...<SNIP>

As for the rest of advice, I don't have the amulet of mighty fists, so for now it's not viable. I'm not a really big fan of polymorph (my dm force me to make a knowledge nature check to see if I know a specific monster when I cast for it the first time)...

You are welcome.

Okay it looks like a lot of your choices and options are heavily influenced by the house rules. That makes sense with all the nerfing he's doing. Casters (magi included) tend towards nova-builds so sustained damage is usually obtained via martial means. For your magus, the arcane pool is a very limited resource. (unless you get can your hands on a wyroot club).

Just out of curiosity who else is in your party and do you know their builds? Like what kind of paladin (race/archetype/feats?)

So the GM.
Doesn't allow you to use polymorph effectively.
Doesn't allow you to take a feat to improve your Hex casting.

Why is the GM afraid that as a damage dealer you'll...deal damage? Or as a controller...you'll control? Do the GM pull his punches with his demons or do they all seem to get their full attacks/spells off?

As you already said, the Paladin does more damage already. I don't understand the GM's reasoning against having two characters that can do damage well. I mean, by this level you have a few good rounds of damage before you run out of gas...the Paladin could be smiting all day long, every encounter depending on his build...maybe he's running a lower power campaign? Though with demons/devils...they are on the high end of the power scale, monster-wise.

On a non-feat note: Is there item crafting in the game? Pick up a few extra Pearls of Power to help extend your endurance.

With multiple encounters I would advise against the 1/day magus arcana. Bumping up your pool may be one of your best bets at this point.

Option: a simpler feat that bumps your damage is Arcane Strike. (from Core)
Cons:
Takes your swift action.
Pros:
You can run it all day long.
The ability scales.

PRD wrote:

Arcane Strike (Combat)
You draw upon your arcane power to enhance your weapons with magical energy.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane spells.
Benefit: As a swift action, you can imbue your weapons with a fraction of your power. For 1 round, your weapons deal +1 damage and are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. For every five caster levels you possess, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

It's a pretty decent feat that complements your melee or ranged weapon combat. And it would stack with your Arcane Pool (+3/+3 from Arcane Pool at 9th level, +2 for this feat is +3/+5)

Oh I'd say Fortune is kind of a so-so feat. Unlike Misfortune it only affects a single roll, and you have the declare it beforehand. My witch has it and it's very situational. As a hexcrafter, hex availability is more of a premium for you, so I'd pick up others first...even healing.

[Blackstorm]

Lot of arguments. Let's try to clear all :)

Rerednaw wrote:

Okay it looks like a lot of your choices and options are heavily influenced by the house rules. That makes sense with all the nerfing he's doing.

He's limiting some things. I'm rather ok with that, it's his game, after all.

Quote:

Casters (magi included) tend towards nova-builds so sustained damage is usually obtained via martial means. For your magus, the arcane pool is a very limited resource. (unless you get can your hands on a wyroot club).

I'm trying, but I cannot for now. For sure he'll disallow me the bag of rats trick. Anyway, I'm normally not going nova. I find myself that I'm rarely run out of spells at the end of the day.

Quote:

Just out of curiosity who else is in your party and do you know their builds? Like what kind of paladin (race/archetype/feats?)

Here it is:

Paladin, human w/o archetypes, power attack and furious focus, greatsword, basically a fighter type.
Cleric, with healer archetype, a totally noob player, but he's doing nice. He's really focused on healing, rather good at heal/buff. Dm has allowed the healing sub domains for him.
Oracle of Pharasma, nothing special, but good spells selection. Race samsaran, so some good stuff for her.
Wizard, wood : really high dc for some spells, more focused on control type, but IMHO he don't know how to use non dismissable area spells. He has craft wondrous items.

Quote:

So the GM.
Doesn't allow you to use polymorph effectively.
Doesn't allow you to take a feat to improve your Hex casting.
Why is the GM afraid that as a damage dealer you'll...deal damage? Or as a controller...you'll control? Do the GM pull his punches with his demons or do they all seem to get their full attacks/spells off?
As you already said, the Paladin does more damage already. I don't understand the GM's reasoning against having two characters that can do damage well. I mean, by this level you have a few good rounds of damage before you run out of gas...the Paladin could be smiting all day long, every encounter depending on his build...maybe he's running a lower power campaign? Though with demons/devils...they are on the high end of the power scale, monster-wise.

Hmm. I think he has some issue for the times I deal critical. When I roll to hit I'm not really lucky, so crit don't happen so often to me (even if I go almost always with keen cutlass so 15-20), but when I do, I land really high damage. Back at 4th level I did something like 60 damage on a critical spellstriked shocking grasp to a monster, killing it in the first round. In addition I shutted down a summoner on another encounter with slumber, so I removed both the summoner and his eidolon. I think he's a bit afraid of my versatility. Paladin deal more stable damage, and the wizard is really better than me on spells. Seems he is afraid of don't getting me in much trouble. Even if I don't cast myself shield and mirror image every fight, so he hasn't too much difficulty to hit, in general.

He's not running a low power campaign, but maybe the issue is that his first game as DM, so maybe afraid. ..

Quote:

On a non-feat note: Is there item crafting in the game? Pick up a few extra Pearls of Power to help extend your endurance.

Did already. I'm trying to have really much Pearl of power, I have some and trying to add some more.

Quote:

With multiple encounters I would advise against the 1/day magus arcana. Bumping up your pool may be one of your best bets at this point.

Option: a simpler feat that bumps your damage is Arcane Strike. (from Core)
Cons:
Takes your swift action.
Pros:
You can run it all day long.
The ability scales.

Excellent advices. I'll take them all into account :)

[Rerednaw]

Okay thanks for the info! :)

3 full progression casters (Oracle, Cleric, Wizard)...a melee monster with super saves (Paladin)...and he's worried about a hybrid? Um...okay.

Yes magus can spike. Yes hexcrafter can hex. I'd be far more concerned about the full progression casters getting into 5th+ level spells. Or any number of other tricks they can pull (and you can't).
Wizard

hide:

Swift: Quickened 10d6 Fireball.
Standard: 10d6 Fireball Maximized.
Average damage: 95 in an area. Per round, before saves/resistance/SR. Though if this was an admixture, the fireball is acid/cold/electrical/fire on the fly.

Oh wait throw in a 2000 gp item and a move action.
Move: Goblin drum.
Swift: Quickened 10d6+10 Fireball.
Standard: 10d6+10 Fireball Maximized.
Average damage: 115. Max 140.

Oracle

hide:

Channeling 7d6 with a Will save DC 23 against evil? Not as much damage a fireball true...but this is Su, doesn't provoke and bypasses pesky devil/demon/daemon SR. And he can fire it point-blank and not harm party members. Alternatively he could be channel healing for that amount. Or granting the entire party an effective DR 5 all day long. Or both. Or perhaps he's like an auto-force any target (friendly or enemy)re-roll, as an immediate action.

Cleric

hide:

Let's not forget the humble cleric who could I dunno...bring back the dead? Even better if the party member died from hp damage within one round and 5d8+9 would put him above -con. Then it's only a standard and no 5,000 gp required. Or perhaps the cleric would prefer so simply have undead companions? At 9th level that's maximum 26 HD pets with 52HD total could have in his party?

The above is what I'd compare a magus against.
Back to topic...
So now we know your party.
A character with superior melee ability.
3 characters with superior casting ability.

I'd focus on the one thing they don't have...hexes :) Be sure to pick up Ice Tomb at 12th.

Normally I'd so go for buffer as a backup role...but not with 3 other full casters in the party.
So for now I'd say if I were in your shoes I'd pick one of:
Misfortune (since you already have Evil Eye)
Arcane Strike
Accursed Hex

accursed hex:

Ultimate Magic wrote:

Accursed Hex
You can make a second attempt at failed hexes.
Prerequisite: Hex class feature.
Benefit: When you target a creature with a hex that cannot target the same creature more than once per day, and that creature succeeds at its saving throw against the hex's effect, you can target the creature with the same hex a second time before the end of your next turn. If the second attempt fails, you can make no further attempts to target that creature with the same hex for 1 day.
Normal: You can only target a creature with these hexes once per day.

[Blackstorm]

Thanks for the advice. Just for curiosity, how do the Oracle channel? He don't have channel class feature. She choose the death mystery iirc. For the cleric he's a merciful healer, so really good at cure. ..

Anyway, unluckily I cannot focus as I wish I hexes. Dm doesn't allow me accursed hex because raw I don't have the hex class feature. The same for anything that require the hex feature as requisite. ..